@JoeBanzai said:
The Vikings are talking like Darnold will start the season as #1.
I have a feeling he might play very well.
Not sure why you, or anyone else for that matter, is down on McCarthy. We will see soon enough (next year would be fine) if he can win in the pros.
On Cousins, he did turn down more money from the Jets to come to Minnesota, but you know, the Jets.
I liked Cousins, but for him to be successful, you have to give him a pocket, for most of his time here, the center and guards were bad pass blockers.
The reason why the college fans dont like McCarthy is because hes a game manager. He averages under 200 yards passing a game for his career at Michigan. When Michigan needed something done they put the ball in the hands of Corum or Edwards not McCarthy. Michigan during his time there had at least a top 15 roster every year and usually was more like 7-9. OSU was the only team in the conference with a better roster and PSU had a significant gap for 3. He didnt even throw the ball against PSU because Michigan didnt want him to be able to make mistakes against their two very good corners. Basically every game the majority of his team was better than everyone they lined up against. When a school takes the ball out of your theyre telling you all you need to know about a player. Harbaugh even admitted he was hyping him up hoping someone would trade up for the Chargers pick for him. Even in HS at IMG he was at a top 10 HS in the country thats usually top 5 and is a factory for 4 and 5 star college players.
If he can be successful which I think he will because of what the Vikings have good for him. Its nothing personal against him its just that he had no business being a first round QB and somehow landed in arguably the best spot. With the Chargers giving away Allen to the Bears to go along with what they had with Moore and the draft I can see the argument for them.
I do hope Darnold will get a chance though and not have his career defined by being a Jet where no one has been successful
The NFC North is definitely much more difficult but for sure Cousins certainly isnt going to win any track races lol. It would have been more interesting seeing what he could do if he stayed in a more competitive division
Geez the Cardinals weren't that desperate for an outfielder, were they? I mean they passed up on the next guy, who I imagine had gobs of experience and potential even at the time...
I dont think the falcons see Cousins playing for his whole contract. Only those first two years matter - they could release him in 26 and have $35M in dead cap having paid Cousins $100M. Maybe he does great and they want to keep him but I see Penix or someone new behind center in 26.
Geez the Cardinals weren't that desperate for an outfielder, were they? I mean they passed up on the next guy, who I imagine had gobs of experience and potential even at the time...
MLB draft is very unpredictable. The Big Hurt went 7th so 6 teams passed on him and he ended up far better than anyone in the draft. Its really just 20/20 hindsight on that one. Even today a lot of first rounders dont make the MLB and the level of play gap is a lot closer now than it was then.
Here are two times that the Celtics held the first overall pick in the draft and both times it went horribly wrong for the teams that they traded with.
Boston gave up the #1 & #13 picks in the 1980 draft to the Warriors for Robert Parish & the #3 pick. GS picked Joe Barry Carroll (nicknamed Joe Barely Cares) and Ricky Brown with those two picks while Boston chose Kevin McHale at #3. The C’s won the championship within a year while the Warriors were never really that good with their two picks.
Boston owned the 1st pick in the 2017 draft and dealt it to Philly for #3 and a future 1st. The Sixers chose Markelle Fultz at #1 while the C’s chose Jayson Tatum at 3. Fultz ultimately needed time off after having a mental block that affected his jump shot while Tatum tied Kareem for the most 20pt playoff games by a rookie at 10 games, passing by Larry Bird &Lebron.
Romeo Langford was picked by the C’s with that additional pick from Philly and was eventually the centerpiece in a major trade for SA’s Derrick White who helped play a huge part along with Tatum in the C’s winning the 2024 Finals.
Geez the Cardinals weren't that desperate for an outfielder, were they? I mean they passed up on the next guy, who I imagine had gobs of experience and potential even at the time...
MLB draft is very unpredictable. The Big Hurt went 7th so 6 teams passed on him and he ended up far better than anyone in the draft. Its really just 20/20 hindsight on that one. Even today a lot of first rounders dont make the MLB and the level of play gap is a lot closer now than it was then.
No way, not that one...Frank had lots of experience and potential at Auburn (same school Bo Jackson went) while Paul was a kid fresh out of HS. I mean Ben McDonald taken first makes perfect sense if indeed Baltimore really needed a solid starting pitcher but as for #2-#6, Paul Coleman is by far the headscratcher of the bunch. I think one of those other guys also didn't make it to MLB, but like I said, I'm sure people at the time thought, there is no way this kid fresh out of HS would make it big over this beast of a hitter at Auburn and sure enough, their gut instinct was smarter than that of a, eh, who's the one that usually makes the draft picks? Seriously the dude didn't even make it past AA, poor guy
Geez the Cardinals weren't that desperate for an outfielder, were they? I mean they passed up on the next guy, who I imagine had gobs of experience and potential even at the time...
MLB draft is very unpredictable. The Big Hurt went 7th so 6 teams passed on him and he ended up far better than anyone in the draft. Its really just 20/20 hindsight on that one. Even today a lot of first rounders dont make the MLB and the level of play gap is a lot closer now than it was then.
