@Goldbully said:
Anyone remember Ron Harrigal? Thank you for your great contributions to the modern Mint coin technology.
From the LCR Description: "former U.S. Mint Director of Design and Engraving, Harrigal was instrumental in developing the privy mark program and introducing advanced laser-engraving techniques that made this coin’s micro-detailing possible. His signature makes this release a full-circle tribute to numismatic innovation, artistry, and national pride."
@jmlanzaf said:
They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
I also miss the old website and the excitement of the crashes to get in. It was kind of like deep sea fishing in heavy seas where you could land a big one or also get your line snapped.
BTW I now expect the mint will raise the product limit for the next two releases.
edited to add: I'm still amazed that these coins sold out around 3:35pm EST......that's 3 1/2 hours of selling 90k coins one at a time....incredible!!
Back in the day, they would have sold out in 20 minutes. I'm surprised it took that long
Not that quantity with a HHL of 1. The site would have been continually crashing, and it never would have gone to Sold Out in the first 24 hours.
What's impressive is that they FINALLY figured out how to scale the site to move 90K items, one at a time, without crashing, in just a few hours.
The fact that Pinehurst's bid already dropped by $45 certainly explains who 90K were sold to. Everything is now moving at hyper speed.
In the past, the Mint never would have been able to sell 100K of anything, one at a time, in 3 hours, let alone 20 minutes. And, the flip wouldn't have been cut in half the same day, a full month before anything even ships.
It looks like people who chase the order cancellations at 7:30 might be disappointed in what they will be able to get for them. It doesn't look like they will get hurt. But, given how many of these already went to flippers, and what the aftermarket bids are already doing, there might not be a robust market for the people trying to flip quantity in the next week or two.
You forget. They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
@jmlanzaf said:
They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
I also miss the old website and the excitement of the crashes to get in. It was kind of like deep sea fishing in heavy seas where you could land a big one or also get your line snapped.
BTW I now expect the mint will raise the product limit for the next two releases.
Why? They achieved their objective of achieving a wide distribution, and still easily sold out in a few hours. Why would they want to reward flippers to the detriment of people who actually want one to keep?
@jmlanzaf said:
They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
I also miss the old website and the excitement of the crashes to get in. It was kind of like deep sea fishing in heavy seas where you could land a big one or also get your line snapped.
BTW I now expect the mint will raise the product limit for the next two releases.
Why? They achieved their objective of achieving a wide distribution, and still easily sold out in a few hours. Why would they want to reward flippers to the detriment of people who actually want one to keep?
Agreed. The criticism against the mint was always that collectors who wanted one couldn't get one at issue price. For the first time ever for a high demand item, mission accomplished. Maybe there was another time, but this was one of the first times.
Ordered just after 2pm, no waiting room, in and out within two minutes, civilized process. Much better than the V75 and first run of the Morgans a few years back, seems to be less demand though.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
I believe the advent of the "Waiting Room" has made the Mint's online store a model for high volume, in-demand widgets.
A lot of us(me included) scoffed at the thought of a waiting room when it was introduced a few years ago.
In retrospect, it is a stroke of genius and made today's 90k ASE sales(only one per customer) relatively painless.
Guaranteed they did not sell 90k today. Obvious purchasing in excess of HH limits was noted by one post here earlier.
Absolutely USM cancellations will happen to all those who tried to purchase more than one on one account.
@HalfDime said:
I'm expecting a lot of cancellations for these as many tried to skirt the rules (it sounds) so opportunity is still there when the mint culls through
@coiner said:
Guaranteed they did not sell 90k today. Obvious purchasing in excess of HH limits was noted by one post here earlier.
Absolutely USM cancellations will happen to all those who tried to purchase more than one on one account.
Yes, but 10-20k will come back with HHL lifeted after noon tomorrow they will be snapped right up.
@Goldbully said:
Anyone remember Ron Harrigal? Thank you for your great contributions to the modern Mint coin technology.
From the LCR Description: "former U.S. Mint Director of Design and Engraving, Harrigal was instrumental in developing the privy mark program and introducing advanced laser-engraving techniques that made this coin’s micro-detailing possible. His signature makes this release a full-circle tribute to numismatic innovation, artistry, and national pride."
Don't remember Ron but if you talk to him ask if he wants to buy mine. THKS!
edited to add: I'm still amazed that these coins sold out around 3:35pm EST......that's 3 1/2 hours of selling 90k coins one at a time....incredible!!
