@NJCoin said:
Not a "nothing burger." A conspiracy between someone at the Mint and a large buyer or buyers to violate published Mint policy. To the detriment of the public and for the benefit of larger dealers.
Would love to see your proof. In about 10 minutes or less I could setup a bot to monitor the inventory pages for any mint product I want and have it alert me the second inventory becomes available. How do you know they didn't just do that?
And what policy does the mint have against selling large quantities to one person/company if there is no HHL?
I'm afraid you missed the entire point. I am not saying the dealer did anything wrong. Go back and read the thread if you want "proof" of what happened. Go back and read the Mint's press release regarding this very issue. You'll find the policy right there.
For the umpteenth time, the Mint absolutely CAN do anything it wants. Including terminating numismatic sales altogether, going to a wholesale only model like they do with bullion, anything.
The entire point is that you allege (as a fact) that there was a conspiracy between a dealer and the mint. You have no proof of this. I posed a very possible scenario - the use of a bot to be notified when they were available and then purchased coins on the website. Why are you so sure that didn't happen?
What they can't do is say they are going to do one thing, and then do another. If they weren't a government agency, the FTC might very well be investigating them for consumer fraud over what they did here.
I don't see the issue. Large buyers regularly buy large quantities of mint products on the website. This isn't against any policy or published statement.
Why am I so sure?
Because the 4K in question were not made available at release, and the Mint did not accept Back Orders for them.
Because the Mint promptly lifted the HHL after 24 hours, implying there would be no more coins to sell, other than returns.
Because the Mint very clearly stated in a press release "The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales."
Because the Mint did not take orders for up to 12K coins for the first 24 hours of sales.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 8/24 showed 7350 coins sold.
Because the Mint made the additional 4K coins available for sale, with no HHL and no notice or warning, on 9/12.
Because those coins disappeared in 15 minutes.
Because @RAWcoin observed 2K of those coins disappear in one fell swoop.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 9/21 showed 11,972 coins sold.
Because the 2K coins were promptly offered for sale on a dealer network, as reported here by @wondercoin.
Because no dealers were interested in those coins.
Because the Mint promptly reinstated the HHL, in advance of something being offered to the public.
Because the 2K coins in question were indeed offered to the public this past Friday, with the HHL that was lifted on 8/22 reinstated.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 9/28 showed 11,063 coins sold, reflecting the 2K coins returned to inventory, net of those sold between Friday and Sunday.
The rest involves connecting dots, or a confession from the person at the Mint responsible for lifting and reinstating the HHL, and for not taking Back Orders for the coins not ready to be shipped on 8/21, in order to ensure coins were available for bulk purchase after that date. The HHL was lifted to allow the bulk sales, and then reinstated to ensure, once again "fair" distribution to the public after it was clear there was no dealer demand for those coins. I can't help you with either one. Believe what you want. I'll do the same.
I happen to believe there was a conspiracy between one or several people at the Mint, and one or several bulk buyers, to set aside coins that, by policy and public announcement, were supposed to be reserved for sale to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours of sales, in order to ensure they would be available for sale to bulk purchasers later. Which they were, on 9/12.
It just so happens, things didn't work out for one of those bulk purchasers, and the scheme was exposed for all to see. Except you, who sees nothing. Which is fine. This does not have to bother you.
In fact, it's perfectly okay for the Mint to operate like this. As long as they either announce it ahead of time, or, as some here would prefer, they just say nothing at all.
Saying something that turns out to be a lie is consumer fraud. They didn't have to say anything at all. But they did. They said, "The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales."
Not the same as what they did, which was "the mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders for 6K limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales, 2K reserved for ABPP purchasers, and 4K reserved for future release, with no HHL, at a date and time of our choosing, with no public announcement, and probably a private announcement to the people we are holding the coins back for. If things don't work out for these very special customers, we will reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and make whatever they don't want available to the public. Again at an indeterminate date and time of our choosing. Thank you for your patronage and unrequited loyalty."
