Baltimore March 2025 - A Few Observations
lilolme
Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
I didn't see any Baltimore March 2025 show summaries/reports so thought I would throw a few observations out.
The dealer day once again seemed to be busy based on the viewed activity at the tables (tables mostly occupied much of the time). Does the Baltimore show have the best dealer day?
On Thursday, I think around 11am as best I recall, the show intercom made an announcement that pcgs was immediately not taking any more show grading submissions. This led to the question of why (overloaded, something broke....). Later someone mentioned that they talked to a pcgs rep and they said nothing broke but it was based on them getting 'slammed' with show submissions. This goes along with what was heard about submissions early on Tuesday. People said they waited in line for an hour to get their submissions in. Also was told a few of the larger dealers had larger than normal submissions. By late afternoon on Tuesday there was no line and the pcgs agents said it had been very busy.
A couple people mentioned that the attendance seemed lower than normal. I have no manner to measure this but it kind of seemed about the same. Of course this can depend on where one is and at what time.
Went by Perkins table and noticed it was a much different arrangement. I asked and he said to go read Gerry Fortin's blog as they were missing (usually share a 'square' of tables). Checking the blog it appears GF did not attend and mentioned the long drive, starting to wear down and diminishing show attendance and sales. Hopefully I got that about right. But check out his blog for March 26.
So maybe I am too old but I found it interesting that one of the younger (to be) dealers (I think 19 or 20) had a younger 'kid' helping him by going around and showing and pricing (using laptop and phone if necessary) some of his inventory. Seemed to be doing a good job also.
Observation on size of show - This is based off remembering the past and without a specific timeline (memory not that good). Walking into this show and going to the left wall and back, this area is basically empty for a couple rows. There was an added Kids Zone (a good thing) but in years past this area was full. I will note the supplies dealer had moved to the center back row. Similarly on the right back area it was mostly empty and used to be occupied (I recall buying coin 'plate' back in this corner). And finally in the L area of the room (sort of out in front of pcgs) the area is not dealer occupied. I did notice a display area set up and the Whitman tables. Also the US Mint was not there so this opened up the area they were in, which was now occupied with dealer tables. So overall to my observations there is a noticeable decrease in size. Again I don't have a timeline on this but could go back a dozen years plus. With all of that I think this is still a good sized and well run show and occupied with coin/paper/bullion dealers and auctions (not other stuff).
General:
Observation on attendance over time - There are often discussion about attendance for both dealers and collectors. I can recall when some dealers would catch a flight home early on Sunday as they did not want to leave early on Saturday for a flight. This changed to flying home on Saturday and then for many flying home on Friday. During a similar time frame collector attendance slowed. So is this a dealer or collector thing?
I certainly don't know. I will mention the Internet as one factor that works on both the dealer and collector attendance. As time moved forward the internet became/becomes better and used more by dealers and collectors. This is not just the internet speed and reliability improvements but also the available platforms and ability to load more information and images. So a dealer that used to go to shows to display inventory to collectors (or other dealers) can now do much of it through the internet (or emails....). Similarly for the collector who can find much of the inventory on-line. I can think of many dealers that do not attend or have limited / smaller show attendance versus 'yesterday'. Some indicate they can do more at home and maybe more so if they have a B&M shop. There are some who may be mainly attending for the dealer trade (or perhaps show submissions 
). The improving internet has also made auctions more productive.
Another item is the cost of attendance. So I can't compare today's dollars to yesterday without considering inflation (which I don't have all the data to do and don't want to spend the time to do). However, it does seem like attending a show cost more today and I am mostly talking about those that have to travel a larger distance and perhaps flying to show and staying in a motel for a x nights and meals and other. This, similar to Internet, impacts both the dealer and collector attendance. More cost to see less 'new' inventory due to internet availability. For me though I still like attending a show and actual viewing of the inventory, particularly when buying, and lot viewing if available and visiting with those in attendance. But I have to admit it is getting harder and auctions are getting more of my time.
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PS - Did anyone notice that PCGS added a Walk In Wednesday for April 2 in Santa Ana?
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RLJ 1958 - 2023
Comments
Honestly – I thought the show was fine. Big enough number of dealers. Fewer “trash” dealers – ya know – the antique, almost pawn shop like set ups. In fact – there was still a heck of a lot of dealer/buyer’s types at tables still hogging the cases with all their crap spread out everywhere. Why is that if you're selling you don’t bring these folks to your side of the table to do the big transactions?? Anyway, I did notice when I entered no one at PCGS, NGC or CAC had a line. In fact the CAC folks looked bored. But I did see what I thought was something new at the PCGS table – a couple of set aside tables opposite the main table with what looked more like dealers getting one on one service than average collectors. Since a friend with me was buying $2.50 gold coins, we were both shocked at the reasonable offers he was getting. AND – the crab cakes were just as delicious over at the Pratt Street Ale House as in years past.
