@MsMorrisine said:
our crisis is going to last years as it is, but i might have to stay up a couple extra hours again to massage the causes into a state of relaxation
we'll be ok
you'll be ok because i'm burned out on ast and one at a time, these things are going to stay in stock for a number of days. no need to countdown for an extended number of days
anyone following the secondary?
I do wonder if anyone is still buying. Ebay sale prices are around $200 raw
@coiner said:
The amount of cancelled orders due to HHL violations was bound to be high-20k or more was my estimate
Why?
Human nature. Find a way to order more than one coin on each account and the sheep follow along and do so.
The only way this makes sense from a flipping perspective is to have quantity. One, two or Three isn’t worth it.
50-100-150 is worth it.
Bottom line is that many are just waiting for the HHL to be removed—it will be—-when we aren’t sure.
Definitely before they start shipping.
I'll give you credit. You were right on this one. I never questioned that people would play games. Many do, even here on this forum.
The extent of it, though, was beyond my imagination. For the Mint to have gone to this length to kill the orders, and reopen the process, e-mail, waiting room and all, and the number of orders killed (literally over 40% of the total, after backing out Big Boy advance orders), indicates that the people screwing around were doing so on a scale none of us could have imagined. Not 3 or 5 or even 10 orders, but likely dozens or hundreds each. Because 37K isn't 10K people doing 3 each.
Many ARE just waiting for the HHL to be removed. Including the scammers. As long as they are still playing games, as indicated by the 6K released this morning, it seems as though the Mint is not going to want to reward them by opening it up by removing the HHL.
If there are less than 7K remaining, the Mint might just keep the HHL on out of spite, and let them dribble out over time rather than letting the scammers fight with us over what's left, 99 at a time. TBD, but I really thought the HHL would be lifted today, either at noon or at 1:30.
Didn't happen. Does anyone think it's going to happen between now and Monday? Because, if not, I think they'll be able to sell them one at a time over a few days, repeatedly canceling orders and putting them back in inventory. I also think the message on the website about 7/7 was premature, but not inaccurate. I think they are going to ship next week.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
@RichR said:
So then...how many are currently available?
21732?
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
@SilverPlatinum said:
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. This things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
If that's the case, they should lift the HHL. I'm ready and willing to purchase more. RGDS!
If that's what's happening, they probably will. It will eventually sell out either way. It's what happens to the secondary market that is the question.
@SilverPlatinum said:
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. These things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
Shouldn’t be buying coins if you need to jump off on a $100 purchase.
It's the flippers, mostly, that jump off. But if the price starts dropping, casual collectors will join because they will elect to be able to buy them cheaper later.
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
@SilverPlatinum said:
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. These things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
No one is buying and then immediately "jumping off due to the lack of a sell out" while the HHL is 1 and there is a huge premium to be made via an eBay presale. The Mint has shown that it is ready, willing and able to aggressively cancel ineligible orders.
And that is what is happening. Over and over and over now. It's unclear why they didn't lift the HHL yesterday after they remained on sale for 24 hours. I happen to think it's to stop these people from grabbing quantity after having their single coin orders cancelled.
If I'm right, this is going to be a whack-a-mole standoff, where they sell every day, are canceled and replenished every night, and the HHL isn't lifted until it stops. Or until the coins sell out organically to people who did not previously have orders cancelled. I guess we'll see!
@SilverPlatinum said:
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. These things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
No one is buying and then immediately "jumping off due to the lack of a sell out" while the HHL is 1 and there is a huge premium to be made via an eBay presale. The Mint has shown that it is ready, willing and able to aggressively cancel ineligible orders.
And that is what is happening. Over and over and over now. It's unclear why they didn't lift the HHL yesterday after they remained on sale for 24 hours. I happen to think it's to stop these people from grabbing quantity after having their single coin orders cancelled.
If I'm right, this is going to be a whack-a-mole standoff, where they sell every day, are canceled and replenished every night, and the HHL isn't lifted until it stops. Or until the coins sell out organically to people who did not previously have orders cancelled. I guess we'll see!
At least 2 people on this very thread canceled their orders. You might want to write less and read more.
@SilverPlatinum said:
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. These things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
No one is buying and then immediately "jumping off due to the lack of a sell out" while the HHL is 1 and there is a huge premium to be made via an eBay presale. The Mint has shown that it is ready, willing and able to aggressively cancel ineligible orders.
