I thought the chart was interesting and pertained to recent discussions but I don't know what conclusions to draw or how some of those lines were calculated. Clearly for stocks it probably reflects an index which has changed composition significantly over the years. The problem with any chart is of course deciding where to start it lest you be accused of cherry picking anything, but I'm not sure there's an unbiased date from which to start such a chart either.
I guess the conclusion to draw from the chart can be that until Nixon closed the gold window gold held stead in value and since then has been volatile.
Perhaps a more interesting chart is Gold divided by Dow Jones. I would say we've bottomed and the gold looks set to outperform stocks in a pretty serious way.
India
5-6-2025
India says it has launched strikes in Pakistan-controlled area.
The strikes come after last month’s deadly attack on tourists in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir.
Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' - after India fires missiles on 'terrorist camps'
India said it had carried out a "precision strike" on "terrorist camps" - but Pakistan's defence minister said all the targets hit were civilian places, not militant camps.
Tuesday 6 May 2025 23:05
@RonB said:
India
5-6-2025
India says it has launched strikes in Pakistan-controlled area.
The strikes come after last month’s deadly attack on tourists in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir.
Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' - after India fires missiles on 'terrorist camps'
India said it had carried out a "precision strike" on "terrorist camps" - but Pakistan's defence minister said all the targets hit were civilian places, not militant camps.
Tuesday 6 May 2025 23:05
black swan rearing its ugly head? both have nukes. Got Gold?
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
@RonB said:
India
5-6-2025
India says it has launched strikes in Pakistan-controlled area.
The strikes come after last month’s deadly attack on tourists in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir.
Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' - after India fires missiles on 'terrorist camps'
India said it had carried out a "precision strike" on "terrorist camps" - but Pakistan's defence minister said all the targets hit were civilian places, not militant camps.
Tuesday 6 May 2025 23:05
black swan rearing its ugly head? both have nukes. Got Gold?
Is me gold gonna save me from the nukes? I got's it but looks like it immediately dropped $40 right off the Asia open. Crazy Times. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Yikes! Down 2% right now. Those metals sure are unpredictable. Guess everyone is thinking that "Is me gold gonna save me from the nukes?" like you said Blitz.
@MsMorrisine said:
selective graphing? haven't heard that one a million times
perhaps it can be settled with more charts and chats? or not
That's why you use rolling time periods like market professionals. No arbitrary starting or ending points, and it is what is closest to real-world people investing over time.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
The refiners are always willing buyers a few percent under spot. Financial instruments like futures allow them to maintain a neutral position so it is always profitable for them to buy with those margins.
Dude, I like PMs just like y'all. Gold, silver, platinum....I got em.
and there is the fact of this:
And....I'd rather collect interest than not
you're not collecting interest on that and there is counter-party risk
i don't consider myself an antagonist
Yeah, I have gold and silver and platinum and it sucks when their value does not increase. And there is very little counter-party risk. Certainly less than the guy shopping around 90%, who could be looking at a 5-20% risk.
If given the choice of collecting interest or not, I believe almost everyone would rather collect interest. Would not you?
This all started when goldfinger stated gold.might sit at 3000 for a few years. I said I'd rather earn 5% interest than sit with no price appreciation. And I get attacked, which seems quite silly, as yall seem to be saying you'd rather earn nothing than 5%. Makes no sense.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
i don't want to get into the "pick-your-timeframe" bickering
so, i'll just say supposine 5 years is an assumption leading into the hypothetical. it seems like another opportunity to time the market and justifying it wit some past data
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
.
There is no "counter-party" until a contract (verbal or written, to buy and sell) has been agreed to by both parties.
90% silver coin traded by weight or a multiple of face value is pretty liquid because there is a fairly broad established market for it.
If you are offered 20% under the market for something, simply go elsewhere (like a coin show, for example).
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
Illiquid market for 90% Where do you live?
90% silver is one of the easiest things to sell. Not only are there dozens and dozens of shops in my town that will buy at a decent price, but an ad on Craigslist at a fair price will get snapped up very quickly.
This all started when goldfinger stated gold might sit at 3000 for a few years. I said I'd rather earn 5% interest than sit with no price appreciation.
You and Goldfinger are assuming that gold is going to be at $3,000 for five years and you are willing to lock in your $$$ at 5% for 5 years? I say "do it". Have at it. Please let us know how it all turns out.
But don't BS us about what a risky deal 90% silver is.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said: This all started when goldfinger stated gold might sit at 3000 for a few years. I said I'd rather earn 5% interest than sit with no price appreciation.
