@alaura22 said:
Sounds crazy to me, If I found 35 1893-s Morgan's I wouldn't send they all in for grading at the same time and I wouldn't be putting them all up for auction at the same time
Doesn't make sense
JMO
Keep in mind who got first dibs on the estate. Thats why they’re all going in the same auction together. Heritage, YOU SUCK.
I have expressed reservations about the wisdom of putting all the coins in one auction. But I readily acknowledge that Heritage Auctions knows more about putting expensive coins up for auction than I do.
I fail to understand why you (@TwoSides2aCoin) condemn HA, as if it's serving up some sort of underhanded self-dealing. The reality, of course, is that HA makes more money for selling coins at a higher price. The further reality, of course, is that HA is a highly-reputable firm. While I don't understand why they're doing it this way, it is in their own best interest to maximize the aggregate hammer price, so I'm sure they have good reasons for doing it this way. For my own edification, I would like to know those reasons, but I think it's (at best) presumptuous for anyone to condemn HA for this, without knowing the business as well as they do.
Huh ? You must also be unaware of the “you suck” award. Condemn ? You meant commend, I presume because I don’t want to assume you two are ignorant of some slangs long used to commend another, right here on these boards. Do a search for “You Suck”. Rather, I did that for you folks sitting in the judgement chair. What’s the matter with a few of you ? https://forums.collectors.com/search?Search=you+suck
As I've contemplated more, 35 coins is a lot. Dumping them all at once is probably better than doling them out over a 3-5 year period. Either way I think the price is suppressed for a while but there's probably less damage doing it all at once.
A few thoughts, guesses and opinions regarding this just to exercise my brain:
_ When reading the original post, my first reaction was that it would surely make more sense to auction them in smaller amounts spread over time.
_ The more I learned my view changed and would likely handle it the same way it is being done. This amount being fresh to the market is an advantage over say a similar sized hoard if relatively recently acquired from the market then being dumped back on the market at once.
_ After finding the intro about the Desert Find hoard in the catalog saw that the hoard was 35 total rather than the 45 total in the auction search.
_ The 35 is only 5 to 10 percent of Uncs going by PCGS population. And that is assuming all non-PCGS Uncs are duplicates of PCGS to account for resubmissions over the years.
_ The coin market and dollar market is big enough to absorb what may be no more than $1 to $2 million in value for the 89-CC's. It is a question of how will it affect price results. If the hoard was larger, it would make sense to split it up. At what number that would be who knows, though I think 35 is getting close to the limit.
_ The grades are spread out from 61 to 64+ without greatly distorting any particular grade.
_ All at once removes any doubt what is in the 89-CC hoard and what the grades are. No risk of more overhanging the market.
_ All at once allowed them to get into one of the most attention getting auctions of the year.
_ All at once is going to grab more attention of dealers and collectors looking for undergrades and those who may have been going to get one eventually but will instead try now hoping to get one cheaper than recent market. Maybe it could work out that way for some, though I doubt more than a 10 to 20 percent discount from current market at most if any. With the likely increased number of potential buyers creating more demand than usual, the market will find its level and probably be the same or even better than spreading them out.
_ The way the sale of these is being handled can not be against the will of the consignor or it would not happen. While it's possible for it to be against the advice of Heritage, I'm guessing there was agreement this was the best way by both parties.
The results will be interesting.
Just to clarify, I counted 45 1889-CC's in the auction, but if I miscounted let me know. They have coins from other sources too.
@ProofCollection said:
As I've contemplated more, 35 coins is a lot. Dumping them all at once is probably better than doling them out over a 3-5 year period. Either way I think the price is suppressed for a while but there's probably less damage doing it all at once.
A few thoughts, guesses and opinions regarding this just to exercise my brain:
_ When reading the original post, my first reaction was that it would surely make more sense to auction them in smaller amounts spread over time.
_ The more I learned my view changed and would likely handle it the same way it is being done. This amount being fresh to the market is an advantage over say a similar sized hoard if relatively recently acquired from the market then being dumped back on the market at once.
_ After finding the intro about the Desert Find hoard in the catalog saw that the hoard was 35 total rather than the 45 total in the auction search.
_ The 35 is only 5 to 10 percent of Uncs going by PCGS population. And that is assuming all non-PCGS Uncs are duplicates of PCGS to account for resubmissions over the years.
_ The coin market and dollar market is big enough to absorb what may be no more than $1 to $2 million in value for the 89-CC's. It is a question of how will it affect price results. If the hoard was larger, it would make sense to split it up. At what number that would be who knows, though I think 35 is getting close to the limit.
_ The grades are spread out from 61 to 64+ without greatly distorting any particular grade.
_ All at once removes any doubt what is in the 89-CC hoard and what the grades are. No risk of more overhanging the market.
_ All at once allowed them to get into one of the most attention getting auctions of the year.