No way, not that one...Frank had lots of experience and potential at Auburn (same school Bo Jackson went) while Paul was a kid fresh out of HS. I mean Ben McDonald taken first makes perfect sense if indeed Baltimore really needed a solid starting pitcher but as for #2-#6, Paul Coleman is by far the headscratcher of the bunch. I think one of those other guys also didn't make it to MLB, but like I said, I'm sure people at the time thought, there is no way this kid fresh out of HS would make it big over this beast of a hitter at Auburn and sure enough, their gut instinct was smarter than that of a, eh, who's the one that usually makes the draft picks? Seriously the dude didn't even make it past AA, poor guy
While Thomas was a beast at Auburn that also gave us Tim Hudson later on its not quite that simple as having experience, especially not back then. Theres plenty of drafts where a HS kid goes first overall like Griffey Jr, Harper, Arod and so on. The Thomas draft 4 teams picked a HS player in front of him.
High school players carry more risk but can also have more upside especially back then. Its not as true today because of the NIL where a lot of the top HS guys are going to college now to get paid at great facilities instead of riding on buses getting paid nothing. Really look at that draft though.
7 first rounders never made the MLB. Of the ones that did only 6 of them played in more than a 1000 games. At the time the draft happened Coleman was considered a 5 tool player with all star potential. The pick looks bad because we know how it all turned out.
The only time you can really say that about MLB draft picks is when a team goes cheap and drafts someone simply based off money which still happens. If you really want to point to a pick, the 2004 Padres taking Matt Bush instead of Verlander or Weaver or Drew. Weaver and Drew both signed for more money than Bush and ironically Verlander ended up signing for just a couple thousand less
While Thomas was a beast at Auburn that also gave us Tim Hudson later on its not quite that simple as having experience, especially not back then. Theres plenty of drafts where a HS kid goes first overall like Griffey Jr, Harper, Arod and so on. The Thomas draft 4 teams picked a HS player in front of him.
High school players carry more risk but can also have more upside especially back then. Its not as true today because of the NIL where a lot of the top HS guys are going to college now to get paid at great facilities instead of riding on buses getting paid nothing. Really look at that draft though.
7 first rounders never made the MLB. Of the ones that did only 6 of them played in more than a 1000 games. At the time the draft happened Coleman was considered a 5 tool player with all star potential. _The pick looks bad because we know how it all turned out. _
The only time you can really say that about MLB draft picks is when a team goes cheap and drafts someone simply based off money which still happens. If you really want to point to a pick, the 2004 Padres taking Matt Bush instead of Verlander or Weaver or Drew. Weaver and Drew both signed for more money than Bush and ironically Verlander ended up signing for just a couple thousand less
Like I said, I wanted to be real careful about not counting hindsight and admittedly I wasn't sure what Coleman was like as a HSer. But for that individual situation I'm still not convinced the risk looked anywhere near worth it at the time Unless of course they thought 1B was already well covered with Pedro Guerrero and needed an OF...then that would make sense. Remember the NL had no DH!
And in other news, I went to my local newspaper archive via newspapers.com to see what the media said about the 1984 NBA draft and the main Associated Press article gave all the attention to Hakeem and Bowie (I guess centers were still REALLY popular back then) and only gave Jordan and those other guys a brief mention in the last couple paragraphs. Yes I know he was College Player of the Year and all that but what did the media at the time think of Jordan's potential? And yes Bowie was a risky glass player (injury risk) but where there other qualified centers at the time?
While Thomas was a beast at Auburn that also gave us Tim Hudson later on its not quite that simple as having experience, especially not back then. Theres plenty of drafts where a HS kid goes first overall like Griffey Jr, Harper, Arod and so on. The Thomas draft 4 teams picked a HS player in front of him.
High school players carry more risk but can also have more upside especially back then. Its not as true today because of the NIL where a lot of the top HS guys are going to college now to get paid at great facilities instead of riding on buses getting paid nothing. Really look at that draft though.
7 first rounders never made the MLB. Of the ones that did only 6 of them played in more than a 1000 games. At the time the draft happened Coleman was considered a 5 tool player with all star potential. _The pick looks bad because we know how it all turned out. _
The only time you can really say that about MLB draft picks is when a team goes cheap and drafts someone simply based off money which still happens. If you really want to point to a pick, the 2004 Padres taking Matt Bush instead of Verlander or Weaver or Drew. Weaver and Drew both signed for more money than Bush and ironically Verlander ended up signing for just a couple thousand less
Like I said, I wanted to be real careful about not counting hindsight and admittedly I wasn't sure what Coleman was like as a HSer. But for that individual situation I'm still not convinced the risk looked anywhere near worth it at the time Unless of course they thought 1B was already well covered with Pedro Guerrero and needed an OF...then that would make sense. Remember the NL had no DH!
And in other news, I went to my local newspaper archive via newspapers.com to see what the media said about the 1984 NBA draft and the main Associated Press article gave all the attention to Hakeem and Bowie (I guess centers were still REALLY popular back then) and only gave Jordan and those other guys a brief mention in the last couple paragraphs. Yes I know he was College Player of the Year and all that but what did the media at the time think of Jordan's potential? And yes Bowie was a risky glass player (injury risk) but where there other qualified centers at the time?
