Three Day GTG - Coin #6 Ends 8-10 - REVEALED 64RD CAM
FlyingAl
Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
Good luck, same rules as last time!
I thought it would be interesting to run a sort of experiment here with GTGs. Oftentimes posters will use GTGs to get an idea of if to resubmit a coin, or not to.
Here's my question - how accurate is the forum, grading from images alone? Over the years, I've built up a good chunk of coins with my own images that we can use for this purpose, given the consistent images and vast array of grades/services.
Here's how I plan to do it - one coin a week, after which the grades will be tallied and scored. Each correct answer will be 0 points, 1 point off is 1 point, 2 points off 2 points, etc. Missing designations counts as a point. Essentially, the fewer points at the end of the grade session the better. All coins for the moment will be CAC certified, so as to add another degree of accuracy in the actual grade. I will also choose coins I feel are properly graded.
I will upload the guesses into the below publicly accessible Google Sheet, so you all can view the data for yourselves.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UYJAbLnHMsDWuv72Rj7AjlTbFLkctDOiw7rHwDq45ZU/edit?gid=0#gid=0
I'll let each coin run for roughly three days.
Comments
Pr-67 RD Cameo (Edited to add RD)
PR 66 CAM
I think I need to abstain on this one.......
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I feel that I have seen this coin before so I will refrain from commenting on the grade.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
PF-67 Red Cam
PR66RD Cam
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
PR66RDCA
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
PR 64 Red Cam. Multiple small scratches in rt obv field. Also spot on cheek.
PF66RDCAM, just like the 1951PF66RDCAM cent that I made today.
Or maybe PF67RDCAM.
Can I have two guesses?
PR65RD
67rd cam
Proof-65 Red Cameo
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Proof grading from images. Baaaaahhhh!!
Okay, whatever.
PF66RD CAM
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Unfortunately no. Feel free to clarify which you'd like!
I know, I know...
Although the last Proof had the most accurate grading of any coin thus far.
PR 67 RD CAM
Slight problem on this one - realized it's missing the bean.
I'm comfortable with the assigned grade, and unless there are a few posters here who have a problem with this one, we'll include it since we have so many guesses already.
.
I don't have a problem, but it kind of defeats the purpose in some ways. After all, we are guessing a TPG and JA have seen the coin and agree (or JA agrees that the TPG didn't overgrade the coin based on his standard, as the case might be).
Food for thought.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I'm thinking we'll let it run, and more than likely throw this one out. Just a fun little one perhaps.
Pr 66 Red Cameo
PR65 RD CAM
http://ProofCollection.Net
Can you start saying what generation holder it's in? As I mentioned in an earlier GTG thread, the holder generation will somewhat indicate if it's + grade eligible. ie, OGHs won't have + grades. And please affirm in the OP that the coins are in PCGS holders. I've been burned by that before.
http://ProofCollection.Net
PR 67 RD Cameo
If I get it right it MUST be included. It would be my first time getting it right. James
PR66 red cameo.
I'm going with 66RD CAM, but if I had sent it in they probably would have hit me hard for the prominent die polish and graded it 64CAM.
Collector, occasional seller
Are we sure that's "die polish" sure looks like the typical hairlines on proof coins.
PR66RD CAM
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Yes, they go all the way up to the devices.
Collector, occasional seller
PR66RD CAM
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
PR67RD CAM
OK.
PF66RDCAM
66 RD CAM
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
PR66
Pr 66 Rd CAM
PR66RDCAM
Edited to add the color designation, which I originally left out.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
PF 66 CAM RD (Sorry, forgot the RD on first guess)
PR-66RD CAM
Collector
91 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 56 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Here's the reveal! Average grade was a PR66RD CAM, so two points off on this one. This is probably the nicest CAM you can get for the date.
Re: cam - what about that frost break on the shoulder?
Based on the overall contrast on each side, the coin looks closer to deep cameo than non-cameo.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be honest, this is the kind of coin that would end up in a NGC DCAM holder. I wouldn't complain if I saw it as a PCGS/CAC DCAM either - it's the best contrast I've seen on any coin for the era.
As one of the finalizers and company heads said in an interview a while back, they may be leery of assigning a "pop1" grade or designation and the software alerts the finalizer to this, so they may think long and hard about giving the coin a DCAM designation. NGC has certified 6 DCAMs in all grades while PCGS has graded one.
Are there hair lines on the coin that do not show on the photograph? (which, if present, would reduce the numerical grade).
Not particularly. As mentioned, the die polish often counts against these coins.
It’s only very recently I’ve seen examples where it doesn’t count against the grade, but that’s my personal experience.
@FlyingAl What would be your numerical grade for the coin under today’s PCGS/NGC standards? Do you see justification for the 64?
Die polish does not affect grade. Hairlines will often not show up in images of proofs.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
I think it’s correct depending on how you count the hairlines vs. die polish issue.
When compared to most 64s of the same grade, this stacks up well. It’s simply how they’re graded (tightly IMO).
In my personal opinion, the 64s of this date and type are generally undergraded as a whole. Again, just my opinion.
For example, here’s another 64CAM with a bean, albeit NGC. Older images, before I edited in white backgrounds, but since I’m at he gym it’s what I have on my phone.
Correct, but in this case I think the die polish was docked by the graders.
Edit - video link: https://www.mycollect.com/posts/99838
The lines (polish) in the right obverse are the only things that would really bring the grade to 64 IMO.
That’s not something that happens.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en