Back in the day, they would have sold out in 20 minutes. I'm surprised it took that long
Not that quantity with a HHL of 1. The site would have been continually crashing, and it never would have gone to Sold Out in the first 24 hours.
What's impressive is that they FINALLY figured out how to scale the site to move 90K items, one at a time, without crashing, in just a few hours.
The fact that Pinehurst's bid already dropped by $45 certainly explains who 90K were sold to. Everything is now moving at hyper speed.
In the past, the Mint never would have been able to sell 100K of anything, one at a time, in 3 hours, let alone 20 minutes. And, the flip wouldn't have been cut in half the same day, a full month before anything even ships.
It looks like people who chase the order cancellations at 7:30 might be disappointed in what they will be able to get for them. It doesn't look like they will get hurt. But, given how many of these already went to flippers, and what the aftermarket bids are already doing, there might not be a robust market for the people trying to flip quantity in the next week or two.
You forget. They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
@coiner said:
Guaranteed they did not sell 90k today. Obvious purchasing in excess of HH limits was noted by one post here earlier.
Absolutely USM cancellations will happen to all those who tried to purchase more than one on one account.
They sold 90k. Whether they remain sold is another issue.
Been at this game many many years. So have some on this forum.
90k orders were taken-authorized cards.
HH limits evaders to be cancelled. Easy peasy check by running a quick script. One per account. Everything else cancelled.
@coiner said:
You and I both know they technically didn’t sell 90k today
They took orders for 90k.
They will be cancelling a whole bunch of HH limits evaders.
I know it's semantics and technicalities, but the mint could choose to fulfill those orders if they wish. Therefore I would consider them sold until the mint takes the action to un-sell them.
@coiner said:
You and I both know they technically didn’t sell 90k today
They took orders for 90k.
They will be cancelling a whole bunch of HH limits evaders.
I know it's semantics and technicalities, but the mint could choose to fulfill those orders if they wish. Therefore I would consider them sold until the mint takes the action to un-sell them.
Not correct.
Violation of HH limits are cancelled.
You will also have many CC transaction issues.
It happens all the time.
@coiner said:
it’s not semantics. The coins aren’t sold until the charge hits your card as permanent and the coin is shipped.
They took ORDERS for 90k.
Yes, and people might return them too.
The coins are sold. The mint can fulfill the orders if they want, HHL violation or failed payment, it's still the mint's choice whether they follow their policies or not. The mint can un-sell them for whatever reason they wish but until they do that they cannot sell any more. As of right now, all coins are sold.
@NJCoin said:
Why? They achieved their objective of achieving a wide distribution, and still easily sold out in a few hours. Why would they want to reward flippers to the detriment of people who actually want one to keep?
The problem the mint had in the past was bandwidth for the store, and they needed to get a better provider to cover the buyers when they showed up. The new website is fairly worse than the old one. The schedule takes multiple clicks on to load compared to the old one which many buyers may not do. The product display pages are worse. This is party why sales are actually lower now, and not higher. This should have been a 225,000 product.
I am expecting record low sales for some other products going forward. If things were better that would not be happening.
The most interesting fast sell-out was the first set of 5 ounce silver quarters that were only 33,000. All that fighting over them and they are worth about the same. They also gave some to bulk buyers.
@coiner said:
it’s not semantics. The coins aren’t sold until the charge hits your card as permanent and the coin is shipped.
They took ORDERS for 90k.
Yes, and people might return them too.
The coins are sold. The mint can fulfill the orders if they want, HHL violation or failed payment, it's still the mint's choice whether they follow their policies or not. The mint can un-sell them for whatever reason they wish but until they do that they cannot sell any more. As of right now, all coins are sold.
The mint will not fulfill HH limit violations, period. I don’t know where you dream up your rant—but fulfilling orders that violate HH limits is not reality.
I know those that tried-and all of their orders got cancelled. Many examples of this happening. I have never heard of ONE example of a true HH limit violation order being filled.
The mint took 90k ORDERS. Get the lingo correct.
They will review the orders for HH limits violations, credit card failures, mismatched or bad addresses, etc.
They are not sold until the pass all those checks and are shipped.
@coiner said:
it’s not semantics. The coins aren’t sold until the charge hits your card as permanent and the coin is shipped.
They took ORDERS for 90k.
Yes, and people might return them too.
The coins are sold. The mint can fulfill the orders if they want, HHL violation or failed payment, it's still the mint's choice whether they follow their policies or not. The mint can un-sell them for whatever reason they wish but until they do that they cannot sell any more. As of right now, all coins are sold.