MLB drafts really have to be looked at in a vacuum over other sports. NBA and NFL expect players to play right away and will draft to fill holes. MLB even the generational players will be held down for a year to manipulate their service time. None of the teams draft to fill holes. Some teams and GMs prefer to draft high ceiling HS players with their first pick. They have a much higher miss rate but when they hit its usually something pretty special.
I only casually know the NBA especially back then. I'm sure they definitely regretted not taking Jordan though lol
I only casually know the NBA especially back then. I'm sure they definitely regretted not taking Jordan though lol
Well remember they were already well covered at guard with Clyde Drexler (a HOFer in his own right) and when did people first realize/speculate that Jordan was likely to be among the GOATs (the new kind, not the old kind like Chris Webber's infamous no timeouts blunder; I don't suppose the NBA has an iconic blunder like that?)? Maybe when he had that 37.1 ppg season? Remember it has to be a source from that time period like a newspaper/magazine article at the time...claiming it after the fact doesn't count!! You know Charles Barkley was in that draft, I think(?) he was technically a forward so couldn't they have taken him (I don't know what his potential was like at the time) because I honestly don't see any really qualified centers they could've picked from.
MLB drafts really have to be looked at in a vacuum over other sports. NBA and NFL expect players to play right away and will draft to fill holes. MLB even the generational players will be held down for a year to manipulate their service time. None of the teams draft to fill holes. Some teams and GMs prefer to draft high ceiling HS players with their first pick. They have a much higher miss rate but when they hit its usually something pretty special.
I don't suppose the NFL still has that rule (at least unwritten) that college players can't be taken earlier than their junior/3rd year?
MLB drafts really have to be looked at in a vacuum over other sports. NBA and NFL expect players to play right away and will draft to fill holes. MLB even the generational players will be held down for a year to manipulate their service time. None of the teams draft to fill holes. Some teams and GMs prefer to draft high ceiling HS players with their first pick. They have a much higher miss rate but when they hit its usually something pretty special.
I don't suppose the NFL still has that rule (at least unwritten) that college players can't be taken earlier than their junior/3rd year?
Its still 3 years out of high school as a hard rule. MLB its 3 years or turn 21 if you go to a 4 year school, its different for JUCO schools.
The NFL one makes since to give guys more time to put on muscle with the college strength programs. The MLB one makes no sense other than MLB and the NCAA basically have an agreement that MLB will keep the rule if the NCAA will agree to test out some rule changes for them. The pitch clock was in college years before the MLB.
Interestingly enough though we may be seeing the first teen drafted in the modern NFL in a couple years. Alabama has a stud starting WR that is only 17. He skipped his senior year of HS to go play for them. Hell be draft eligible as a 19 year old.
Vikings passing on Kyle Hamilton to pick Lewis Cine.
Vikings originally had pick #12. Some publications had Hamilton rated as not only the best safety in the draft, but the best "football player".
I was shocked when the Vikings took a safety, they needed more help at cornerback. They got Booth later, but he never played for them either.
Overall, I think trading down is a foolish move.
Former GM Rick Spielmann used to trade down for extra 7th rounders. Hardly any even made the roster. He was hailed as a brilliant draft day guru.
Then with no decent back ups, he let 7 defensive starters go prior to the 2020 season because of salary cap problems.
That's the year Mike Zimmer forgot how to coach defense and was soon fired.
Spielman went too. I would have kept Zimmer and gotten rid of Spielman. Zimmer also didn't want to spend all the money on Kirk Cousins, partially so he could spend it on defense.
I thought Cousins was good, but in the end, the team would have probably been as successful with Keenum.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
In looking bad right from the start I imagine the Packers have some regrets about that ‘89 draft and those 3 guys following that Bust. He was a bust before he was a bust because we all despised him for holding out. All for the best when Braatz was fired paving the way for Wolf who righted that ship.
@bgr said:
In looking bad right from the start I imagine the Packers have some regrets about that ‘89 draft and those 3 guys following that Bust. He was a bust before he was a bust because we all despised him for holding out. All for the best when Braatz was fired paving the way for Wolf who righted that ship.
Who would they be? Was that Mandarich?
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@bgr said:
In looking bad right from the start I imagine the Packers have some regrets about that ‘89 draft and those 3 guys following that Bust. He was a bust before he was a bust because we all despised him for holding out. All for the best when Braatz was fired paving the way for Wolf who righted that ship.
Who would they be? Was that Mandarich?
He was super hyped but when he finally signed and went to camp he was already a joke. It certainly didn’t help him that he immediately dissed GB but the word got out fast. GB was a city then where you would run into packers players at the blockbuster after a game and have a conversation. The word was out fast that Mandarich was nothing but the hype. The whole idea of drafting an offensive lineman that high in the draft was completely foreign to most of us as well.
It goes back to the 1960’s, but the Phillies traded future Hall of Famer, Ferguson Jenkins, for two washed up pitchers, Bob Buel and Larry Jackson. In the the ‘50s they traded Jack Sanford for Rubin Gómez and Vallumy Thomas, an almost never was pitcher and a third string catcher. Gomez had had a 20 game winning season a couple of years before the trade, but nothing after that. Sanford would the solid #2 pitcher, behind Juan Marichal for money years.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Aaaaand there was no one with the Bucs who mentioned that no one is gonna want to play for someone who so flagrantly lied and tricked him in that way? Honestly the ones who made the DUMB Decision were made to walk the plank! (yes I know real life pirates didn't do that but that's not the point)
@Steven59 said:
Don't forget when Cleveland drafted Johnny Manziel in the first round - 22nd overall.
