@Rittenhouse said:
I get that CK can get more than a bit over-enthused about post-1964 coinage, but rather than putting he and his favorite coins down, we (and especially younger collectors) should be thanking him and paying attention to the points he's making.
He may be "way early to the party," but 30, 50, and 100 years from now, collectors will be paying what we would consider to be incredible prices for gem 60s, 70s, and 80s clad coins. Those future collectors will be thanking people like CK who had the foresight and desire to put away really nice examples, just as we do today with pr and early 20th century coinage. If everyone in the past had simply thrown up their hands and said that the current coins are dirt common and will never be worth anything, we wouldn't have coins to collect today.
So, instead of putting CK and his fav coins down, we should be asking him to put together a list of the toughest post-64 coinage. I may be too old to get in that game, but others are not and it will be a large part of future collecting.
No one is putting him down. We are questioning his comparison of modern base metal coins produced with modern minting technology versus 18th century early federal coinage. We also question the foundational assumptions underlying the entire analysis. And I by no means am trashing clad coinage. I acknowledged there may be sleepers and being under AARP age, I may very well live to see it. I’ll remember this thread, but I doubt my position will change in 40 years or so.
@wondercoin said:
“but 30, 50, and 100 years from now, collectors will be paying what we would consider to be incredible prices for gem 60s, 70s, and 80s clad coins. “
I AM RIGHT NOW!!
Wondercoin
I take gem to mean MS/PF 65-66 You aim for the finest known so usually MS67-MS70 or PF70.
Personally I don't agree with everything cladking posts. Then again, I don't agree with everything I post. If I tried, I bet I could find 70 threads cladking has posted between here, NGC & Coin Talk. i appreciate all the thought and effort he infuses andread every one. James
Generally MS66 and up. I often find, myself, plenty of coins below that grade in my hunt for the best clad. CK has always been about lower grade Clad. My thing has always been higher grade Clad. Started buying the higher grade Clad aggressively around 1983 so it’s already been 43 years for me waiting for prices of superb gem Clad to explode. lol.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
There won’t be much ordinary silver for the kid filling an album after this spate of dumping.
I wonder how Whitman and Harris figure the quantities of folders they publish. Maybe their production and sales figures over the years could inform us. (Somebody get on that!)
I enjoy CK’s sermons, I understand the thought, I share some of them, but I’ve always thought that our clad hoards won’t be appreciated for a few generations yet.
I sold three-fourths of the silver that I don’t want to have. I put much of the proceeds back into coins, including one clad quarter. The infusion of fresh cash might spur some interest.
@wondercoin said:
“but 30, 50, and 100 years from now, collectors will be paying what we would consider to be incredible prices for gem 60s, 70s, and 80s clad coins. “
I AM RIGHT NOW!!
Wondercoin
You’ll be the first to know once I find that top pop. I didn’t even bother contacting you on that MS 68 Kennedy because I seen you advertising a 68+.
You are one tough customer.
@cladking said:
This means the mintage was around 5 million but only .02% of these were saved.
Based on what?
Based on the simple fact that saving of 1982-P quarters was nearly completely random. It's the common thread because the coins weren't widely sought out. Sure there could be many insiders with access to large numbers and could sift for Gems but the very concept of putting any effort whatsoever into it was absurd. Ya' might as well have been leaking quarters from your ears.
I doubt it happened.
The distribution of the few Gems produced was highly complex but also highly concentrated because so many die pair never struck a Gem. A large percentage of Gems went out on a single pallet or over a short run of pallets. The distributor of any of these pallets would be unlikely to have any interest or knowledge about how to track Gems. Learning required significant effort and time. Again... ...highly improbable. Some individuals would certainly be interested in storing a few bags of something like this but then you're right back to the root problem: there are no Gems in many bags of '82-P quarters and it's unlikely many were looking. In those days a quarter was still just like real money. Three of 'em would get you a silver quarter.
No one had any means to acquire these except through specific intent and then success was still highly random due to the difficulty of obtaining them. There was a very short window on this date. Of course those late in the cycle could put more focus on large quantities. It seems improbable the coins are out there. Anyone saving Gems wouldn't have many left after releasing most of those that fall short except for marking.
I got lucky. Nobody seems to have done the hard work of chasing the Gems by simple study and extensive time. Obviously many collectors saved a nice pristine '82-P quarter for collections and preserved it. A significant number of people simply save a new coin every year and these tend to be higher quality. Perhaps some people even saved runs of them. But they aren't common in slabs from the perspective of strike quality.
Even the best struck 1982-P quarter is slightly deficient in the filling of "LIBERTY". Most are quite deficient. And this is among the Gems. You outghtta see the garbage that doesn't even come close: They are deficient on multiple criteria. Really nice looking well made 1982-P quarters will probably be elusive if every grade but XF/ AU. These were common in circulation until about ten or fifteen years ago they stopped over just a short time. You'll still see a VF once in a while but it will have been beaten to death with an ugly stick- ie- just covered with little scratches and shallow gouges. Even if people started saving these now there just wouldn't be many nice attractive coins even in VF.
This might be the allure of BU rolls; the knowledge that there will much better pieces in it. Probably not many gradable coins unless you're lucky but lots of nice looking coins. chBU just isn't as common as it used tobe and it was never as common as people thought.
Coinscratch- Thank you for keeping me in mind for any great Kennedy MS coins you get in. And, yes, I do have an MS68+ (homemade) specimen, but I wasn’t advertising it. The coin is in my #1 MS Kennedy Registry set. The MS Kennedy Registry set is one set I intended to do 25 years ago. But, shortly after that time, I recommended to my (then) customer Richard Green (RIP) that he consider collecting them when he asked me what I thought a good set to collect might be. RG loved the idea of MS Kennedy 50C and I sold him a great starter set of some of the best Kennedy MS coins at the time.
