Hagglers at Shows
Cougar1978
Posts: 9,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
As a buyer at shows do you haggle with dealers?
As a dealer - how do you handle hagglers?
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Cougar1978
Posts: 9,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Yes to the first.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Honestly, for me it all depends on the coin, the asking price, and the dealer.
I’m not afraid to negotiate but I also have a lot of respect for the vast majority of dealers I work with. If their asking price is fair I won’t try to beat them up over a few bucks. I love coins and they are offering a product I find desirable. They deserve to make money.
As strictly a buyer, I don't haggle. On higher priced items, I make an offer; take it or leave it. On lower priced items, I ask what's the best they can do. I have yet to refuse their best or else I wouldn't ask. I appreciate the sellers that tell me their best is as marked. Direct and to the point....
USAF veteran 1984-2005
That brings to mind some other questions:
As a seller at shows, do dealers (and/or collectors) haggle with you?
As a collector, how do you handle hagglers?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To me, haggle has a negative connotation to it. We are happy to listen to fair offers on coins that we bring to shows. Or if you want to ask for our best price, we'll let you know what we can do on the piece. The haggling starts when it's clear what we are willing to sell the coin for, and you continue to try and buy it cheaper.
Reminds me of when I was set up at an NYINC show many years ago. A guy came by asking about a world coin in our showcase. He asked for the best price, and I provided it. He then proceeded to try and buy it cheaper. I thanked him for his interest, but said that I was firm. I kid you not, this dude came by four more times trying to buy it cheaper. On his fifth visit to the table about the coin, I raised it $50 (it was an $1800 coin if I recall correctly). That blew his mind.
Chris
p.s. We ended up doing business, as he paid my original best price. It was an aggravating experience and I would have been content to go back home with the coin.
I avoid dealers that have "keystone" markups since they are oriented to screwing buyers and are rude in nature.
As a collector seeking to buy, I don't see my interaction with a dealer as a "haggle', but as a negotiation where a mutual advantage is obtained. This is not a continual back and forth effort. I then think about their price and make a decision.
As a collector seeking to sell, I generally determine what my best price is and then offer it on a "pass or play" basis. I am not seeking to maximize my return since I've decided to sell the coin to turn it into other coin pursuits for my collection. I look at comps to determine what value I assign to the coin I wish to sell and then can provide the context of why I priced it the way I did should it be necessary to encourage a dealer to buy the coin. Of course, what is unknown is what the dealer needs for margin to resell. As such this is a consideration in pricing beforehand. The pass or play approach might not result in a sale and I need to be okay with this (or hold for awhile and rethink my valuation).
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I saw one of my dealer friends at a FUN show ban two young hucksters with iPads from his table, after relentlessly chiseling him on a nice slabbed foreign gold coin. They had “data” indicating it was worth lower than his cost, and that’s what he should sell it to them for. He took it out of their hands and made them leave.
Doesn't that desire to negotiate force dealers to start with "keystone markups" because they know you are going to ask for a discount.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
No.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I've experienced a bit of that when offering coins in our tiny E-bay store.
"I'm interested in your 1862-S coin...(listed for $10,000) what is your best price" , reads the PM.
"Considering my cost of selling. I have very little room says I. WTS, I will give $250 off"
"I understand" reads the follow up PM from a potential buyer. Would you take $8500 and I'll pay now?".
Ever feel like you're negotiating against yourself? Only consolation is that with E-Bay it's a quick trip home if I fail to sell the coin.
It depends...
I'll typically ask a dealer what they want for a coin, if we're too far apart I will thank them and hand the coin back. If I'm still interested but they are a little high I'll ask if they have any wiggle room on it. If I like the quoted price I'll just buy it for that.
I won't do more than a single back and forth.
Collector, occasional seller
I had a similar experience at a show about 20 years ago.
A well know dealer asked for my "best price" on a coin, at which time, I quoted my best price.
He countered.
I passed.
He left the table.
And came back the next day, with a counter.
I passed.
He came back a day after that and countered again.
I - by now, you probably guessed it - passed.
And then, I said something along the lines of "You asked for my best price and when someone asks for my best price, I give them my best price."
He then bought the coin at my originally quoted price.
Admittedly, there is a problem with making your "best offer" as a buyer on quoting your "best price" as a seller - many people don't really mean it when they use those expressions. So unless the other party knows you reasonably well, he probably won't take you seriously and will counter, anyway. Then, it's up to you to back up your words (or not).