Aren't there some Browns who (starting with our own Tim Couch) wear jerseys with that the names of the QBs that were drafted at or near first who were supposed to "save the franchise" but well...didn't? And you know how sometimes in practice QBs wear red jerseys or vests over top? Well in this case they might as well be the Star Trek kind of red shirts!!
@Estil said:
Aren't there some Browns who (starting with our own Tim Couch) wear jerseys with that the names of the QBs that were drafted at or near first who were supposed to "save the franchise" but well...didn't? And you know how sometimes in practice QBs wear red jerseys or vests over top? Well in this case they might as well be the Star Trek kind of red shirts!!
Oh Jeez, I don't know!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
There have been some NBA draft picks (American born players, foreign born players, black players, white players, 18 year olds just out of high school, 21-22 year olds just out of college, etc.) who are drafted because they are tall [6' 10" or taller]) that possess minimal talent beyond being tall.
Coaches say .................You can't teach height.....................!!!!! (which is so true).
Many times these project draft picks never pan out.
However, sometimes a project does pan out and turns into a very good NBA player (i.e. 7' 3" Hasheem Thabeet, drafted #2 overall in 2009, 7' 0" Darko Milcic, drafted #2 overall in 2003, 6' 11" Kwame Brown, drafted #1 overall in 2001, 7' 0" Greg Odon, drafted #1 overall in 2007, 6' 11"LaRue Martin, drafted #1 overall in 1972).
When I read that ^^ it seems like Greg Odon is being labeled a project which turned into a very good NBA player. I must be thinking of another 7' center who played for OSU, was drafted 1st overall even though everyone knew his knees were dust, and was almost immediately on the shelf. The trailblazers shouldn't be allowed to draft any 7' centers anymore. Just don't do it Portland.
I'm pretty sure when Robin Ventura STUPIDLY tried to pick a fight with Nolan Ryan, I think everyone knew right away that this was NOT going to turn out good for Robin. And sure enough, Nolan showed him real quick DON'T Mess With Texas!!
As a Mets fan I have a lot of bad trades to choose from, but the one that puzzled me even as a 10-year-old was trading Rusty Staub, the best offensive player on a pitching rich, offensively weak team, for a washed up Mickey Lolich.
@PaulMaul said:
As a Mets fan I have a lot of bad trades to choose from, but the one that puzzled me even as a 10-year-old was trading Rusty Staub, the best offensive player on a pitching rich, offensively weak team, for a washed up Mickey Lolich.
@PaulMaul said:
As a Mets fan I have a lot of bad trades to choose from, but the one that puzzled me even as a 10-year-old was trading Rusty Staub, the best offensive player on a pitching rich, offensively weak team, for a washed up Mickey Lolich.
So why did they do that?
In those days the Mets would do ANYTHING other than pay a guy. In addition to not being afraid to stand up to management, Rusty was also about to be a 10/5 guy which would have given him more control of his destiny. He had also just had a 105 RBI season so hey would have had to (gasp) give him more money (free agency had just kicked in). The Mets brass convinced themselves that Mike Vail could replace Rusty and so got rid of him. What they got back was likely an afterthought.
Padres added another one as Preller is the king of overpaying in trades. Preller traded away the number 3-5 prospect in all of baseball again for a well below value return as always. They would be the Dodgers if he would just stop getting ripped off in trades
Here's a dumb decision for ya...to this date, Babe Ruth in 1926 remains the only time the World Series ever ended with someone caught stealing. Why did Ruth do this? How did it at all make sense? Yes he was national larger than life hero but this was clearly his goat moment.
@Estil said:
I'm pretty sure when Robin Ventura STUPIDLY tried to pick a fight with Nolan Ryan, I think everyone knew right away that this was NOT going to turn out good for Robin. And sure enough, Nolan showed him real quick DON'T Mess With Texas!!
I think everyone was shocked at the outcome
You had a prime aged young man going after a grizzled veteran who was probably 46 at the time? This was early 90's when 46 something year old guys were actually kind of old, Ventura embarrassed himself and the outcome was a surprise to everyone
How about then USFL (the last rival "major league" football ever had) for whatever reason, moving their games from spring (where they had a nice alternate market and there was a second "major league" of football action during the NFL off-season) to the fall...they had to know that was pretty much a death sentence so why did they do it?
Do you truly not know the impetus behind that "genius" move?
No...all I know is they should've just left well enough alone and remained a spring league. I ain't no fancy commissioner or owner or GM or anything like that, I'm just another mild mannered John Q. Public who lives in a modest apt in an average community just trying to use some plain ol' horse sense.
Another NBA draft pick disaster was 20 year old, 6'11' Chris Washburn, the #3 pick of the 1986 NBA draft (behind #1 pick Brad Daugherty and #2 pick Len Bias [RIP]).