Richard then “did it right” and built a PCGS registry set that was awarded “Hall of Fame” status. I think the only MS set ever to get that award. He then sold his set. It wasn’t until a few years later that I decided to aggressively pursue the Kennedy MS coins. I “dusted off” my flipped coins I had set aside for a couple decades (and submitted most of them) and was pleased when I got back an MS68+ from PCGS in that particular slot. I finally surpassed RG’s set rating a couple years ago and achieved All-Time set rating status after that. When our esteemed fellow board member, Dr. Brown, consigned for sale virtually every Registry set of his to GC a few years ago, he thoughtfully offered me his “top 5” MS Kennedy set in a private treaty deal. So, my #1 set now also has a handful of very special coins from that superb collection as well.
Due to its sheer size (1965-2025), I think the MS/proof collection of Kennedy Half Dollars (without major varieties) might be the first $1,000,000.00 Clad collection to ever go through public auction down the road. We shall see. But, I say without major varieties as the Ike set with major varieties already has a single coin worth more than 1 million dollars and the Roosie Clad dime set already has a single coin worth over a half-million dollars. Big times ahead for Clad coinage, but the condition rarities and mega absolute rarities should make headline news while the typical coins from rolls should welcome in the next generation or two of coin collectors.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@cameonut2011 said:
That you don’t see them doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. And there are likely thousands or more in rolls, mint sets, or in vaults that people have forgotten about. The demand is not there; thus, there is little reason to search through the extant populations. TPG populations are lower because there is little financial incentive to submit them
In short, apathy contributes to not searching through for gems.
No, that's the way it used to be. In the old days (pre-1975) coins didn't circulate randomly for numerous reasons but chiefly because the mint and FED made no effort to rotate stocks. Nice high grade coins backed up in warehouses or vaults and just waited to be fed back into circulation. Then to compound matters coins were sometimes held as backing for paper or other instruments. Old coins in high grade were common even after many years if a pallet were lost somewhere or tucked into the back of the vault., Wear has been random for half a century now. Attrition has been virtually random as well and it's not pretty for what's left. Yes, there are many thousands of solid Gems already in slabs most of which are slabbed MS-65 or higher but this doesn't mean the coin is common in nice looking condition because for many dates there are very few coins between what is Gem and what is clearly not or in other words a significant percentage of Gems has already been graded even in an otherwise unborn market.
When nice chBU is tough it makes those nicer coins in the roll truly sparkle. And with many dates this is likely to include coins that would grade MS-65. Super Gems are unlikely to ever get into these rolls but if you assemble one today it means a lot of work and as many as three times that number of mint sets because of poor quality and tarnish.
This is mostly just a matter of perspective. If you look at these coins by the perspective of flows, systems, and sentiment they look very different than from the perspective of the mirage we call "moderns". From my perspective I see supplies in the hundreds, dozens, or handfuls and potential demand in the millions as work hours reduce and greater wealth spreads more widely.
I see silver as clad's atlatl. A lot of collectors are making money on their silver collections or hordes. All God's children gotta collect something
@MFeld said:
Congratulations - you’ve posted more than 70 times to this thread. I think most of us are aware of your experiences and opinions on this subject by now.
🤣 I’m not use to seeing the snarky version of MFeld.
I admit to engaging in such behavior, on occasion.
If anyone's the right....
I do remember I called one of your sentences "claptrap" once.
@Rittenhouse said:
I get that CK can get more than a bit over-enthused about post-1964 coinage, but rather than putting he and his favorite coins down, we (and especially younger collectors) should be thanking him and paying attention to the points he's making.
He may be "way early to the party," but 30, 50, and 100 years from now, collectors will be paying what we would consider to be incredible prices for gem 60s, 70s, and 80s clad coins. Those future collectors will be thanking people like CK who had the foresight and desire to put away really nice examples, just as we do today with pr and early 20th century coinage. If everyone in the past had simply thrown up their hands and said that the current coins are dirt common and will never be worth anything, we wouldn't have coins to collect today.
So, instead of putting CK and his fav coins down, we should be asking him to put together a list of the toughest post-64 coinage. I may be too old to get in that game, but others are not and it will be a large part of future collecting.
I mention a lot of coins from time to time.
But just a list of date and mints can be misleading since ultimately what's really unusual in so many moderns is just to see coins that have no distracting problems in any grade (except for ones that are common). It's largely just broad generalities like nice attractive kennedys with no marking on the top of the shield or bicentennial quarters with a good reverse strike. I've always suggested the best way might be to just buy a folder and push the nicest coin you can find in circulation into it. This might still be the best advice but a more relevant response might be to buy an album and put together the nicest coins you can find. I believe what's happening is people who do this are often buying chBU coins from online sellers. They keep such a coin until they find one better. The demand ramping up while the supply never really was that great.
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It might be a public service, but it would be a horrible investment to put away thousands of rolls of BU clad for 50+ years.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It might be a public service, but it would be a horrible investment to put away thousands of rolls of BU clad for 50+ years.
That positively would have been mistake. You should have saved individual issues; specimens of modern coinage.
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It might be a public service, but it would be a horrible investment to put away thousands of rolls of BU clad for 50+ years.
That positively would have been mistake. You should have saved individual issues; specimens of modern coinage.
And people did that and continue to do that. You seem unsatisfied with that.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It might be a public service, but it would be a horrible investment to put away thousands of rolls of BU clad for 50+ years.
Of course if you bought into BU rolls today it may or may not be a mistake. If you bought last year you'd already have some tidy profits. And I'm absolutely not suggesting anyone buy any BU roll today unless you know something is underpriced. It's always a great time to collect but it's always dangerous to speculate because you're far more likely to find what's available rather than what's collectible. Godspeed
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It really is something of a tragedy since we have few reminders of the good things made since 1964. We lowered standards and then still often tripped over the bar.
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It really is something of a tragedy since we have few reminders of the good things made since 1964. We lowered standards and then still often tripped over the bar.
Yes, we "only" have 40,000 of each coin.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I must have about 50 BU rolls of '59 and '59-D Lincolns, which I've had for about 20 years.
What do these rolls go for?
I still have a 1955 Roosevelt BU roll and numerous '59 bu Jefferson rolls which I sent in a few to NGC 15 years ago and I received a 'full steps' designation from them.
I have since learned PCGS is much stricter in the FS designation than NGC.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
@Tom147 said:
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It really is something of a tragedy since we have few reminders of the good things made since 1964. We lowered standards and then still often tripped over the bar.