@jmlanzaf said:
Well, we've definitively proven that it is possible to write 2000 words and say absolutely nothing.
Well, we're still waiting for a response to the question as to whether this is not "good fiction" or a "nothing burger." Or whether something can be both at the same time.
Because whatever it is, it turned to be, rather than fiction, exactly what it looked like it might be. You can't bring yourself to ever give anyone credit, can you? Even though you are early and often pointing fingers when people get things wrong.
Once one gets to the point where words and disclosures mean nothing, anyone can do anything they want, and everything is a nothing burger. I'm just not there yet.
@NJCoin said:
Not a "nothing burger." A conspiracy between someone at the Mint and a large buyer or buyers to violate published Mint policy. To the detriment of the public and for the benefit of larger dealers.
Would love to see your proof. In about 10 minutes or less I could setup a bot to monitor the inventory pages for any mint product I want and have it alert me the second inventory becomes available. How do you know they didn't just do that?
And what policy does the mint have against selling large quantities to one person/company if there is no HHL?
I'm afraid you missed the entire point. I am not saying the dealer did anything wrong. Go back and read the thread if you want "proof" of what happened. Go back and read the Mint's press release regarding this very issue. You'll find the policy right there.
For the umpteenth time, the Mint absolutely CAN do anything it wants. Including terminating numismatic sales altogether, going to a wholesale only model like they do with bullion, anything.
The entire point is that you allege (as a fact) that there was a conspiracy between a dealer and the mint. You have no proof of this. I posed a very possible scenario - the use of a bot to be notified when they were available and then purchased coins on the website. Why are you so sure that didn't happen?
What they can't do is say they are going to do one thing, and then do another. If they weren't a government agency, the FTC might very well be investigating them for consumer fraud over what they did here.
I don't see the issue. Large buyers regularly buy large quantities of mint products on the website. This isn't against any policy or published statement.
Why am I so sure?
Because the 4K in question were not made available at release, and the Mint did not accept Back Orders for them.
Because the Mint promptly lifted the HHL after 24 hours, implying there would be no more coins to sell, other than returns.
Because the Mint very clearly stated in a press release "The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales."
Because the Mint did not take orders for up to 12K coins for the first 24 hours of sales.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 8/24 showed 7350 coins sold.
Because the Mint made the additional 4K coins available for sale, with no HHL and no notice or warning, on 9/12.
Because those coins disappeared in 15 minutes.
Because @RAWcoin observed 2K of those coins disappear in one fell swoop.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 9/21 showed 11,972 coins sold.
Because the 2K coins were promptly offered for sale on a dealer network, as reported here by @wondercoin.
Because no dealers were interested in those coins.
Because the Mint promptly reinstated the HHL, in advance of something being offered to the public.
Because the 2K coins in question were indeed offered to the public this past Friday, with the HHL that was lifted on 8/22 reinstated.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 9/28 showed 11,063 coins sold, reflecting the 2K coins returned to inventory, net of those sold between Friday and Sunday.
The rest involves connecting dots, or a confession from the person at the Mint responsible for lifting and reinstating the HHL, and for not taking Back Orders for the coins not ready to be shipped on 8/21, in order to ensure coins were available for bulk purchase after that date. The HHL was lifted to allow the bulk sales, and then reinstated to ensure, once again "fair" distribution to the public after it was clear there was no dealer demand for those coins. I can't help you with either one. Believe what you want. I'll do the same.
I happen to believe there was a conspiracy between one or several people at the Mint, and one or several bulk buyers, to set aside coins that, by policy and public announcement, were supposed to be reserved for sale to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours of sales, in order to ensure they would be available for sale to bulk purchasers later. Which they were, on 9/12.
It just so happens, things didn't work out for one of those bulk purchasers, and the scheme was exposed for all to see. Except you, who sees nothing. Which is fine. This does not have to bother you.
In fact, it's perfectly okay for the Mint to operate like this. As long as they either announce it ahead of time, or, as some here would prefer, they just say nothing at all.