And that is what is happening. Over and over and over now. It's unclear why they didn't lift the HHL yesterday after they remained on sale for 24 hours. I happen to think it's to stop these people from grabbing quantity after having their single coin orders cancelled.
If I'm right, this is going to be a whack-a-mole standoff, where they sell every day, are canceled and replenished every night, and the HHL isn't lifted until it stops. Or until the coins sell out organically to people who did not previously have orders cancelled. I guess we'll see!
At least 2 people on this very thread canceled their orders. You might want to write less and read more.
And I'm not sure I believe it, considering they could be easily flipped for a profit. In any event, I think you know that's not what's happening.
Because the Mint absolutely would have lifted the HHL in an effort to sell what they have if the cancellations were coming from the customers rather than from the Mint itself. 40K people didn't cancel their orders. 20K people didn't cancel their orders. 6K people didn't cancel their orders.
Even if at least 2 people did here. And, for all we know, the 2 people might have cancelled, not because they are nervous due to the lack of a sell out, but because they are afraid of being blackballed by the Mint for violating the HHL, after seeing what the Mint is clearly doing to others.
@SilverPlatinum said:
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. These things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
No one is buying and then immediately "jumping off due to the lack of a sell out" while the HHL is 1 and there is a huge premium to be made via an eBay presale. The Mint has shown that it is ready, willing and able to aggressively cancel ineligible orders.
And that is what is happening. Over and over and over now. It's unclear why they didn't lift the HHL yesterday after they remained on sale for 24 hours. I happen to think it's to stop these people from grabbing quantity after having their single coin orders cancelled.
If I'm right, this is going to be a whack-a-mole standoff, where they sell every day, are canceled and replenished every night, and the HHL isn't lifted until it stops. Or until the coins sell out organically to people who did not previously have orders cancelled. I guess we'll see!
At least 2 people on this very thread canceled their orders. You might want to write less and read more.
And I'm not sure I believe it, considering they could be easily flipped for a profit. In any event, I think you know that's not what's happening.
Because the Mint absolutely would have lifted the HHL in an effort to sell what they have if the cancellations were coming from the customers rather than from the Mint itself. 40K people didn't cancel their orders. 20K people didn't cancel their orders. 6K people didn't cancel their orders.
Even if at least 2 people did here. And, for all we know, the 2 people might have cancelled, not because they are nervous due to the lack of a sell out, but because they are afraid of being blackballed by the Mint for violating the HHL, after seeing what the Mint is clearly doing to others.
One of the individuals in question explained that he ordered one but couldn't find a buyer and canceled. The other, I don't know the reason.
I think I’m the other one here that cancelled. I just don’t see a market for this, when it was maybe hard to get and the design, it was neat, but now, everyone who wanted one could get one. I just don’t see a market hanging around for this. I don’t presell or really sell on eBay at all so that’s no interest to me. But overall I don’t see this holding up.
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
@Dollar2007 said:
I think I’m the other one here that cancelled. I just don’t see a market for this, when it was maybe hard to get and the design, it was neat, but now, everyone who wanted one could get one. I just don’t see a market hanging around for this. I don’t presell or really sell on eBay at all so that’s no interest to me. But overall I don’t see this holding up.
I don't understand the reasoning here. You dont sell but you cancelled because you don't see a market for these. 🤔
The other member who ordered and then canceled said that the buyer on the BST didn't respond to him, but he apparently had not approached the buyer as indicated in the thread. The buyer said he would speak with potential sellers privately (message) but the member just posted his question in the thread. Another seller seems to have struck a deal after that, so the buyer is still buying, as are ebay buyers.
The secondary market is still there for now. Flippers are still flipping.
BTW...speaking for myself as a collector, if i want a mint issue I'll buy it directly from the mint. I'm not interested in waiting a couple years to see if the price comes down so I can buy someone else's potentially manhandled problem coin.
@fox9487 said:
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
Sorry, but in over 20 years I can't recall the mint ever doing it like this. This is like selling 230 gold privy flowing hair coins and only releasing 150 in a first batch, then watching the rest come up a month later after buyers got burned at the auctions.
@jmlanzaf said:
This is just not that hot an issue
Hard to say when there are 100K and you can only buy 1. Let them sit unsold if/when the HLL is lifted, and then pronounce it "just not that hot an issue."
Not at all hard to tell. Issues of 100k or even more used to sell out installing even with HHL of 1. This puppy has taken days to sell out.