Washburn played at NC State for Jim Valvano. His SAT score was between 400-500 (400 was the automatic low score) and he was admitted to the school because he played basketball. In college he was arrested for stealing a stereo, spent 46 hours in jail, was given a 5 year suspended jail sentence and was placed on 5 years of probation.
In addition to stealing, he was also a drug addict (cocaine).
The Warriors knew of his troubles yet drafted him anyway. His time in the NBA was short and he was banned from the NBA after multiple drug violations.
@CheckYourDiaper said:
When I read that ^^ it seems like Greg Odon is being labeled a project which turned into a very good NBA player. I must be thinking of another 7' center who played for OSU, was drafted 1st overall even though everyone knew his knees were dust, and was almost immediately on the shelf. The trailblazers shouldn't be allowed to draft any 7' centers anymore. Just don't do it Portland.
Saw (and met) Sam Bowie play in high school - my cousin was on the team. Sad that he’s become essentially a punchline but can’t really argue with the outcome. To be fair, he was definitely a different situation than Odom - like you said, Odom didn’t look comfortable walking when he was drafted. But the results are the results, and unfortunately Bowie didn’t pan out in the NBA.
Always loved how the team looked like they were all the same height except for the one gigantic exception in the middle
Do you truly not know the impetus behind that "genius" move?
No...all I know is they should've just left well enough alone and remained a spring league. I ain't no fancy commissioner or owner or GM or anything like that, I'm just another mild mannered John Q. Public who lives in a modest apt in an average community just trying to use some plain ol' horse sense.
Common sense usually wins out, except in the world we now live.
You can do a quick Google search to get the basics for the answer to your question. ESPN did a 30 for 30 on it in much greater detail entitled "Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL? (2009)
It was a great watch. Sometimes the universe tells us what's going to happen long before it happens. We just choose not to listen.
@CheckYourDiaper said:
Sam Bowie certainly wasn’t terrible or any sort of flop. Bad luck and lots of regret there I’m sure.
I imagine they knew he was a risky glass player but I like I tried to ask before, were there any other centers they could've chosen?
As far as the thread topic goes, I don’t think Bowie qualifies. He was a clear high draft pick and obviously no one knew what MJ would become so I don’t think he really fits the thread content. I only brought him up in relation to Odon and Portland’s history of drafting centers. Odon definitely qualifies as an immediate “huh?” pick for many, but not Bowie.
Looking at the players that were drafted that year, I don’t see a better C option for Portland (but I’m no expert).
@countdouglas said:
You can do a quick Google search to get the basics for the answer to your question. ESPN did a 30 for 30 on it in much greater detail entitled "Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL? (2009)
But my theory is basically correct, right? If they had left well enough alone and stayed a spring league, they could've kept going as a rival major league. In fact, I think that's the last time any serious attempt has been made to start a league that was seeking/intending major league status. Like, there's today supposedly another ABA and USFL or something but they made clear up front they're not interested in major league status.
Do you truly not know the impetus behind that "genius" move?
If you're talking about the guy I think you're talking about then yeah, I'd say a perfect example of someone who should've stayed in his own lane. Damn it, Jim...he was a casino guy, not a football guy!
Comments
The Vikings are talking like Darnold will start the season as #1.
I have a feeling he might play very well.
Not sure why you, or anyone else for that matter, is down on McCarthy. We will see soon enough (next year would be fine) if he can win in the pros.
On Cousins, he did turn down more money from the Jets to come to Minnesota, but you know, the Jets.
I liked Cousins, but for him to be successful, you have to give him a pocket, for most of his time here, the center and guards were bad pass blockers.
The reason why the college fans dont like McCarthy is because hes a game manager. He averages under 200 yards passing a game for his career at Michigan. When Michigan needed something done they put the ball in the hands of Corum or Edwards not McCarthy. Michigan during his time there had at least a top 15 roster every year and usually was more like 7-9. OSU was the only team in the conference with a better roster and PSU had a significant gap for 3. He didnt even throw the ball against PSU because Michigan didnt want him to be able to make mistakes against their two very good corners. Basically every game the majority of his team was better than everyone they lined up against. When a school takes the ball out of your theyre telling you all you need to know about a player. Harbaugh even admitted he was hyping him up hoping someone would trade up for the Chargers pick for him. Even in HS at IMG he was at a top 10 HS in the country thats usually top 5 and is a factory for 4 and 5 star college players.
If he can be successful which I think he will because of what the Vikings have good for him. Its nothing personal against him its just that he had no business being a first round QB and somehow landed in arguably the best spot. With the Chargers giving away Allen to the Bears to go along with what they had with Moore and the draft I can see the argument for them.
I do hope Darnold will get a chance though and not have his career defined by being a Jet where no one has been successful
The NFC North is definitely much more difficult but for sure Cousins certainly isnt going to win any track races lol. It would have been more interesting seeing what he could do if he stayed in a more competitive division
Fire AJ Preller
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Major_League_Baseball_draft
This poor guy, Paul Coleman, was drafted sixth right out of HS (I don't know what his HS stats were) and didn't get higher than AA.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=colema002pau
Geez the Cardinals weren't that desperate for an outfielder, were they? I mean they passed up on the next guy, who I imagine had gobs of experience and potential even at the time...