The mint will not fulfill HH limit violations, period. I don’t know where you dream up your rant—but fulfilling orders that violate HH limits is not reality.
I know those that tried-and all of their orders got cancelled. Many examples of this happening. I have never heard of ONE example of a true HH limit violation order being filled.
I'm glad you can predict the future.
They have not cancelled the orders YET, so as of right now, the coins are SOLD. Whether they will be tomorrow or next week, I can't predict that either.
I would bet that probably no more than 60-70k are good orders—meaning they will be fulfilled.
I would bet at least 20k coins will be available over the next 5 weeks.
@coiner said:
Guaranteed they did not sell 90k today. Obvious purchasing in excess of HH limits was noted by one post here earlier.
Absolutely USM cancellations will happen to all those who tried to purchase more than one on one account.
Okay. And they will disappear in a flash when they appear at 7:30 a.m.
So what's your point? That they did not process orders for 90K, one at a time, in 3.5 hours?
Or that they couldn't have sold 90K in a day but for the cheating?
Which also doesn't matter. Because while I didn't think they'd sell out in 3.5 hours, when I saw dealer bids at $205, I had no doubt they'd sell out in 24 hours and 1 minute.
You also guaranteed FH gold privys would never be worth more than fraction of what a V75 AGE was worth, didn't you?
edited to add: I'm still amazed that these coins sold out around 3:35pm EST......that's 3 1/2 hours of selling 90k coins one at a time....incredible!!
Back in the day, they would have sold out in 20 minutes. I'm surprised it took that long
Not that quantity with a HHL of 1. The site would have been continually crashing, and it never would have gone to Sold Out in the first 24 hours.
What's impressive is that they FINALLY figured out how to scale the site to move 90K items, one at a time, without crashing, in just a few hours.
The fact that Pinehurst's bid already dropped by $45 certainly explains who 90K were sold to. Everything is now moving at hyper speed.
In the past, the Mint never would have been able to sell 100K of anything, one at a time, in 3 hours, let alone 20 minutes. And, the flip wouldn't have been cut in half the same day, a full month before anything even ships.
It looks like people who chase the order cancellations at 7:30 might be disappointed in what they will be able to get for them. It doesn't look like they will get hurt. But, given how many of these already went to flippers, and what the aftermarket bids are already doing, there might not be a robust market for the people trying to flip quantity in the next week or two.
You forget. They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
With all due respect, you're making my point. 225K with a HHL of 5 is equivalent to 45K at a HHL of 1. Not 100K. Or 90K. Same with something with a mintage of 30K.
I don't remember anything in 2021 with a 125K mintage and a HHL of 1 selling out 20 minutes. Sorry. If it happened, I guess you got me there.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
I don't think "Bots" play any role in this "Waiting Room" system. I'd rather wait a little longer than have to face that issue and have a better chance to get what I want.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
I don't think "Bots" play any role in this "Waiting Room" system. I'd rather wait a little longer than have to face that issue and have a better chance to get what I want.
That wasn't my point. The demand for this issue was strong but not that strong. Back in the day, bots or no bots, it never would have taken that many hours to sell out. The waiting room was gone long before it sold out.
@coiner said:
it’s not semantics. The coins aren’t sold until the charge hits your card as permanent and the coin is shipped.
They took ORDERS for 90k.
Yes, and people might return them too.
The coins are sold. The mint can fulfill the orders if they want, HHL violation or failed payment, it's still the mint's choice whether they follow their policies or not. The mint can un-sell them for whatever reason they wish but until they do that they cannot sell any more. As of right now, all coins are sold.
The mint will not fulfill HH limit violations, period. I don’t know where you dream up your rant—but fulfilling orders that violate HH limits is not reality.
I know those that tried-and all of their orders got cancelled. Many examples of this happening. I have never heard of ONE example of a true HH limit violation order being filled.
This is a highly semantic argument. They "sold" at least temporarily. The orders may get canceled, whether that is 5 or 100 or 1000, we don't know. What are you trying to argue? That demand really isn't that strong?
edited to add: I'm still amazed that these coins sold out around 3:35pm EST......that's 3 1/2 hours of selling 90k coins one at a time....incredible!!
Back in the day, they would have sold out in 20 minutes. I'm surprised it took that long
Not that quantity with a HHL of 1. The site would have been continually crashing, and it never would have gone to Sold Out in the first 24 hours.
What's impressive is that they FINALLY figured out how to scale the site to move 90K items, one at a time, without crashing, in just a few hours.
The fact that Pinehurst's bid already dropped by $45 certainly explains who 90K were sold to. Everything is now moving at hyper speed.