You and Goldfinger are assuming that gold is going to be at $3,000 for five years and you are willing to lock in your $$$ at 5% for 5 years? I say "do it". Have at it. Please let us know how it all turns out.
I didn't assume that at all and didnt say anything about 5 years. Are you ok?
But don't BS us about what a risky deal 90% silver is.
Oh yes, it's easy to sell, but at the price you want?
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
Illiquid market for 90% Where do you live?
90% silver is one of the easiest things to sell. Not only are there dozens and dozens of shops in my town that will buy at a decent price, but an ad on Craigslist at a fair price will get snapped up very quickly.
If one has to drive all around to obtain a price they will accept then it isn't liquid. And meeting a stranger i chatted with online with my buddy, Ruger, by my side isnt risky?
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
.
There is no "counter-party" until a contract (verbal or written, to buy and sell) has been agreed to by both parties.
The risk is not being able to find a party that will agree to the price you want. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
90% silver coin traded by weight or a multiple of face value is pretty liquid because there is a fairly broad established market for it.
If you are offered 20% under the market for something, simply go elsewhere (like a coin show, for example).
.
So drive 50 or 100 miles, pay $20 for parking, spend 3 hours walking from table to table negotiating a price 5-20% back of spot is your idea of liquidity?
That's an all day endeavor....and you may not have even gotten the price you wanted or that you thought it was worth. That is not liquidity.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
.
There is no "counter-party" until a contract (verbal or written, to buy and sell) has been agreed to by both parties.
The risk is not being able to find a party that will agree to the price you want. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
90% silver coin traded by weight or a multiple of face value is pretty liquid because there is a fairly broad established market for it.
If you are offered 20% under the market for something, simply go elsewhere (like a coin show, for example).
.
So drive 50 or 100 miles, pay $20 for parking, spend 3 hours walking from table to table negotiating a price 5-20% back of spot is your idea of liquidity?
That's an all day endeavor....and you may not have even gotten the price you wanted or that you thought it was worth. That is not liquidity.
.
News Flash:
If you buy stock in a company, and then the general market price for it goes down, you will not get the price that you wanted when you sell.
According to the "logic" of your argument above, that means that the market for the stock is not liquid.
Also, in case you didn't realize it, this is a coin collecting website. You don't seem to understand that many people here might actually like to spend half a day or a full day at a coin show.
Due dilligence takes time, regardless if it is transacting a physical item or buying and selling some asset electronically. The advantage with attending a coin show is that you actually get your butt out of the chair and walk a little bit.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
.
There is no "counter-party" until a contract (verbal or written, to buy and sell) has been agreed to by both parties.
The risk is not being able to find a party that will agree to the price you want. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
90% silver coin traded by weight or a multiple of face value is pretty liquid because there is a fairly broad established market for it.
If you are offered 20% under the market for something, simply go elsewhere (like a coin show, for example).
.
So drive 50 or 100 miles, pay $20 for parking, spend 3 hours walking from table to table negotiating a price 5-20% back of spot is your idea of liquidity?
That's an all day endeavor....and you may not have even gotten the price you wanted or that you thought it was worth. That is not liquidity.
.
News Flash:
If you buy stock in a company, and then the general market price for it goes down, you will not get the price that you wanted when you sell.
Correct, i get the market price, not a discount of 5-20%.
According to the "logic" of your argument above, that means that the market for the stock is not liquid.
Nope. See response above. Your "logic" is what is incorrect.
Also, in case you didn't realize it, this is a coin collecting website. You don't seem to understand that many people here might actually like to spend half a day or a full day at a coin show.
I like to spend a day at a coin show. But to walk around with the intent to dump a 5 pound bag of coins trying to get an extra $100 more than the pawn shop down the road offered is a frustrating experience for most. When combined with travel costs, parking and admittance fees and other misc expenses could actually cost more than the extra dollar you receive.
Due dilligence takes time, regardless if it is transacting a physical item or buying and selling some asset electronically. The advantage with attending a coin show is that you actually get your butt out of the chair and walk a little bit.
.
Yes, due diligence is very important which is why i frequently muse at others (including your's) generalized comments on markets outside of coins or precious metals.
BTW---Great advise on saying to sell gold the other day!! You rock!!
@GoldFinger1969 said:
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
.
Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
.
Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
.
Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
.
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
.
There is no "counter-party" until a contract (verbal or written, to buy and sell) has been agreed to by both parties.