WS
There is simply no better education than seeing coins in hand. Attending a large show gives a collector that opportunity. Also, it a collector can compare and develop a better understanding as to the availability of certain coins at various grade levels including the quality within a specific grade.
Alot of work goes into a coin show comparable to the Baltimore Whitman show... So thanks to those that make the show possible.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I was at the show Friday. I started by attending the Liberty Seated Collectors Club meeting at 9AM. I stayed after to discuss writing an article for the Gobrecht Journal, so I was a few minutes late for the 10AM opening of the show to the public. First up, a modest submission of nine half dimes. Both PCGS and NGC seemed busy, but my timing was good, as a chair opened just as I finished filling out my form. Later in the morning I noticed the CAC/CACG folks did not look particularly busy, and I spoke with two of them for a few minutes. As the OP mentioned, there were some differences from the norm in the periphery. And there did seem to be fewer dealer tables than usual. Regarding GF - in addition to wanting to avoid the long drive, he was home watching over the ending to the second session of his company's auction of his front-line collection of seated dimes and the Newtown Collection seated halves. I also noted that Chris McCawley was absent. Over the years I've enjoyed chatting with him (and have bought a number of quality LCs from him. So, this time I spoke with Lucas Baldridge for awhile.
I did make one purchase. For my half dime variety collection, I picked up what is, for the time being, the finest known 1858-O V-1A, a pretty PCGS/CAC MS64+. I also noticed an 1847 MS67 I had been considering at $3150 now being offered by a different dealer at $4500.
By 1:00 I was done scanning the bourse, I was hungry, and my 4 hours of street parking was up. So, I went home. Here are my photos of the new acquisition.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
I know this is about the Baltimore show but I would like to share something. I have known a vest pocket dealer named Brian for about 40 years now. I ran into him this morning and he is just back from the Northwest Coin show here in Minnesota. I asked him about the show and this is what he said,
"Coin shows are changing. You have to pay a $50 dollar early bird fee to get in early and have a shot at the best buys. In the past this wasn't all that important but this time the bouse floor was shoulder to shoulder packed for the early bird portion. I've never seen anything like it before." I have never been to a coin show but i found that information very interesting. (He said the rest of the show was business as usual for the show.) james
The letters showing left of the date are intriguing. Am I correct to conclude this is a die clash? The letters shown don't look raised. Is this feature part of the variety designation? Thanks for posting!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Nothing's changing with shows themselves. Your friend's observation boils down to nothing more than lots of vest pocket dealers in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota in March 2025 cramming into a tight space in a small window of time.
The public doesn't pay the $50. Neither do dealers that take tables. The $50 fee is the cost for a vest pocket dealer to have early access to show inventory, and is literally nothing to anyone dealing in coins, even as a side hustle. GACC charged $15 for the public to attend during regular hours.
"Shoulder to shoulder packed" with vest pocket dealers during early bird at a smallish regional show means nothing for the hobby at large. Tell me the ANA's WFOM in OKC is "shoulder to shoulder packed" with members of the public, and we'll have some news worth reporting.
And they get mad when you ask if you can look in the case covered by their stuff!
When did you enter? There was a queue of 5+ people to submit to PCGS (lined up to the right of their table) for virtually the entire show
Coin Rarities Online
Yes, those are clash marks. When I first looked at the coin, I thought it was damage. But a closer look with my loupe made it clear that those are nice frosty clash marks from STAT. No, they are not currently part of the variety diagnostics in the @yosclimber 1858-O guide. The primary diagnostic is the die crack at the other end of the base. Later, lapping weakens the pole such that the portion between the index and middle fingers disappears (a so-called "short pole"). Still later, on the reverse, a large retained cud is present, from the left ribbon to the final A of AMERICA.
Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states
Love the seated dime ❤️
"The best thing about life is that there are always people who weren't there but can tell you all about it. " Mark Twain
Thanks for your show report.
Thank you for this. As good as coin photography has gotten in the last twenty years, you still need to see the coin in hand. Photos often overlook carbon flecks, and hairlines. Coins which have been dipped that has what Laura calls 'stains' which often don't show up on photos, either. And I've never bought any toned coin which either I haven't seen myself, or someone I trust looked at it and gave the the go ahead.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Arrived 12:15 - Thursday - left at 3:00 - no lines, no where did I see.
WS
I managed to attend Baltimore on Thursday and Friday… And it really is not always about what you buy or add to your collection, it is also about what you see and develop as a point of reference that adds to being a numismatist.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I love the seated dime. Thanks for the report.
Great dime and report. Thanks!
Interesting that 3/3 people are seeing a seated dime.