In the past, the Mint never would have been able to sell 100K of anything, one at a time, in 3 hours, let alone 20 minutes. And, the flip wouldn't have been cut in half the same day, a full month before anything even ships.
It looks like people who chase the order cancellations at 7:30 might be disappointed in what they will be able to get for them. It doesn't look like they will get hurt. But, given how many of these already went to flippers, and what the aftermarket bids are already doing, there might not be a robust market for the people trying to flip quantity in the next week or two.
You forget. They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
With all due respect, you're making my point. 225K with a HHL of 5 is equivalent to 45K at a HHL of 1. Not 100K. Or 90K. Same with something with a mintage of 30K.
I don't remember anything in 2021 with a 125K mintage and a HHL of 1 selling out 20 minutes. Sorry. If it happened, I guess you got me there.
You said they couldn't prices orders that fast. That's untrue as these exams prove. 45,000+ orders in 6 minutes is 7000+ orders per minute. Over 20 minutes, that's 140,000+ orders.
Ask any of the flippers. The 20 minute sell out was commonplace for hot issues. The fact that it took so many hours to sell out after the waiting room closed indicates a more tepid response than I might have expected, especially for an ASE. 100k used to be an instant sellout for any ASE. Demand for these was good but not blistering, especially with buyers' club involvement. This coin will be a long term financial loser.
NJCoin-not so fast…
You being the one who insisted they didn’t short strike the FH Silver…..wow now that was a right on prediction…you blew that one big time.
For a guy who bought one coin you had a lot to say; meanwhile myself and others TOLD you that we were 99% sure it was short struck at around 10k coins—-and by the way I got at least 125 coins and three Privies.
Egg will be on your face again.
Just how many of those Gold privies actually traded hands for 50-80k after the original sale? Not many.
Anybody keeping score on ASE PRIVY MARKS? So far we have the V75, the Star, the Eagle, and now the Army privies. And don't forget there were V75 privy marks on the 2020 quarters as well.
I think the placement of this Army Privy is perfect...centered in the open field.
edited to add: I'm still amazed that these coins sold out around 3:35pm EST......that's 3 1/2 hours of selling 90k coins one at a time....incredible!!
Back in the day, they would have sold out in 20 minutes. I'm surprised it took that long
Not that quantity with a HHL of 1. The site would have been continually crashing, and it never would have gone to Sold Out in the first 24 hours.
What's impressive is that they FINALLY figured out how to scale the site to move 90K items, one at a time, without crashing, in just a few hours.
The fact that Pinehurst's bid already dropped by $45 certainly explains who 90K were sold to. Everything is now moving at hyper speed.
In the past, the Mint never would have been able to sell 100K of anything, one at a time, in 3 hours, let alone 20 minutes. And, the flip wouldn't have been cut in half the same day, a full month before anything even ships.
It looks like people who chase the order cancellations at 7:30 might be disappointed in what they will be able to get for them. It doesn't look like they will get hurt. But, given how many of these already went to flippers, and what the aftermarket bids are already doing, there might not be a robust market for the people trying to flip quantity in the next week or two.
You forget. They used to sell out 100k+ in 20 minutes with HHL of 1. Yes, there were crashes and the like. But there were also 500k+ people online at the same time.
Mintages of 50k or less used to sell out in under 10 minutes.
Edited to add: I kind of miss the adrenaline of it. I would have 5 accounts open on 3 devices constantly hitting refresh until I got in. All to get 5 coins that usually only made me $100 TOTAL. Sometimes less. Lol. It was an exciting 5 to 30 minutes. At 12:30, I'd be on the phone comparing notes with my dealer friend Wade. I miss him.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
With all due respect, you're making my point. 225K with a HHL of 5 is equivalent to 45K at a HHL of 1. Not 100K. Or 90K. Same with something with a mintage of 30K.
I don't remember anything in 2021 with a 125K mintage and a HHL of 1 selling out 20 minutes. Sorry. If it happened, I guess you got me there.
You said they couldn't prices orders that fast. That's untrue as these exams prove. 45,000+ orders in 6 minutes is 7000+ orders per minute. Over 20 minutes, that's 140,000+ orders.
Ask any of the flippers. The 20 minute sell out was commonplace for hot issues. The fact that it took so many hours to sell out after the waiting room closed indicates a more tepid response than I might have expected, especially for an ASE. 100k used to be an instant sellout for any ASE. Demand for these was good but not blistering, especially with buyers' club involvement. This coin will be a long term financial loser.
