Some coin collectors look at old holders just as book collectors look at first editions. Yes, the words and story are the same in the first edition as in the many, many printings afterwards, but a first edition that has not been cracked out of its dust jacket and is still in fine condition, is worth far more than a pristine copy of a recent printing. A White Label Rattler is a PCGS first edition. Only a few were holdered that way and only a few of those survive.
Congratulations EliteCollection on your PCGS Gen 1.0.
Perhaps someday we will have a certification service to identify and grade the holders.
I can see it now “Gen 2.0, scuff on holder, hologram scratched, 7.8/10”…..😉
@Ebeneezer said:
And there's nearly 5000 in a higher grade at PCGS. Wow some people are just foolish. That money would definitely buy one of them.
I was taught by my father that if you don’t have anything nice to say about someone it’s best to keep your mouth shut. Unfortunately in this day and age it’s very easy to say inappropriate things anonymously behind our computers and there are little to no consequences.
And if you are going to make inappropriate comments your comments ought to be fact based.
@Ebeneezer said:
And there's nearly 5000 in a higher grade at PCGS. Wow some people are just foolish. That money would definitely buy one of them.
I was taught by my father that if you don’t have anything nice to say about someone it’s best to keep your mouth shut. Unfortunately in this day and age it’s very easy to say inappropriate things anonymously behind our computers and there are little to no consequences.
And if you are going to make inappropriate comments your comments ought to be fact based.
Not just an inappropriate comment, but also an ignorant and uninformed comment. I have a few additional worthy adjectives but I'll try to not get jailed.
@bammbamm Nice analogy to rare books and first editions!
@EliteCollection said:
Yes, I'm foolish. I'm a fool of an investor to not realize that one of the 5000 higher graded coins is a much better investment than this coin.
There has always been a disconnect among coin people between market value and their personal value. It can be toners, old holders, moderns, or anything else and you will find someone saying you wasted money because they would not pay that much. There are people that can realize a coin is worth $x even if they wouldn’t pay that amount. Pay more attention to those people and less to the others.
@EliteCollection said:
Yes, I'm foolish. I'm a fool of an investor to not realize that one of the 5000 higher graded coins is a much better investment than this coin.
There has always been a disconnect among coin people between market value and their personal value. It can be toners, old holders, moderns, or anything else and you will find someone saying you wasted money because they would not pay that much. There are people that can realize a coin is worth $x even if they wouldn’t pay that amount. Pay more attention to those people and less to the others.
Based on his posts here and in another coin forum, I think @EliteCollection already does a vey fine job at that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I only have two rattlers and I paid a HUGE premium for both and BOTH are green CAC stickered. I must confess that I bought them more for their technical attributes but I KNOW that the holder and the bean are what really fueled the price. This was 10+ years ago, so I'd be more than 'OK' if I sold them, today.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
There is really more of a theme here that involves collecting the development and progression of Third Party Grading through slabs… when the slabs were produced and issued as well as quantity and the surviving population. Placing a value on that is fine and it is just different as in real different than just looking at the coin and the assigned grade.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@Ebeneezer I always get a chuckle out of it when other coin collectors make fun of slab collectors. They are so obtuse they don't understand that they collect shiny, metal disks that the average public (people like my wife) thinks is crazy when they find out how much we spent on a "penny ". Collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. Don't try to belittle people just because it's not your bag.
The question is will old holder/plastic collecting stand the test of time concerning value retention. The answer is nobody knows for sure.
We do know that plastic is not difficult to manufacture, or as historically significant to the layman as a pioneer gold piece which can be purchased at that pricing level in decent grade.
I think the early holders are worthy of a significant premium. It's always a question of degree.
Not a hater and I do understand the allure of collectible plastic, I mean anything is collectible. The coins we buy are just rare commodities whose only true value is the value we place on them. Even gold itself is a speculation. But to be absolutely frank I find rattler holders annoying, and won’t go out of my way to buy them.
Reason 1: they don’t fit well into standard PCGS boxes.
Reason 2: sending one in for regrade feels like some kinda dumbass move
Reason 3: Dealers charge more for ‘em
Reason 4: CAC seems to be more lenient on OGH’s and rattlers
Reason 5: Rotated coins. Lots of rotated coins.
That said I own a couple, but I sure as heck didn’t pay extra for what’s in ‘em.
@renomedphys said:
Not a hater and I do understand the allure of collectible plastic, I mean anything is collectible. The coins we buy are just rare commodities whose only true value is the value we place on them. Even gold itself is a speculation. But to be absolutely frank I find rattler holders annoying, and won’t go out of my way to buy them.
Reason 1: they don’t fit well into standard PCGS boxes.