@DoubleEagle59 said:
I must have about 50 BU rolls of '59 and '59-D Lincolns, which I've had for about 20 years.
What do these rolls go for?
I still have a 1955 Roosevelt BU roll and numerous '59 bu Jefferson rolls which I sent in a few to NGC 15 years ago and I received a 'full steps' designation from them.
I have since learned PCGS is much stricter in the FS designation than NGC.
All these rolls are remarkably common. There are many pre-1965 rolls also increasing but I don't see much interest in these specific dates. The '59 nickels are a little more interesting but nothing I've seen yet.
Of course Gems and varieties are interesting even in the most common dates.
A large percentage of the mintage of the '55 dimes was saved and these coins have survived in larger proportion than other dates because they are considered "key date". They are far more common than almost any of the clad dates before 1984. The date is no longer protected by a premium so is beginning to be melted. Since most are owned by individual collectors it will take years to melt most of them.
@cladking said:
But just a list of date and mints can be misleading...
Not if you post a list with comments. I could easily post a list of Fugio and large cent varieties that are tough to find with choice surfaces and color.
I dumped mine barely too early but found a couple dozen Gems in them as some consolation. They were really nice rolls but you can't save everything forever.
@cladking said:
But just a list of date and mints can be misleading...
Not if you post a list with comments. I could easily post a list of Fugio and large cent varieties that are tough to find with choice surfaces and color.
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
Ultimately what will be in demand is whatever future collectors find desirable. Now they are demanding fully lustrous MS-63 and better. Many people are taking chance on BU rolls which might have multiples of highly desirable coins.
I believe what most sets modern apart from older coins is the utter lack of any attempt at perfection in coins. This means that almost anyone could look at it and think it's ugly. Attractive early clad is quite scarce in any grade. These are coins that are well made and sometimes evenly worn, like coins used to be for years and years after the war. Coins don't really wear now days, they just get beat up layer by layer. They sit for a couple months then it's once more unto the breach where they circulate often for a few weeks.
I think collectors will seek attractive specimens and these can be found everywhere. But many are not common but they don't exist in all ways moderns are found. If I say I believe the '71-D/D dime is vastly underrated (self serving claptrap) then you'd need to know it can't be found in any format except min sets that flow into coin shops. The knowledge is of no value because so few are known (probably). You could waste vast resources scouring pocket change with a very slim chance of finding one.
In top grades there are many that I know exist but have never seen. None of these is common or I'd have found it. Nice attractive well made Gems range from very tough 1: 400 with the '75 Philly Ike to about 8 per hundred for the '72-D quarter. Some dimes are even more common yet in Gem. In some later date mint sets Gem one cent coins can run up to two out of three. Keep in mind there are very few BU rolls and quality on these can be nearly universally abysmal. BU rolls contain a lot of really nice surprises beyond so many rolls being no good. Circulation Gems often look to be obviously not mint set and can have a very nice look. Varieties that show up in rolls are far scarcer than most mint set varieties and a roll can have numerous examples in it. Then there are rarities that show up only in circulation and are rare or unknown in Unc.
Just like large cents it's all about rarity and quality to collectors and we have yet to see what they find rare and desirable. moderns often are almost universally banged up in many instances. I just can't define a market not yet born. Right now I believe they are demanding fully lustrous MS-63. Nobody wants problem coins but the supply and demand is so tiny who's to say if scarcer problem coins come under buying pressure. It's not like MS-60 1969 quarters are common any longer. Few people saved coins but fewer still saved ugly coins. This coin is tough over nice VF. A lot of people would be happy to have an MS-60 in some cases. There may be more above MS-62 than there are nice coins between F and MS-63. I don't know what collectors will find desirable or even if they are starting to collect it.
None of these are likely to be well made Gems as I define them but I have no doubt they are nice attractive coins. That's $4000 per roll. Finding nice gemmy '82-P quarters is very difficult because most look like poorly made roadkill.
As more people are forced to buy mint sets you should see something interesting in very short order; a market with almost no mint sets and no longer a supply for either BU rolls nor for BU singles. First the mint sets evaporate and then everything does. Some of the mint set pricing is getting ahead of the curve. The rest will sell out soon.
@cladking said:
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
So what. I think your massively excessive verbality is why others have become irritated by your posts. Instead of going on a diatribe about source differences, why not just tell folks what's scarce to rare, why it's scarce to rare, what to look for, and recommends on the best place to find truly superior coins? IN other words, stop the verbal diarrhea. Hyperbolic word volume impresses no one, actionable info does.
None of these are likely to be well made Gems as I define them but I have no doubt they are nice attractive coins. That's $4000 per roll. Finding nice gemmy '82-P quarters is very difficult because most look like poorly made roadkill.
How many has Dave actually sold at that price? That’s more than certified MS66s sell for. Dave is also selling fine 1982-P quarters for $1.70. In short, I would not rely on Dave’s prices.
None of these are likely to be well made Gems as I define them but I have no doubt they are nice attractive coins. That's $4000 per roll. Finding nice gemmy '82-P quarters is very difficult because most look like poorly made roadkill.
How many has Dave actually sold at that price? That’s more than certified MS66s sell for. Dave is also selling fine 1982-P quarters for $1.70. In short, I would not rely on Dave’s prices.
Who is Dave?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@cladking said:
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
So what. I think your massively excessive verbality is why others have become irritated by your posts. Instead of going on a diatribe about source differences, why not just tell folks what's scarce to rare, why it's scarce to rare, what to look for, and recommends on the best place to find truly superior coins? IN other words, stop the verbal diarrhea. Hyperbolic word volume impresses no one, actionable info does.
@cladking said:
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
So what. I think your massively excessive verbality is why others have become irritated by your posts. Instead of going on a diatribe about source differences, why not just tell folks what's scarce to rare, why it's scarce to rare, what to look for, and recommends on the best place to find truly superior coins? IN other words, stop the verbal diarrhea. Hyperbolic word volume impresses no one, actionable info does.
.
I am not favorably impressed by this post.
.