You might be right. I never ran the numbers on just how many orders were processed over 6 minutes when they went that fast, given all the coins that were sold early to dealers, and how difficult it was to bring an order to completion back then.
All I remember is not being able to get to the order confirmation screen before being kicked out. What I don't remember is anything with a 6 figure mintage limit and a HHL of 1 going unavailable in under an hour. I can't confirm or deny 45K orders being processed in 6 minutes. That sounds very high given their bandwidth back then.
All this said, the aggressive pricing out the gate for these never made sense to me, given the mintage and the data we have regarding how similar items are priced. $1,000 for AR 70s is just nuts, given that there could be close to 10K of them. As was $200 wholesale.
Calling the demand "tepid," though, is something else entirely. They DID sell 90K, one at a time, in well under 4 hours. Thousands will come back via busted order from buying club members. Not "at least 20K" as @coiner thinks, but still.
They will be gone in an instant, all of them, because they will be worth significantly more than $105, even if not $205. If you want to call that "tepid" because their new system can't process 20K transactions simultaneously, or because 100K individuals didn't all put their lives on hold at exactly 12:00 noon to claim their $100 from Pinehurst, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Because, based on what happened last year with the FH silver, I didn't expect these to sell out until the HHL was lifted. And, due to the embedded lottery ticket, I don't think anyone considered demand for the FH silver medals to be "tepid," even though it took the Mint a little over 24 hours to sell 50K of them, less what the Big Boys got in advance. One at a time for the first 24 hours.
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
I don't think "Bots" play any role in this "Waiting Room" system. I'd rather wait a little longer than have to face that issue and have a better chance to get what I want.
That wasn't my point. The demand for this issue was strong but not that strong. Back in the day, bots or no bots, it never would have taken that many hours to sell out. The waiting room was gone long before it sold out.
I think the only point about bots is that they can complete an order a lot faster than a human can. So they would contribute to more orders being processed faster in the past.
@coiner said:
NJCoin-not so fast…
You being the one who insisted they didn’t short strike the FH Silver…..wow now that was a right on prediction…you blew that one big time.
For a guy who bought one coin you had a lot to say; meanwhile myself and others TOLD you that we were 99% sure it was short struck at around 10k coins—-and by the way I got at least 125 coins and three Privies.
Egg will be on your face again.
Just how many of those Gold privies actually traded hands for 50-80k after the original sale? Not many.
You are confusing gold with silver. Yes, I was wrong about them short striking the silver, with the lottery ticket, because it never occurred to me they would do such a thing. That has nothing to do with our extensive debate, before during and after, the gold privy auction.
Don't make me go back and pull the tapes. You were sure the gold privys would be dogs. They weren't.
You predicted a price, and were off by a factor of 3-5x. They don't trade because there are only 230 of them in existence, and because they are in strong hands. Not because they are only worth 2-3x spot, and the people who have them are stubbornly refusing to take their losses.
You think "at least" a quarter of what the Mint "sold," yes "sold" yesterday will be coming back due to HHL violations. You are as spot on now as you were with the FH gold privys.
@coiner said:
NJCoin-not so fast…
You being the one who insisted they didn’t short strike the FH Silver…..wow now that was a right on prediction…you blew that one big time.
For a guy who bought one coin you had a lot to say; meanwhile myself and others TOLD you that we were 99% sure it was short struck at around 10k coins—-and by the way I got at least 125 coins and three Privies.
Egg will be on your face again.
Just how many of those Gold privies actually traded hands for 50-80k after the original sale? Not many.
You are confusing gold with silver. Yes, I was wrong about them short striking the silver, with the lottery ticket, because it never occurred to me they would do such a thing. That has nothing to do with our extensive debate, before during and after, the gold privy auction.
Don't make me go back and pull the tapes. You were sure the gold privys would be dogs. They weren't.
You predicted a price, and were off by a factor of 3-5x. They don't trade because there are only 230 of them in existence, and because they are in strong hands. Not because they are only worth 2-3x spot, and the people who have them are stubbornly refusing to take their losses.
You think "at least" a quarter of what the Mint "sold," yes "sold" yesterday will be coming back due to HHL violations. You are as spot on now as you were with the FH gold privys.
Not confusing anything at all.
You totally blew the prediction on the silvers and dug yourself a deep hole. I do t know who would even put 2 cents worth of effort reading your nonsense.
The gold privy is a dog—would not want to be b$lls deep in that coin at 35k
Tell me how many traded hands since the auction? 5, 10?
Definitely a big number will become available —and I’ll partake of a couple hundred.
