Best way to pay for coin off of bst

Larrob37

I want to hear from buyers of fairly expensive coins who buy off of bst on the pcgs site. I was looking to buy a coin in the $1000.00 range. The payment options were ppff, Venmo , Zelle or check . I mentioned that I would like to do pp straight up but seller said the fees were not worth it. I was willing to split the fees but we never got that far. I just feel uneasy sending $1000.00 to someone without recourse. I have no reason to distrust the seller as he looks like a veteran coin buyer and seller. What payment method do the veteran buyers and sellers on bst prefer. Thanks

airplanenut

The simple answer is that it depends on the two parties involved. As a seller, I like no-fee payments because it means I don't pay any fees, and I'm better protected from the buyer making any claims and getting the money back. Those methods are also faster and more efficient than receiving a check or money order.

As a buyer, I like paying with a credit card because I get points, but I'd rather save 3%.

This is where it depends on trust level. If I fully trust my buyer, they can pay however they want as long as I get the right amount of money in the end (ie, they cover the whole fee). If I really don't feel comfortable with the buyer and they can't produce a reference, I might wait for someone else. It's similar when I'm buying. If I trust who I'm buying from, I'll pay them however they want and whatever way gets me the best price.

In your case, not knowing anything beyond what you wrote, I have a few thoughts:

"I mentioned that I would like to do pp straight up but seller said the fees were not worth it." This says the seller didn't want to lose 3%. Whether it's because they were barely breaking even or they just wanted the $30 is somewhat immaterial. They calculated their take based on no fees, and you were asking to add fees.

"I was willing to split the fees but we never got that far." If you stopped at the seller's prior comment, you could have easily gotten this far. Yes, the seller didn't offer to accept PP if you covered the fees, but it's easy enough for you to offer that. The seller could still say no, but maybe he thought your request implied you wouldn't cover them, and you could have clarified that. Splitting the fees wouldn't be enough based on what the seller wrote, and then you have to decide how much you value using regular PP.

In this case, it seems like someone could have used a reference or two. A good reference for the seller and maybe you're okay without recourse. A good reference for you and maybe the seller is okay giving you a little more control over the sale. But in general, I think most sales are going to defer to who is more senior with a good reputation. If both parties are, then it's an easy transaction.

P0CKETCHANGE

I prefer feeless digital payments when buying and selling—Zelle, PayPal, Venmo—and will also accept physical check, although I hold the coin for a week as a seller before shipping to confirm the check clears.

MFeld

@airplanenut said:
The simple answer is that it depends on the two parties involved. As a seller, I like no-fee payments because it means I don't pay any fees, and I'm better protected from the buyer making any claims and getting the money back. Those methods are also faster and more efficient than receiving a check or money order.

As a buyer, I like paying with a credit card because I get points, but I'd rather save 3%.

This is where it depends on trust level. If I fully trust my buyer, they can pay however they want as long as I get the right amount of money in the end (ie, they cover the whole fee). If I really don't feel comfortable with the buyer and they can't produce a reference, I might wait for someone else. It's similar when I'm buying. If I trust who I'm buying from, I'll pay them however they want and whatever way gets me the best price.

In your case, not knowing anything beyond what you wrote, I have a few thoughts:

"I mentioned that I would like to do pp straight up but seller said the fees were not worth it." This says the seller didn't want to lose 3%. Whether it's because they were barely breaking even or they just wanted the $30 is somewhat immaterial. They calculated their take based on no fees, and you were asking to add fees.

"I was willing to split the fees but we never got that far." If you stopped at the seller's prior comment, you could have easily gotten this far. Yes, the seller didn't offer to accept PP if you covered the fees, but it's easy enough for you to offer that. The seller could still say no, but maybe he thought your request implied you wouldn't cover them, and you could have clarified that. Splitting the fees wouldn't be enough based on what the seller wrote, and then you have to decide how much you value using regular PP.

In this case, it seems like someone could have used a reference or two. A good reference for the seller and maybe you're okay without recourse. A good reference for you and maybe the seller is okay giving you a little more control over the sale. But in general, I think most sales are going to defer to who is more senior with a good reputation. If both parties are, then it's an easy transaction.

In addition to that excellent reply from @airplanenut, I’ll stress the potential advantages of references that he alluded to.

pcgs69

If the seller doesn't accept Paypal Goods & Services, I move on (unless it's a business, or a trusted member). The free payment methods make it easy for the recipient to disappear once payment has been received. With G&S, it's about 3%, but at least both the buyer and seller have some protections.