Reason 2: sending one in for regrade feels like some kinda dumbass move
If someone sends one of these rare holder coins to cac in "crossover" shouldn't they just refuse to crack the coin out? Like the tree man who refuses to take down a perfectly healthy oak, sugar maple, etc. that poses no threat to anyone and is a huge asset to the property?
If it were me, I'd tell the submitter there is far more value in the old holder than he can imagine.
A common 1900-O Morgan MS63. The bid is already up to $4,550.
It will be interesting to see what it sells for.
Full disclosure: Not my coin and I'm not a bidder.
Only 6350
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I bought $10,000 of NVDA stock for my daughter in 2005. Now worth $1.4 million. She still wants me to pay for my grandson’s nursery school because she does not want to sell any of HER NVDA stock.
Ok, so it is a common date MS64. I think I paid about $500 for essentially the same quality in an MS63 1904 Double Eagle graded by NGC. At least I see no discernible difference.
@oreville said:
I bought $10,000 of NVDA stock for my daughter in 2005. Now worth $1.4 million. She still wants me to pay for my grandson’s nursery school because she does not want to sell any of HER NVDA stock.
Now that is the difference between a good investment and a nice coin.
@oreville said:
I bought $10,000 of NVDA stock for my daughter in 2005. Now worth $1.4 million. She still wants me to pay for my grandson’s nursery school because she does not want to sell any of HER NVDA stock.
Now that is the difference between a good investment and a nice coin.
I had to sell MY NVDA to pay fir my daughters’s wedding in 2020 so I missed out on the good part of the “good” investment but held onto my gold coins.
@BillJones said:
I collect coins, not slabs. A shot MS-64 in an MS-63 holder, which contains the most common date in the $20 Liberty series, now rates a big premium. Not for me.
It's all relative. If you have stupid money, you have options other people cannot conceive of and there must be under bidders for that coin for it to be so expensive. Obviously, the person who bought it is of sound mind and will enjoy owning it. Congratulations and thanks for the image.
@oreville said:
I bought $10,000 of NVDA stock for my daughter in 2005. Now worth $1.4 million. She still wants me to pay for my grandson’s nursery school because she does not want to sell any of HER NVDA stock.
Depending on when in 2005 you bought it, it should be with somewhere between $5M and $9M today.
The hardest (but not necessarily prudent) thing was not selling it all those years!
Comments
There is a website: https://oldslabholders.com, that is a valuable resource regarding old holders of all brands, including census of some holders. There is also a thread about PCGS White Label Rattlers on this forum that began in March of 2017: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/977463/the-official-pcgs-white-label-rattler-census-71-listed-as-of-11-22-19#latest. Both offer a wealth of knowledge on this subject.
And there's nearly 5000 in a higher grade at PCGS. Wow some people are just foolish. That money would definitely buy one of them.
Yes, I'm foolish. I'm a fool of an investor to not realize that one of the 5000 higher graded coins is a much better investment than this coin.
Follow me on MyCollect!
You should see his rare date $20's.....
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
You should have more facts at hand before you label someone whom you don’t know, a “fool”. That is, if you feel compelled to do it at all.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Some coin collectors look at old holders just as book collectors look at first editions. Yes, the words and story are the same in the first edition as in the many, many printings afterwards, but a first edition that has not been cracked out of its dust jacket and is still in fine condition, is worth far more than a pristine copy of a recent printing. A White Label Rattler is a PCGS first edition. Only a few were holdered that way and only a few of those survive.
Congratulations EliteCollection on your PCGS Gen 1.0.
And his common dates, too, for thet matter.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
For those interested, there is a PCGS Gen 1.1 White Label Rattler currently on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/405906600804
A common 1900-O Morgan MS63. The bid is already up to $4,550.
It will be interesting to see what it sells for.
Full disclosure: Not my coin and I'm not a bidder.
Perhaps someday we will have a certification service to identify and grade the holders.
I can see it now “Gen 2.0, scuff on holder, hologram scratched, 7.8/10”…..😉
I was taught by my father that if you don’t have anything nice to say about someone it’s best to keep your mouth shut. Unfortunately in this day and age it’s very easy to say inappropriate things anonymously behind our computers and there are little to no consequences.
And if you are going to make inappropriate comments your comments ought to be fact based.
Not just an inappropriate comment, but also an ignorant and uninformed comment. I have a few additional worthy adjectives but I'll try to not get jailed.
@bammbamm Nice analogy to rare books and first editions!
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
There has always been a disconnect among coin people between market value and their personal value. It can be toners, old holders, moderns, or anything else and you will find someone saying you wasted money because they would not pay that much. There are people that can realize a coin is worth $x even if they wouldn’t pay that amount. Pay more attention to those people and less to the others.
People also said I was foolish to buy gold for $300 in 2000. Why would anyone pay $300 for an ounce of rock?! 😃
Follow me on MyCollect!
