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Doug Davis says Explosion of Chinese Counterfeits Being Sold on eBay and Google Marketplace!
winesteven
Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just read on Gerry Fortin’s blog that Doug Davis of the Numismatic Crime Information Center shared that he is presently slammed with a host of criminal offenses taking place on eBay and the Google marketplace, in particular an explosion of Chinese counterfeits being sold online. Doug indicated that both eBay and Google are moving to AI driven systems for the posting of merchandise. These AI systems have been exploited by unscrupulous sellers resulting in a sharp increase in numismatic counterfeits being sold to unsuspecting buyers. The counterfeit source, of course, are Chinese manufacturers who are not regulated by the Chinese Communist Party. Producing counterfeits is just another Chinese export business.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
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So what is Doug Davis going to be able to do about this? Arrest the ebay ceo for allowing counterfeits?
We all report counterfeits on there and both their human employees & their AI say everything is on the up & up, a-ok.
He may need to put together some kind of class action suit to get someone’s attention in that company, but I think he’s fighting a losing battle.
Not surprising.
God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️
we knew this for years, and the explosion too.
here's a link that i put into its own thread
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=2025+silver+eagle+-privy+-ngc+-army+-star+-ultra+-2024+-70+-68+-69+-cacg+-pcgs+-anacs+-bastet+-bai+-trump+-lion+-topps&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_blrs=recall_filtering&_odkw=2025+silver+eagle+-privy+-ngc+-army+-star+-ultra+-2024+-70+-68+-69+-cacg+-pcgs+-anacs+-bastet+-bai+-trump+-lion+-topps&_osacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_sop=15
these are sorted from low to high. go through the list and look for a pattern
we tried to get a counterfeit 16-d removed, but no luck 2-3 days of asking everyone to report. that used to do it. it went for over 8,000 and the seller's total counterfeit sales was over 18,000
plus do not forget to include other sites like fb marketplace, Amazon, etsy, whatnot and anyplace else where you can buy-sell things
EBay is going to have a table at the ANA show. Politely make them have a miserable week.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
With the cutbacks in federal law enforcement, don’t look for this to get better any time soon.
You realize the folks you will attempt to make miserable are not the decision makers of eBay.
Doing what you suggest is like making your Amazon delivery driver's life miserable because you detest Amazon's business practices.
What would be affective is doing less business with eBay as a buyer or seller.
That is a difficult challenge to accept though, isn't it?
peacockcoins
All the key dates, lots of obvious counterfeits...a shop manager showed me one he ordered that he knew to be fake because he wanted an example.
I have not used eBay for over 15 years. Between the counterfeits and the sniping, it is zero fun.
Not the same thing. Unlike the Amazon delivery guy, the eBay representatives are there to collect feedback from their customers in addition to selling their services. Make sure you are speaking to whoever is in charge at the eBay table. Let's face it---eBay in no different that the average flea market which is why I pay for my eBay purchases using a credit card so if I get scammed on an eBay purchase and eBay doesn't help me, I just do a charge back with my credit card company.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
EBay is going to have a table at the ANA show. Politely make them have a miserable week.
Better yet, I know that some members of the ANA Board of Governors (or candidates for the Board) frequent this forum. Perhaps they should be asked why they are renting prime bourse space to a front for counterfeiters.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
And Google...
Jeesh
Lmao
Don't forget to boycott the post office...
This problem of counterfeits from China has now been going on since the mid-1990s when the first low quality counterfeit Trade, Seated and Bust Dollar fakes started appearing in large numbers.. The quality of the fakes has now improved and also includes fake TPG holders and even fake auction house stickers. Just think of how much of this kind of material is now sitting in collections all over the US. Now think of how much money has been spent buying all these fakes.
You would think that after 30 years of widespread publicity in numismatic circles about such fakes that the buying public would have wised-up. They haven't. Why?
There's always new people dipping their toes into the hobby. I doubt the same people who bought fakes in 1990 are the ones buying them today.
Saturday, I was at a friend's shop. Guy came in with his sons. The sons had inherited coins from grandpa. Both Morgans were fake and they were bad fakes, probably East Asian pot metal fakes. [Chinese fakes are better. ] Grandpa had owned them for years
On Friday, I was at a different shop. Same story. Fake coin. In the family for "many years".
I know a flea market vendor who has been selling fake "pieces of 8" as real for probably 30 years at this point. I hate the guy, but he's still in business.
There's even an ancient coin specialist who has some copies as well as numerous real ones. SOME of the copies are marked as such in the 2x2. Others he "forgot" which is what he told me when I pointed one out.
This is simply not an easy problem to solve or it would have been solved 50 years ago by the HPA.
You can’t — Kramer already tried
Ponzi scheme precious metal dealing has accelerated as well not related to AI. So there are a lot of issues out there but this one has been discussed ad nauseum.
If Ebay tightens too much the platform will not uncover estate, or decades old, off the market easily listed legitimate merchandise and it becomes just another retail site.
One shop had a magnet posted on the door and sign they said if your Silver coins sticks it's not real.
I've noticed a lot of new accounts selling counterfeits using images of real coins.
Pretty typical red flags...
Price too good to be true for the coin shown
Zero or close to zero feedback
10+ available
Ships from China
Collector, occasional seller
I thought maybe this thread was resurrected from 2013.