Only because bots were able to slam the website in the past. This "puppy" has now been on sale for 3.5 hours on the day of release, a few minutes the day after, and now 9 hours today, with a HHL of 1, no bots, lots of would-be buyers locked out, and apparently, in a rare shout-out to @coiner, tens of thousand of canceled orders due to people gaming system and being ferreted out. Not because they are "just not that hot an issue." Again, let them remove the HHL, and then tell me how "just not hot" it is. Today. Not in 2 years.
Hardly "days." If there are any left at noon tomorrow, and if they lift the HHL, they will be gone in a nano-second, which will effectively constitute a one-day sellout.
There are no bids at 2x issue price on anything that is actually available at issue price while taking "days to sell out." You know better, so why are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
When it takes 9 hours, it's not that hot. Period. The waiting room slows things down but not that much. There used to be 500k people online at the time of release and they would sell out in under an hour. Now, multiple hours even with a 100% premium on the bid.
It's not that hot. That's no crime. And it will sell out. But it doesn't bode well for long term pricing.
I don't know @jmlanzaf Mike Mezack said they sold out in less than 30 seconds and I always believe everything he says
@Dollar2007 said:
I think I’m the other one here that cancelled. I just don’t see a market for this, when it was maybe hard to get and the design, it was neat, but now, everyone who wanted one could get one. I just don’t see a market hanging around for this. I don’t presell or really sell on eBay at all so that’s no interest to me. But overall I don’t see this holding up.
Pure still has standing offers of $226 at the moment.
Pure still has standing offers of $226 at the moment.
Exactly. This coin is incredibly easy to sell right now. 1.5% fee to sell on Pure if you're new. Insured label, no scammers...the owner is a member of this forum.
@HalfDime said:
This is what happened to the value of each pre-order with this extra late dump.
My guess RAW values
100k mintage $200
75k mintage $300
I don't think I agree with this approach.
The mintage was always 100,000 and it was a pre-order, meaning that none were physically in the marketplace yet. Buy/sell commitments were and still are based on those facts.
If the ownership of a couple tens of thousands shifted this week due to cancelations and new orders, that doesn't change the mintage or the demand.
@jmlanzaf said:
This is just not that hot an issue
Hard to say when there are 100K and you can only buy 1. Let them sit unsold if/when the HLL is lifted, and then pronounce it "just not that hot an issue."
Not at all hard to tell. Issues of 100k or even more used to sell out installing even with HHL of 1. This puppy has taken days to sell out.
Only because bots were able to slam the website in the past. This "puppy" has now been on sale for 3.5 hours on the day of release, a few minutes the day after, and now 9 hours today, with a HHL of 1, no bots, lots of would-be buyers locked out, and apparently, in a rare shout-out to @coiner, tens of thousand of canceled orders due to people gaming system and being ferreted out. Not because they are "just not that hot an issue." Again, let them remove the HHL, and then tell me how "just not hot" it is. Today. Not in 2 years.
Hardly "days." If there are any left at noon tomorrow, and if they lift the HHL, they will be gone in a nano-second, which will effectively constitute a one-day sellout.
There are no bids at 2x issue price on anything that is actually available at issue price while taking "days to sell out." You know better, so why are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
When it takes 9 hours, it's not that hot. Period. The waiting room slows things down but not that much. There used to be 500k people online at the time of release and they would sell out in under an hour. Now, multiple hours even with a 100% premium on the bid.
It's not that hot. That's no crime. And it will sell out. But it doesn't bode well for long term pricing.
I don't know @jmlanzaf Mike Mezack said they sold out in less than 30 seconds and I always believe everything he says
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
@jmlanzaf said:
This is just not that hot an issue
Hard to say when there are 100K and you can only buy 1. Let them sit unsold if/when the HLL is lifted, and then pronounce it "just not that hot an issue."
Not at all hard to tell. Issues of 100k or even more used to sell out installing even with HHL of 1. This puppy has taken days to sell out.
Only because bots were able to slam the website in the past. This "puppy" has now been on sale for 3.5 hours on the day of release, a few minutes the day after, and now 9 hours today, with a HHL of 1, no bots, lots of would-be buyers locked out, and apparently, in a rare shout-out to @coiner, tens of thousand of canceled orders due to people gaming system and being ferreted out. Not because they are "just not that hot an issue." Again, let them remove the HHL, and then tell me how "just not hot" it is. Today. Not in 2 years.
Hardly "days." If there are any left at noon tomorrow, and if they lift the HHL, they will be gone in a nano-second, which will effectively constitute a one-day sellout.