Lol. That's a rather "kind" response. Are you unfavorably unimpressed?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Coinscratch said:
And to think I've been throwing my 65/66s in a Coinstar and paying 13%.
Yikes! I never pay the juice. Doesn't anyone in town have a free "Coinstar" (using the term generically)? I actually opened a free checking account at a local bank that I never use just to have access to their free coin machine. I just have to remember to write a check and make a deposit quarterly to keep it free.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Coinscratch said:
And to think I've been throwing my 65/66s in a Coinstar and paying 13%.
Yikes! I never pay the juice. Doesn't anyone in town have a free "Coinstar" (using the term generically)? I actually opened a free checking account at a local bank that I never use just to have access to their free coin machine. I just have to remember to write a check and make a deposit quarterly to keep it free.
Yes, my credit union has a free machine that I should use. Before, when I was searching penny rolls I would take ten boxes at a time and their machine couldn't handle the volume.
Now, that I'm only taking mint set clad I typically only have one or two boxes at a time. So thanks for the reminder...
@cladking said:
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
So what. I think your massively excessive verbality is why others have become irritated by your posts. Instead of going on a diatribe about source differences, why not just tell folks what's scarce to rare, why it's scarce to rare, what to look for, and recommends on the best place to find truly superior coins? IN other words, stop the verbal diarrhea. Hyperbolic word volume impresses no one, actionable info does.
I'd actually prefer people not rush out and try to snatch up the rarities so collectors can't get them. And it's unlikely many would even if they could be individually identified beyond the many I already have identified.
I suppose I could create a list of dates that are almost always well made in high grade slabs and suggest people buy these if my desire were to pump up demand but then this list would have a lot of correlation to dates that are most common. No matter how I attack this people are going to be misled and there's no certainty that I'm right about what collectors are going to demand anyway.
Many moderns are rare and using price guides and the like will point you in their direction.
I actually can tell someone how to get their foot in the door using money instead of knowledge acquired by collecting the coins but it's far too late to just plop down piles of money because the coins are gone. As soon as you begin buying the supply is decimated. Just go out and buy a few hundred thousand 1972 mint sets. Ironically this isn't even a good date! But it hasn't tarnished yet so all you have to do is store it properly and then you can sell it intact later. SMS are often untarnished and somewhat better in terms of the potential for the coins. Add '73 to the list because most of them are OK.
This is the lazy man's way to "riches" if I am seeing this properly.
But it won't work. To get only a few dates will require you pay a 10% premium and by the time they start rolling in pretty good the supply will be gone. A few years ago you might have gotten some in before disturbing the market but now people are making BU rolls which are much more profitable then selling them for a 10% premium.
Most people are simply better advised that these coins are fun to collect in any condition and nice attractive well made coins are often highly elusive. For clad quarters this means coins like the '69 quarter with no chicken scratching and no planchet scratching. These all come from mint sets so you don't need to worry too much about strike as they are "all" well struck but for a 1983-P quarter the problem is principally marking and none come from mint sets. Most strikes are a little weak but many are very weak so stay away from those. This is a better one to throw money at than most moderns but you have a different problem; for all practical purposes the date is only available in slabs and these are often high priced which presents market risk. '82-P quarters are tough in high grade because of very poor quality strikes. If you buy these slabs you have not only market risk but also a risk of redefinition.
Beautiful well made attractive clads and most moderns are what you want if you want to "invest" in these coins but there is no short cut to acquiring them.
A lot of the '80's and '90's mint sets have sleepers in them and are cheap but Gems are more elusive in these dates.
With no market it's impossible to go out and buy the rarities. The market and the rarities will come into focus at the same time and then such lists will become possible. A lot of coins people never even thought about will appear on the list and include coins I can't show even exist and have never seen like a 1966 SMS six step nickel in cameo. There are numerous "impossibilities" out there and it is quite apparent that just finding BU rolls of moderns is difficult enough to cause the current run up.
Many moderns are simply rare in good quality and have always been rare or acquired rarity through attrition. All I can do is tell you what these are and why. 1983-P quarters were never common and they're all scratched up.
I try to keep my words reflective of the reality I see. When describing complex things it can get quite wordy. How about "copper good, silver better, clad best, and ah gold"? Godspeed
_I’m not trying to hide anything—I’m trying to prevent people from stampeding
into a market where supply collapses the moment someone with money starts
buying. Moderns don’t behave like classic coins. Their rarity isn’t in
mintage; it’s in *survival*, *strike quality*, and *source*.
A list of “buy these dates” would mostly correlate with the most common issues,
and it would mislead more people than it would help. The true rarities are
rare because they were never well made to begin with, or because attrition
destroyed almost everything that once existed. That’s why 1983‑P quarters are
scarce in any decent condition, why 1982‑P quarters are almost never well
struck, and why the best 1969 quarters only come from mint sets.
If someone wants to shortcut the learning curve with money, it’s already too
late. The moment you start buying, the supply evaporates. A few years ago you
could quietly accumulate; now even BU rolls are being cracked out because
they’re more profitable than selling mint sets at a premium.
The honest advice is simple: collect what you enjoy, and understand that
beautiful, well‑made moderns are genuinely elusive. The sleepers are still in
the ’80s and ’90s mint sets, but true Gems are thin on the ground. The market
and the rarities will come into focus together—only then will a reliable list
exist.
Until then, the reality is this: many moderns are rare in high quality, and
they’ve always been rare. I’m just describing the mechanics, not hyping the
market._
How many has Dave actually sold at that price? That’s more than certified MS66s sell for. Dave is also selling fine 1982-P quarters for $1.70. In short, I would not rely on Dave’s prices.
They certainly appear to be selling a lot more of this stuff than other with fixed price lists as evidenced by the frequent and significant updates.
Most F '82-P quarters are all scratched up. If his is nice it might be worth $1.70 to a few of his customers.
@MasonG said:
There's an NGC MS65 1982 Washington on eBay right now for sale at $65.00. A PCGS MS65 sold a month ago for $48.00.
Look at the chicken scratching and weak strike by the "L" in "LIBERTY". The only attribute in the 95th %ile is that the die was new and the obverse has little marking. In most every other way it is not very special.