Based on his posts here and in another coin forum, I think @EliteCollection already does a vey fine job at that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
.
.
Is this the same or a later generation?
I only have two rattlers and I paid a HUGE premium for both and BOTH are green CAC stickered. I must confess that I bought them more for their technical attributes but I KNOW that the holder and the bean are what really fueled the price. This was 10+ years ago, so I'd be more than 'OK' if I sold them, today.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
That beautiful coin is a Gen 1.2 Green Rattler (so a later generation than the original coin to this thread).
That’s a later one, I look at the fives, the shape of the fives give it away.
My YouTube Channel
There is really more of a theme here that involves collecting the development and progression of Third Party Grading through slabs… when the slabs were produced and issued as well as quantity and the surviving population. Placing a value on that is fine and it is just different as in real different than just looking at the coin and the assigned grade.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@Ebeneezer I always get a chuckle out of it when other coin collectors make fun of slab collectors. They are so obtuse they don't understand that they collect shiny, metal disks that the average public (people like my wife) thinks is crazy when they find out how much we spent on a "penny ". Collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. Don't try to belittle people just because it's not your bag.
Philippians 4:4-7
The question is will old holder/plastic collecting stand the test of time concerning value retention. The answer is nobody knows for sure.
We do know that plastic is not difficult to manufacture, or as historically significant to the layman as a pioneer gold piece which can be purchased at that pricing level in decent grade.
I think the early holders are worthy of a significant premium. It's always a question of degree.
I got myself another Gen 1.0 white rattler. Don't hate me but I paid a lot more than what the coin is worth.
Follow me on MyCollect!
Congrats @EliteCollection.
No need to buy these over priced slabs. Please go collect pennies
(No offense to my penny collector friends)
I too like old holders, it's no early White label
108 cert, but I'm happy with this crusty example.
and i love the white coin!
By PCGS only ?
Not a hater and I do understand the allure of collectible plastic, I mean anything is collectible. The coins we buy are just rare commodities whose only true value is the value we place on them. Even gold itself is a speculation. But to be absolutely frank I find rattler holders annoying, and won’t go out of my way to buy them.
Reason 1: they don’t fit well into standard PCGS boxes.
Reason 2: sending one in for regrade feels like some kinda dumbass move
Reason 3: Dealers charge more for ‘em
Reason 4: CAC seems to be more lenient on OGH’s and rattlers
Reason 5: Rotated coins. Lots of rotated coins.
That said I own a couple, but I sure as heck didn’t pay extra for what’s in ‘em.
Empty Nest Collection
No. 5,500 is the estimated number of pieces surviving in MS65/better.
While that is their listed estimate, they have already graded over 7,000 1904 $20 in 65 and better at PCGS alone.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1904-20/9045
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Yes, that does make the estimate look low but many are submitted multiple times in hopes of a big payday.
Sounds like there should be a Coin Holder forum for those that buy the holder and not the coin.
@EliteCollectiin is having a lot of fun with these vintage slabs!
I think he will get more collectors gawking at his old holders than his ultra rare and top graded coins at the shows! LOL.
I know first hand how excited collectors are to view my black NGC slabbed $20 Saints.
If someone sends one of these rare holder coins to cac in "crossover" shouldn't they just refuse to crack the coin out? Like the tree man who refuses to take down a perfectly healthy oak, sugar maple, etc. that poses no threat to anyone and is a huge asset to the property?
If it were me, I'd tell the submitter there is far more value in the old holder than he can imagine.
Only 6350
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I estimate that the GC sticker is covering about $2000 worth of plastic.
Smitten with DBLCs.
How much would that money invested in a stock index fund be worth?
The S&P 500 has had roughly a 738% increase since January 2003. Gold has had a 929% increase in the same time frame.
Studies have actually shown gold has performed similarly to stock indexes like the S&P over the last two or so decades.
I bought $10,000 of NVDA stock for my daughter in 2005. Now worth $1.4 million. She still wants me to pay for my grandson’s nursery school because she does not want to sell any of HER NVDA stock.
Ok, so it is a common date MS64. I think I paid about $500 for essentially the same quality in an MS63 1904 Double Eagle graded by NGC. At least I see no discernible difference.
Now that is the difference between a good investment and a nice coin.
I had to sell MY NVDA to pay fir my daughters’s wedding in 2020 so I missed out on the good part of the “good” investment but held onto my gold coins.
@EliteCollection needs to buy some of my coins!
It's all relative. If you have stupid money, you have options other people cannot conceive of and there must be under bidders for that coin for it to be so expensive. Obviously, the person who bought it is of sound mind and will enjoy owning it. Congratulations and thanks for the image.
Depending on when in 2005 you bought it, it should be with somewhere between $5M and $9M today.
The hardest (but not necessarily prudent) thing was not selling it all those years!