Saying something that turns out to be a lie is consumer fraud. They didn't have to say anything at all. But they did. They said, "The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales."
Not the same as what they did, which was "the mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders for 6K limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales, 2K reserved for ABPP purchasers, and 4K reserved for future release, with no HHL, at a date and time of our choosing, with no public announcement, and probably a private announcement to the people we are holding the coins back for. If things don't work out for these very special customers, we will reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and make whatever they don't want available to the public. Again at an indeterminate date and time of our choosing. Thank you for your patronage and unrequited loyalty."
I see nothing here that makes the scenario of an aggressive buyer (most likely a dealer) simply using a monitoring bot to alert them to the new inventory and being ready to make a large purchase without requiring any coordination or collusion with the mint. You assign ill motives because you have an axe to grind and that clouds your perspective. I think you forget that the mint could care less if they sell them all in 1 hour or a few months. They are not a retail operation worrying about optimizing cash usage and cash flow. While there is no doubt that they prefer to offer a product and be "done with it" in a reasonable amount of time as anyone would, mint management is perfectly happy if a coin sells out over the period of a few months. Other than illegal kickbacks, there is simply no incentive for them to conspire.
@NJCoin said:
Not a "nothing burger." A conspiracy between someone at the Mint and a large buyer or buyers to violate published Mint policy. To the detriment of the public and for the benefit of larger dealers.
Would love to see your proof. In about 10 minutes or less I could setup a bot to monitor the inventory pages for any mint product I want and have it alert me the second inventory becomes available. How do you know they didn't just do that?
And what policy does the mint have against selling large quantities to one person/company if there is no HHL?
I'm afraid you missed the entire point. I am not saying the dealer did anything wrong. Go back and read the thread if you want "proof" of what happened. Go back and read the Mint's press release regarding this very issue. You'll find the policy right there.
For the umpteenth time, the Mint absolutely CAN do anything it wants. Including terminating numismatic sales altogether, going to a wholesale only model like they do with bullion, anything.
The entire point is that you allege (as a fact) that there was a conspiracy between a dealer and the mint. You have no proof of this. I posed a very possible scenario - the use of a bot to be notified when they were available and then purchased coins on the website. Why are you so sure that didn't happen?
What they can't do is say they are going to do one thing, and then do another. If they weren't a government agency, the FTC might very well be investigating them for consumer fraud over what they did here.
I don't see the issue. Large buyers regularly buy large quantities of mint products on the website. This isn't against any policy or published statement.
Why am I so sure?
Because the 4K in question were not made available at release, and the Mint did not accept Back Orders for them.
Because the Mint promptly lifted the HHL after 24 hours, implying there would be no more coins to sell, other than returns.
Because the Mint very clearly stated in a press release "The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales."
Because the Mint did not take orders for up to 12K coins for the first 24 hours of sales.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 8/24 showed 7350 coins sold.
Because the Mint made the additional 4K coins available for sale, with no HHL and no notice or warning, on 9/12.
Because those coins disappeared in 15 minutes.
Because @RAWcoin observed 2K of those coins disappear in one fell swoop.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 9/21 showed 11,972 coins sold.
Because the 2K coins were promptly offered for sale on a dealer network, as reported here by @wondercoin.
Because no dealers were interested in those coins.
Because the Mint promptly reinstated the HHL, in advance of something being offered to the public.
Because the 2K coins in question were indeed offered to the public this past Friday, with the HHL that was lifted on 8/22 reinstated.
Because the Mint sales report for the week ending 9/28 showed 11,063 coins sold, reflecting the 2K coins returned to inventory, net of those sold between Friday and Sunday.
The rest involves connecting dots, or a confession from the person at the Mint responsible for lifting and reinstating the HHL, and for not taking Back Orders for the coins not ready to be shipped on 8/21, in order to ensure coins were available for bulk purchase after that date. The HHL was lifted to allow the bulk sales, and then reinstated to ensure, once again "fair" distribution to the public after it was clear there was no dealer demand for those coins. I can't help you with either one. Believe what you want. I'll do the same.
