Counterstruck Large Cent...
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lkenefic
Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭✭✭
... cleaned, holed, and counterstruck. What am I missing?
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
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Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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The is a segment of the hobby who collect counterstamped cents and other coins. This area goes beyond my area of expertise, but perhaps this one is something special.
It’s lost on me.
I checked the description to see if it had a Q. David Bowers pedigree (he had a great collection of these), but didn’t see that going for it.
Maybe they’re becoming like chop marked trade dollars. Once viewed as damaged and deeply discounted, they seem to highly collectible now.
It's probably a silversmith's mark.
In any case, the value of desirable counterstamps has increased dramatically in the past few years.
Seriously... I used to watch these go for $10 - $12 max.
I saw somewhere that a guidebook exists for counterstruck pieces. I'll see if I can find it...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Maurice ( Maury ) Gould wrote an illustrated soft cover pamphlet on American counterstamps back in the 50’s. Gregory Brunk wrote a substantial and easily acquired massive hardcover book on American
counterstamps in the 1980’s. And later he wrote a book on foreign counterstamped coins.
The Clark & Edwards large cent ( holed ) on ebay currently at $237. is likely worth that as it is deeply struck in relief inside of a recessed horizontal stamp and is aesthetically attractive and very rare. Attributed to a state/ city or not.
There have been over recent decades significant specialized collections of American counterstamped coins, one being Tony Terranova’s collection by Stack’s or Bowers ( I forgot which ) almost a couple of decades ago. Time goes so fast.
The most valuable American counterstamped coin is the renowned 1787 gold Brasher Doubloon
with EB in a cartouche from New York. Epfraim Brasher was Geo Washington’s neighbor. So famous there was a motion picture in 1947 entitled The Brasher Doubloon based upon Dashiell Hammer’s book of same title. This gold coin is one of the very few American coins which can be described
as an “ opportunity only “ rarity. 1804 dollars , 1913 Lib nickels , 1894-S dimes or 1884-85 trade dollars are not. All you have to have is sufficient $ and the right contacts.. A 1798 small eagle reverse
$5 is “ opportunity only “.
I would much rather own a nicely styled American counter stamped coin than any of these cockamamie MS 69 or PR70 slabbed modern pieces of c…p.
Found this... https://www.scribd.com/document/531726566/jrj-counterstamp-article-pdf-8-2008-2
I've seen several LCs with "Vote the Land Free"... all dated 1844.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
@numis1652 ... thanks for the comprehensive reference... and very interesting info.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
As mentioned, Brunk is the standard reference for counter stamps. That one is listed as C-546. The current price of "a few hundred dollars" is in line with sales of similar pieces.
Many identifiable counterstamps are also listed in Rulau. A similar counterstamped example with additional counter stamps from 5 other silversmiths one is HT-426. That specimen was in the Partrick collection and sold by Heritage recently.
Brunk and Rulau are both rather old now. Brunk was published without prices. Rulau has prices that don't mean a whole lot at this point.
Clark & Anthony were silversmiths based in Providence. They also struck their own Hard Times tokens (HT-425) which are more common than the counterstamps.
The Brunk 1994 edition of Merchant Countermarked Coins is online at the Newman Numismatic Portal. Some have photos and values listed and others don't.
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/647961
This page has the entry for Clark & Edwards, though it doesn't say very much nor have an image of one. Just lists that at least an 1803 large cent exists. More must have been found out among counterstamp collectors after the 1994 issue.
https://archive.org/details/brunkmerchantcountermarks/page/343/mode/2up
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
George Gibbs Clark and Lorenzo Dow Anthony, both silversmiths, jewelers, and watchmakers in Providence RI. Partnered as CLARK & ANTHONY, with a shop at 25 and 27 Cheapside, 1826-1839.
The same mark on six teaspoons and a tablespoon in my research collection
They also did tokens
Besides being silversmiths, they were also dealers in a variety if goods. Noted on these two ads from 1835 and 1836,respectively.
I just love these counterstamped coins and the stories they tell.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Hammered for $407 plus tax and shipping/insurance... I might have to keep on the lookout for these!!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Just a reminder re: terminology:
An "Overstrike" is where an already-struck coin is used as the planchet for a second coin. This has happened officially and is quite normal in some non-US series (eg. Bank of England dollars and Brazilian 960 reis) but in the US series it almost exclusively refers to errors eg. a dime getting overstruck with a penny.
"Countermark" and Counterstamp" both refer to a "partial overstrike", where only part of the original coin is struck over with a new design element. There is some debate as to whether or not "countermark" and "counterstamp" are interchangeable synonyms or whether they have separate and slightly different technical meanings. For example, Doty's Encyclopedic Dictionary follows the "countermark = private, counterstamp = official/government" doctrine.
A "Counterstrike" is retaliatory military action. It is not normally used in numismatic contexts, unless your brother has flung a Peace Dollar at your head and you are plotting to fling a Morgan right back at him.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
So, did this end up in a forum member's collection?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."