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm pretty stubborn when I'm selling. Lots of tire kickers and low ballers on ebay, you have to roll with the punches.
When buying usually I ask for the best price and consider that firm. "Ricardo" a local flea market vendor likes to haggle a lot. I saw him in "Pawn Stars" style action with a lot of back and forth at a local shop "worldcoinandcurrencyllc" a sharp dealer and cataloguer. It looked like the dealer seller was ok with the lower offers and "made a deal" the great American way.
Shows I am doing for cash flow. So I may come down to move an item. Beyond that highly unlikely (Bull Market).
On the bourse (purchases) seek out this wholesaler or the bourse chairman for stuff as he has good deals. A walkup seller to my table I may just offer bid or 10-15 pct back if something of interest. I will haggle with the vest pocket trader guy. Dealers may haggle with me and many times we arrived at a deal others just were not at a deal that would work for me like this one low ball guy.
Considering gold and silver in bull market that can impact purchasing / sell decisions.
I haven't, yet, and unlikely to do so. I haven't bought very many coins in person and only once a "must have". I'm not going to haggle on a coin I want really badly but these aren't coins that can just be bought anywhere or at any time. The relatively few coins I bought at shows which were not "must haves", the dealer just applied an unspecified markdown off the flip price and I paid it.
I've bought six coins from one dealer member of this forum whom you all know, off their website. I did ask for his best price and that was it, I paid it. I wanted those coins really badly too and still have all six.
I only haggle when I'm short a few dollars in my wallet for a coin I want. I do remember one client from my days with the LCS trying to haggle to the point of exhaustion, he asked me once more if I could go any lower, and I said I could go higher. Ended up not selling that day.
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As a buyer, I just say ‘Nice coin. What do you need for this one?’
I’ve never had a dealer refuse to knock off a little, sometimes a lot. They want to move coins!
Dave
When folks lowball me like that, I courteously as possible say no and move on. Some of these folks just don’t have a clue. Really cool coins cost, dealer margins are typically as low as 10% on cool coins. My experience with lowballers is they are trying to get a score. I have had people say - hey I have been looking at that coin for some time, will you take XXX for it (30% less than my ask). First reaction is WTF who are they kidding, then I try to be nice with a no………………..
My favorite is when they do it for an AUCTION.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Psychology of the "sale"
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
If I am interested in an item, I always ask the dealer for their price, whether it is marked with a price or not. If the price matches what I am willing to pay then I pay it. If I see the price as too high but not crazy high, I will say the best I could do is $x. If the dealer accepts, cool, I pay. If I view the dealer’s price as crazy high, I thank them for their time, hand the item back to the dealer if the dealer isn’t already holding it, and walk away.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I had one like that earlier this week on eBay. The coin is priced $65 and contains a little over 1 oz. of silver and I get a message: "I would offer $25 for your coin."
I responded with: "Thanks for your interest but the current value of the silver in the coin is approx. $55, so I'll decline your offer."
I received this reply: "Would you take $30?"
Good. Props to the dealer. If you don't agree with the price then leave --- don't bug them further.
Proud follower of Christ!
I always negotiate, as I wouldn’t be acting in my own best interest, if I didn’t do my due diligence in attempting to get the best possible price. However, if the dealer told me that was his best price and wouldn’t go any lower after one more subsequent attempt, then I wouldn’t pursue it any further and would simply decide whether to pass or play. End of story.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
This is why I love auctions. I get to "haggle" all I want without feeling guilty.
I’m with @keyman64 . If I like a coin after looking at it I’ll ask the dealer how much is the coin. If it’s priced crazy high I’ll politely thank the dealer and move on. Nine out of ten times the dealer doesn’t engage me in conversation.
I was helping a dealer buddy of mine at a show and I brought along a few of my things to sell. A person asked to see a coin and I told that it was mine. He asked for my best price. After I gave it he then proceeded to look at whatever info was on his phone practically begging for the coin at his price. After a while I was starting to get a bit annoyed with his antics and he asked me one more time. I now quoted him $200 over my original price and told him this was the “best price” for me. He got the hint and left.
I will ask the dealer the best price and buy it if I like it and levae if I don't.
Never hurts to ask. My best buys typically come when picking up 5-10 coins from the same dealer. I usually get a sweet 10 - 20% off for the lot.