Looks like the USM didn’t reconcile their orders yet and kick out the HH violations.
They briefly came up today at 12:01pm but with the limit still at 1.
I suppose this will be a daily morning lottery for the next week or two.
@coiner said:
NJCoin-not so fast…
You being the one who insisted they didn’t short strike the FH Silver…..wow now that was a right on prediction…you blew that one big time.
For a guy who bought one coin you had a lot to say; meanwhile myself and others TOLD you that we were 99% sure it was short struck at around 10k coins—-and by the way I got at least 125 coins and three Privies.
Egg will be on your face again.
Just how many of those Gold privies actually traded hands for 50-80k after the original sale? Not many.
You are confusing gold with silver. Yes, I was wrong about them short striking the silver, with the lottery ticket, because it never occurred to me they would do such a thing. That has nothing to do with our extensive debate, before during and after, the gold privy auction.
Don't make me go back and pull the tapes. You were sure the gold privys would be dogs. They weren't.
You predicted a price, and were off by a factor of 3-5x. They don't trade because there are only 230 of them in existence, and because they are in strong hands. Not because they are only worth 2-3x spot, and the people who have them are stubbornly refusing to take their losses.
You think "at least" a quarter of what the Mint "sold," yes "sold" yesterday will be coming back due to HHL violations. You are as spot on now as you were with the FH gold privys.
Not confusing anything at all.
You totally blew the prediction on the silvers and dug yourself a deep hole. I do t know who would even put 2 cents worth of effort reading your nonsense.
The gold privy is a dog—would not want to be b$lls deep in that coin at 35k
Tell me how many traded hands since the auction? 5, 10?
Definitely a big number will become available —and I’ll partake of a couple hundred.
Yes, I "totally blew the prediction on the silvers and dug myself a deep hole." I was wrong. See? It only hurts for a minute.
Are you ever going to admit you "totally blew the prediction on the gold and dug yourself a deep hole"?
And then you picked up the shovel to dig on this one.
"I would bet that probably no more than 60-70k are good orders—meaning they will be fulfilled.
I would bet at least 20k coins will be available over the next 5 weeks." 🤣🤣🤣
Comments
That's a heck of a price for an autograph of a virtual unknown.
I also miss the old website and the excitement of the crashes to get in. It was kind of like deep sea fishing in heavy seas where you could land a big one or also get your line snapped.
BTW I now expect the mint will raise the product limit for the next two releases.
You're right. I do forget. I remember HHLs of 5 or 10 with 100K mintages. Never 1, with a 20 minute sellout.
Because they had absolutely no way to process that many transactions that quickly. Period, let alone given the repeated website freezes and crashes.
They still don't. The website ran flawlessly today. Inventory steadily declined until it was gone. Still took 3.5 hours to process 90K orders. They NEVER processed anywhere near 90K transactions in 20 minutes.
Yes, they had lots of super quick sellouts. But with lower mintages and higher HHLs.
Why? They achieved their objective of achieving a wide distribution, and still easily sold out in a few hours. Why would they want to reward flippers to the detriment of people who actually want one to keep?
Agreed. The criticism against the mint was always that collectors who wanted one couldn't get one at issue price. For the first time ever for a high demand item, mission accomplished. Maybe there was another time, but this was one of the first times.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Ordered just after 2pm, no waiting room, in and out within two minutes, civilized process. Much better than the V75 and first run of the Morgans a few years back, seems to be less demand though.
flippers can still be in control via friends and family network
>
I believe the advent of the "Waiting Room" has made the Mint's online store a model for high volume, in-demand widgets.
A lot of us(me included) scoffed at the thought of a waiting room when it was introduced a few years ago.
In retrospect, it is a stroke of genius and made today's 90k ASE sales(only one per customer) relatively painless.
Hats off to the Mint.
Guaranteed they did not sell 90k today. Obvious purchasing in excess of HH limits was noted by one post here earlier.
Absolutely USM cancellations will happen to all those who tried to purchase more than one on one account.
This^^^
100% on the money.
Yes, but 10-20k will come back with HHL lifeted after noon tomorrow they will be snapped right up.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Don't remember Ron but if you talk to him ask if he wants to buy mine. THKS!
You are incorrect. However, I'll let someone else chime in. The waiting room actually slows down the orders.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
I can see my order history on my flips. I always bought the HHL. The 30,000 2019 reverse proof eagles sold out in under 10 minutes with an HHL of 1.
The 2021 2 coin reverse proof set had 125,000 mintage and HHL of 1.