I happen to believe there was a conspiracy between one or several people at the Mint, and one or several bulk buyers, to set aside coins that, by policy and public announcement, were supposed to be reserved for sale to the public, one at a time, during the first 24 hours of sales, in order to ensure they would be available for sale to bulk purchasers later. Which they were, on 9/12.
It just so happens, things didn't work out for one of those bulk purchasers, and the scheme was exposed for all to see. Except you, who sees nothing. Which is fine. This does not have to bother you.
In fact, it's perfectly okay for the Mint to operate like this. As long as they either announce it ahead of time, or, as some here would prefer, they just say nothing at all.
Saying something that turns out to be a lie is consumer fraud. They didn't have to say anything at all. But they did. They said, "The mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales."
Not the same as what they did, which was "the mintage is set at 12,000 units, with orders for 6K limited to one coin per household for the first 24 hours of sales, 2K reserved for ABPP purchasers, and 4K reserved for future release, with no HHL, at a date and time of our choosing, with no public announcement, and probably a private announcement to the people we are holding the coins back for. If things don't work out for these very special customers, we will reimpose the HHL for an additional 24 hours, and make whatever they don't want available to the public. Again at an indeterminate date and time of our choosing. Thank you for your patronage and unrequited loyalty."
I see nothing here that makes the scenario of an aggressive buyer (most likely a dealer) simply using a monitoring bot to alert them to the new inventory and being ready to make a large purchase without requiring any coordination or collusion with the mint. You assign ill motives because you have an axe to grind and that clouds your perspective. I think you forget that the mint could care less if they sell them all in 1 hour or a few months. They are not a retail operation worrying about optimizing cash usage and cash flow. While there is no doubt that they prefer to offer a product and be "done with it" in a reasonable amount of time as anyone would, mint management is perfectly happy if a coin sells out over the period of a few months. Other than illegal kickbacks, there is simply no incentive for them to conspire.
And if they wanted to conspire, they would provide better discounts to bulk buyers instead of the silly 5%. And don't forget that they charge ABPP buyers MORE for the privilege of access. The Mint generally treats their bulk buyers like crap compared to every private business in the country.
And somewhat ironically, the coins that the tin foil hat crowd felt were stolen from them are still available days after being made available again.
I look forward to the next 10,000 words of random speculation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
and those few are nearly impossible to get. This morning the silver metal one popped up for about 5 seconds
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It is amazing it has been five weeks and this coin is still not sold out.
350 left.
12k mintage is pretty high number.
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
I believe they will likely sell out before the price increase tomorrow afternoon. Whether it's a great buying opportunity or not depends on where the price of gold goes. The current mint price is $4,665 but one sold on eBay for as low as $4,700 (ungraded) in the last few days--though it seems most ungraded coins go for around $5,100 give or take.
It is amazing it has been five weeks and this coin is still not sold out.
350 left.
12k mintage is pretty high number.
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
I believe they will likely sell out before the price increase tomorrow afternoon. Whether it's a great buying opportunity or not depends on where the price of gold goes. The current mint price is $4,665 but one sold on eBay for as low as $4,700 (ungraded) in the last few days--though it seems most ungraded coins go for around $5,100 give or take.
Short term sales on fleabay are not a totally accurate measure. A temporary gauge yes. A few raws sold on fleabay after this Friday's release for $5150 etc. and not cancelled and relisted. A few at $5250 and $5445 sold also but were cancelled and relisted.
The long play is what is important. That is my worthless opinion.
It remains a low mintage product.
edit: another fleabay anecdote: a week ago two 2021 Mustang Bronco graded Liberty Gold coins sold for $5K. I believe they were hacked accounts.
Just over the past two days another two graded Broncos sold for around $5K No idea whether they are legitimate sales. At the same time as I write, there are a couple of auctions for graded Broncos already at $7K plus...
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
either way, if you love the coin, buy it. If you're looking at it from an investment perspective, then you should be holding it for the long haul anyways. The premium is basically 1k over spot, and personally i would slab the coin if i'm paying that much of a premium. I've never seen any of the high relief coins sell for "melt" or "spot" as others have claimed, but i could be wrong.
