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Losses For Proof Red Copper Tonight At GC
FlyingAl
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Stewart Blay's Red Copper cents took some losses tonight at GC - may be an indicator of a slight decrease in strength for high prices for exceptional coins, or the market may have been a bit strong at the initial offering.
1909 VDB in PR67+RD (gold CAC) - went for $275,000, sold initially for $365,000.
1909 in PR68RD (CAC) - went for $110,000, sold initially for $155,000.
1911 in PR66+RB (CAC) - went for $15,205, sold initially for $40,500.
1915 in PR67RD (CAC) - went for $70,000, sold initially for $132,000.
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No one can fairly accuse you of being overly dramatic for saying that the coins “took some losses…” That was putting it mildly.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sorry to hear this. Stewart's legacy is the ultimate in red copper.
I think “market may have been a bit strong at the original offering” is the answer here. There was considerable interest by many collectors for the chance to obtain one of Stewart’s coins.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
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@Goldbully: imo, Stewart’s legacy is intact!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Not bad when you have your own sticker!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
The market for Lincoln Proofs in those grades is thin and thin markets are dangerous markets.
It’s not surprising that his coins sold for less money. It’s only been 2.5 years since they were initially sold on GC.
Wow! It's not an area (or price range) that I play in, but that's pretty dramatic losses!
Ouch.
Yeah whoever bought the set after won't be having a party. Maybe the coins would have done better in specialized auctions?
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
That’s a roughly $220k difference in price 😱
Edited to add: maybe the consignor was able to “buy them back”. I hope so
Empty Nest Collection
How is this different from (or the same as) other coins that fetched moon money in named sales? Is this a decrease in the strength of these coins or is it a decrease in the value of the provenance?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Maybe the underbidders weren't present?
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
They weren’t in a “specialized auction” when they sold previously at the much higher prices.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think “Losses for top-end Matte Proof Lincoln Cents” would be a more accurate summation of what happened last night at GC.
The most expensive coin, the legendary and incredibly beautiful 1909-VDB PR67+ Gold CAC , seems to have suffered the smallest percentage loss.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
I guess what I'm wondering is if all we're seeing is a fall-off in the value of the provenance. Didn't many of the Fairmont gold coins show a big drop from when they were first sold? Is this really a lesson in the price of having to have a coin from a specific collection when it first becomes available?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Not sure if the typo is from GC or Al, but the famous PR67+ with the gold CAC sticker was an RD not RB.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
My mistake, thanks Bob.
For reference, I used red copper in the title because that’s how GC described the collection as a whole.
I believe this coin to be the "famous" PR67+ 09vdb. Ex John Story Jenks. NGC68 RB green bean to PC67+ RB gold bean. The coin is a moose and the most beautiful Lincoln cent I have ever seen.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Theres some coins that I like better in RB than RD. The skin on this one is just impeccable.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
I can live without it at those prices. I don’t like red copper. I will only buy red copper at couple hundred dollars. Beyond that, I only want R&B or Brown.
Those who track the aftermarket of auctions representing famous collectors might chime in. It doesn’t strike me as unusual that there would be a sort of frenzy when a collection of this quality and notoriety is released after years of conversation surrounding the collector, his collection, and its components. That proof VDB is absolutely spectacular. I would like to own a piece of that collection, but decided to pass because I figured on a sort of feeding frenzy at the time. Perhaps I’ll circle back now if the waters have calmed.
This must really make some of the people who originally bought in at moon prices feel a little worried. On the other hand it seems with some coins money is no object.
Really nice 1909 vdb. Just beautiful.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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Sometimes a greater fool isnt available and the prices correct.
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It isn’t. I looked earlier. Th coin 67+ with the gold CAC sticker was RD, not RB.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I dont think its the coins or the market. Its the current time being resold, not tied in with the hype of the initial sale. Had a friend who got in with the hype on saddle ridge, spent a pile on a nice $10, went to auction a few years later, got creamed.
Ive got a situation myself i am afraid of, group of 20's that just sold from a private deal fresh to market in auction, i bought one of the key dates from the set from family before they consigned, now that I am selling, (only because it was a spur of the moment secondary purchase because I couldn't initially get the one I wanted) Now that I have won that one in auction , selling this one, but its alone by itself, and may not bring as much as it would have away from the initial sale, we'll see.
A local dealer and author was looking to sell a substantial collection and was hoping to meet with Stacks/Bowers to go over the items. I'd think HA or Stacks would bring more, especially properly timed and a signature auction with strong write ups.. GC is quick cash, low fees but that doesn't necessarily translate into top dollar.