And your conclusion is to make those representatives lives miserable VS giving then honest and frank feedback?
peacockcoins
by giving them honest and frank feedback.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Shocked I tell you. Shocked.
I only do business with people either I know personally or someone I trust vouchers for them. Suggest you do likewise. The no questions asked return policy from auction houses left the building at least a decade ago.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I have spent a fair amount of money with Steve Hayden, but only in the auctions he runs or at coin shows. Steve does a lot of business on eBay. I have told him I will not buy from him on eBay. Having been burned with snipping where I lost multi-thousand dollar bids for a few cents, I categorically refuse to deal with eBay. The lot closes and you think you have won it only to be snipped by a couple cents with no recourse. Like is too short to put up with that.
I don't know, usually they will send a specialist who's job it is for a big part of their business to head the show up. This IS the time to make it known. These are not going to all be booth babes, the category director and a couple of VP's will probably be there and in the booth. This was what it was like when I worked in SV and did trade shows. It would be great if PCGS had a senior exec reach out at the show to voice their concern of the damage to their brand.
What damage are you talking about?
I had a poor experience (unrelated to coins) many years ago and won’t buy anything on eBay. But I appreciate this is an issue for legitimate sellers whose businesses might be affected if the platform is swamped by fakes.
People buying "PCGS" coins that are in fake PCGS slabs. Kind of like fake Disney or Rolex or -- you name it. It damages the brand. People will get burned and not trust a PCGS slab.
I found this spot to give feedback and comment about the useless AI reporting system.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I'd think that one possible legal remedy is working through our respective state consumer protection departments; to have standing one might have to order a counterfeit and then file a complaint with the state which will contact ebay which clearly doesn't want to get on the bad side of state enforcement departments.
Until this week, I haven't bought a coin in over a year. I bought a constitutional silver collection, and it was as expected, a GSA 1882cc (being delivered today that is from a well known dealer and a VAM that I know is real (yeah sure!), and an 1879cc Morgan that was from a Texas seller, good feedback, that had a great pic of a genuine coin. But, of course got sent a Chinese slug and have filed a not as described with ebay to get the $500+ back. So, 2 for 3 is about right from what I'm seeing nowdays.
The chinese fake weighs 21.7 grams, just 5 grams shy! It's brass with some kind of coating (not shoe polish) that perhaps may be a silver coating. Seller did not respond to my "return" messages for two days but did leave poitive feedback. So, just filed a claim. Ebay now requires pics to process claim and I don't ever remember having to do that before. Are they learning? Teaching their AI?
bob
Pic of fake:
Seller pic:
When Ebay was first started back in 97 there was an escrow process. Maybe it is time to revive it?
That aggravates most people here who want immediate payment. [I don't care, personally. ]
This has been going on for decades with EBAY more or less saying What problem? Appears the best solution is just do business elsewhere.
@doug_davis, welcome to the 21st century. There has been an explosion of Chinese Fakes on eBay for 25+ years now. lol. THKS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
eBay asked me if I would like to review their app a few days ago. I did. For the record, I did not put the “in PA, or whatever” but I think it is just the right level of snarkiness.
Doug Davis PR.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
"Explosion Of Counterfeits Reported on eBay"...
In other breaking news... the sky is blue, and water has been shown to be definitively wet.
These scam guys play to the greed factor, pure and simple...and they wouldn't still be there if they weren't selling. There are a lot of new stacker wannabes with little to no knowledge of the market or its potential pitfalls who didn't get the memo that Santa Claus isn't on eBay/FB/Instagram/Etsy or anywhere else selling rare coins at 80% off wholesale, nor is he selling silver and gold below spot.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I got in on the sniping for awhile but wasn't very good at it so hung it up on that game years ago. If I can't "buy it now" I pass. Buying counterfeits on ebay never has been a problem for me but then I've educated myself about what to look for so it's not likely that I ever would get stuck with a Chinese counterfeit. The best thing one can do as far as ebay is concerned is to buy only from sellers that appear to have some integrity going for them. The rotten apple ebay sellers have a way of exposing themselves but it behooves one to learn what to look for to avoid them.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
NUMISMATIC CRIME INFORMATION CENTER? Anyone aware what it actually does/why it should be paid attention to?
Near as I can see, it was set up as a 501(c) charity in 2006 by an officer who retired from a small town rural police force in Texas (Department has 17 officers for town of 2500 people) .
Receipts have been under 25k yearly since its founding.....
http://www.w9ein.com/FEIN/company_overview.php/EIN/205565458/CompanyName/NUMISMATIC+CRIME+INFORMATION+CENTER
he has come on the forum asking for donations
my income stream has stopped and we're in don't spend territory
he has a website:
https://numismaticcrimes.org
and has a donation page:
https://numismaticcrimes.org/donate/
It collects reports of thefts and distributes them. I don't know that it actually does anything else.
I wish there was an explosion of counterfeits. Today would be a great day to blow them all up.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Certainly we can all agree the selling of counterfeit "Morgan" silver dollars has gotten out of hand.
peacockcoins
Your picture directly contradicts your comment, as clearly, that “Morgan” is IN (not out of that) hand.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Doug provides collectors and dealers great service when they are victims of numismatic crimes (e.g. theft, missing packages) and is extremely well respected in the dealer community. He works with postmasters, law enforcement and others to help victims connect with appropriate resources, publicize incidents and understand the best steps to take to recover property. Hopefully you never need his help.
eBay doesn't care. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????