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
I have been patience since 2021 and 2023. Dont recalled being cheaper than mint issuedprice. The secondary market has spoken.
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
I agree so I’m waiting. May win one at a lower price or may not. I got a CACG Flowing Hair silver medal with the 230 privy and all the OGP for $4930…and free shipping a few weeks ago. It was from a reputable coin company on eBay…and I have it in my hands. Haven’t see a lower price yet so feel I did well…and with the CAC grading felt even better about my purchase. Cheers!
Buy is easy but when you want to sell you will feel the pain if gold can't stay that high. Look back for Kennedy half coin. eBay list price can't tell much only if they can be sold at such price.
It is amazing it has been five weeks and this coin is still not sold out.
350 left.
12k mintage is pretty high number.
12k Mintage is exactly in line with the 2021 bronco (12,471) and 2023 pinecone (12,188). Those coins have proven to do exceptionally well. I believe this coin will see a price jump once the recent inventory is digested.
Again, that is why I thought this morning was a great chance to get the coin on a dip.
I’ve accumulated 9 of them. They’ll be graded and held onto for a few years. Love the design. Had sunflowers at our wedding and they’re quite popular in my household.
@Tomthemailcarrier said:
I’ve accumulated 9 of them. They’ll be graded and held onto for a few years. Love the design. Had sunflowers at our wedding and they’re quite popular in my household.
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
I have been patience since 2021 and 2023. Dont recalled being cheaper than mint issuedprice. The secondary market has spoken.
You're talking about 2 specific issues. Would you like a list of the 100 coins that are cheaper?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Ok I was wrong on that 2019 since the mintage is 50k. How about this one? What I am trying to say is that if gold stay high it is ok to buy especially if you bought earlier with 400 cheaper. If mint drops the price 400 I will buy one now since is close to gold price. However since the mintage is high you can always get one easily with little premium over gold price later
@jt88 said:
Ok I was wrong on that 2019 since the mintage is 50k. How about this one? What I am trying to say is that if gold stay high it is ok to buy especially if you bought earlier with 400 cheaper. If mint drops the price 400 I will buy one now since is close to gold price. However since the mintage is high you can always get one easily with little premium over gold price later
I understand recently sale price is high because gold price is high but what happens if gold drop back to 2800 or 3k? How much you expect you can sell? Of course if gold hit 5k then you will do really well. That’s what I am trying to say it really depends on the gold price if you don’t have any other coins to buy it is ok to buy now.
The 2019 has a mintage of 50,000. The coin is also not nearly as pretty as the 2021, 2023, 2024 (Flowing Hair) or 2025 Sunflower.
I'd happily buy your 21, 23 or 25 high relief coins if you attach your pricing to intrinsic metal value
I do not mean to nitpick, but this is inaccurate.
For 19DA, the:
~ mintage limit was 50,000. (AUG-2018 Mint Press Release)
~ but, the last reported sales figure was 24,609 on 30-JAN-2022. (Link to 'Cumulative Sales Figures')
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
I have been patience since 2021 and 2023. Dont recalled being cheaper than mint issuedprice. The secondary market has spoken.
You're talking about 2 specific issues. Would you like a list of the 100 coins that are cheaper?
I must have missed the other 100 American Liberty High Relief Gold coins with mintage of approx. 12000.
Well, again fleabay lately has had some questionable Gold coin sales. One I verified as a hacked account selling a Bronco. I was interested but sniffed it out and fleabay later verified it as hacked. The very low 'buy it now' recent sales price examples for the Bronco Liberty 2021 gold coins graded 70, are questionable. Seems like fleabay is getting hacked up. Just like this forum had a rash of hacked classifieds.
I can't comment on the 2023 variant, but time wise it is not very matured.