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I dont think the falcons see Cousins playing for his whole contract. Only those first two years matter - they could release him in 26 and have $35M in dead cap having paid Cousins $100M. Maybe he does great and they want to keep him but I see Penix or someone new behind center in 26.
MLB draft is very unpredictable. The Big Hurt went 7th so 6 teams passed on him and he ended up far better than anyone in the draft. Its really just 20/20 hindsight on that one. Even today a lot of first rounders dont make the MLB and the level of play gap is a lot closer now than it was then.
Fire AJ Preller
Here are two times that the Celtics held the first overall pick in the draft and both times it went horribly wrong for the teams that they traded with.
Boston gave up the #1 & #13 picks in the 1980 draft to the Warriors for Robert Parish & the #3 pick. GS picked Joe Barry Carroll (nicknamed Joe Barely Cares) and Ricky Brown with those two picks while Boston chose Kevin McHale at #3. The C’s won the championship within a year while the Warriors were never really that good with their two picks.
Boston owned the 1st pick in the 2017 draft and dealt it to Philly for #3 and a future 1st. The Sixers chose Markelle Fultz at #1 while the C’s chose Jayson Tatum at 3. Fultz ultimately needed time off after having a mental block that affected his jump shot while Tatum tied Kareem for the most 20pt playoff games by a rookie at 10 games, passing by Larry Bird &Lebron.
Romeo Langford was picked by the C’s with that additional pick from Philly and was eventually the centerpiece in a major trade for SA’s Derrick White who helped play a huge part along with Tatum in the C’s winning the 2024 Finals.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
No way, not that one...Frank had lots of experience and potential at Auburn (same school Bo Jackson went) while Paul was a kid fresh out of HS. I mean Ben McDonald taken first makes perfect sense if indeed Baltimore really needed a solid starting pitcher but as for #2-#6, Paul Coleman is by far the headscratcher of the bunch. I think one of those other guys also didn't make it to MLB, but like I said, I'm sure people at the time thought, there is no way this kid fresh out of HS would make it big over this beast of a hitter at Auburn and sure enough, their gut instinct was smarter than that of a, eh, who's the one that usually makes the draft picks? Seriously the dude didn't even make it past AA, poor guy
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
While Thomas was a beast at Auburn that also gave us Tim Hudson later on its not quite that simple as having experience, especially not back then. Theres plenty of drafts where a HS kid goes first overall like Griffey Jr, Harper, Arod and so on. The Thomas draft 4 teams picked a HS player in front of him.
High school players carry more risk but can also have more upside especially back then. Its not as true today because of the NIL where a lot of the top HS guys are going to college now to get paid at great facilities instead of riding on buses getting paid nothing. Really look at that draft though.
7 first rounders never made the MLB. Of the ones that did only 6 of them played in more than a 1000 games. At the time the draft happened Coleman was considered a 5 tool player with all star potential. The pick looks bad because we know how it all turned out.
The only time you can really say that about MLB draft picks is when a team goes cheap and drafts someone simply based off money which still happens. If you really want to point to a pick, the 2004 Padres taking Matt Bush instead of Verlander or Weaver or Drew. Weaver and Drew both signed for more money than Bush and ironically Verlander ended up signing for just a couple thousand less
Fire AJ Preller
Like I said, I wanted to be real careful about not counting hindsight and admittedly I wasn't sure what Coleman was like as a HSer. But for that individual situation I'm still not convinced the risk looked anywhere near worth it at the time Unless of course they thought 1B was already well covered with Pedro Guerrero and needed an OF...then that would make sense. Remember the NL had no DH!
And in other news, I went to my local newspaper archive via newspapers.com to see what the media said about the 1984 NBA draft and the main Associated Press article gave all the attention to Hakeem and Bowie (I guess centers were still REALLY popular back then) and only gave Jordan and those other guys a brief mention in the last couple paragraphs. Yes I know he was College Player of the Year and all that but what did the media at the time think of Jordan's potential? And yes Bowie was a risky glass player (injury risk) but where there other qualified centers at the time?
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
MLB drafts really have to be looked at in a vacuum over other sports. NBA and NFL expect players to play right away and will draft to fill holes. MLB even the generational players will be held down for a year to manipulate their service time. None of the teams draft to fill holes. Some teams and GMs prefer to draft high ceiling HS players with their first pick. They have a much higher miss rate but when they hit its usually something pretty special.
I only casually know the NBA especially back then. I'm sure they definitely regretted not taking Jordan though lol
Fire AJ Preller
Well remember they were already well covered at guard with Clyde Drexler (a HOFer in his own right) and when did people first realize/speculate that Jordan was likely to be among the GOATs (the new kind, not the old kind like Chris Webber's infamous no timeouts blunder; I don't suppose the NBA has an iconic blunder like that?)? Maybe when he had that 37.1 ppg season? Remember it has to be a source from that time period like a newspaper/magazine article at the time...claiming it after the fact doesn't count!! You know Charles Barkley was in that draft, I think(?) he was technically a forward so couldn't they have taken him (I don't know what his potential was like at the time) because I honestly don't see any really qualified centers they could've picked from.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I don't suppose the NFL still has that rule (at least unwritten) that college players can't be taken earlier than their junior/3rd year?