The risk is not being able to find a party that will agree to the price you want. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
90% silver coin traded by weight or a multiple of face value is pretty liquid because there is a fairly broad established market for it.
If you are offered 20% under the market for something, simply go elsewhere (like a coin show, for example).
.
So drive 50 or 100 miles, pay $20 for parking, spend 3 hours walking from table to table negotiating a price 5-20% back of spot is your idea of liquidity?
That's an all day endeavor....and you may not have even gotten the price you wanted or that you thought it was worth. That is not liquidity.
.
News Flash:
If you buy stock in a company, and then the general market price for it goes down, you will not get the price that you wanted when you sell.
Correct, i get the market price, not a discount of 5-20%.
According to the "logic" of your argument above, that means that the market for the stock is not liquid.
Nope. See response above. Your "logic" is what is incorrect.
Also, in case you didn't realize it, this is a coin collecting website. You don't seem to understand that many people here might actually like to spend half a day or a full day at a coin show.
I like to spend a day at a coin show. But to walk around with the intent to dump a 5 pound bag of coins trying to get an extra $100 more than the pawn shop down the road offered is a frustrating experience for most. When combined with travel costs, parking and admittance fees and other misc expenses could actually cost more than the extra dollar you receive.
Due dilligence takes time, regardless if it is transacting a physical item or buying and selling some asset electronically. The advantage with attending a coin show is that you actually get your butt out of the chair and walk a little bit.
.
Yes, due diligence is very important which is why i frequently muse at others (including your's) generalized comments on markets outside of coins or precious metals.
BTW---Great advise on saying to sell gold the other day!! You rock!!
.
Just because an item has a relatively wide buy/sell spread (as quoted by some dealer), that does not mean it is illiquid.
If you don't like the amount of the spread, cut out the middleman. A decent amount of transacting in bullion goes on at my local coin club meetings. No middle-man there. Some dealers at a coin show will operate on a much narrower spread than some lowly "pawn shop".
you may not have even gotten the price you wanted or that you thought it was worth. That is not liquidity.
Just like a stock that goes down in price. You can try day after day, month after month, but nobody will pay the price you are asking. Stocks are totally illiquid when the price goes down (according to your definition quoted above).
You have something to sell. You shop around for the best price (at a coin show or wherever). You find the best price you can get on relatively short notice and take it. That is not "frustrating", it is simply market research.
You must REALLY HATE real estate. Look at the effort it takes to buy, and especially to sell. All the walking you have to do to examine a property. Sheesh ! And the inspection fees, and the appraisal fees, and the broker fees, and title company fees, and the county taxes, and the maintenance, and the time it takes to sell and close, etc.
You suggested that bonds would be better than gold for the next several months or years. I suggested that if you think that, then you should sell all your gold and buy bonds. Selling gold the other day would have been advantageous because the price has gone down since then. But guess what ? Interest rates have gone up since then, which means that the bonds would have been a loser.
looks like we got schooled by the rest of the world in our tariffs-no tariffs tantrum. Lotta peeps out there I assume lost a lotta dollaz on both sides of the scam but that's life. Plan accordingly. I'm switching back from physical to paper slv/gld. This "stable, business" game is far too predictable. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Comments
Schiff's LT track record is terrible.
The chart works even if you start it at 1980 or 2000 or 2010 or whatever. Rolling time periods are the difference-maker.
That chart is terribly biased.....it just happens to be the starting point right AFTER a 20-year bear market where gold and PM's did nothing.
selective graphing? haven't heard that one a million times
perhaps it can be settled with more charts and chats? or not
Guys like Shiff have to sell their doom and gloom. Adjust chart to make it say whatever you want it to say. Poor dudes gotta eat. SMH!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Stick with the stocks. LOL
You stock guys love to visit the PM forum to brag on stocks. Ever notice that we don't need to visit you?
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
3375!
I thought the chart was interesting and pertained to recent discussions but I don't know what conclusions to draw or how some of those lines were calculated. Clearly for stocks it probably reflects an index which has changed composition significantly over the years. The problem with any chart is of course deciding where to start it lest you be accused of cherry picking anything, but I'm not sure there's an unbiased date from which to start such a chart either.
I guess the conclusion to draw from the chart can be that until Nixon closed the gold window gold held stead in value and since then has been volatile.