On a personal anecdote, during the first round I was on the border but my mind was preoccupied on other stuff and I completely forgot about my arbitrages. I did not buy. This time around, with a clearer mind, I did buy a couple because the arbitrage that I had brought the two expenses down to significantly below gold spot price, at that time. Suffice it to say that I have a comfortable hedge in case of a worst case scenario, value wise, down the road. But, I remain galvanized by the product itself and low mintage. Good for the long hold.
Every individual does there own mental math and art appreciation.
@goldman86 said:
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
I have been patience since 2021 and 2023. Dont recalled being cheaper than mint issuedprice. The secondary market has spoken.
You're talking about 2 specific issues. Would you like a list of the 100 coins that are cheaper?
I must have missed the other 100 American Liberty High Relief Gold coins with mintage of approx. 12000.
Even most of the American Liberty coins are bullion at this point... 2 of them are good out of 10. So, again, you can cherry pick the data, if you like. But I like my odds on the secondary market if I ever want to collect them.
And I know you're going to tell me that the 2017 coin (for example) has gone up as bullion has gone up. But you would have done better with an AGE in 2017 because you wouldn't have had to pay the premium.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
The 2021 Bronco relief gold coin has been showing up on eBay quite often lately, typically listed around ~$5K. All of these are from hacked accounts. If the seller is overseas, you can assume with 100% certainty it’s a hacked account. Even for domestic sellers, be wary if the account has little or no recent feedback, those are very likely compromised as well.
@jclovescoins said:
SOLD OUT....I bought 3 of them this round after selling my initial 2 for $5000 to other forum members.
I love the design and think this is a winner.
Same here, I really like the design. I think it will end up being valued higher than the 2023 Pinecone but probably not as much as the 2021 Bronco. I picked up two directly from the Mint, sent both to PCGS, and they came back First Strike PR70s. I also grabbed a few with FDOI labels from a dealer. My plan is to sell a couple once the premium rises about $500 over the 2023s.
@triplelake said:
The 2021 Bronco relief gold coin has been showing up on eBay quite often lately, typically listed around ~$5K. All of these are from hacked accounts. If the seller is overseas, you can assume with 100% certainty it’s a hacked account. Even for domestic sellers, be wary if the account has little or no recent feedback, those are very likely compromised as well.
Yep, Broncos too good to be true are probably hacked, many months ago. I purchased one. It was a hacked account. I got my money back no harm done, but like I said if it’s too good to be true it probably is.
By the way, my most recent liberty from the mint, the second batch has shipped
@triplelake said:
The 2021 Bronco relief gold coin has been showing up on eBay quite often lately, typically listed around ~$5K. All of these are from hacked accounts. If the seller is overseas, you can assume with 100% certainty it’s a hacked account. Even for domestic sellers, be wary if the account has little or no recent feedback, those are very likely compromised as well.
Comments
These words make perfectly sense to me.
Well, we're still waiting for a response to the question as to whether this is not "good fiction" or a "nothing burger." Or whether something can be both at the same time.
Because whatever it is, it turned to be, rather than fiction, exactly what it looked like it might be. You can't bring yourself to ever give anyone credit, can you? Even though you are early and often pointing fingers when people get things wrong.
Once one gets to the point where words and disclosures mean nothing, anyone can do anything they want, and everything is a nothing burger. I'm just not there yet.
346
I see nothing here that makes the scenario of an aggressive buyer (most likely a dealer) simply using a monitoring bot to alert them to the new inventory and being ready to make a large purchase without requiring any coordination or collusion with the mint. You assign ill motives because you have an axe to grind and that clouds your perspective. I think you forget that the mint could care less if they sell them all in 1 hour or a few months. They are not a retail operation worrying about optimizing cash usage and cash flow. While there is no doubt that they prefer to offer a product and be "done with it" in a reasonable amount of time as anyone would, mint management is perfectly happy if a coin sells out over the period of a few months. Other than illegal kickbacks, there is simply no incentive for them to conspire.
http://ProofCollection.Net
And if they wanted to conspire, they would provide better discounts to bulk buyers instead of the silly 5%. And don't forget that they charge ABPP buyers MORE for the privilege of access. The Mint generally treats their bulk buyers like crap compared to every private business in the country.