They sold 90k. Whether they remain sold is another issue.
You and I both know they technically didn’t sell 90k today
They took orders for 90k.
They will be cancelling a whole bunch of HH limits evaders.
Been at this game many many years. So have some on this forum.
90k orders were taken-authorized cards.
HH limits evaders to be cancelled. Easy peasy check by running a quick script. One per account. Everything else cancelled.
They sold-out the 225,000 2017 EU sets in 6 minutes with an HHL of 5, as i recall.
This ^^^^ was a mess. And cancellations blew that deal wide open
Anyone want to buy some 1976 proof sets?
Casual collector: Morgans & Peace Dollars & 20th Century Type Set. Successful BST transactions with ProofCollection, Morgan13, CoinFinder, CoinHunter4, Bretsan.
I know it's semantics and technicalities, but the mint could choose to fulfill those orders if they wish. Therefore I would consider them sold until the mint takes the action to un-sell them.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Not correct.
Violation of HH limits are cancelled.
You will also have many CC transaction issues.
It happens all the time.
it’s not semantics. The coins aren’t sold until the charge hits your card as permanent and the coin is shipped.
They took ORDERS for 90k.
Yes, and people might return them too.
The coins are sold. The mint can fulfill the orders if they want, HHL violation or failed payment, it's still the mint's choice whether they follow their policies or not. The mint can un-sell them for whatever reason they wish but until they do that they cannot sell any more. As of right now, all coins are sold.
http://ProofCollection.Net
The problem the mint had in the past was bandwidth for the store, and they needed to get a better provider to cover the buyers when they showed up. The new website is fairly worse than the old one. The schedule takes multiple clicks on to load compared to the old one which many buyers may not do. The product display pages are worse. This is party why sales are actually lower now, and not higher. This should have been a 225,000 product.
I am expecting record low sales for some other products going forward. If things were better that would not be happening.
The most interesting fast sell-out was the first set of 5 ounce silver quarters that were only 33,000. All that fighting over them and they are worth about the same. They also gave some to bulk buyers.
The mint will not fulfill HH limit violations, period. I don’t know where you dream up your rant—but fulfilling orders that violate HH limits is not reality.
I know those that tried-and all of their orders got cancelled. Many examples of this happening. I have never heard of ONE example of a true HH limit violation order being filled.
The mint took 90k ORDERS. Get the lingo correct.
They will review the orders for HH limits violations, credit card failures, mismatched or bad addresses, etc.
They are not sold until the pass all those checks and are shipped.
I'm glad you can predict the future.
They have not cancelled the orders YET, so as of right now, the coins are SOLD. Whether they will be tomorrow or next week, I can't predict that either.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I would bet that probably no more than 60-70k are good orders—meaning they will be fulfilled.
I would bet at least 20k coins will be available over the next 5 weeks.
Okay. And they will disappear in a flash when they appear at 7:30 a.m.
So what's your point? That they did not process orders for 90K, one at a time, in 3.5 hours?
Or that they couldn't have sold 90K in a day but for the cheating?
Which also doesn't matter. Because while I didn't think they'd sell out in 3.5 hours, when I saw dealer bids at $205, I had no doubt they'd sell out in 24 hours and 1 minute.
You also guaranteed FH gold privys would never be worth more than fraction of what a V75 AGE was worth, didn't you?
With all due respect, you're making my point. 225K with a HHL of 5 is equivalent to 45K at a HHL of 1. Not 100K. Or 90K. Same with something with a mintage of 30K.
I don't remember anything in 2021 with a 125K mintage and a HHL of 1 selling out 20 minutes. Sorry. If it happened, I guess you got me there.
there were times in the past where people would get a notice from the mint with apologies for them being unable to fulfill their order - oversold them
I don't think "Bots" play any role in this "Waiting Room" system. I'd rather wait a little longer than have to face that issue and have a better chance to get what I want.
.> @coiner said:
Yes. In the end, it only sold like 190k units. That was a mess.
That wasn't my point. The demand for this issue was strong but not that strong. Back in the day, bots or no bots, it never would have taken that many hours to sell out. The waiting room was gone long before it sold out.
This is a highly semantic argument. They "sold" at least temporarily. The orders may get canceled, whether that is 5 or 100 or 1000, we don't know. What are you trying to argue? That demand really isn't that strong?
You said they couldn't prices orders that fast. That's untrue as these exams prove. 45,000+ orders in 6 minutes is 7000+ orders per minute. Over 20 minutes, that's 140,000+ orders.