There are no bids at 2x issue price on anything that is actually available at issue price while taking "days to sell out." You know better, so why are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
When it takes 9 hours, it's not that hot. Period. The waiting room slows things down but not that much. There used to be 500k people online at the time of release and they would sell out in under an hour. Now, multiple hours even with a 100% premium on the bid.
It's not that hot. That's no crime. And it will sell out. But it doesn't bode well for long term pricing.
I don't know @jmlanzaf Mike Mezack said they sold out in less than 30 seconds and I always believe everything he says
Heard back from a BST buyer and reordered the Army Privy that I had canceled earlier. I’d only ordered 1 so had no fear of being blackballed by the mint as one person had suggested. Still a market for these and who am I to turn down free $!
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
So are those orders getting canceled?
No. 40K people changed their mind, and those orders are not being canceled. 🤣
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
So are those orders getting canceled?
They probably were initially. There was a drop of 11k in the 3 days after release. The subsequent coins could have arisen from multiple sources (despite what not NY says). They find the HHL violations by running a script not by hand-checking. So it isn't really clear where the other 25k came from. Some are probably HHL violations, some are probably bad CCs, some are probably cancellations. Who knows?
Bottom line is that they haven't been able to sell 90k coins even with all the flippers.
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
So are those orders getting canceled?
They probably were initially. There was a drop of 11k in the 3 days after release. The subsequent coins could have arisen from multiple sources (despite what not NY says). They find the HHL violations by running a script not by hand-checking. So it isn't really clear where the other 25k came from. Some are probably HHL violations, some are probably bad CCs, some are probably cancellations. Who knows?
Bottom line is that they haven't been able to sell 90k coins even with all the flippers.
No. The bottom line is they aren't selling them, not because they can't, because they keep canceling orders that violated the HHL, and they still haven't lifted the HHL.
This is the very first time they so aggressively went after the violators. In hindsight, the signal that they were going to do this was their failure to lift the HHL after the fist 24 hours. I don't think they ever did that before on anything with such a high mintage.
They'll sell out in an instant if they ever lift the HHL. Will almost certainly sell out at some point even if they don't. Get back to us when the eBay price gets close to $105 if they are still available on the Mint's website. At that point, you'll be right.
Until then, not so much. You're a dealer -- why is there a bid at $200 if the Mint can't sell 90K at $105?
@HalfDime said:
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
So are those orders getting canceled?
They probably were initially. There was a drop of 11k in the 3 days after release. The subsequent coins could have arisen from multiple sources (despite what not NY says). They find the HHL violations by running a script not by hand-checking. So it isn't really clear where the other 25k came from. Some are probably HHL violations, some are probably bad CCs, some are probably cancellations. Who knows?
Bottom line is that they haven't been able to sell 90k coins even with all the flippers.
No. The bottom line is they aren't selling them, not because they can't, because they keep canceling orders that violated the HHL, and they still haven't lifted the HHL.
This is the very first time they so aggressively went after the violators. In hindsight, the signal that they were going to do this was their failure to lift the HHL after the fist 24 hours. I don't think they ever did that before on anything with such a high mintage.
They'll sell out in an instant if they ever lift the HHL. Will almost certainly sell out at some point even if they don't. Get back to us when the eBay price gets close to $105 if they are still available on the Mint's website. At that point, you'll be right.
Until then, not so much. You're a dealer -- why is there a bid at $200 if the Mint can't sell 90K at $105?
Because the people who need supply can't get it... yet. Duh. They may well be marketing to military types not coin types.
It will sell out despite the tepid sales, but it is not behaving like a hot issue.
The USM should have just lifted the HHL after 24 hours as in their original plan.
They shot themselves in the foot—the point is to sell the item.
They would have been gone Day 2 at 7:30am est.
USM take note for next time.
Comments
I do wonder if anyone is still buying. Ebay sale prices are around $200 raw
I'll give you credit. You were right on this one. I never questioned that people would play games. Many do, even here on this forum.
The extent of it, though, was beyond my imagination. For the Mint to have gone to this length to kill the orders, and reopen the process, e-mail, waiting room and all, and the number of orders killed (literally over 40% of the total, after backing out Big Boy advance orders), indicates that the people screwing around were doing so on a scale none of us could have imagined. Not 3 or 5 or even 10 orders, but likely dozens or hundreds each. Because 37K isn't 10K people doing 3 each.
