Options
Does CAC keep track of coins it denied
Morgan13
Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am curious if CAC has a data base of coins it has denied. I sent a few coins through a dealer and did not do to well but I feel I should have done better. We all do right?
I want to resubmit but I also don't want to waste my money.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
0
Comments
I asked a CAC rep about this a couple of years ago when I bought a fairly expensive coin. I really didn’t want to submit it and pay all the shipping/handling/grading costs if it had been turned down before. They told me they were not authorized to release any information on whether the particular coin had been submitted before. I ended up not sending it in.
I was told by CACG that they don’t access CAC records when grading. Might try the grading route.
I find it difficult to believe that checking a new submission by cert number against a database of past submissions (regardless of the outcome of the submission(s)) isn’t one of the first things they do within their process.
I’m not implying any nefarious motive by CAC, and it strikes me as it would be more efficient to know that past answer, if there is indeed a past answer.
This is all assumption on my part and perhaps I’m sorely mistaken.
I’m guessing that CAC would nonetheless review the coin. Odds are probably poor that they would change their decision. Or, they may not check their records at all. JA seems like the sort that would take the high road.
"Q: Are the serial numbers of PCGS or NGC coins submitted to CAC for verification recorded? If so, are coins automatically rejected by CAC that have previously been submitted but were not stickered?
A: The serial numbers of all PCGS and NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are recorded at the time they are entered into the CAC system.
All PCGS or NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are reviewed for CAC verification whether they have previously been submitted to CAC or not. Occasionally a coin that has previously been rejected for CAC verification is reconsidered by CAC and stickered."
https://cacgrading.com/doc/stickering-frequently-asked-questions/
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
https://www.cacgrading.com/doc/stickering-frequently-asked-questions/
"
Q: Are the serial numbers of PCGS or NGC coins submitted to CAC for verification recorded? If so, are coins automatically rejected by CAC that have previously been submitted but were not stickered?
A: The serial numbers of all PCGS and NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are recorded at the time they are entered into the CAC system.
All PCGS or NGC coins that are submitted to CAC are reviewed for CAC verification whether they have previously been submitted to CAC or not. Occasionally a coin that has previously been rejected for CAC verification is reconsidered by CAC and stickered.
"
Collector, occasional seller
Beat ya, Chris
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Oh within a minute. So close!
Collector, occasional seller
On a recent submission I had 3 of the 9 coins that had been previously submitted receive a sticker.
I wonder what’s the record for submissions of the same coin CA- CHING 💰
@JimTyler . I understood that CAC only charged for coins it actually stickered? Is that wrong? James
I think they give you a discount of the total sticker, but I don't think it is 100% free if it doesn't sticker.
Not anymore. It used to be true for collector accounts only.
There's a top pop liberty nickel that was submitted to PCGS a dozen times trying for an upgrade.
@jmlanzaf . Thanks for answer. James
When I was grading at NGC we saw the same (MS64) 1907 High Relief $20 about a dozen times in approximately a one-year time period. I have no idea whether the same person submitted it each time and if not, how many different submitters tried it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Did it ever upgrade?
Not while I was there and I don’t know beyond that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The short answer is no. CAC engages in passing opinions, and sometimes those opinions change. This was shown in a previous post about 3 out of 9 coins passing that had been submitted previously.
I agree with CAC much of the time, but not aways. I have wondered why CAC approved of some coins, but not others. If you are insecure with grading, I guess knowing which coins failed is helpful to you. If you know what you are doing, CAC might give price indicators, but that’s it.
They return something like 25% of the stickering cost if it does not sticker.
So on the 27th try...
I cannot speak to older pricing schemes, but here is the current policy:
Source: https://www.cacgrading.com/pricing
You know what they say-
Tenth third try is a charm.
Collector, occasional seller
Two more major reasons why coins fail at CAC are cleaning and PVC.
Over the years, I have seen opinions change with respect to all entities which are paid to provide professional opinions on coins.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I've got the Bean on coins on the 3rd or 4th try sooo...
That's remarkable! What were the grades?
Mostly 63/64/65 Morgans
AFAIK they do not but I bet they would recognize certain coins. I bet they even remember certain coins, I know I do, especially if it was one I made.
Did you read thread?
They do track serial numbers!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
+1
Nope
There is absolutely a database that contains approval/denial records of every coin cert # submitted to CAC or CACG, and that is a fact....BUT that does not mean that you would be wasting your money by submitting again, especially if submitting to CACG after CAC denial. Just like PCGS or NGC, they have internal records, but they will give the coin an honest evaluation if submitted again just like PCGS or NGC will. I recently had coins from my collection cross to PCGS from NGC that had been tried 3 or 4 times already. I have had other coins pass CAC in the same cert number on the 2nd try. You can always have the coin regraded and get a new cert # as well, if it makes you feel like you'll get a fresh look.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Maybe we should have different shades of green beans for those no-brainers that pass on the first inspection, versus those C+ coins that eventually upgrade to B- after enough submissions….
Or, easier, just give the collecting public complete visibility to the entire “track record” of attempts by cert number. It would be handy to know if a coin has failed to sticker multiple times.
Certainly, many potential buyers would appreciate that. But at the same time, sellers of coins which had failed to sticker would hate it.
Likewise, a lot of buyers would like to know if coins have failed to upgrade or cross, while sellers of failed attempts would feel very differently about such disclosures.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I wonder if CAC or anyone at CAC with access to those pass/fail records is actively buying and selling coins. That would be a pretty big conflict of interest.
Wow, what an irresponsible post. Do you automatically assume this is a reasonable possibility or are you just pulling such a wild conjecture out of your ax?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Such questions haven’t entered my mind, as I have no reason to suspect such behavior.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think it's something worth discussing and am sorry you disagree. They have the records and as mentioned those records are quite valuable. Do you know who has access to them?
Wow. You’re accusing CAC of conducting unethical and perhaps illegal activities based on nothing more than speculation. I suggest deleting your posts.
Ok. I think we all agree on the value of those records. So the consensus is that no one with access to them has used them to profit? And this is true because everyone with access to them is an ethical person? Maybe I'm glass half empty here, but that's a lot of faith in an unknown number of people.
Do you also “wonder” if graders and/or owners at the various grading companies buy and sell coins for their own accounts and try to influence grading in a profitable manner? That would also be a “pretty big conflict of interest”. For the record, I don’t have any such suspicions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think more than a few people have probably wondered that, but I think the CAC pass/fail list could be more easily used unethically. One would not have to be a grader or owner to profit from that list.
I appreciate that you differentiated between "wonder" and as some others here have said "accuse".
I believe it has been established that graders at major TPGS aren't allowed to deal in coins due to the conflict of interest. I assume that CAC/CACG would apply the same rules to anyone at that would have an unfair advantage.
Collector, occasional seller
I'm not sure there's a ton of profit to be made by knowing that a coin has been rejected or never been to CAC. In the case of a reject, the upside there is just knowing not to waste the effort to resubmit and that there is no "CAC upside potential." In the case of a coin that hasn't been to CAC I'm not sure that will lead to any undeserved profit. In the case of knowing for sure that a coin hasn't been to CAC, it's still TBD whether the coin would sticker or not and reliant on the buyer's skills to assess the coin. In conclusion, I think the concern is overblown.
http://ProofCollection.Net