I'm seeing a seated half dime. (A very nice one).
They do look very similar, but I've found the "HALF" word to be helpful.
Standing in line for a show submission at the Long Beach show. last September. I noticed a few dealers holding down chairs at the PCGS tables. They did not move out when done for the folks inline to take their seats BUT rather they stayed seated as other dealers from the floor who were not in line brought them rubber banned wads of coins to submit for them.
NICE FOR DEALERS HAVING DEALER SHILLS HOLD SUBMISSION TABLE/ CHAIRS SPOTS WHILE OTHER DEALERS BRING THEM WADS OF COINS TO SUBMIT FOR THEM AND NOT HAVING THEMSELVES TO STAND IN LINE!!
I DID NOT KNOW DEALERS HAD SUCH PRIVILEGED SERVICES?
all this I observed continuously!
I’ll half to remember that next dime.
🙃
I would be seriously worried about a car related theft.. this IS Baltimore. This has to be a factor both dealers and collectors take into consideration.
I noticed that change two years ago at the 2023 TNA (the last year I was a volunteer - 2024 in Conroe I was just a participant) which was the first year we sold formal early bird badges. Our expectation was we would sell a handful, the count was quite a bit over 100.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Re: Ambro51 post
Umm, not at all. This is not Philly which to me is a bit scarier. Taking reasonable precaution I have run into NO such issues in 30 years. I am a collector with NO affiliation to promoters or Whitman or anyone else & have had some, shall we say, very nice coins that I was in charge of....> @ambro51 said:
Well, just Love coins, period.
@BStrauss3 . The original poster refers to a "dealer day" so I don't know if Baltimore has the same "eary bird' hour or whatever length it is in Minnesota. I just know Brian said even as recently as 3 or 4 years ago he knew just about every person that participated in these early entry periods. Now this feature has become almost the most important part of his attendance. As i said Brian is a vest pocket dealer and he told me he took $25, 000 in cash and coin to the show. He claimed he spent over 90% of his cash during this first period.
I have never been to a coin show. I really didn't think much of paying $50 dollars to get into an event like this. Even now if i were to go to this coin show i wouldn't pay for this opportunity but i do wonder how much this early session involves rare cpoins and how much involves bullion. James
@seatedlib3991 The term dealer day, at least for me, can be used to refer to a few different types of time periods or things. I might use it to reference the early bird time that you mentioned (but early bird is good) and/or dealer set up time. For Baltimore there are different rooms (2) used on Wednesday (public show starts on Thursday) where the dealers rent a couple smaller conference rooms with tables set up to do trading. At 5PM on Wednesday the show room opens to dealers (until 8/9PM) and this could also be a dealer day but is dealer set up officially. Thursday the show opens to the public at 12 noon and Early birds at 10AM while the dealer entry begins at 8 AM (again for set up as some dealers arrive on Thursday). So I guess this time before public entry I might also refer to as dealer day (I might be a little loose with the dealer day thing
).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4KA0mUnC8 - Dream On (Aerosmith cover) via Morgan James & Postmodern Jukebox
https://youtube.com/watch?v=m3lF2qEA2cw - Creep (Radiohead cover) via Haley Reinhart & Postmodern Jukebox
RLJ 1958 - 2023
@lilolme . Thank you. That was very informative. James
Oh, it's a half dollar? Interesting!
My (infrequently updated) hobby website Groovycoins.com
The parking at some of these shows is just outrages.
Parking in Philly was $66.00 a day and at this Baltimore it was $45.00 a day.
Not to mention all the other expenses!
Great report, thank you for the information.
There has been a tradition of no charge for Admission at Baltimore. The price of parking and other expenses are offset by the vast selection of coins, medals, tokens and currency that can be seen in hand. There is postage savings if you choose to submit coins or currency to either PCGS, CAC or NGC directly. And there is savings in postage by buying the coin from a dealer sightseen which really increases the probability of being satisfied. There are numerous references at the show… dealers and collectors to meet. And perhaps what can be learned just by walking the bourse floor is priceless in terms of furthering one’s understanding and appreciation of how often certain coins are offered at various states of preservation. So it really speaks volumes as to developing a personal point of reference.
So while you may not be thrilled with parking or certain “other expenses”, take a moment to contemplate what is gained by attending.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
What was in Philly?
I park at the Hilton hotel, it was $35. Easy walk to the convention center, or if you're scared of big cities - you can walk the sky bridge to the center and never touch the city streets.
WS
Wow, and to think many of us including me whined when FUN parking jumped to $22 this year….
Philly had a PCGS show there!
I parked in a public lot a half block away for $35. While that does seem like a lot to park, I also sold a roll of ASE and dropped a couple of coins at GC. So that saved me shipping costs and associated potential headaches. Plus saw a lot of cool coins!
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