NGC MS65 1982 Washington on eBay right now for sale at $65.00
@cladking said:
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
So what. I think your massively excessive verbality is why others have become irritated by your posts. Instead of going on a diatribe about source differences, why not just tell folks what's scarce to rare, why it's scarce to rare, what to look for, and recommends on the best place to find truly superior coins? IN other words, stop the verbal diarrhea. Hyperbolic word volume impresses no one, actionable info does.
@Morgan White said:
I bought a complete set of 1967, nice BU (not SMS) coins last year.
That's a great set.
I didn't appreciate any of the '65- '67 issues until recently because I always figured SMS were far better quality and easier to locate. But high quality specimens that are clearly not SMS are among the rarities today. Even finding nice chBU '67 quarter rolls is very difficult and of course you still have to deal with the fact that all the coins are likely to be MS-63 or lower.
If I had it to do over I'd do it a lot differently and for one things I'd have done was cherry pick a roll of almost everything every year. I always saved Gems but for many coins there were none so all I got was sure to get was mint set coins. I knew things like '82-P dimes were good but never found Gems so the only ones I have are from sets.
This is a lot of the demand now days. Collections are more focused and might include birth year or anniversary sets. Or perhaps bicentennial or only Denver issues. The proportion of demand from date and mint mark collectors is much lower than it used to be.
@MasonG said:
There's an NGC MS65 1982 Washington on eBay right now for sale at $65.00. A PCGS MS65 sold a month ago for $48.00.
Look at the chicken scratching and weak strike by the "L" in "LIBERTY". The only attribute in the 95th %ile is that the die was new and the obverse has little marking. In most every other way it is not very special.
NGC MS65 1982 Washington on eBay right now for sale at $65.00
Of course something is wrong with it (it's not MS70, after all), I didn't say YOU wouldn't have found fault. In fact, I would expect you to, practically nothing is good enough based on what you post.
@Morgan White said:
I bought a complete set of 1967, nice BU (not SMS) coins last year.
That's a great set.
I didn't appreciate any of the '65- '67 issues until recently because I always figured SMS were far better quality and easier to locate. But high quality specimens that are clearly not SMS are among the rarities today. Even finding nice chBU '67 quarter rolls is very difficult and of course you still have to deal with the fact that all the coins are likely to be MS-63 or lower.
If I had it to do over I'd do it a lot differently and for one things I'd have done was cherry pick a roll of almost everything every year. I always saved Gems but for many coins there were none so all I got was sure to get was mint set coins. I knew things like '82-P dimes were good but never found Gems so the only ones I have are from sets.
This is a lot of the demand now days. Collections are more focused and might include birth year or anniversary sets. Or perhaps bicentennial or only Denver issues. The proportion of demand from date and mint mark collectors is much lower than it used to be.
It's part of my complete (not complete yet) 1967 world circulating coinage set.
How many has Dave actually sold at that price? That’s more than certified MS66s sell for. Dave is also selling fine 1982-P quarters for $1.70. In short, I would not rely on Dave’s prices.
They certainly appear to be selling a lot more of this stuff than other with fixed price lists as evidenced by the frequent and significant updates.
Most F '82-P quarters are all scratched up. If his is nice it might be worth $1.70 to a few of his customers.
Or perhaps he just spent his inventory for the circulated clad coinage.
Comments
No one is putting him down. We are questioning his comparison of modern base metal coins produced with modern minting technology versus 18th century early federal coinage. We also question the foundational assumptions underlying the entire analysis. And I by no means am trashing clad coinage. I acknowledged there may be sleepers and being under AARP age, I may very well live to see it. I’ll remember this thread, but I doubt my position will change in 40 years or so.
“but 30, 50, and 100 years from now, collectors will be paying what we would consider to be incredible prices for gem 60s, 70s, and 80s clad coins. “
I AM RIGHT NOW!!
Wondercoin
I take gem to mean MS/PF 65-66 You aim for the finest known so usually MS67-MS70 or PF70.
Personally I don't agree with everything cladking posts. Then again, I don't agree with everything I post. If I tried, I bet I could find 70 threads cladking has posted between here, NGC & Coin Talk. i appreciate all the thought and effort he infuses andread every one. James
Generally MS66 and up. I often find, myself, plenty of coins below that grade in my hunt for the best clad. CK has always been about lower grade Clad. My thing has always been higher grade Clad. Started buying the higher grade Clad aggressively around 1983 so it’s already been 43 years for me waiting for prices of superb gem Clad to explode. lol.
Wondercoin
I believe I'll never see it in my lifetime but I can agree there will come a time of increased prices for non-silver & gold coins. How much and when ? Nobody knows. I've been buying proof & mint sets for years only to break them apart to fill my Dansco albums. Also top pop or near top pop Post 1964 coins graded by our hosts in the series I focus on. Something for my grandkids to benefit from.
There won’t be much ordinary silver for the kid filling an album after this spate of dumping.
I wonder how Whitman and Harris figure the quantities of folders they publish. Maybe their production and sales figures over the years could inform us. (Somebody get on that!)
I enjoy CK’s sermons, I understand the thought, I share some of them, but I’ve always thought that our clad hoards won’t be appreciated for a few generations yet.
I sold three-fourths of the silver that I don’t want to have. I put much of the proceeds back into coins, including one clad quarter. The infusion of fresh cash might spur some interest.
You’ll be the first to know once I find that top pop. I didn’t even bother contacting you on that MS 68 Kennedy because I seen you advertising a 68+.
You are one tough customer.
Based on the simple fact that saving of 1982-P quarters was nearly completely random. It's the common thread because the coins weren't widely sought out. Sure there could be many insiders with access to large numbers and could sift for Gems but the very concept of putting any effort whatsoever into it was absurd. Ya' might as well have been leaking quarters from your ears.
I doubt it happened.
The distribution of the few Gems produced was highly complex but also highly concentrated because so many die pair never struck a Gem. A large percentage of Gems went out on a single pallet or over a short run of pallets. The distributor of any of these pallets would be unlikely to have any interest or knowledge about how to track Gems. Learning required significant effort and time. Again... ...highly improbable. Some individuals would certainly be interested in storing a few bags of something like this but then you're right back to the root problem: there are no Gems in many bags of '82-P quarters and it's unlikely many were looking. In those days a quarter was still just like real money. Three of 'em would get you a silver quarter.