Perhaps a more interesting chart is Gold divided by Dow Jones. I would say we've bottomed and the gold looks set to outperform stocks in a pretty serious way.
http://ProofCollection.Net
That's some massive 50 year underperformance. No wonder Buffett is so rich.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Why not visit both, as well as others? Diversification brother. Cripes I'm even buying the gutter metal from you. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
the only paper that interests me at the time are gold/gold miner ETFs. GDXU has proven to be a gold mine.
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
$3300!
I'm showing just south of $3400. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
ooops
$3400!
India
5-6-2025
India says it has launched strikes in Pakistan-controlled area.
The strikes come after last month’s deadly attack on tourists in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir.
Pakistan 'shoots down two Indian jets' - after India fires missiles on 'terrorist camps'
India said it had carried out a "precision strike" on "terrorist camps" - but Pakistan's defence minister said all the targets hit were civilian places, not militant camps.
Tuesday 6 May 2025 23:05
black swan rearing its ugly head? both have nukes. Got Gold?
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
Is me gold gonna save me from the nukes? I got's it but looks like it immediately dropped $40 right off the Asia open. Crazy Times. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Yikes! Down 2% right now. Those metals sure are unpredictable. Guess everyone is thinking that "Is me gold gonna save me from the nukes?" like you said Blitz.
That's why you use rolling time periods like market professionals. No arbitrary starting or ending points, and it is what is closest to real-world people investing over time.
come home $3300 !
We may base here at $3,000 or a bit higher for months...or even years.
Very bullish !
3325! sleep less restlessly
$3000 for years is boring, not bullish. A 3 year A rated corporate will yield 5% and turn 3000 into almost 3500.
But yes, basing within an uptrend is generally good for sustaining the trend, just be mindful of costs.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You should change your username once again, this time to "Antagonist."
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
How is stating facts and basic math principles considered antagonistic?
Because most all of hillbilly's posts show opposition to what is posted. That is the definition of antagonistic. I did not say it was good or bad.
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
.> @derryb said:
Fact is opposition? Yup, that the world we now live in. We are weak.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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Yes, the corporate bond will pay interest, so long as the corporation performs on their obligations.
Bonds pay interest to compensate for the counter-party risk.
Gold does not have any counter-party risk.
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Until you can't find a counter-party to trade with that agrees with your price.
And....I'd rather collect interest than not.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The refiners are always willing buyers a few percent under spot. Financial instruments like futures allow them to maintain a neutral position so it is always profitable for them to buy with those margins.
http://ProofCollection.Net
why are you here?
My mommy gave birth?
Dude, I like PMs just like y'all. Gold, silver, platinum....I got em.
I also like to add perspective to the narrative of PMs. You have a problem with that?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
and there is the fact of this:
you're not collecting interest on that and there is counter-party risk
i don't consider myself an antagonist
Yeah, I have gold and silver and platinum and it sucks when their value does not increase. And there is very little counter-party risk. Certainly less than the guy shopping around 90%, who could be looking at a 5-20% risk.
If given the choice of collecting interest or not, I believe almost everyone would rather collect interest. Would not you?
This all started when goldfinger stated gold.might sit at 3000 for a few years. I said I'd rather earn 5% interest than sit with no price appreciation. And I get attacked, which seems quite silly, as yall seem to be saying you'd rather earn nothing than 5%. Makes no sense.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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Collecting a relatively meager amount of interest is sometimes not worth the risk involved.
If you can't find a buyer for your gold at or above your price, that has nothing to do with "counter-party risk".
You should know this. It means that you originally paid more than the market price, and/or the market price has changed.
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$10s of thousands is meager? My oh my, I didn't realize I was in the presence of such great wealth. Good for you!!
Like all those folk who were buying ASEs a few years ago and the narrative was massive demand and no supply. Those poor suckers. If only they were warned.
But that's not my point. Which is, in the case of the forum member looking to sell 90%. He may be thinking his silver is worth face value x .715, whereas his potential counter-party may think it is worth 20% less. That's the risk one assumes when they get involved with an illiquid market.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
i can go hypothetical, not right now.
i don't want to get into the "pick-your-timeframe" bickering
so, i'll just say supposine 5 years is an assumption leading into the hypothetical. it seems like another opportunity to time the market and justifying it wit some past data
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There is no "counter-party" until a contract (verbal or written, to buy and sell) has been agreed to by both parties.
90% silver coin traded by weight or a multiple of face value is pretty liquid because there is a fairly broad established market for it.
If you are offered 20% under the market for something, simply go elsewhere (like a coin show, for example).
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Illiquid market for 90% Where do you live?