_ All at once is going to grab more attention of dealers and collectors looking for undergrades and those who may have been going to get one eventually but will instead try now hoping to get one cheaper than recent market. Maybe it could work out that way for some, though I doubt more than a 10 to 20 percent discount from current market at most if any. With the likely increased number of potential buyers creating more demand than usual, the market will find its level and probably be the same or even better than spreading them out.
_ The way the sale of these is being handled can not be against the will of the consignor or it would not happen. While it's possible for it to be against the advice of Heritage, I'm guessing there was agreement this was the best way by both parties.
The results will be interesting.
Just to clarify, I counted 45 1889-CC's in the auction, but if I miscounted let me know. They have coins from other sources too.
That's what his 3rd bullet point says, is there something I'm misinterpreting about your comment?
Seems to me that selling 35 at once might result in a 5-10% discount if the coins look completely maxed out. But if the coins are even halfway conservatively graded, a premium seems more likely.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@alaura22 said:
Sounds crazy to me, If I found 35 1893-s Morgan's I wouldn't send they all in for grading at the same time and I wouldn't be putting them all up for auction at the same time
Doesn't make sense
JMO
Keep in mind who got first dibs on the estate. Thats why they’re all going in the same auction together. Heritage, YOU SUCK.
It's quite possible that they have a need to sell quickly to settle the estate. A bit presumptive to make such a statement without knowing the situation.
I’m sorry ….. maybe you’re too much a newbie to understand what a “YOU SUCK” is, or represents. In the old days it was a complimentary award for such finds. I’d like to say “you suck”, but I haven’t seen a reason to award you one.
@ProofCollection said:
As I've contemplated more, 35 coins is a lot. Dumping them all at once is probably better than doling them out over a 3-5 year period. Either way I think the price is suppressed for a while but there's probably less damage doing it all at once.
A few thoughts, guesses and opinions regarding this just to exercise my brain:
...
The results will be interesting.
Just to clarify, I counted 45 1889-CC's in the auction, but if I miscounted let me know. They have coins from other sources too.
The link in the OP brought up 45 listings with 35 being Uncs from the hoard. Of the other 10, two are actually non-hoard 1879-CC's; 7 are circulated non-hoard 89-CC coins and 1 is a non-hoard 89-CC PCGS-62 CAC, so 36 total Uncs in the auction.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@Cougar1978 said:
Yea wb interesting see how CPG reacts. Greater pops are like gravity right? Think CDN bid will drop / interesting. Can’t keep them ultra low pop forever.
They were never, even remotely, "ultra low pop". Coinfacts estimates there are an estimated 25,000+ survivors, 4,250 in MS grades, ultimately this find is just a drop in the bucket.
Agreed, but they are very low pop if not ultra low pop in PL & DMPL.
@alaura22 said:
Sounds crazy to me, If I found 35 1893-s Morgan's I wouldn't send they all in for grading at the same time and I wouldn't be putting them all up for auction at the same time
Doesn't make sense
JMO
Keep in mind who got first dibs on the estate. Thats why they’re all going in the same auction together. Heritage, YOU SUCK.
I have expressed reservations about the wisdom of putting all the coins in one auction. But I readily acknowledge that Heritage Auctions knows more about putting expensive coins up for auction than I do.
I fail to understand why you (@TwoSides2aCoin) condemn HA, as if it's serving up some sort of underhanded self-dealing. The reality, of course, is that HA makes more money for selling coins at a higher price. The further reality, of course, is that HA is a highly-reputable firm. While I don't understand why they're doing it this way, it is in their own best interest to maximize the aggregate hammer price, so I'm sure they have good reasons for doing it this way. For my own edification, I would like to know those reasons, but I think it's (at best) presumptuous for anyone to condemn HA for this, without knowing the business as well as they do.
Huh ? You must also be unaware of the “you suck” award. Condemn ? You meant commend, I presume because I don’t want to assume you two are ignorant of some slangs long used to commend another, right here on these boards. Do a search for “You Suck”. Rather, I did that for you folks sitting in the judgement chair. What’s the matter with a few of you ? https://forums.collectors.com/search?Search=you+suck
I have no idea what it is that you're trying to say.
@alaura22 said:
Sounds crazy to me, If I found 35 1893-s Morgan's I wouldn't send they all in for grading at the same time and I wouldn't be putting them all up for auction at the same time
Doesn't make sense
JMO
Keep in mind who got first dibs on the estate. Thats why they’re all going in the same auction together. Heritage, YOU SUCK.
It's quite possible that they have a need to sell quickly to settle the estate. A bit presumptive to make such a statement without knowing the situation.
I’m sorry ….. maybe you’re too much a newbie to understand what a “YOU SUCK” is, or represents. In the old days it was a complimentary award for such finds. I’d like to say “you suck”, but I haven’t seen a reason to award you one.