And somewhat ironically, the coins that the tin foil hat crowd felt were stolen from them are still available days after being made available again.
I look forward to the next 10,000 words of random speculation.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Now back up to 379. Seems there were some cancellations
It is amazing it has been five weeks and this coin is still not sold out.
350 left.
It seems that people forget that it is normal for mint products to take many months to sell out.
http://ProofCollection.Net
12k mintage is pretty high number.
Coin will sell out very shortly. This a great buying opportunity to add this coin to your collection at mint issue price. When these 300 are gone, The coin in large part, will not be available again (a few at 7:30, but no large quantities).
380 now, mu> @goldman86 said:
and those few are nearly impossible to get. This morning the silver metal one popped up for about 5 seconds
jdimmick;Gerard;wondercoin;claychaser;agentjim007;CCC2010;guitarwes;TAMU15;Zubie;mariner67;segoja;Smittys;kaz;CARDSANDCOINS;FadeToBlack;
jrt103;tizofthe;bronze6827;mkman;Scootersdad;AllCoinsRule;coindeuce;dmarks;piecesofme; and many more
So content, I got the one gold (early) I wanted and a couple of the silver, late, but quickly evaporated early in the morning.
I believe they will likely sell out before the price increase tomorrow afternoon. Whether it's a great buying opportunity or not depends on where the price of gold goes. The current mint price is $4,665 but one sold on eBay for as low as $4,700 (ungraded) in the last few days--though it seems most ungraded coins go for around $5,100 give or take.
346> @MilesWaits said:
resale on ebay puts you not much over issue
Short term sales on fleabay are not a totally accurate measure. A temporary gauge yes. A few raws sold on fleabay after this Friday's release for $5150 etc. and not cancelled and relisted. A few at $5250 and $5445 sold also but were cancelled and relisted.
The long play is what is important. That is my worthless opinion.
It remains a low mintage product.
edit: another fleabay anecdote: a week ago two 2021 Mustang Bronco graded Liberty Gold coins sold for $5K. I believe they were hacked accounts.
Just over the past two days another two graded Broncos sold for around $5K No idea whether they are legitimate sales. At the same time as I write, there are a couple of auctions for graded Broncos already at $7K plus...
Might well be cheaper on the secondary market given patience.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
either way, if you love the coin, buy it. If you're looking at it from an investment perspective, then you should be holding it for the long haul anyways. The premium is basically 1k over spot, and personally i would slab the coin if i'm paying that much of a premium. I've never seen any of the high relief coins sell for "melt" or "spot" as others have claimed, but i could be wrong.
I have been patience since 2021 and 2023. Dont recalled being cheaper than mint issuedprice. The secondary market has spoken.
also the coin is now sold out at the mint.
Yep also half dime got it right. Sold out this afternoon rather than late evening. Cool!!
I agree so I’m waiting. May win one at a lower price or may not. I got a CACG Flowing Hair silver medal with the 230 privy and all the OGP for $4930…and free shipping a few weeks ago. It was from a reputable coin company on eBay…and I have it in my hands. Haven’t see a lower price yet so feel I did well…and with the CAC grading felt even better about my purchase. Cheers!
Buy is easy but when you want to sell you will feel the pain if gold can't stay that high. Look back for Kennedy half coin. eBay list price can't tell much only if they can be sold at such price.
12k Mintage is exactly in line with the 2021 bronco (12,471) and 2023 pinecone (12,188). Those coins have proven to do exceptionally well. I believe this coin will see a price jump once the recent inventory is digested.
Again, that is why I thought this morning was a great chance to get the coin on a dip.
I’ve accumulated 9 of them. They’ll be graded and held onto for a few years. Love the design. Had sunflowers at our wedding and they’re quite popular in my household.
I wish i could afford 9!
This is not exactly high demand. It will depends on the gold price
I would have bought another but the price increase was to hard to swallow!
That isn't this. Maybe check the mintages before posting.
