Best way to pay for coin off of bst
Larrob37
Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
I want to hear from buyers of fairly expensive coins who buy off of bst on the pcgs site. I was looking to buy a coin in the $1000.00 range. The payment options were ppff, Venmo , Zelle or check . I mentioned that I would like to do pp straight up but seller said the fees were not worth it. I was willing to split the fees but we never got that far. I just feel uneasy sending $1000.00 to someone without recourse. I have no reason to distrust the seller as he looks like a veteran coin buyer and seller. What payment method do the veteran buyers and sellers on bst prefer. Thanks
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The simple answer is that it depends on the two parties involved. As a seller, I like no-fee payments because it means I don't pay any fees, and I'm better protected from the buyer making any claims and getting the money back. Those methods are also faster and more efficient than receiving a check or money order.
As a buyer, I like paying with a credit card because I get points, but I'd rather save 3%.
This is where it depends on trust level. If I fully trust my buyer, they can pay however they want as long as I get the right amount of money in the end (ie, they cover the whole fee). If I really don't feel comfortable with the buyer and they can't produce a reference, I might wait for someone else. It's similar when I'm buying. If I trust who I'm buying from, I'll pay them however they want and whatever way gets me the best price.
In your case, not knowing anything beyond what you wrote, I have a few thoughts:
"I mentioned that I would like to do pp straight up but seller said the fees were not worth it." This says the seller didn't want to lose 3%. Whether it's because they were barely breaking even or they just wanted the $30 is somewhat immaterial. They calculated their take based on no fees, and you were asking to add fees.
"I was willing to split the fees but we never got that far." If you stopped at the seller's prior comment, you could have easily gotten this far. Yes, the seller didn't offer to accept PP if you covered the fees, but it's easy enough for you to offer that. The seller could still say no, but maybe he thought your request implied you wouldn't cover them, and you could have clarified that. Splitting the fees wouldn't be enough based on what the seller wrote, and then you have to decide how much you value using regular PP.
In this case, it seems like someone could have used a reference or two. A good reference for the seller and maybe you're okay without recourse. A good reference for you and maybe the seller is okay giving you a little more control over the sale. But in general, I think most sales are going to defer to who is more senior with a good reputation. If both parties are, then it's an easy transaction.
I prefer feeless digital payments when buying and selling—Zelle, PayPal, Venmo—and will also accept physical check, although I hold the coin for a week as a seller before shipping to confirm the check clears.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
In addition to that excellent reply from @airplanenut, I’ll stress the potential advantages of references that he alluded to.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the seller doesn't accept Paypal Goods & Services, I move on (unless it's a business, or a trusted member). The free payment methods make it easy for the recipient to disappear once payment has been received. With G&S, it's about 3%, but at least both the buyer and seller have some protections.
This ^^^. Protection and trust work both ways. Regardless of how reputable a seller might be, things happen and things change.
Especially with coins, which are a want, not a need, I would not send $1,000 to anyone with no ability to make a third party claim if I was later unhappy. And I would certainly be willing to pay $30 for that peace of mind.
If the seller is unwilling to allow you to do that, that would be a red flag in my mind that it is not about the fees, but rather about your ability to make a claim. And I also would just move on.
I list paypal as an option but will sometimes clarify that the price is something like 100 G&S vs 97 for non fee methods (if it's not mentioned then it means G&S). I know some don't like paypal based on bad prior experiences and no fee is safer for the seller. If the buyer isn't willing to do no fee and the seller does not want to do G&S, then both are best off moving on.
I would second what @MFeld said regarding references.
There are members here I would trust with five figures without a second thought, and there are some who'd feel the same way about me. Personally, I would take any of these people's references as essentially solid gold.
There are other members, whether because of my opinion of them or just my unfamiliarity with them, who I wouldn't trust with $50.
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.
EAC 6024
You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K
I've done transactions with echecks preferred. You may also want to discuss insurance being employed in this day and age with losses and thefts on the rise. PPFF gives the buyer no recourse if there is a problem.
You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have sent over 1K both here on the BST and on one occasion for a purchase on Facebook using feeless methods. It is a bit of a gamble but knowing the seller and/or getting references on the seller is the way to go. Even then it can go bad, there have been a few occasions here on the BST that a seller became overextended and the buyer(s) got taken. It's rare but it is a risk.
