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Clash ID Help
blaircountycoin
Posts: 250 ✭✭✭
I recently purchased an 1865 fancy 5 two cent with heavy clashing on the reverse. I know there is a clash associated with the plain 5. Can anybody help me ID this one? Thank you in advance for your help. The pictures are not high quality but the best I can take with my camera set up.
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Can't tell anything from those pictures, sorry.
Two more views
Looks like there is some die clash on the reverse; that likely match up with the obverse shield horizontal lines.
From maddieclashes.com website:
But I have no idea if there are any identified examples to match up with.
Thanks for the overlay! Good info. How do I find out if examples exist?
what is the purpose of finding other clashes that match?
In some series which are collected by die variety, clashes can help identify die states.
I believe there are few people who collect US Two Cents by die variety,
but there are a couple of books, and I recall one person studied one of the years.
I believe most people who collect Two Cent die varieties are mostly interested in the Cherrypicker style die varieties:
But the CPG does identify a few clashes as well.
I'm not sure what their threshold is for determining clashes of interest.
In other series, people would first identify die pairs using date position for the obverse,
and possibly mint mark position for the reverse.
But since the Two Cents does not have any mint marks, the main die marker is just date position.
In some series like 3CN (Three Cent Copper Nickel), some people believe that more coins were struck from clashed dies than from unclashed dies.
Clashes are definitely not rare in that series, but can still be of some interest.
Purpose of finding one that matches is to determine what designation the variety is. For example I know this clash is known in the plain 5 as FS-02-1865-401/901. TPG such as PCGS does not show it in the price which means they won't attribute it on their slabs. I would like to send it in to be graded and attributed with the clash.
ah. there is a FS number for some of these
forgive my ignorance
do you have a copy of the cherry picker's guide?or pcgs' coinfacts? forgive my ignorance if you've already looked in there
Yes I have the current Cherrypickers guide. A plain 5 clash is listed but not a fancy 5 version.
Most likely then, there is no FS number for the fancy 5 version. Without a number, PCGS would not attribute it (unless they would just denote 'die clash' on label?).
There is another TPG that will put something like 'die clash' on the label, but certainly no number if the number does not exist as of this time.
Unfortunately, also looking in Flynn's Two Cent Variety Book, there are no clashes reported for the Fancy 5 Date. I just picked up the attached coin of the same die pairing. MS63 RB. I have seen one other circulated example in XF Condition of this clash, however I think it is rather a "rare" variety as I have only seen the three examples as of now. I skim through a lot of two cent varieties and I am always looking for the Plain 5 FS-401/901. To me, the Fancy 5 Clash is more dramatic than the Plain 5 401/901 clash.
I have to agree that most likely it will just state "Die Clash" on the holder as there is no variety number. Also I wouldn't be surprised if any FS-401/901 are incorrectly attributed. Some of the older texts might have attributed it. I will try to do more research on this variety.
My coin is raw but probably AU55 or AU58. I also have a raw plain 5 example that is XF.
One thing that should be considered with clash marks, is that they often fade over repeated strikings, and are sometimes lapped and removed (or seem to change appearance slightly). The Bust Half Nut Club does not use them for determining Die States of specific Die Marriages on Bust Half Dollars for this reason.
I LOVE cracks and clashes and cud's ... but when it comes to clashing, I find it a neat oddity (and sometimes an appealing anomaly) more than anything. Even with attribution references, there may not be a great value in the variety ... and sometimes those particular coins (without major value increases), when slabbed with the Variety reference, actually reduce the desirability to all but the most specialized collectors who actually want a documented minor variety
Just my 2c ...
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Not familar at all regarding 2 ¢ pieces, but perhaps this might help you.
Good luck.
Jim
From CONECA site
Frank Leone
PO Box 170
Glen Oaks, NY 11004
flrc@aol.com
Two Cents & Three Cents — Frank Leone
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I like strong die clashes like this one.
Thank you for the assist!