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Its still 3 years out of high school as a hard rule. MLB its 3 years or turn 21 if you go to a 4 year school, its different for JUCO schools.
The NFL one makes since to give guys more time to put on muscle with the college strength programs. The MLB one makes no sense other than MLB and the NCAA basically have an agreement that MLB will keep the rule if the NCAA will agree to test out some rule changes for them. The pitch clock was in college years before the MLB.
Interestingly enough though we may be seeing the first teen drafted in the modern NFL in a couple years. Alabama has a stud starting WR that is only 17. He skipped his senior year of HS to go play for them. Hell be draft eligible as a 19 year old.
Fire AJ Preller
Vikings passing on Kyle Hamilton to pick Lewis Cine.
Vikings originally had pick #12. Some publications had Hamilton rated as not only the best safety in the draft, but the best "football player".
I was shocked when the Vikings took a safety, they needed more help at cornerback. They got Booth later, but he never played for them either.
Overall, I think trading down is a foolish move.
Former GM Rick Spielmann used to trade down for extra 7th rounders. Hardly any even made the roster. He was hailed as a brilliant draft day guru.
Then with no decent back ups, he let 7 defensive starters go prior to the 2020 season because of salary cap problems.
That's the year Mike Zimmer forgot how to coach defense and was soon fired.
Spielman went too. I would have kept Zimmer and gotten rid of Spielman. Zimmer also didn't want to spend all the money on Kirk Cousins, partially so he could spend it on defense.
I thought Cousins was good, but in the end, the team would have probably been as successful with Keenum.
In looking bad right from the start I imagine the Packers have some regrets about that ‘89 draft and those 3 guys following that Bust. He was a bust before he was a bust because we all despised him for holding out. All for the best when Braatz was fired paving the way for Wolf who righted that ship.
Who would they be? Was that Mandarich?
He was super hyped but when he finally signed and went to camp he was already a joke. It certainly didn’t help him that he immediately dissed GB but the word got out fast. GB was a city then where you would run into packers players at the blockbuster after a game and have a conversation. The word was out fast that Mandarich was nothing but the hype. The whole idea of drafting an offensive lineman that high in the draft was completely foreign to most of us as well.
Boy are these two guys easy to get mixed up!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Marinovich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Mandarich
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
It goes back to the 1960’s, but the Phillies traded future Hall of Famer, Ferguson Jenkins, for two washed up pitchers, Bob Buel and Larry Jackson. In the the ‘50s they traded Jack Sanford for Rubin Gómez and Vallumy Thomas, an almost never was pitcher and a third string catcher. Gomez had had a 20 game winning season a couple of years before the trade, but nothing after that. Sanford would the solid #2 pitcher, behind Juan Marichal for money years.
I've never liked the Rudy Gobert trade with Utah.
Just felt they gave up way too much and Walker Kessler is comparable statistically on a per 36-minute basis.
Gobert wasn't on the court a lot of the time when France made a good run at this year's Olympics. Basically, they benched him.
T-Wolves GM is a wheeler and dealer and I do like what he's done since that trade.
Erik
I bet if officialjaguargator9 ever does a Bo Jackson video, this would REALLY be among the Dumbest Decisions!
Bo Jackson was tricked by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers into losing his senior year's eligibly of college baseball:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Jackson#Professional_sports_career
Aaaaand there was no one with the Bucs who mentioned that no one is gonna want to play for someone who so flagrantly lied and tricked him in that way? Honestly the ones who made the DUMB Decision were made to walk the plank! (yes I know real life pirates didn't do that but that's not the point)
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Don't forget when Cleveland drafted Johnny Manziel in the first round - 22nd overall.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
How about when the Browns picked QB Spergon Winn with the 183rd pick instead of Tom Brady (199th pick) in the 2000 draft!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Aren't there some Browns who (starting with our own Tim Couch) wear jerseys with that the names of the QBs that were drafted at or near first who were supposed to "save the franchise" but well...didn't? And you know how sometimes in practice QBs wear red jerseys or vests over top? Well in this case they might as well be the Star Trek kind of red shirts!!
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Oh Jeez, I don't know!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
There have been some NBA draft picks (American born players, foreign born players, black players, white players, 18 year olds just out of high school, 21-22 year olds just out of college, etc.) who are drafted because they are tall [6' 10" or taller]) that possess minimal talent beyond being tall.
Coaches say .................You can't teach height.....................!!!!! (which is so true).
Many times these project draft picks never pan out.
However, sometimes a project does pan out and turns into a very good NBA player (i.e. 7' 3" Hasheem Thabeet, drafted #2 overall in 2009, 7' 0" Darko Milcic, drafted #2 overall in 2003, 6' 11" Kwame Brown, drafted #1 overall in 2001, 7' 0" Greg Odon, drafted #1 overall in 2007, 6' 11"LaRue Martin, drafted #1 overall in 1972).
When I read that ^^ it seems like Greg Odon is being labeled a project which turned into a very good NBA player. I must be thinking of another 7' center who played for OSU, was drafted 1st overall even though everyone knew his knees were dust, and was almost immediately on the shelf. The trailblazers shouldn't be allowed to draft any 7' centers anymore. Just don't do it Portland.