No one had any means to acquire these except through specific intent and then success was still highly random due to the difficulty of obtaining them. There was a very short window on this date. Of course those late in the cycle could put more focus on large quantities. It seems improbable the coins are out there. Anyone saving Gems wouldn't have many left after releasing most of those that fall short except for marking.
I got lucky. Nobody seems to have done the hard work of chasing the Gems by simple study and extensive time. Obviously many collectors saved a nice pristine '82-P quarter for collections and preserved it. A significant number of people simply save a new coin every year and these tend to be higher quality. Perhaps some people even saved runs of them. But they aren't common in slabs from the perspective of strike quality.
Even the best struck 1982-P quarter is slightly deficient in the filling of "LIBERTY". Most are quite deficient. And this is among the Gems. You outghtta see the garbage that doesn't even come close: They are deficient on multiple criteria. Really nice looking well made 1982-P quarters will probably be elusive if every grade but XF/ AU. These were common in circulation until about ten or fifteen years ago they stopped over just a short time. You'll still see a VF once in a while but it will have been beaten to death with an ugly stick- ie- just covered with little scratches and shallow gouges. Even if people started saving these now there just wouldn't be many nice attractive coins even in VF.
This might be the allure of BU rolls; the knowledge that there will much better pieces in it. Probably not many gradable coins unless you're lucky but lots of nice looking coins. chBU just isn't as common as it used tobe and it was never as common as people thought.
Coinscratch- Thank you for keeping me in mind for any great Kennedy MS coins you get in. And, yes, I do have an MS68+ (homemade) specimen, but I wasn’t advertising it. The coin is in my #1 MS Kennedy Registry set. The MS Kennedy Registry set is one set I intended to do 25 years ago. But, shortly after that time, I recommended to my (then) customer Richard Green (RIP) that he consider collecting them when he asked me what I thought a good set to collect might be. RG loved the idea of MS Kennedy 50C and I sold him a great starter set of some of the best Kennedy MS coins at the time.
Richard then “did it right” and built a PCGS registry set that was awarded “Hall of Fame” status. I think the only MS set ever to get that award. He then sold his set. It wasn’t until a few years later that I decided to aggressively pursue the Kennedy MS coins. I “dusted off” my flipped coins I had set aside for a couple decades (and submitted most of them) and was pleased when I got back an MS68+ from PCGS in that particular slot. I finally surpassed RG’s set rating a couple years ago and achieved All-Time set rating status after that. When our esteemed fellow board member, Dr. Brown, consigned for sale virtually every Registry set of his to GC a few years ago, he thoughtfully offered me his “top 5” MS Kennedy set in a private treaty deal. So, my #1 set now also has a handful of very special coins from that superb collection as well.
Due to its sheer size (1965-2025), I think the MS/proof collection of Kennedy Half Dollars (without major varieties) might be the first $1,000,000.00 Clad collection to ever go through public auction down the road. We shall see. But, I say without major varieties as the Ike set with major varieties already has a single coin worth more than 1 million dollars and the Roosie Clad dime set already has a single coin worth over a half-million dollars. Big times ahead for Clad coinage, but the condition rarities and mega absolute rarities should make headline news while the typical coins from rolls should welcome in the next generation or two of coin collectors.
Wondercoin.
No, that's the way it used to be. In the old days (pre-1975) coins didn't circulate randomly for numerous reasons but chiefly because the mint and FED made no effort to rotate stocks. Nice high grade coins backed up in warehouses or vaults and just waited to be fed back into circulation. Then to compound matters coins were sometimes held as backing for paper or other instruments. Old coins in high grade were common even after many years if a pallet were lost somewhere or tucked into the back of the vault., Wear has been random for half a century now. Attrition has been virtually random as well and it's not pretty for what's left. Yes, there are many thousands of solid Gems already in slabs most of which are slabbed MS-65 or higher but this doesn't mean the coin is common in nice looking condition because for many dates there are very few coins between what is Gem and what is clearly not or in other words a significant percentage of Gems has already been graded even in an otherwise unborn market.
When nice chBU is tough it makes those nicer coins in the roll truly sparkle. And with many dates this is likely to include coins that would grade MS-65. Super Gems are unlikely to ever get into these rolls but if you assemble one today it means a lot of work and as many as three times that number of mint sets because of poor quality and tarnish.
This is mostly just a matter of perspective. If you look at these coins by the perspective of flows, systems, and sentiment they look very different than from the perspective of the mirage we call "moderns". From my perspective I see supplies in the hundreds, dozens, or handfuls and potential demand in the millions as work hours reduce and greater wealth spreads more widely.
I see silver as clad's atlatl. A lot of collectors are making money on their silver collections or hordes. All God's children gotta collect something
If anyone's the right....
I do remember I called one of your sentences "claptrap" once.
Wondercoin - Now that I think about it, true you weren’t advertising the 68+ but rather some of the lesser 68s maybe you mentioned having a 68+.
Regardless, that’s a hell of a collection you have there. I’m excited for what may come to the market this year. Hopefully, we’ll talk soon.
I mention a lot of coins from time to time.
But just a list of date and mints can be misleading since ultimately what's really unusual in so many moderns is just to see coins that have no distracting problems in any grade (except for ones that are common). It's largely just broad generalities like nice attractive kennedys with no marking on the top of the shield or bicentennial quarters with a good reverse strike. I've always suggested the best way might be to just buy a folder and push the nicest coin you can find in circulation into it. This might still be the best advice but a more relevant response might be to buy an album and put together the nicest coins you can find. I believe what's happening is people who do this are often buying chBU coins from online sellers. They keep such a coin until they find one better. The demand ramping up while the supply never really was that great.
I have repeatedly said the same thing. What i don't acknowledge is that this is some kind of tragedy.
COINS ARE MADE FOR COMMERCE.
It might be a public service, but it would be a horrible investment to put away thousands of rolls of BU clad for 50+ years.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
That positively would have been mistake. You should have saved individual issues; specimens of modern coinage.