Ask any of the flippers. The 20 minute sell out was commonplace for hot issues. The fact that it took so many hours to sell out after the waiting room closed indicates a more tepid response than I might have expected, especially for an ASE. 100k used to be an instant sellout for any ASE. Demand for these was good but not blistering, especially with buyers' club involvement. This coin will be a long term financial loser.
NJCoin-not so fast…
You being the one who insisted they didn’t short strike the FH Silver…..wow now that was a right on prediction…you blew that one big time.
For a guy who bought one coin you had a lot to say; meanwhile myself and others TOLD you that we were 99% sure it was short struck at around 10k coins—-and by the way I got at least 125 coins and three Privies.
Egg will be on your face again.
Just how many of those Gold privies actually traded hands for 50-80k after the original sale? Not many.
Anybody keeping score on ASE PRIVY MARKS? So far we have the V75, the Star, the Eagle, and now the Army privies. And don't forget there were V75 privy marks on the 2020 quarters as well.
I think the placement of this Army Privy is perfect...centered in the open field.
Nothing this AM.
No flip this morning
Well that’ll make for a quicker scooping up of the cancellations if the first flip is after the 24 hr HHL lift
You might be right. I never ran the numbers on just how many orders were processed over 6 minutes when they went that fast, given all the coins that were sold early to dealers, and how difficult it was to bring an order to completion back then.
All I remember is not being able to get to the order confirmation screen before being kicked out. What I don't remember is anything with a 6 figure mintage limit and a HHL of 1 going unavailable in under an hour. I can't confirm or deny 45K orders being processed in 6 minutes. That sounds very high given their bandwidth back then.
All this said, the aggressive pricing out the gate for these never made sense to me, given the mintage and the data we have regarding how similar items are priced. $1,000 for AR 70s is just nuts, given that there could be close to 10K of them. As was $200 wholesale.
Calling the demand "tepid," though, is something else entirely. They DID sell 90K, one at a time, in well under 4 hours. Thousands will come back via busted order from buying club members. Not "at least 20K" as @coiner thinks, but still.
They will be gone in an instant, all of them, because they will be worth significantly more than $105, even if not $205. If you want to call that "tepid" because their new system can't process 20K transactions simultaneously, or because 100K individuals didn't all put their lives on hold at exactly 12:00 noon to claim their $100 from Pinehurst, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Because, based on what happened last year with the FH silver, I didn't expect these to sell out until the HHL was lifted. And, due to the embedded lottery ticket, I don't think anyone considered demand for the FH silver medals to be "tepid," even though it took the Mint a little over 24 hours to sell 50K of them, less what the Big Boys got in advance. One at a time for the first 24 hours.
I think the only point about bots is that they can complete an order a lot faster than a human can. So they would contribute to more orders being processed faster in the past.
You are confusing gold with silver. Yes, I was wrong about them short striking the silver, with the lottery ticket, because it never occurred to me they would do such a thing. That has nothing to do with our extensive debate, before during and after, the gold privy auction.
Don't make me go back and pull the tapes. You were sure the gold privys would be dogs. They weren't.
You predicted a price, and were off by a factor of 3-5x. They don't trade because there are only 230 of them in existence, and because they are in strong hands. Not because they are only worth 2-3x spot, and the people who have them are stubbornly refusing to take their losses.
You think "at least" a quarter of what the Mint "sold," yes "sold" yesterday will be coming back due to HHL violations. You are as spot on now as you were with the FH gold privys.
Briefly available, but HHL still one.
Reportedly only 314 in stock. Not the deluge some expected. And what's up with HHL not being lifted yet?
Not confusing anything at all.
You totally blew the prediction on the silvers and dug yourself a deep hole. I do t know who would even put 2 cents worth of effort reading your nonsense.
The gold privy is a dog—would not want to be b$lls deep in that coin at 35k
Tell me how many traded hands since the auction? 5, 10?
Definitely a big number will become available —and I’ll partake of a couple hundred.
Looks like the USM didn’t reconcile their orders yet and kick out the HH violations.
They briefly came up today at 12:01pm but with the limit still at 1.
I suppose this will be a daily morning lottery for the next week or two.
Yes, I "totally blew the prediction on the silvers and dug myself a deep hole." I was wrong. See? It only hurts for a minute.
Are you ever going to admit you "totally blew the prediction on the gold and dug yourself a deep hole"?
And then you picked up the shovel to dig on this one.
"I would bet that probably no more than 60-70k are good orders—meaning they will be fulfilled.
I would bet at least 20k coins will be available over the next 5 weeks." 🤣🤣🤣