NJCoin

@pcgs69 said:
If the seller doesn't accept Paypal Goods & Services, I move on (unless it's a business, or a trusted member). The free payment methods make it easy for the recipient to disappear once payment has been received. With G&S, it's about 3%, but at least both the buyer and seller have some protections.

This ^^^. Protection and trust work both ways. Regardless of how reputable a seller might be, things happen and things change.

Especially with coins, which are a want, not a need, I would not send $1,000 to anyone with no ability to make a third party claim if I was later unhappy. And I would certainly be willing to pay $30 for that peace of mind.

If the seller is unwilling to allow you to do that, that would be a red flag in my mind that it is not about the fees, but rather about your ability to make a claim. And I also would just move on.

U1chicago

I list paypal as an option but will sometimes clarify that the price is something like 100 G&S vs 97 for non fee methods (if it's not mentioned then it means G&S). I know some don't like paypal based on bad prior experiences and no fee is safer for the seller. If the buyer isn't willing to do no fee and the seller does not want to do G&S, then both are best off moving on.

lermish

I would second what @MFeld said regarding references.

There are members here I would trust with five figures without a second thought, and there are some who'd feel the same way about me. Personally, I would take any of these people's references as essentially solid gold.

There are other members, whether because of my opinion of them or just my unfamiliarity with them, who I wouldn't trust with $50.

Moldnut

PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

JimTyler

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

logger7

I've done transactions with echecks preferred. You may also want to discuss insurance being employed in this day and age with losses and thefts on the rise. PPFF gives the buyer no recourse if there is a problem.

MFeld

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

coinbuf

I have sent over 1K both here on the BST and on one occasion for a purchase on Facebook using feeless methods. It is a bit of a gamble but knowing the seller and/or getting references on the seller is the way to go. Even then it can go bad, there have been a few occasions here on the BST that a seller became overextended and the buyer(s) got taken. It's rare but it is a risk.

Ultimately if you cannot afford to take the risk then you're better off moving on and finding a deal that you are more comfortable with.

airplanenut

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

The only thing that changes with PayPal is your profit based on whether you or the buyer covers the 3% fee. After that, the tax considerations are the same as if you used any other payment method.

justindan

As someone who occasionally sells high value items on BST, I generally avoid using PayPal Goods & Services unless the buyer has positive references. The reason? PayPal's seller protection can often fall short in disputes. Buyers can easily file claims such as "item not received" or "unauthorized charge," which are challenging for sellers to counter. Even if a seller successfully addresses these claims, PayPal might deny protection by categorizing the item as a gold product or financial investment.

That said, my experiences buying and selling with members here have been entirely positive over the years. The paypal issues I've encountered as a seller in the past were on other platforms.

Mr_Spud

As a buyer, I haven’t got burned yet for anything involving known Forum Members, so I trust them whatever method they prefer me to pay. But I wouldn’t deal with a newbie.

NJCoin

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

emeraldATV

I deliver.
As a buyer, where, and or what else, could make you more relaxed or comfortable ?
U.S. only.
Upon arrival, I'd inquire about a local police escort, as seen or unseen, in many of such cases.
......................"I go the extra mile, with a smile".....
But then I always wake up.

winesteven

I’ve sold several items over the years on the BS&T without any problems. Most recently just last week with a long-term forum member. Not expensive, so I shipped the item to him the same day he was to ship me his check. All ended well.

Most of my sales are of dupes consigned to GC. Absolutely hassle-free, and the fees incurred is my cost for peace of mind! With that said, going forward, if I decide to list a valuable coin first on the BS&T, what @lermish said will be my rule: I will ONLY sell to a reputable buyer from the forum that I know long-term, or one who has impeccable references.

Steve

jmlanzaf

I always, as buyer, insist on PayPal and pay the fees myself. I want a recourse if the transaction goes badly. I would never use cash, check, venmo, zelle or PPFF for any commercial transaction unless I know the other party. You have zero recourse if something goes wrong.

jmlanzaf

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

Totally agree.

I may start buying on the BST and 1099 the sellers myself. 🤑

jmlanzaf

@airplanenut said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

The only thing that changes with PayPal is your profit based on whether you or the buyer covers the 3% fee. After that, the tax considerations are the same as if you used any other payment method.

True, but there is a lot of tax evasion that goes on.

ProofCollection

The best under-utilized method is crypto, USDC or USDT (Us Dollar equivalent) if you trust the recipient.

COCollector

I won't buy a $1000 coin on BST unless I've dealt with the seller before -- or can vet the seller from previous posts, recommendations, etc.

That said, I prefer using Zelle.

But before I send payment-in-full, first I send just $1.

After the seller confirms receipt of the $1, I'm reassured the balance due will likewise transfer successfully thru Zelle.