The "best price" question may not be the best tactic. At a pawn shop recently I asked about an item and asked whether he'd take $200 for it. He had it in the case for $450. Many of these places have slow days where a bunch of hungry guys are sitting around twiddling their thumbs hoping for customers. The pawn shop manager said something about a dealer price being $325. I came back a couple days later and he was willing to take that in cash. The only real difference with cash is they're supposed to charge tax unless you have a resale number or with the credit cards it costs them 3% plus more.
Spot on, Mark.
I ask for their best price. If they don't come down, I go from there if I think it's viable.
If the price is so high that it's in "outer space," I say "Thank you" and move on. If you are far apart, it's no use bothering.
Of course many years ago a guy quoted me a high price. He came back with "What will you pay?" I offered him half of what he quoted and he accepted it.
When I was a dealer, I marked pieces a litttle high because I knew I was usually expected to come down some. It part of the game.
I had one regular customer at shows who always wanted a 20 pct discount. So I would factor that in when quoting a price.
Due to changing mkt conditions don’t put a price on them but have cost and MV on sticker on back of holder / slab in code. Gives me flexibility.
I simply ask - what’s your best price. With a fair idea of “reasonable “ I accept or decline. Having talked to many dealers, they gage customers well and deal accordingly.
I have asked a dealer what's his best price, then offered a little less and he accepted.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Same here
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Now that's class and the way you're supposed to handle it.
I couldn't imagine haggling for a coin much less anything else.
If the dealer is paying attention he sees this guy before he gets to the table and has already decided to keep his prices firm.
In my time of doing this, I’ve made a generalized observation. When I lead with “I’d like to make a serious cash offer of $” if it is 10% back of their ask, my offer gets accepted most of the time. If I offer 20% back I can sometimes buy it at that. Any more than 20% and you run the risk of getting “shuttered” and it may not ever open again.
That's why my blocked list keeps growing.
I also had one who ON AN AUCTION messaged me to tell me that they were no bids after 2 days and he'd like to offer 50% of the opening bid. [He'd pay immediately!]
And then there was the person who told me that it "wasn't a real auction" because I didn't start it at 99 cents. [I started it at melt. ]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The one dealer I buy 99% of my coins from is a PCGS authorized dealer and his inventory consists of mainly those coins. Quite a few carry a green bean too. This guy has nice material and I know ahead of time now that quality coins aren’t cheap. For some reason he believes I have the uncanny ability to pick out his newly acquired coins. Anyway, I will pick one of the coins, we will both look at the PCGS and or CAC price guides, he will state a price, and we negotiate from there. Usually we are both satisfied. If too high a price, I’ll move on to a new coin. His prices are usually within 10-15% of price guide, so I’m ok with that. Zack.
There is a fine line between negotiating and haggling.
Consider the following:
Is the coin really worth crossing the line from a simple best price exchange to haggling with a dealer whom you may choose to buy from again... and again?
Consider the coin and how available it is at that grade level and whether it is quality for the grade. Some coins simply do not have much of a spread. So if the coin is readily available and the coin is marginal, is it really worth the potential downside in haggling based on how that may negatively impact your standing with that dealer over the long term?
My point is simple- not every coin you buy should involve haggling.
Sometimes bundling coins whether buying or selling can bridge the gap over the difference in valuation of a single coin.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Reading this thread really makes me miss my dad. I don't think he ever paid full price for anything. Usually took him all of 10 minutes to have the other person begging him to take less money. i guess it is a lost art in this electronic age. james
Not about coins but true story. When I wanted to buy my house a hatchet faced woman named Alice owned it. She was hard set on $35,000. I couldn't afford near that much. I asked a family living there at the time if they were trying to buy it. The man laughed and called her a bunch of names. he also said he'd watched 3 or 4 people get shot down offereing even 5% to 10% less. So I called in my dad.
I am a very blunt person. i pretty much say what I mean and have zero negotiating skills. my dad is a whole different matter. I do know they first started out talking about how useless children turn out to be. You expect them to take care of you in your old age but it never turns out that way. I know they spent 5 minutes talking about a small laundry room her dead husband added.
We were standing in the livingroom when she asked him if he thought we could swing $17,000. He said we also needed a few things like appliances so $16,000 might be better. In the end we bought the house with appliances & air conditioners for $17,100. To this day i don't know how that really happened. james
If I want the coin I pay the price no haggle, but I try and know the general value of the coin before and after I examine it.
If i'm buying a collection, Ill make a an offer but listen to the seller and make adjustments if necessary..
I don't ask for a price unless I already have a good idea of it's value. No need to waste the dealers time unless I'm ready to buy. I don't haggle. It's a yes or no in a polite way.