And people did that and continue to do that. You seem unsatisfied with that.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Of course if you bought into BU rolls today it may or may not be a mistake. If you bought last year you'd already have some tidy profits. And I'm absolutely not suggesting anyone buy any BU roll today unless you know something is underpriced. It's always a great time to collect but it's always dangerous to speculate because you're far more likely to find what's available rather than what's collectible. Godspeed
It really is something of a tragedy since we have few reminders of the good things made since 1964. We lowered standards and then still often tripped over the bar.
Yes, we "only" have 40,000 of each coin.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I must have about 50 BU rolls of '59 and '59-D Lincolns, which I've had for about 20 years.
What do these rolls go for?
I still have a 1955 Roosevelt BU roll and numerous '59 bu Jefferson rolls which I sent in a few to NGC 15 years ago and I received a 'full steps' designation from them.
I have since learned PCGS is much stricter in the FS designation than NGC.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Oh no, There are still millions in circulation.
All these rolls are remarkably common. There are many pre-1965 rolls also increasing but I don't see much interest in these specific dates. The '59 nickels are a little more interesting but nothing I've seen yet.
Of course Gems and varieties are interesting even in the most common dates.
A large percentage of the mintage of the '55 dimes was saved and these coins have survived in larger proportion than other dates because they are considered "key date". They are far more common than almost any of the clad dates before 1984. The date is no longer protected by a premium so is beginning to be melted. Since most are owned by individual collectors it will take years to melt most of them.
Not if you post a list with comments. I could easily post a list of Fugio and large cent varieties that are tough to find with choice surfaces and color.
I dumped mine barely too early but found a couple dozen Gems in them as some consolation. They were really nice rolls but you can't save everything forever.
It even depends on where you're looking. Mint sets are distinct from BU rolls which are distinct from circulation which is virtually distinct from the era most were made and today. You even are probably still more likely to encounter some Gems in some cities as others!
Ultimately what will be in demand is whatever future collectors find desirable. Now they are demanding fully lustrous MS-63 and better. Many people are taking chance on BU rolls which might have multiples of highly desirable coins.
I believe what most sets modern apart from older coins is the utter lack of any attempt at perfection in coins. This means that almost anyone could look at it and think it's ugly. Attractive early clad is quite scarce in any grade. These are coins that are well made and sometimes evenly worn, like coins used to be for years and years after the war. Coins don't really wear now days, they just get beat up layer by layer. They sit for a couple months then it's once more unto the breach where they circulate often for a few weeks.
I think collectors will seek attractive specimens and these can be found everywhere. But many are not common but they don't exist in all ways moderns are found. If I say I believe the '71-D/D dime is vastly underrated (self serving claptrap) then you'd need to know it can't be found in any format except min sets that flow into coin shops. The knowledge is of no value because so few are known (probably). You could waste vast resources scouring pocket change with a very slim chance of finding one.
In top grades there are many that I know exist but have never seen. None of these is common or I'd have found it. Nice attractive well made Gems range from very tough 1: 400 with the '75 Philly Ike to about 8 per hundred for the '72-D quarter. Some dimes are even more common yet in Gem. In some later date mint sets Gem one cent coins can run up to two out of three. Keep in mind there are very few BU rolls and quality on these can be nearly universally abysmal. BU rolls contain a lot of really nice surprises beyond so many rolls being no good. Circulation Gems often look to be obviously not mint set and can have a very nice look. Varieties that show up in rolls are far scarcer than most mint set varieties and a roll can have numerous examples in it. Then there are rarities that show up only in circulation and are rare or unknown in Unc.
Just like large cents it's all about rarity and quality to collectors and we have yet to see what they find rare and desirable. moderns often are almost universally banged up in many instances. I just can't define a market not yet born. Right now I believe they are demanding fully lustrous MS-63. Nobody wants problem coins but the supply and demand is so tiny who's to say if scarcer problem coins come under buying pressure. It's not like MS-60 1969 quarters are common any longer. Few people saved coins but fewer still saved ugly coins. This coin is tough over nice VF. A lot of people would be happy to have an MS-60 in some cases. There may be more above MS-62 than there are nice coins between F and MS-63. I don't know what collectors will find desirable or even if they are starting to collect it.
I'm seeing a great deal of activity daily now in BU singles, BU rolls, and mint sets.
The most interesting today is that Dave's is offering "Gem BU" 1982-P quarters for $100.
https://davescollectiblecoins.com/product-category/quarters-2/washington/page/26/
None of these are likely to be well made Gems as I define them but I have no doubt they are nice attractive coins. That's $4000 per roll. Finding nice gemmy '82-P quarters is very difficult because most look like poorly made roadkill.
As more people are forced to buy mint sets you should see something interesting in very short order; a market with almost no mint sets and no longer a supply for either BU rolls nor for BU singles. First the mint sets evaporate and then everything does. Some of the mint set pricing is getting ahead of the curve. The rest will sell out soon.
So what. I think your massively excessive verbality is why others have become irritated by your posts. Instead of going on a diatribe about source differences, why not just tell folks what's scarce to rare, why it's scarce to rare, what to look for, and recommends on the best place to find truly superior coins? IN other words, stop the verbal diarrhea. Hyperbolic word volume impresses no one, actionable info does.
How many has Dave actually sold at that price? That’s more than certified MS66s sell for. Dave is also selling fine 1982-P quarters for $1.70. In short, I would not rely on Dave’s prices.
Who is Dave?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Dave's not here.
If he managed to sell his pocket change for 4x face, I think he's in a private island.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
There's an NGC MS65 1982 Washington on eBay right now for sale at $65.00. A PCGS MS65 sold a month ago for $48.00.
This is not the thread for facts. Please stick to speculation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
And to think I've been throwing my 65/66s in a Coinstar and paying 13%.
.
I am not favorably impressed by this post.
.
Lol. That's a rather "kind" response. Are you unfavorably unimpressed?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yikes! I never pay the juice. Doesn't anyone in town have a free "Coinstar" (using the term generically)? I actually opened a free checking account at a local bank that I never use just to have access to their free coin machine. I just have to remember to write a check and make a deposit quarterly to keep it free.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Yes, my credit union has a free machine that I should use. Before, when I was searching penny rolls I would take ten boxes at a time and their machine couldn't handle the volume.