Many ARE just waiting for the HHL to be removed. Including the scammers. As long as they are still playing games, as indicated by the 6K released this morning, it seems as though the Mint is not going to want to reward them by opening it up by removing the HHL.
If there are less than 7K remaining, the Mint might just keep the HHL on out of spite, and let them dribble out over time rather than letting the scammers fight with us over what's left, 99 at a time. TBD, but I really thought the HHL would be lifted today, either at noon or at 1:30.
Didn't happen. Does anyone think it's going to happen between now and Monday? Because, if not, I think they'll be able to sell them one at a time over a few days, repeatedly canceling orders and putting them back in inventory. I also think the message on the website about 7/7 was premature, but not inaccurate. I think they are going to ship next week.
i notice all raw are listed as BIN
there is a new one at about 200. see how long it lasts
is this real?
what the hell is going on
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
So then...how many are currently available?
21732?
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
21732?
How is that possible? Did the Mint attempt to scrub "duplicate" orders from yesterday too?
Maybe its 6048 than idk @MsMorrisine would know
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
Yes...I think it's 6,048,,,
As of this morning, this is the coins count: 9380
Not sure where are those coins are coming from! Too many canceled orders?
It's possible people are jumping off due to the lack of a sell out. These things can snowball like they did with the 2017 EU sets.
If that's the case, they should lift the HHL. I'm ready and willing to purchase more. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
If that's what's happening, they probably will. It will eventually sell out either way. It's what happens to the secondary market that is the question.
Shouldn’t be buying coins if you need to jump off on a $100 purchase.
[Shouldn’t be buying coins if you need to jump off on a $100 purchase.]
The same can be said about playing blackjack!!!
It's the flippers, mostly, that jump off. But if the price starts dropping, casual collectors will join because they will elect to be able to buy them cheaper later.
The US Mint has hurt a lot of people who locked into this coin at the top on Ebay prices. Many assumed there would be no more coins coming into the market so they bought at the top, and now the mint releases the extra 25k coins at HHL of 1, which undercuts all those that bought recently listed preorders. I know many can say that is the chance they took in buying, but the mint should not have done this without telling the coin news websites what was happening to prevent people from being burned like this. The next two releases may be impacted by this. It was obvious the mint had a flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders that broke the HHL of 1, and the preorders should have come back up every morning like they did in past releases. By holding them until one huge dump that created an early scarcity of coins that burned many people.
No one is buying and then immediately "jumping off due to the lack of a sell out" while the HHL is 1 and there is a huge premium to be made via an eBay presale. The Mint has shown that it is ready, willing and able to aggressively cancel ineligible orders.
And that is what is happening. Over and over and over now. It's unclear why they didn't lift the HHL yesterday after they remained on sale for 24 hours. I happen to think it's to stop these people from grabbing quantity after having their single coin orders cancelled.
If I'm right, this is going to be a whack-a-mole standoff, where they sell every day, are canceled and replenished every night, and the HHL isn't lifted until it stops. Or until the coins sell out organically to people who did not previously have orders cancelled. I guess we'll see!
ast 6048
what's the other number?
At least 2 people on this very thread canceled their orders. You might want to write less and read more.
And I'm not sure I believe it, considering they could be easily flipped for a profit. In any event, I think you know that's not what's happening.
Because the Mint absolutely would have lifted the HHL in an effort to sell what they have if the cancellations were coming from the customers rather than from the Mint itself. 40K people didn't cancel their orders. 20K people didn't cancel their orders. 6K people didn't cancel their orders.
Even if at least 2 people did here. And, for all we know, the 2 people might have cancelled, not because they are nervous due to the lack of a sell out, but because they are afraid of being blackballed by the Mint for violating the HHL, after seeing what the Mint is clearly doing to others.
One of the individuals in question explained that he ordered one but couldn't find a buyer and canceled. The other, I don't know the reason.
I think I’m the other one here that cancelled. I just don’t see a market for this, when it was maybe hard to get and the design, it was neat, but now, everyone who wanted one could get one. I just don’t see a market hanging around for this. I don’t presell or really sell on eBay at all so that’s no interest to me. But overall I don’t see this holding up.
@jmlanzaf, @RichR, @jwitten
There was no "flaw in the ordering software that allowed multiple orders" to go through.. Try purchasing another with "some" of your same information and the order will not be allowed to go through, period. I will not say which information is key.
Yes, I have multiple orders in and absolutely no worries of cancellation. Ya just have to know how to do it.
Folks like jmlanzaf, jwitten, RichR, and others not coming to mind right now know how to do it.
