If you have a PCGS coin you know is under-graded, what do you do?
ChrisH821
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A "no question about it, this should be at least a point higher" scenario. Assuming all options below are financially viable. We're not talking a common MS65 Merc that should be 66.
Collector, occasional seller
If you have a PCGS coin you know is under-graded, what do you do?
This is a private poll: no-one will see what you voted for.
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I’ll go with crack and resub because regrade/reconsideration come with extra bias and potential extra costs. CAC is a decent back up option but if it doesn’t gold, the benefit isn’t the same as a one point bump. Now there is a risk that you missed something and end up losing a point or getting a details slab. That will be a risk worth taking if you’re confident in the coin.
Edit: I’m discounting the mechanical error option for a 1-2 point difference since the tpg will almost certainly say that is not an obvious mistake. Now if you’re talking about an MS 66 with a Good 6 grade (which I recall seeing once), then the mechanical error option would work.
Crack out is the only way to go. It’s best to start with a clean slate.
If an older holder, get it beaned and put it away.
Other: I'd sell and buy the grade I want.
bob
I keep the coin as is, I might consider options when I'm ready to sell but there is no need to do anything. Also, in my experience the vast majority of people that think they have a lock upgrade are wrong.
My Collection of Old Holders
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Picture?
I didn't want to add another post to this thread but I believe this coin is undergraded by 1 point and if dipped it may also be dmpl. The mirrors are there.
If I were to do anything I would dip and resubmit.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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Put it on eBay as a major error one of a kind! Hyperbolic description saying at LEAST 2 points undergraded guaranteed!!! A steal at a low BIN of $One Hundred Kazillion Billion dollars! NO RETURNS!!!
How do you “know” it’s under graded and by how much?
And what’s the difference in value between the current grade and the one you feel is “right”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Since Ive never did a crackout, reconsidersideration or CAC submission, I keep it. Keep the under-graded holders and sell the over-graded holders.
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Depends on the value as well as your confidence in your grade. I like CAC to cover the broadest value spectrum. If no gold on a more valuable coin, a bean might at least give you confidence to try a raw submission and the cost is not material - with no risk. On a less valuable coin, it’s clearly your best bet. A win with a gold and knowledge at less cost/risk with a green.
Take notes of your grading observations. You might consider showing the coin to others whom you trust to obtain other unbiased thoughts as to the grade. Grade opinions can change over time. Unless you are planning to sell the coin, I am not seeing the need to rush and do something prematurely. Live with the coin for awhile- compare it to others if possible just to appreciate the subtle differences and determine how your coin stacks up with the surviving population.
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BTW for most coins it really doesn’t matter.
The question is about any hypothetical coin that anyone might have, but I do have a particular coin in mind while making this poll.
The reason I "know" it is under-graded is I have handled quite a few of this type, I have others in higher grades that this one is as good or better than. There was also another of the same coin, in the same submission, that graded the same, and is noticeably "not as nice". Part of me suspects a data entry/label creation mistake, the certs are sequential.
The PCGS price guide difference between this grade and the next grade is about $2000. This would not be the first time I had to have a coin regraded that was pretty obviously under-graded the first time around. This also isn't a coin I plan on selling, at least not any time soon.
Collector, occasional seller
Stick it in my bank box with the rest of my "under-graded" coins
This has happened to me several times. One of the coins per Chris's last post above, I have handled quite a few of these coins. Both coins were reviewed by a well known professional in the business who sees more coins than most and has a former PCGS grader on staff.
The first coin is worth an additional $5K in MS 67 versus MS 66. Part of the problem is that the powers that be just don't seem to want 7s to be made. The second one is worth between an additional $2K and $3K in MS 65 versus MS 64. A well known crack out guy wanted to buy the second coin from me.
They're just sitting in my safe deposit box.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Depending on the coin, if it's good enough for a gold CAC you can add crazy value over and above the bump to the next grade. Best to just show us.
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I'll have to get my photo setup back up and running. The trueviews aren't comparable because they were taken with much different lighting on each coin. I do not know why they did this.
It will be a separate thread, I don't want this one to be concerned with a specific coin, but any coin that is "valuable enough" to justify the effort and extra investment.
Collector, occasional seller
I typically advise folks to follow the course of least invasive treatment first, which in this case would be to ship to CAC for their opinion. Cracking coins out of holders is a one-way street.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Thank you.
If I were in your shoes (or for that matter, in my own), first I’d get a second opinion from a knowledgeable acquaintance to make sure I hadn’t missed something. If that person agreed with me, if I thought the coin had a chance for a gold sticker at CAC, I’d try for that. If I didn’t think it had a chance or tried and failed at CAC, I’d likely crack the coin out and submit it to CACG or PCGS.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Consider whether it is worth the trouble and expense.
Smile and be happy with your good fortune.
I voted “other” because I prefer my coins to be undergraded much more than when they are maxed out. I pay extra for these kind of coins that look like they should be in a higher grade holder, but I don’t try to resubmit them or sticker them if they are for my long term collection. I’d most likely think differently if I was actively selling them except if it was someone I knew and they wanted it for their collection.
Mr_Spud
Very much agree with Mr_Spud post. Try to buy strongest coin possible. My price range does not usually see huge price shifts anyway. prefer to let coin speak for itself. James
Grading is subjective. All you have to agree upon is the price.
I think I've done all of them
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Chris, if you'd be willing to send me a PM of any images you have of this coin you mention I'd be greatly appreciative.
Good luck, and let us know what you decide!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I voted other.
I usually laugh, shake my head and start it at $.99 in a five day eBay auction.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I just keep it and enjoy it as-is, I like my coins to be solid for the grade.
I like the older holders anyway
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Just to bring this full circle...
The coin in question here was a 1950 Proof half in PR66+, there were a couple of spots of "something" on the reverse that came off with a soak in acetone. Upon resubmission it graded PR67+ (pop 90/3). Was the removal of the surface contamination the reason for upgrade? Maybe, but we'll never know for sure.
Before:
After:
Collector, occasional seller
I love reading true stories about collectors maximizing value of their collections! Congratulations for using your knowledge to do just that! You can’t beat a five-fold increase in value!
Enjoy!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Thanks Steve! The coin was definitely all there plus some, I didn't think the little spots on the reverse were distracting but maybe the graders thought differently. This will eventually make the trip to CAC where I am confident it will be approved.
Collector, occasional seller
That is the thing to do. Now all my coins will have a gold cac!
Ha!
The following is true! When I browse the Bourse, occasionally there's a dealer or two with lower priced coins, and they use Green Stickers to mark prices. I stop, and say, "I was told by a friend to look for coins with green stickers. Are these coins what they meant?"
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Whatever maximizes value.
Dipping the coin is out of my circle of competence.
Probably going the bean route, then regrade if that fails.
TPG makes it tougher when that extra point means a serious bump in value.
Is it a key or semi key date?
Does it disrupt some scarce holy grail top pop?
A generic date 1886p Morgan might have more collectors with a bean, than a simple bump in grade. Then there is the age of holder.
Alot of words to say it depends.
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I’m not convinced the TPG’s make it tougher to give an upgrade when that would provide a serious bump in value. I’ve had several (admittedly not a lot) of whole grade four figure coins get a plus added on via Reconsideration that caused a doubling or more in price guide value. My sense is this has happened with me maybe five to ten times. My first example was an 1858 Large Letters Flying Eagle Cent that went from a MS66 to a 66+. It didn’t seem to hurt that the coin was gorgeous, and merited both a CAC sticker and Rick Snow’s Eagle Eye Photo Seal.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I voted to crack and resubmit, BUT....owners of coins tend to grade their own coins one point higher!