Wrong year, higher mintage and different finish on the coin.
And in June 2024 gold was $2400-ish per ounce.
I suggest you doing a little more research.
The 2019 has a mintage of 50,000. The coin is also not nearly as pretty as the 2021, 2023, 2024 (Flowing Hair) or 2025 Sunflower.
I'd happily buy your 21, 23 or 25 high relief coins if you attach your pricing to intrinsic metal value
You're talking about 2 specific issues. Would you like a list of the 100 coins that are cheaper?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Ok I was wrong on that 2019 since the mintage is 50k. How about this one? What I am trying to say is that if gold stay high it is ok to buy especially if you bought earlier with 400 cheaper. If mint drops the price 400 I will buy one now since is close to gold price. However since the mintage is high you can always get one easily with little premium over gold price later
I understand recently sale price is high because gold price is high but what happens if gold drop back to 2800 or 3k? How much you expect you can sell? Of course if gold hit 5k then you will do really well. That’s what I am trying to say it really depends on the gold price if you don’t have any other coins to buy it is ok to buy now.
The Kennedy half gold dollar I bought in 2023 did pretty good on eBay because of the gold price.
I do not mean to nitpick, but this is inaccurate.
For 19DA, the:
~ mintage limit was 50,000. (AUG-2018 Mint Press Release)
~ but, the last reported sales figure was 24,609 on 30-JAN-2022. (Link to 'Cumulative Sales Figures')
Raw coin vs graded price differential.
SOLD OUT....I bought 3 of them this round after selling my initial 2 for $5000 to other forum members.
I love the design and think this is a winner.
I must have missed the other 100 American Liberty High Relief Gold coins with mintage of approx. 12000.
Well, again fleabay lately has had some questionable Gold coin sales. One I verified as a hacked account selling a Bronco. I was interested but sniffed it out and fleabay later verified it as hacked. The very low 'buy it now' recent sales price examples for the Bronco Liberty 2021 gold coins graded 70, are questionable. Seems like fleabay is getting hacked up. Just like this forum had a rash of hacked classifieds.
I can't comment on the 2023 variant, but time wise it is not very matured.
On a personal anecdote, during the first round I was on the border but my mind was preoccupied on other stuff and I completely forgot about my arbitrages. I did not buy. This time around, with a clearer mind, I did buy a couple because the arbitrage that I had brought the two expenses down to significantly below gold spot price, at that time. Suffice it to say that I have a comfortable hedge in case of a worst case scenario, value wise, down the road. But, I remain galvanized by the product itself and low mintage. Good for the long hold.
Every individual does there own mental math and art appreciation.
Good on everybody.
Even most of the American Liberty coins are bullion at this point... 2 of them are good out of 10. So, again, you can cherry pick the data, if you like. But I like my odds on the secondary market if I ever want to collect them.
And I know you're going to tell me that the 2017 coin (for example) has gone up as bullion has gone up. But you would have done better with an AGE in 2017 because you wouldn't have had to pay the premium.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Didn’t buy the coin but took this picture at a local pumpkin patch tonight
The 2021 Bronco relief gold coin has been showing up on eBay quite often lately, typically listed around ~$5K. All of these are from hacked accounts. If the seller is overseas, you can assume with 100% certainty it’s a hacked account. Even for domestic sellers, be wary if the account has little or no recent feedback, those are very likely compromised as well.
Same here, I really like the design. I think it will end up being valued higher than the 2023 Pinecone but probably not as much as the 2021 Bronco. I picked up two directly from the Mint, sent both to PCGS, and they came back First Strike PR70s. I also grabbed a few with FDOI labels from a dealer. My plan is to sell a couple once the premium rises about $500 over the 2023s.
post a link when you can
Yep, Broncos too good to be true are probably hacked, many months ago. I purchased one. It was a hacked account. I got my money back no harm done, but like I said if it’s too good to be true it probably is.
By the way, my most recent liberty from the mint, the second batch has shipped
https://www.ebay.com/itm/257123065095
This one is hacked also:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/297647078385