Options
When the Cent will no longer be minted... will it be legal to melt cents?
tincup
Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
We know the cent is now going away. So... will it be legal to melt cents once this happens? Or... does it have to be demonetized first? Or, will it even matter... will it still be illegal to melt cents?
----- kj
0
Comments
I highly doubt they would ever demonetize the cent. There is no historical precedent for that in the US, except for for Trade Dollar which was demonitized and then remonitized years later.
The melt ban was meant to avoid shortages of a circulating coin. It remains to be seen if the cent will still circulate after production stops. Politicians and businesses seem to be silent on that aspect.
No need to go through the hassle and expense of melting, even if it were to be legal.
The 95% coppers trade for spot/3-5x face or above 24/7, 365.
Who is stacking copper pennies?
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Follow the money ... as always.
Really? I would think the difficulty in handling the number of coins that would make it worth anyone's time, effort, travel, and/or shipping would make it difficult to find anyone interested in buying them. A small flat rate is already $10, and it's only holding $10 face more or less. That pile of boxes in the pictures above is showing me that the USPS is making more on these than anyone else.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
If the zinc in a post 1982 cent becomes worth more than $0.01 you can figure on $30,000 gold and $35 hot dogs.
I knew it would happen.
It gets even more unfavorable. As of 5 days from now (July 13th): small flat rate box increases to $11.70,; medium flat rate box increases to $21.05, large flat rate box increases to $29.95.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
I know someone who put away $1M face. He wanted to start a copper ETF. he owned the fed coin distribution armored car service for Oregon and SW Washington and sorted them out when pennies would come in from commerce for rerolling. I use to buy entire ballistic bags from him and sell them on Ebay after I cherried high grade coins strait from the mint.
That guy must have had a ton of storage for 100 million pennies.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
It is stacked in the mint ballistic bags and the metal frame pallets they use. When I saw it it took up a large section of a warehouse. It is what they do so he has all the right equipment for a project like that. You and I could not just do that. I once put one of these in the back of my PU and it was all it could handle and I think that is $10K face, could have been 5 I don't remember.
340 tons of copper ballast holding down a warehouse. How long before the cost of holding that wipes out the premium over face value?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I never asked him, but since they were the fed coin distributer for the region they probably account it differently than you and I do. It may be some reserve requirement or something like that. He wanted to start a copper ETF.
The storage cost alone is problematic over long periods of time.
That'll be a 3 dollar mustard stain !
Last year they started charging for extra condiments at the bowling alley...
Best Bowling team that year - "Mayo 30 cents extra"
It's all about what the people want...
Second Comment, I dont think its illegal to melt them right now as long as you are doing it in smaller quantities for art purposes. Selling the metal for profit is another story they have debates online on this subject the statute is
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2007/04/16/E7-7088/prohibition-on-the-exportation-melting-or-treatment-of-5-cent-and-one-cent-coins
I was thinking on using pre-82 cents for casting small busts of Abraham Lincoln, but I would probably have to 'trade' them for an equal amount of bronze cents and you would just have to hook me up with some gas, a beer, or some comradery at the very least.
It's all about what the people want...
Not if you own the building.
It’s only ‘free’ if interest rates are zero.
Otherwise, it’s an opportunity cost that nicks you year after year…
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Even if you own the building. There's an opportunity cost.
And property taxes and possible rental fees the space could bring.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
and those are strictly wheats. he only bought wheats
if you want to help the usa to keep paying with cents, i'd not melt them
the whole idea behind the prohibiting regulation is to keep them in circulation. i don't see a regulation change anytime soon
(everyone don't forget melting nickels(cept war nix) is prohibited too)
All of the comments about opportunity cost, etc. of the storage space/warehouse are perfectly valid, but there are many people who have lots of space where no consideration is given those sorts of issues.
I have a relative who has a couple barns and a big metal building that he doesn't mind either filling or leaving empty. They are going to be there either way.
So that's why the US Mint had to keep making billions and billions and billions more cents through the years!! And I imagine he was not the only one doing that.... and think of all the regular joe's saving their small amounts... all adds up big time!
I'd say it was probably time the US Mint finally quite minting the cents. The nickels will have to be next. Now... who is saving those nickels big time??
It wouldn't surprise me if they only discontinued to make sense...cents for a year or 4.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I can't believe the price of copper today. It has been exploding upward.
The FED is likely to start withdrawing pennies and the melting ban will be lifted.
Bringing back the half dime would help.