BryceM

There are a few things you can do to scope out the situation. If you're uncomfortable, listen to your spidey senses. Most scammers will throw off a few tells. Misspelled words, ever-changing stories, desperate situations, "creative" ways to ship or accept payment, weird stories about how they found a coin. See that stuff and just run. Someone on the BST here who has 15 posts isn't even worth a look, unless he can provide solid references.

Most scammers won't be willing to talk on the phone. Unless I know the person, I won't do a transaction if they're unwilling to call me or accept a call. Besides, it's a great way to "meet" fellow hobbyists.

For some context, I bought and sold somewhere between $500k and $1M of coins during the past 10-15 years. I'm guessing that's between 500 and 1000 individual transactions. I did a mix of eBay, auctions, consignments, show buying/selling, and the BST. I never had one go missing in the mail and I never had anyone's payment disappear. Probably there's a bit of luck in there, but the vast, vast majority of people are solid individuals.

PerryHall

@BryceM said:
Someone on the BST here who has 15 posts isn't even worth a look, unless he can provide solid references.

When you are new here, it's hard to provide references. I've bought a few expensive coins on the BST from new forum members with very low post counts including a couple of double eagles from someone with a post count of 5. I just require that they send the coins first and then I'll send payment after I examine the coins in hand. If they are hesitant, I explain that we've had problems here with scammers selling coins and then not delivering them after they've been paid for them. If they insist on payment first, I will pass on making any purchase.

logger7

For $1000 the $30 or so in paypal fees would be worth paying, and you get money back on your credit card.

Years ago someone advertised in Coin World selling a certified gold coin for $3500; I sent the money via a bank check, he kept the coin and became unresponsive. It took me over a dozen years of legal action to get my money back with interest.

JimTyler

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

JimTyler

@MFeld said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

You’re wrong Sir Know It All. It must be added to cost so you can pay your tax.

lonemountaincoin

I've done millions in transactions using feeless forms of payment both as buyer and seller, and have been privy to tens of millions in the same within the marketplace groups I run.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need a middle-man platform to protect yourself if you have a good process in place as buyer or seller. Facebook groups are a good testament to this, particularly when they are run well and when buyers/sellers follow some basic operational security steps outlined below.

== The Best Way to Buy a Coin off of BST:

Virtually ANY Method of payment as sender. Conversely, NO Payment method if the seller won't "make it right" in the event of a problem.

If you want extra protection use a Credit Card behind the platform you use as a chargeback back-stop.

Paypal G&S may be occasionally helpful, but it's absolutely far from perfect. Many cases where it's worthless and downright deceptive. Don't count on it to have your back as there are too many ways for things to go wrong which I won't get into here. It provides a VERY false sense of security.

More important than payment platform is WHO you're dealing with that matters.

- Get references
- Get references on those references (if you don't know them)
- Confirm what their policies are in the event of loss, theft, or damage.
- Will they be shipping with signature confirmation?  
- Are you comfortable with the shipping method that will used?  IE; I'd avoid USPS Ground.
- Will it be double boxed?  Taped well?  Believe ir or not, even seasoned shippers do a terrible job of this.
- Ensure they will be the insurance _behind_ the insurance.  Will they refund in the event of a denied claim?

The mailing service and the insurance are the seller's agents.

If the package doesn't arrive in your hands, your ultimate recourse is ETHICS on the part of the seller in doing what he needs to in order to "make it right".

Too many sellers try to cut corners on the above and wash their hands of the problem once the item is in the mail. They won't back up the insurance company, they won't back up the shipping company, and often times won't even pay an extra $3 for signature confirmation.

== The Best Way to Sell a Coin off of BST:

Feeless forms of payment that are not reversible in the event of a fraudulent claim.

Ask for:

- Wire
- Check, Money Order (10 day hold)
- Zelle
- Cashapp
- Venmo - get references.  It's owned by Paypal too, and can be reversible especially if CC used.

Paypal G&S is not your savior as buyer and as seller. It's fraught with peril. Use at your own risk.

Avoid Paypal like the plague as a seller. Too many things that can go wrong even MONTHS after the fact. A hacked account can take back all the money by claiming it was a fraudulent transaction.

Never hold a balance in paypal. NEVER. Always transfer all your money out.

I have written about this at length elsewhere, so I'll keep this part brief.

Yes I realize some of this may be controversial, but I speak from considerable experience both from a career in information security and from personal first hand knowledge. I once had to go through a Paypal backdoor by contacting the President's personal assistant to deal with a chronic issue that their callcenters in India were incapable of addressing.

Best of luck!