Ultimately if you cannot afford to take the risk then you're better off moving on and finding a deal that you are more comfortable with.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The only thing that changes with PayPal is your profit based on whether you or the buyer covers the 3% fee. After that, the tax considerations are the same as if you used any other payment method.
As someone who occasionally sells high value items on BST, I generally avoid using PayPal Goods & Services unless the buyer has positive references. The reason? PayPal's seller protection can often fall short in disputes. Buyers can easily file claims such as "item not received" or "unauthorized charge," which are challenging for sellers to counter. Even if a seller successfully addresses these claims, PayPal might deny protection by categorizing the item as a gold product or financial investment.
That said, my experiences buying and selling with members here have been entirely positive over the years. The paypal issues I've encountered as a seller in the past were on other platforms.
As a buyer, I haven’t got burned yet for anything involving known Forum Members, so I trust them whatever method they prefer me to pay. But I wouldn’t deal with a newbie.
Mr_Spud
Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.
I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.
If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.
I deliver.
As a buyer, where, and or what else, could make you more relaxed or comfortable ?
U.S. only.
Upon arrival, I'd inquire about a local police escort, as seen or unseen, in many of such cases.
......................"I go the extra mile, with a smile".....
But then I always wake up.
I’ve sold several items over the years on the BS&T without any problems. Most recently just last week with a long-term forum member. Not expensive, so I shipped the item to him the same day he was to ship me his check. All ended well.
Most of my sales are of dupes consigned to GC. Absolutely hassle-free, and the fees incurred is my cost for peace of mind! With that said, going forward, if I decide to list a valuable coin first on the BS&T, what @lermish said will be my rule: I will ONLY sell to a reputable buyer from the forum that I know long-term, or one who has impeccable references.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I always, as buyer, insist on PayPal and pay the fees myself. I want a recourse if the transaction goes badly. I would never use cash, check, venmo, zelle or PPFF for any commercial transaction unless I know the other party. You have zero recourse if something goes wrong.
Totally agree.
I may start buying on the BST and 1099 the sellers myself. 🤑
True, but there is a lot of tax evasion that goes on.
The best under-utilized method is crypto, USDC or USDT (Us Dollar equivalent) if you trust the recipient.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I won't buy a $1000 coin on BST unless I've dealt with the seller before -- or can vet the seller from previous posts, recommendations, etc.
That said, I prefer using Zelle.
But before I send payment-in-full, first I send just $1.
After the seller confirms receipt of the $1, I'm reassured the balance due will likewise transfer successfully thru Zelle.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
There are a few things you can do to scope out the situation. If you're uncomfortable, listen to your spidey senses. Most scammers will throw off a few tells. Misspelled words, ever-changing stories, desperate situations, "creative" ways to ship or accept payment, weird stories about how they found a coin. See that stuff and just run. Someone on the BST here who has 15 posts isn't even worth a look, unless he can provide solid references.
Most scammers won't be willing to talk on the phone. Unless I know the person, I won't do a transaction if they're unwilling to call me or accept a call. Besides, it's a great way to "meet" fellow hobbyists.
For some context, I bought and sold somewhere between $500k and $1M of coins during the past 10-15 years. I'm guessing that's between 500 and 1000 individual transactions. I did a mix of eBay, auctions, consignments, show buying/selling, and the BST. I never had one go missing in the mail and I never had anyone's payment disappear. Probably there's a bit of luck in there, but the vast, vast majority of people are solid individuals.
When you are new here, it's hard to provide references. I've bought a few expensive coins on the BST from new forum members with very low post counts including a couple of double eagles from someone with a post count of 5. I just require that they send the coins first and then I'll send payment after I examine the coins in hand. If they are hesitant, I explain that we've had problems here with scammers selling coins and then not delivering them after they've been paid for them. If they insist on payment first, I will pass on making any purchase.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
For $1000 the $30 or so in paypal fees would be worth paying, and you get money back on your credit card.
Years ago someone advertised in Coin World selling a certified gold coin for $3500; I sent the money via a bank check, he kept the coin and became unresponsive. It took me over a dozen years of legal action to get my money back with interest.