You cannot get more publicity than when Mr Blay passed away. Now that it has been a couple of years the ct is out of the bag and reality has hit imo
Who is “Mr Levine”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mrs. Levine's husband.
Mr Blay
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
Momentary stu-pefaction?
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@MFeld
Who is Mr. Levine?
I am thinking it could be Joe Levine... he was very knowledgeable in connection with medals... especially Inaugural Medals. He operated Presidential Coin out of the DC suburbs and ran auctions for years. He passed afew years ago. A great person to deal with.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
But I don’t know of any Mr. Levine who had anything of significance to do with Stewart Blay’s collection. And it was his coins that were being discussed.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Stewart had a great eye and his coins are still fabulous. Not sure why they were sold again in what seems like a quick amount of time. Perhaps the owners got bored. Perhaps economic fears are driving this market down a bit..
Flipper’s remorse or collectors score. Curious how soon they’ll be in another auction.
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The coins were sold too soon and I think selling them privately would have yielded more money.
@messydesk . The drop in prices seems to happen on a regular basis. I was shut out when a large collection of Seated coins hit the market under the McCloskey name. In my opinion the people selling their coins did not wait long enough but re-sell prices have been anemic and sometimes below curent market pricing. James
Evidently my joke missed the mark, but I said “Momentary Stu-Pefaction” emphasizing the “Stu” part. Another prominent Stuart in the coin industry is Stu Levine, so someone could easily had a momentary memory lapse and confuse the two Stuarts. Mr Blay’s (Stewart) spelling was different, however.
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I’m glad you wrote “ Evidently my joke missed the mark..” and not “Evidently my joke missed the Mark..” because it didn’t miss me and I didn’t miss it.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
When you pay up for a name you don't usually recover the premium except on hyper rarities. Once the mania subsides and there's a new shiny toy to attract buyers' attention then the resale goes south barring a market spike. Not to mention the inherent gamble in buying red copper as far as maintaining condition. IMO those are the likely reasons for the significantly lower outcomes. Sorry but those initial sale prices had burial job written all over them. jmho
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Whenever I see hype for anything, I run in the opposite direction. I make a point of avoiding top pops, because either the hype pushes prices to the stratosphere and / or, if you are dealing with a post mid 19th century coin, another one gets made.
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Somehow I wrote Mr Levine when I meant to write Mr Blay
When in doubt, you can always blame autocorrect.
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I hope the decline in prices had nothing to do with Stewart choosing not to get his Lincoln collection put into vanity holders. He certainly didn’t lack ego but I generally find such holders to be a negative. See in particular Hansen and Bass holders.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
If there was a connection between Levine and Blay, it might be Levine's knowledge of V D Brenner that carries over to the Matte Proof Lincolns
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Perhaps the high end market of IHCs is somewhat glutted. There has been more than a few exceptional piece run across the auction block in different venues in the past few months. I bid on a few, but was blown out early on. Not even close!
These are all Lincolns
On a related note… It’s not every day that I can upgrade my Hall of Fame “Top 100 Modern” set. But, today was such a day. The pop 10/1 1972 Lincoln Cent Doubled Die Obverse PCGS MS-67 + RD (CAC Green) (Ex. Stewart Blay / Red Copper) From the Lincoln Collection of Lincoln Cents, sold back in 2023 at the Blay auction for just under $17,500 all in and just sold to me today for just under $8,700 all in (just under 50 cents on the dollar)!! I consider myself very fortunate to have acquired this great coin at this price level.
Wondercoin.
Maybe the food chain is rebalancing without the Megalodon swimming in the waters. Just minus blay’s Statue of Liberty bidding will (and apparently has) effected the shallow elite red copper whale market. Honestly how may copper buyers are there for 6figure top pop pennies when very similar undergrade coins bring a fraction and it’s not like dealers like stocking that kind of stuff to create a small spread wholesale floor. The reasons so many collect cents is they are cheap, elevating past the bulk of a collector base is a risky investment proposition.
Just use wondercoin’s 72ddo in 67. He is a top pop master so I’m sure at 8.7k he knows his market but a near perfect (dime a dozen) 66 red is like a 1k coin maybe a few bucks more. I have often thought there would be a market correction for registry points esp when it’s more grade rarity opposed to real rarity. Maybe correction is too strong but a maturing of the market. I could be wrong as always
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