Now, that I'm only taking mint set clad I typically only have one or two boxes at a time. So thanks for the reminder...
I'd actually prefer people not rush out and try to snatch up the rarities so collectors can't get them. And it's unlikely many would even if they could be individually identified beyond the many I already have identified.
I suppose I could create a list of dates that are almost always well made in high grade slabs and suggest people buy these if my desire were to pump up demand but then this list would have a lot of correlation to dates that are most common. No matter how I attack this people are going to be misled and there's no certainty that I'm right about what collectors are going to demand anyway.
Many moderns are rare and using price guides and the like will point you in their direction.
I actually can tell someone how to get their foot in the door using money instead of knowledge acquired by collecting the coins but it's far too late to just plop down piles of money because the coins are gone. As soon as you begin buying the supply is decimated. Just go out and buy a few hundred thousand 1972 mint sets. Ironically this isn't even a good date! But it hasn't tarnished yet so all you have to do is store it properly and then you can sell it intact later. SMS are often untarnished and somewhat better in terms of the potential for the coins. Add '73 to the list because most of them are OK.
This is the lazy man's way to "riches" if I am seeing this properly.
But it won't work. To get only a few dates will require you pay a 10% premium and by the time they start rolling in pretty good the supply will be gone. A few years ago you might have gotten some in before disturbing the market but now people are making BU rolls which are much more profitable then selling them for a 10% premium.
Most people are simply better advised that these coins are fun to collect in any condition and nice attractive well made coins are often highly elusive. For clad quarters this means coins like the '69 quarter with no chicken scratching and no planchet scratching. These all come from mint sets so you don't need to worry too much about strike as they are "all" well struck but for a 1983-P quarter the problem is principally marking and none come from mint sets. Most strikes are a little weak but many are very weak so stay away from those. This is a better one to throw money at than most moderns but you have a different problem; for all practical purposes the date is only available in slabs and these are often high priced which presents market risk. '82-P quarters are tough in high grade because of very poor quality strikes. If you buy these slabs you have not only market risk but also a risk of redefinition.
Beautiful well made attractive clads and most moderns are what you want if you want to "invest" in these coins but there is no short cut to acquiring them.
A lot of the '80's and '90's mint sets have sleepers in them and are cheap but Gems are more elusive in these dates.
With no market it's impossible to go out and buy the rarities. The market and the rarities will come into focus at the same time and then such lists will become possible. A lot of coins people never even thought about will appear on the list and include coins I can't show even exist and have never seen like a 1966 SMS six step nickel in cameo. There are numerous "impossibilities" out there and it is quite apparent that just finding BU rolls of moderns is difficult enough to cause the current run up.
Many moderns are simply rare in good quality and have always been rare or acquired rarity through attrition. All I can do is tell you what these are and why. 1983-P quarters were never common and they're all scratched up.
I try to keep my words reflective of the reality I see. When describing complex things it can get quite wordy. How about "copper good, silver better, clad best, and ah gold"? Godspeed
OK, I Iet my AI address your questions;
_I’m not trying to hide anything—I’m trying to prevent people from stampeding
into a market where supply collapses the moment someone with money starts
buying. Moderns don’t behave like classic coins. Their rarity isn’t in
mintage; it’s in *survival*, *strike quality*, and *source*.
A list of “buy these dates” would mostly correlate with the most common issues,
and it would mislead more people than it would help. The true rarities are
rare because they were never well made to begin with, or because attrition
destroyed almost everything that once existed. That’s why 1983‑P quarters are
scarce in any decent condition, why 1982‑P quarters are almost never well
struck, and why the best 1969 quarters only come from mint sets.
If someone wants to shortcut the learning curve with money, it’s already too
late. The moment you start buying, the supply evaporates. A few years ago you
could quietly accumulate; now even BU rolls are being cracked out because
they’re more profitable than selling mint sets at a premium.
The honest advice is simple: collect what you enjoy, and understand that
beautiful, well‑made moderns are genuinely elusive. The sleepers are still in
the ’80s and ’90s mint sets, but true Gems are thin on the ground. The market
and the rarities will come into focus together—only then will a reliable list
exist.
Until then, the reality is this: many moderns are rare in high quality, and
they’ve always been rare. I’m just describing the mechanics, not hyping the
market._
They certainly appear to be selling a lot more of this stuff than other with fixed price lists as evidenced by the frequent and significant updates.
Most F '82-P quarters are all scratched up. If his is nice it might be worth $1.70 to a few of his customers.
Look at the chicken scratching and weak strike by the "L" in "LIBERTY". The only attribute in the 95th %ile is that the die was new and the obverse has little marking. In most every other way it is not very special.
NGC MS65 1982 Washington on eBay right now for sale at $65.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/198018305056?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&google_free_listing_action=view_item
I bought a complete set of 1967, nice BU (not SMS) coins last year.
It's Diatrihea
That's a great set.
I didn't appreciate any of the '65- '67 issues until recently because I always figured SMS were far better quality and easier to locate. But high quality specimens that are clearly not SMS are among the rarities today. Even finding nice chBU '67 quarter rolls is very difficult and of course you still have to deal with the fact that all the coins are likely to be MS-63 or lower.
If I had it to do over I'd do it a lot differently and for one things I'd have done was cherry pick a roll of almost everything every year. I always saved Gems but for many coins there were none so all I got was sure to get was mint set coins. I knew things like '82-P dimes were good but never found Gems so the only ones I have are from sets.
This is a lot of the demand now days. Collections are more focused and might include birth year or anniversary sets. Or perhaps bicentennial or only Denver issues. The proportion of demand from date and mint mark collectors is much lower than it used to be.
Of course something is wrong with it (it's not MS70, after all), I didn't say YOU wouldn't have found fault. In fact, I would expect you to, practically nothing is good enough based on what you post.
It's part of my complete (not complete yet) 1967 world circulating coinage set.
Or perhaps he just spent his inventory for the circulated clad coinage.