I'm not sure I'm the only one who didn't read it that way. The "all going in the same auction" sounded like a criticism.
You don't suck either. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who sucks less.
@alaura22 said:
Sounds crazy to me, If I found 35 1893-s Morgan's I wouldn't send they all in for grading at the same time and I wouldn't be putting them all up for auction at the same time
Doesn't make sense
JMO
Keep in mind who got first dibs on the estate. Thats why they’re all going in the same auction together. Heritage, YOU SUCK.
I have expressed reservations about the wisdom of putting all the coins in one auction. But I readily acknowledge that Heritage Auctions knows more about putting expensive coins up for auction than I do.
I fail to understand why you (@TwoSides2aCoin) condemn HA, as if it's serving up some sort of underhanded self-dealing. The reality, of course, is that HA makes more money for selling coins at a higher price. The further reality, of course, is that HA is a highly-reputable firm. While I don't understand why they're doing it this way, it is in their own best interest to maximize the aggregate hammer price, so I'm sure they have good reasons for doing it this way. For my own edification, I would like to know those reasons, but I think it's (at best) presumptuous for anyone to condemn HA for this, without knowing the business as well as they do.
Huh ? You must also be unaware of the “you suck” award. Condemn ? You meant commend, I presume because I don’t want to assume you two are ignorant of some slangs long used to commend another, right here on these boards. Do a search for “You Suck”. Rather, I did that for you folks sitting in the judgement chair. What’s the matter with a few of you ? https://forums.collectors.com/search?Search=you+suck
I have no idea what it is that you're trying to say.
But I also don't care anymore.
The "you suck" award was given (unofficially) on the forum for worthwhile cherry picks.
He doesn't seem to understand that context matters. $1.5 million in coins is routine for them.
There are just more of them to promote. I suspect they will do well enough and likely pull afew other CC Morgans along for the ride- especially the 1879-cc, 92-cc and 93-cc. Let's revisit in 5 years to see what happens
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think for reasons described above by others commenting on this, that the price impact on the 1889 CC Morgan Dollar will be minimal as a result of this hoard being disbursed.
Contrast that to the discovery of a roll of high grade 1912 S Liberty Nickels discovered about 10 years ago that was released on the market. The price cratered in MS 66 (was looking for one at the time) and I stopped collecting the series as a result.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Comments
Huh ? You must also be unaware of the “you suck” award. Condemn ? You meant commend, I presume because I don’t want to assume you two are ignorant of some slangs long used to commend another, right here on these boards. Do a search for “You Suck”. Rather, I did that for you folks sitting in the judgement chair. What’s the matter with a few of you ? https://forums.collectors.com/search?Search=you+suck
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
As I've contemplated more, 35 coins is a lot. Dumping them all at once is probably better than doling them out over a 3-5 year period. Either way I think the price is suppressed for a while but there's probably less damage doing it all at once.
Just to clarify, I counted 45 1889-CC's in the auction, but if I miscounted let me know. They have coins from other sources too.
http://ProofCollection.Net
That's what his 3rd bullet point says, is there something I'm misinterpreting about your comment?
Seems to me that selling 35 at once might result in a 5-10% discount if the coins look completely maxed out. But if the coins are even halfway conservatively graded, a premium seems more likely.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It's ok, you can say it.
The coins were only certified once by PCGS and have never been sent to CAC. They are freshly graded and fresh to the market.
The link in the OP brought up 45 listings with 35 being Uncs from the hoard. Of the other 10, two are actually non-hoard 1879-CC's; 7 are circulated non-hoard 89-CC coins and 1 is a non-hoard 89-CC PCGS-62 CAC, so 36 total Uncs in the auction.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Agreed, but they are very low pop if not ultra low pop in PL & DMPL.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I have no idea what it is that you're trying to say.
But I also don't care anymore.
I'm not sure I'm the only one who didn't read it that way. The "all going in the same auction" sounded like a criticism.
You don't suck either. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who sucks less.
The "you suck" award was given (unofficially) on the forum for worthwhile cherry picks.
He doesn't seem to understand that context matters. $1.5 million in coins is routine for them.
The 1889-cc is an iconic coin-
There are just more of them to promote. I suspect they will do well enough and likely pull afew other CC Morgans along for the ride- especially the 1879-cc, 92-cc and 93-cc. Let's revisit in 5 years to see what happens
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Here is a video about the collection:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-eLfS5RAt8
I think for reasons described above by others commenting on this, that the price impact on the 1889 CC Morgan Dollar will be minimal as a result of this hoard being disbursed.
Contrast that to the discovery of a roll of high grade 1912 S Liberty Nickels discovered about 10 years ago that was released on the market. The price cratered in MS 66 (was looking for one at the time) and I stopped collecting the series as a result.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."