More likely they will double down in the ban to keep the supply. They don't hate cents. They hate making new ones.
Actually, i got a few customers going to banks weekly extracting the copper cents. I asked one the other day who does it routine about percentages, he said over the past year or so, the percentage of copper out of a $50 box has drastically reduced. Next question I get daily is the 2025 vs 2026 end of the penny. If they have enough planchets left , it may go into 2026 and then that would be the year to accumulate, and would be a fairly scarce issue becuase mintages would be much lower. Then arises the question do they decide not to make business strike 26's and just save planchets for Proof sets and or Satin Mint sets, etc. Lots of questions I get daily I dont have an answer for.
the 2009 presidential has a low mintage and i believe the mint said they can do into 26
they could save planchets and not make a dent into a decent sized circ mintage. i think the mint sets sell under 1,000,000 each
There are numerous possibilities but stores already hate cents so I imagine many will just stop ordering them. This would cause them to back up in the system. But one thing is certain, if everyone keeps using cents as they do now the banks will run out VERY quickly because ahigh percentage of these toxic little slugs are used only one or two times. Nearly one penny in ten you get in change is "uncirculated". Once a store can't get enough they will convert to rounding.
Only a few percent of circulating pennies get used in any given month so these will come into banks from the general population for years and years. I have to believe most of these that don't go to supply customer requests will be returned to the FED and they will be separated and destroyed. I believe this will be much quicker than most imagine. Indeed, the last of the cents struck will often go almost straight from the mint to landfill or recycling furnaces where they belong. Cutting out the middleman like this could be applied more broadly.
The circulating pennies are disgusting. They are dirty and covered in tarnish and oxides. With low velocity in circulation they have many other contaminants on their surfaces. There's just no point in using them. I believe they will be gone very quickly as stores begin putting up signs; "NO PENNIES". The things are so worthless that even the FED getting free copper and zinc will not be able to process all this metal at a profit!
The melting ban should be lifted within 18 months. Canada is still melting their old nickel coins though I'm sure quantities keep decreasing. It won't be many years until banks won't take them either because they are dirty and make their counters dirty. The longer pennies sit around the house they will get more and more corroded and dirtier and dirtier. I'd bet within five or six years most of the rest of these will hit the trash. Even at $10 copper most people won't bother saving out the older coins. They are done. Cooked. Over. They have been obsolete and worn like a dead albatross since 1974. Now they stink to high heaven without anyone even caring about them. I think it's sad. I think it's sad that people don't care about having worthless coins, collecting them, and their proper disposal. I think it's sad that people imagine sinister forces when you even talk about modern coins. i think it's sad there are so many forces working against would be collectors.
Nothing in this post is intended in any way to be political. It just happens to be related to current events which are a product of things that have gone on continually since the advent of modern coins in 1965. All events are shaped by every event that came in the past.
We are already 72% of the way there on the zincoln.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I’m not sure why there’s such a substantial disparity between copper bid/ask and futures. Futures were up over 5.50, following a surge to 5.89, after a copper import tariff was announced to take effect soon. Your screenshot shows the kitco ask which is standard for actual market values, but gold futures are never that much of a discrepancy, typically 1-2% at most.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
OUCH!
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
@cladking that was an impressive, thought provoking, and well written post!
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
futures have a bid/ask but it's a tight spread. it's past regular hours and the b/a is 5.6080x5.6114
ANYWAY..... it's probably because of transaction size. us futures contracts are for 25,000 pounds
Me
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
.
.
But there is also the potential for price appreciation of the building.
,
Yep.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Which would still happen if there were a productive use of the building.
It will be interesting to see how long you will be able to rolls from the bank. I hope it’s for a while so that roll searchers, especially the YNs will be able to fill their albums at face value.
I'm having fun being persnickety about what I keep, from what I sort through. It's a viable way to have $5 in a jar, somewhere. I'm surprised to find round & 12-sided Canadian cents, and occasionally one with Rex George is in the roll. I agree, begrudgingly, with the discontinuation of the U.S. Cent, but I'll be mopey when I can't get them from banks, anymore.
I'm going to hafta stock up for this impending Zombie Penny Apocalypse, so I have rolls to sort through after everything comes down. It's always been a pleasant distraction from rainy day moments, and likely will be moreso once people go Full Mad Max for some terribly spotty not so old Abe's.
Honestly it is time for cents to leave circulation. I just am unsure what the mint's plans are. They could certainly do a full 2025 mintage and then keep 2026 as NIFC only