Others like NJCoin, coiner, and Halfdime have no idea despite their supposed knowledge and theories on the subject.
I don't understand the reasoning here. You dont sell but you cancelled because you don't see a market for these. 🤔
The other member who ordered and then canceled said that the buyer on the BST didn't respond to him, but he apparently had not approached the buyer as indicated in the thread. The buyer said he would speak with potential sellers privately (message) but the member just posted his question in the thread. Another seller seems to have struck a deal after that, so the buyer is still buying, as are ebay buyers.
The secondary market is still there for now. Flippers are still flipping.
BTW...speaking for myself as a collector, if i want a mint issue I'll buy it directly from the mint. I'm not interested in waiting a couple years to see if the price comes down so I can buy someone else's potentially manhandled problem coin.
Sorry, but in over 20 years I can't recall the mint ever doing it like this. This is like selling 230 gold privy flowing hair coins and only releasing 150 in a first batch, then watching the rest come up a month later after buyers got burned at the auctions.
I don't know @jmlanzaf Mike Mezack said they sold out in less than 30 seconds and I always believe everything he says
Pure still has standing offers of $226 at the moment.
New undisclosed rule allows big buyers to return 69s for resell.
buy to collect as the flip is dying. Have a great 4th.
This is what happened to the value of each pre-order with this extra late dump.
My guess RAW values
100k mintage $200
75k mintage $300
Exactly. This coin is incredibly easy to sell right now. 1.5% fee to sell on Pure if you're new. Insured label, no scammers...the owner is a member of this forum.
https://www.collectpure.com/marketplace/product/250th-anniversary-united-states-army-american-eagle-one-ounce-silver-proof-coin-25apm0121
I don't think I agree with this approach.
The mintage was always 100,000 and it was a pre-order, meaning that none were physically in the marketplace yet. Buy/sell commitments were and still are based on those facts.
If the ownership of a couple tens of thousands shifted this week due to cancelations and new orders, that doesn't change the mintage or the demand.
Let him know they are still available. Lol
You are, of course, kidding about the undisclosed rule. Please be careful about creating misinformation.
There was a flaw in the release day as multiple people in this thread managed to place orders as guests using identical information.
Questionable integrity.
Heard back from a BST buyer and reordered the Army Privy that I had canceled earlier. I’d only ordered 1 so had no fear of being blackballed by the mint as one person had suggested. Still a market for these and who am I to turn down free $!
So are those orders getting canceled?
No. 40K people changed their mind, and those orders are not being canceled. 🤣
They probably were initially. There was a drop of 11k in the 3 days after release. The subsequent coins could have arisen from multiple sources (despite what not NY says). They find the HHL violations by running a script not by hand-checking. So it isn't really clear where the other 25k came from. Some are probably HHL violations, some are probably bad CCs, some are probably cancellations. Who knows?
Bottom line is that they haven't been able to sell 90k coins even with all the flippers.
No. The bottom line is they aren't selling them, not because they can't, because they keep canceling orders that violated the HHL, and they still haven't lifted the HHL.
This is the very first time they so aggressively went after the violators. In hindsight, the signal that they were going to do this was their failure to lift the HHL after the fist 24 hours. I don't think they ever did that before on anything with such a high mintage.
They'll sell out in an instant if they ever lift the HHL. Will almost certainly sell out at some point even if they don't. Get back to us when the eBay price gets close to $105 if they are still available on the Mint's website. At that point, you'll be right.
Until then, not so much. You're a dealer -- why is there a bid at $200 if the Mint can't sell 90K at $105?
The latest completed sales show the damage done, presale prices have crashed down to about $200 now on Ebay.
Earlier the market was pricing in the supply of preorders at the time, which was 75k not 100k.
It is now pricing in 100k as the additional flippers have joined in.
8806 in the inventory as of this post.
Son of a Silver Stacker gives his take on the 2025 W ASE Army Privy.
Starts at the 3:28 mark.
So I was playing around placing an order and saw the expected ship date is now 7/8🤪
Here we go again.........
Because the people who need supply can't get it... yet. Duh. They may well be marketing to military types not coin types.
It will sell out despite the tepid sales, but it is not behaving like a hot issue.
The USM should have just lifted the HHL after 24 hours as in their original plan.
They shot themselves in the foot—the point is to sell the item.
They would have been gone Day 2 at 7:30am est.
USM take note for next time.
Hmmm, did you notice it changed from "preorder" to "backorder?"
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
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