I'm pretty sure when Robin Ventura STUPIDLY tried to pick a fight with Nolan Ryan, I think everyone knew right away that this was NOT going to turn out good for Robin. And sure enough, Nolan showed him real quick DON'T Mess With Texas!!
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
As a Mets fan I have a lot of bad trades to choose from, but the one that puzzled me even as a 10-year-old was trading Rusty Staub, the best offensive player on a pitching rich, offensively weak team, for a washed up Mickey Lolich.
So why did they do that?
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
In those days the Mets would do ANYTHING other than pay a guy. In addition to not being afraid to stand up to management, Rusty was also about to be a 10/5 guy which would have given him more control of his destiny. He had also just had a 105 RBI season so hey would have had to (gasp) give him more money (free agency had just kicked in). The Mets brass convinced themselves that Mike Vail could replace Rusty and so got rid of him. What they got back was likely an afterthought.
Padres added another one as Preller is the king of overpaying in trades. Preller traded away the number 3-5 prospect in all of baseball again for a well below value return as always. They would be the Dodgers if he would just stop getting ripped off in trades
Fire AJ Preller
Here's a dumb decision for ya...to this date, Babe Ruth in 1926 remains the only time the World Series ever ended with someone caught stealing. Why did Ruth do this? How did it at all make sense? Yes he was national larger than life hero but this was clearly his goat moment.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I think everyone was shocked at the outcome
You had a prime aged young man going after a grizzled veteran who was probably 46 at the time? This was early 90's when 46 something year old guys were actually kind of old, Ventura embarrassed himself and the outcome was a surprise to everyone
How about then USFL (the last rival "major league" football ever had) for whatever reason, moving their games from spring (where they had a nice alternate market and there was a second "major league" of football action during the NFL off-season) to the fall...they had to know that was pretty much a death sentence so why did they do it?
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Lol!
Do you truly not know the impetus behind that "genius" move?
Stable. Genius.
No...all I know is they should've just left well enough alone and remained a spring league. I ain't no fancy commissioner or owner or GM or anything like that, I'm just another mild mannered John Q. Public who lives in a modest apt in an average community just trying to use some plain ol' horse sense.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Another NBA draft pick disaster was 20 year old, 6'11' Chris Washburn, the #3 pick of the 1986 NBA draft (behind #1 pick Brad Daugherty and #2 pick Len Bias [RIP]).
Washburn played at NC State for Jim Valvano. His SAT score was between 400-500 (400 was the automatic low score) and he was admitted to the school because he played basketball. In college he was arrested for stealing a stereo, spent 46 hours in jail, was given a 5 year suspended jail sentence and was placed on 5 years of probation.
In addition to stealing, he was also a drug addict (cocaine).
The Warriors knew of his troubles yet drafted him anyway. His time in the NBA was short and he was banned from the NBA after multiple drug violations.
Saw (and met) Sam Bowie play in high school - my cousin was on the team. Sad that he’s become essentially a punchline but can’t really argue with the outcome. To be fair, he was definitely a different situation than Odom - like you said, Odom didn’t look comfortable walking when he was drafted. But the results are the results, and unfortunately Bowie didn’t pan out in the NBA.
Always loved how the team looked like they were all the same height except for the one gigantic exception in the middle
Jim
Sam Bowie certainly wasn’t terrible or any sort of flop. Bad luck and lots of regret there I’m sure.
Paul Grant was a 1st rounder out of WI that no one thought would transition to the NBA… and didn’t.
Good point… I should have said “unfortunately Bowie didn’t pan out in the NBA as well as the guy drafted right after him.”
Jim
Remember who was after Odon too. Durant.. Both sting but which was worse is difficult to process.
I imagine they knew he was a risky glass player but I like I tried to ask before, were there any other centers they could've chosen?
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Common sense usually wins out, except in the world we now live.
You can do a quick Google search to get the basics for the answer to your question. ESPN did a 30 for 30 on it in much greater detail entitled "Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL? (2009)
It was a great watch. Sometimes the universe tells us what's going to happen long before it happens. We just choose not to listen.
As far as the thread topic goes, I don’t think Bowie qualifies. He was a clear high draft pick and obviously no one knew what MJ would become so I don’t think he really fits the thread content. I only brought him up in relation to Odon and Portland’s history of drafting centers. Odon definitely qualifies as an immediate “huh?” pick for many, but not Bowie.
Looking at the players that were drafted that year, I don’t see a better C option for Portland (but I’m no expert).
Jim
But my theory is basically correct, right? If they had left well enough alone and stayed a spring league, they could've kept going as a rival major league. In fact, I think that's the last time any serious attempt has been made to start a league that was seeking/intending major league status. Like, there's today supposedly another ABA and USFL or something but they made clear up front they're not interested in major league status.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
NHL:
Wayne Gretzky from Edmonton to LA. Was horrible on hockey fans all across Canada but great for the USA.
I thought given the circumstances there was hardly any other choice.
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
If you're talking about the guy I think you're talking about then yeah, I'd say a perfect example of someone who should've stayed in his own lane. Damn it, Jim...he was a casino guy, not a football guy!
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars