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Grade opinions for this raw 1804 Draped Bust Half Cent C-6 8.0 Die State(my opinion)

jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 18, 2025 5:37PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I would appreciate your opinions on this 1804 half cent C-6 and whether it would straight grade. Thank you. I won't guess as my
ownership might want to overgrade it, but hope for an XF40. ;) Nick on cheek worries me the most.
Jim


When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain

Comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,843 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, but I see photons which are too dark to see anything.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, but didn't have my camera setup available. Hope this is better.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    assuming it gets through pcgs without a details grade(wild guess), i'll wild guess 40

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That was my worry as well, MsM.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i'm not into coins that old. i don't know what is ma

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    got a higher res of just the obverse?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,843 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would give it a sharpness grade of VF-30 with net grade of VF-20 because of the many marks on the obverse and reverse. So far as PCGS goes, it’s touch and go. I won’t try because the third party graders hammered me on early copper years ago. The reverse has too many marks from the top of the wreath to between “HALF / CENT.” I think that could result in a “details” grade.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 18, 2025 6:36PM

    Here’s mine for comparison

    Mr_Spud

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    got a higher res of just the obverse?

    No, just my cell phone at this time.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Bill, I can see it being net graded to VF 20ish, if it straight grades. Cool late die state though!

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 7,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool Die State with neat CUD's but not thinking it will straight grade.

    Maybe?

    I'm also in that VF 20 to 25 grade range ... my expectation from PCGS would be Env Damage / VF Details


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,843 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    I agree with Bill, I can see it being net graded to VF 20ish, if it straight grades. Cool late die state though!

    All 1806 Cohen 6 half cents have “cool die states.” It’s the most cud prone die variety in American numismatics. That won’t save it from a “details” grade.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • pcgsregistrycollectorpcgsregistrycollector Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not see it getting a grade close to XF-40. Best I would say is VF-20 to 25.

    God comes first in everything I do. I’m dedicated to serving Him with my whole life. Coin collecting is just a hobby—but even in that, I seek to honor Him. ✝️

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if my 40 is close to a 30, then i think that's a step in the right direction

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    I agree with Bill, I can see it being net graded to VF 20ish, if it straight grades. Cool late die state though!

    All 1806 Cohen 6 half cents have “cool die states.” It’s the most cud prone die variety in American numismatics. That won’t save it from a “details” grade.

    I did not know that the Spiked Chin obverse die was used with different reverse dies. The ones I have seen and/or owned did not have cuds. But comparing Jim’s with Mr Spud’s images, I see now the diagnostics are very different.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,843 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20, 2025 4:58AM

    @Walkerguy21D said:

    @BillJones said:

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    I agree with Bill, I can see it being net graded to VF 20ish, if it straight grades. Cool late die state though!

    All 1806 Cohen 6 half cents have “cool die states.” It’s the most cud prone die variety in American numismatics. That won’t save it from a “details” grade.

    I did not know that the Spiked Chin obverse die was used with different reverse dies. The ones I have seen and/or owned did not have cuds. But comparing Jim’s with Mr Spud’s images, I see now the diagnostics are very different.

    The Spiked Chin was combined with four reverses. The rarest one is C-7, which is scarce, but not impossible to obtain. It has a leaf on the reverse located between the "O" and "F" in "OF." The most common one, C-8, has a die defect at the upright of the "R" in "AMERICA" on the reverse.

    Here is a C-5. It was during this die marriage that the obverse die was damaged, which created the Spiked Chin. You will note that the reverse die has a big crack across the middle of it. My theory is that the reverse die was damaged when the dies came in contact with the screw or whatever it was that made the Spiked Chin. This one of the last pieces that is left from my half die variety collecting days. NGC graded EF-40, correctly IMO, about a quarter century ago.

    This die pair is known with and without the Spliked Chin.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Bill!
    As always, a wealth of information for us.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2025 9:12PM

    ,

    Mike
    My Indians
    Dansco Set

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ill go with a 30 as well

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't see it going higher than VF 20.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF20, but my gut says 15.

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