Copperindian

The “best” way is what the buyer & seller agree upon & are therefore comfortable with.

lonemountaincoin

@Copperindian said:
The “best” way is what the buyer & seller agree upon & are therefore comfortable with.

Agreement on transaction initiation doesn't guarantee agreement on transaction completion, hence the OP's understandable concern.

NJCoin

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

That's fine. But my point was that you have been free riding all along, since most legitimate sellers have been paying income tax all along, so "tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price" has been happening all along.

You just free rode by being able to sell at a price that included tax, while not paying it. If you think prices are now going to jump 20%+ because tax evaders now have to pay tax, you are mistaken, because much of the world (e.g., the large sellers comprising much of the retail sales volume) has been paying taxes all along.

As a result, tax is already embedded in retail pricing. If you don't agree, just try increasing your prices by 20%, on any sales platform, and wait for the Big Boys to follow you up. If you were selling at 20% below the best price available elsewhere all along, I'd have to question why.

lonemountaincoin

@MFeld said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

Agreed. 1099-K is simply a reporting vehicle. When you pay your taxes you get to offset that against your cost basis as any tax paying individual should report their income (and calculated profit) whether they get a 1099 or not.

Keep in mind you also get to use that "dreaded" 1099 to help declare losses if your basis is higher than your sale price which is also beneficial to lower your overall taxable burden.

For people that pay their taxes as they should, 1099s are nothing to be concerned about.

airplanenut

@JimTyler said:

@MFeld said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

You’re wrong Sir Know It All. It must be added to cost so you can pay your tax.

No, definitely not that. It's easy to pay your taxes without a 1099. "Dear IRS: I sold this coin for $1000. I bought it for $800. I owe tax on $200 profit." At most, if there's a 1099, you can add to you letter, "By the way, here's the 1099 that says I collected $1000 and makes it harder for me to pretend this transaction never took place. Don't worry, even with a 1099 I was going to pay my taxes like the law requires."

Mr_Spud

Just a thought. If you lived in US, but you set up a table at a coin show in Canada and sold a coin, would you still legally have to pay taxes on the profits to the IRS? Just wondering, not sure how that works.

lonemountaincoin

@Mr_Spud said:
Just a thought. If you lived in US, but you set up a table at a coin show in Canada and sold a coin, would you still legally have to pay taxes on the profits to the IRS? Just wondering, not sure how that works.

Consult your CPA. Short answer is yes.

MFeld

@lonemountaincoin said:

@MFeld said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

Agreed. 1099-K is simply a reporting vehicle. When you pay your taxes you get to offset that against your cost basis as any tax paying individual should report their income (and calculated profit) whether they get a 1099 or not.

Keep in mind you also get to use that "dreaded" 1099 to help declare losses if your basis is higher than your sale price which is also beneficial to lower your overall taxable burden.

For people that pay their taxes as they should, 1099s are nothing to be concerned about.

Well, according to @JimTyler (copied below), I was wrong and am Sir Know It All. So you must be, too. 😉

I’m not going to waste my time trying to explain it to him but at least he wrote out my name in capital letters.😀

“You’re wrong Sir Know It All. It must be added to cost so you can pay your tax.”

TheGoonies1985

PayPal invoice at 3%

jmlanzaf

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

Congratulations, your coins have a $0 cost basis.

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@lonemountaincoin said:

@MFeld said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

Agreed. 1099-K is simply a reporting vehicle. When you pay your taxes you get to offset that against your cost basis as any tax paying individual should report their income (and calculated profit) whether they get a 1099 or not.

Keep in mind you also get to use that "dreaded" 1099 to help declare losses if your basis is higher than your sale price which is also beneficial to lower your overall taxable burden.

For people that pay their taxes as they should, 1099s are nothing to be concerned about.

Well, according to @JimTyler (copied below), I was wrong and am Sir Know It All. So you must be, too. 😉

I’m not going to waste my time trying to explain it to him but at least he wrote out my name in capital letters.😀

“You’re wrong Sir Know It All. It must be added to cost so you can pay your tax.”

I believe that after the election you are properly King Know It All

jmlanzaf

@JimTyler said:

@MFeld said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

You don’t need to add anything for a 1099 unless you plan to cheat on your income tax payment.

You’re wrong Sir Know It All. It must be added to cost so you can pay your tax.

That's not what he meant. What he's saying is that the 1099 doesn't create tax liability. With or without a 1099, you are supposed to pay tax on your profits. Of course, not having a 1099 makes it easier for you to CHEAT on your taxes. However, it does not charge your tax liability.

lonemountaincoin

@jmlanzaf said:

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

Congratulations, your coins have a $0 cost basis.