90% silver is one of the easiest things to sell. Not only are there dozens and dozens of shops in my town that will buy at a decent price, but an ad on Craigslist at a fair price will get snapped up very quickly.
http://ProofCollection.Net
This all started when goldfinger stated gold might sit at 3000 for a few years. I said I'd rather earn 5% interest than sit with no price appreciation.
You and Goldfinger are assuming that gold is going to be at $3,000 for five years and you are willing to lock in your $$$ at 5% for 5 years? I say "do it". Have at it. Please let us know how it all turns out.
But don't BS us about what a risky deal 90% silver is.
I knew it would happen.
I didn't assume that at all and didnt say anything about 5 years. Are you ok?
Oh yes, it's easy to sell, but at the price you want?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
If one has to drive all around to obtain a price they will accept then it isn't liquid. And meeting a stranger i chatted with online with my buddy, Ruger, by my side isnt risky?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
The risk is not being able to find a party that will agree to the price you want. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
So drive 50 or 100 miles, pay $20 for parking, spend 3 hours walking from table to table negotiating a price 5-20% back of spot is your idea of liquidity?
That's an all day endeavor....and you may not have even gotten the price you wanted or that you thought it was worth. That is not liquidity.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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News Flash:
If you buy stock in a company, and then the general market price for it goes down, you will not get the price that you wanted when you sell.
According to the "logic" of your argument above, that means that the market for the stock is not liquid.
Also, in case you didn't realize it, this is a coin collecting website. You don't seem to understand that many people here might actually like to spend half a day or a full day at a coin show.
Due dilligence takes time, regardless if it is transacting a physical item or buying and selling some asset electronically. The advantage with attending a coin show is that you actually get your butt out of the chair and walk a little bit.
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Correct, i get the market price, not a discount of 5-20%.
Nope. See response above. Your "logic" is what is incorrect.
I like to spend a day at a coin show. But to walk around with the intent to dump a 5 pound bag of coins trying to get an extra $100 more than the pawn shop down the road offered is a frustrating experience for most. When combined with travel costs, parking and admittance fees and other misc expenses could actually cost more than the extra dollar you receive.
Yes, due diligence is very important which is why i frequently muse at others (including your's) generalized comments on markets outside of coins or precious metals.
BTW---Great advise on saying to sell gold the other day!! You rock!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
congratulations gold! it finally hit 3225!
to walk around with the intent to dump a 5 pound bag of coins trying to get an extra $100 more than the pawn shop down the road
If that's been your experience, you're a worse investor than I thought, but it's not too surprising.
Great advise on saying to sell gold the other day!! You rock!!
Did YOU sell any gold the other day? Of course not. I think you should sell your gold and buy 10 yr Treasuries, en masse. Keep spewing your BS.
I knew it would happen.
Not my experience. But that's what some on this forum advised to do.
I invested in a down move a few weeks ago. Made some quick dough. Remember.
No BS here. And I will buy Treasuries at some point. Maybe even 30 year bonds. Gotta love duration. Do you know what duration is?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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Just because an item has a relatively wide buy/sell spread (as quoted by some dealer), that does not mean it is illiquid.
If you don't like the amount of the spread, cut out the middleman. A decent amount of transacting in bullion goes on at my local coin club meetings. No middle-man there. Some dealers at a coin show will operate on a much narrower spread than some lowly "pawn shop".
Just like a stock that goes down in price. You can try day after day, month after month, but nobody will pay the price you are asking. Stocks are totally illiquid when the price goes down (according to your definition quoted above).
You have something to sell. You shop around for the best price (at a coin show or wherever). You find the best price you can get on relatively short notice and take it. That is not "frustrating", it is simply market research.
You must REALLY HATE real estate. Look at the effort it takes to buy, and especially to sell. All the walking you have to do to examine a property. Sheesh ! And the inspection fees, and the appraisal fees, and the broker fees, and title company fees, and the county taxes, and the maintenance, and the time it takes to sell and close, etc.
You suggested that bonds would be better than gold for the next several months or years. I suggested that if you think that, then you should sell all your gold and buy bonds. Selling gold the other day would have been advantageous because the price has gone down since then. But guess what ? Interest rates have gone up since then, which means that the bonds would have been a loser.
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looks like we got schooled by the rest of the world in our tariffs-no tariffs tantrum. Lotta peeps out there I assume lost a lotta dollaz on both sides of the scam but that's life. Plan accordingly. I'm switching back from physical to paper slv/gld. This "stable, business" game is far too predictable. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Dan, I do believe you are talking to a rock.
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.