Tax is NOT the cost of doing business. Tax is the cost of generating profits and lawfully declaring said profits to the IRS. You can be really bad at buying coins and lose money, therefore have a net loss and zero tax.

DoubleEagle59

I've recently sold a few items on the BST and I had to dust off my Paypal account (from the old days on Ebay).

Everything is working fine so far.

jmlanzaf

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

That's fine. But my point was that you have been free riding all along, since most legitimate sellers have been paying income tax all along, so "tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price" has been happening all along.

You just free rode by being able to sell at a price that included tax, while not paying it. If you think prices are now going to jump 20%+ because tax evaders now have to pay tax, you are mistaken, because much of the world (e.g., the large sellers comprising much of the retail sales volume) has been paying taxes all along.

As a result, tax is already embedded in retail pricing. If you don't agree, just try increasing your prices by 20%, on any sales platform, and wait for the Big Boys to follow you up. If you were selling at 20% below the best price available elsewhere all along, I'd have to question why.

Not to mention that if your profit margin is 20% and you pay taxes in a 20% bracket, the added cost is 4% not 20%. But I don't think he cares...

ProofCollection

I'm surprised no one mentioned using an Escrow service. That's the ultimate in safety, but it comes at a cost.

jmlanzaf

@ProofCollection said:
I'm surprised no one mentioned using an Escrow service. That's the ultimate in safety, but it comes at a cost.

I actually used one (of sorts) for a $15,000 comic trade. A trade is harder than cash because there is no easy way to secure it unless you each pay each other $15,000. So we used a well known comic seller as a middle man. We both shipped to him. He verified the items and then shipped them on to the correct party. He got a couple percent in cash for facilitating the transfer.

NJCoin

@lonemountaincoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

Congratulations, your coins have a $0 cost basis.

Tax is NOT the cost of doing business. Tax is the cost of generating profits and lawfully declaring said profits to the IRS. You can be really bad at buying coins and lose money, therefore have a net loss and zero tax.

Actually, tax is not even the cost of generating profits. It is the cost of being a member of society. A portion of generated profit is simply how society chooses to apportion and calculate it.

Unfortunately, some among us have been able to free ride for so long that they now consider it an entitlement, and are apparently so resentful of IRS efforts to clamp down that they are determined to try to allocate the cost of income tax to their customers, over and over the fact that retail pricing has always contained a provision for income tax.

JWP

@Mr_Spud said:
As a buyer, I haven’t got burned yet for anything involving known Forum Members, so I trust them whatever method they prefer me to pay. But I wouldn’t deal with a newbie.

We all have been new members here. If that is a concern for the seller, just have the payment sent to the seller and the eller mails the item after the payment clears.

airplanenut

@lonemountaincoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

Congratulations, your coins have a $0 cost basis.

Tax is NOT the cost of doing business. Tax is the cost of generating profits and lawfully declaring said profits to the IRS. You can be really bad at buying coins and lose money, therefore have a net loss and zero tax.

My mom is a CPA. Every time I complain about taxes, she points it’s better to make money and owe them than to not make money and not owe them.

lonemountaincoin

@airplanenut said:

@lonemountaincoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@JimTyler said:

@NJCoin said:

@JimTyler said:

@Moldnut said:
PP goods and services is the way to go.
I would happily eat 3% on a free selling platform or just add it into the price.

You need to add 3% Paypal, 20% 1099-K

Yeah, well, if you expect me, as your buyer, to eat your income tax, then we will never be able to do business. The fact that the IRS is finally making it more and more difficult to evade taxes is hardly a customer's problem, in any business.

I have to pay income tax on my income, and it's only fair that everyone else be required to do the same. If you, or anyone else, have been able to get away with not doing that, for whatever reason, good for you and them.

If that party is now over, too bad. If you think that is going to drive retail up by any amount, let alone 20%, when the actual tax due will be on the profit, not the gross, good luck with that. Not gonna happen, when so many legitimate businesses, other than maybe some vest pocket dealers, have been paying taxes all along, and have them built into their prices.

No one expects you to eat my income tax. Tax is cost of doing business and must be added to sale price so from now on I’ll add 23% to my best price for trades with friends and you will be welcome to use regular PayPal.

Congratulations, your coins have a $0 cost basis.

Tax is NOT the cost of doing business. Tax is the cost of generating profits and lawfully declaring said profits to the IRS. You can be really bad at buying coins and lose money, therefore have a net loss and zero tax.

My mom is a CPA. Every time I complain about taxes, she points it’s better to make money and owe them than to not make money and not owe them.

Great problem to have!