You Don't Know the Power of the Dark Side!
Zoins
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I was just reading an article on John Jay Pittman by Ron @BestGerman and it indicated that Pittman (JJP) eventually switched to the dark side, aka world coins, when US coins got too expensive for him.
I know some forum members have also done this.
How popular is this? Eliasberg also had a great world coin collection, so did he make a transition for this reason or did he have another reason?
Here's one of my Canadian medals from JJP's collection. Of course, some call Canada the gray side.
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Edit: If you meant big time collectors, I dunno.
I wouldn't say I made a switch, as I still collect US, but my World collection is growing quickly in relation to my US.
I have a handful of nice world gold type, a couple of boxes of chopped world crowns, and the currently top rated Japanese Koban registry set.
Price could be one reason people switch over to collecting world coins. But there are many more, including: variety of designs, links to one's ancestors, connections to US coins (i.e. world coins made at US Mints), etc...
I haven't switched but have bought quite a few world gold coins - bullion, numismatic and commemorative. Currently 50 countries and 5 territories represented so far.
Favorites might be a couple of Angels from the Isle of Man (see my avatar). That's a 5 kilo silver coin behind them FYI.
Katanga, Kiribati and eSwatini are probably the most random.
Gorgeous piece. Not surprised it's a 67. Nice matte finish.
Everyone
World coin (outside USA) collecting offers very rare coins for a small small fraction of what the same rarity US coin would sell for 100's of thousands and even millions of dollars. It allows small time collectors to actually own the super rare stuff versus just dreaming.
Not coins from say the UK those are already well known and expensive.
Do not get me wrong US coins are great but for most people the true rare coins are only dream coins.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
The common denominator is that coins are coins… and there is a world waiting to be explored.
What can be seen and found makes the hunt worthwhile… art, design, history captured mostly to inspire commerce and people, national pride and a sense of identity.
edited to add a picture
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Eliasberg had a silver collection that was no where close to that of his world gold which came from Clapp. So Clapp had a great world gold collection.
Latin American Collection
I made the switch to the dark side for a few reasons.
1. I found that there was more to be discovered, more excitement in the hunt when coins popped up all over
the world with less information transparency in pricing, and more opportunity to build a meaningful set.
2. In US coins, I felt like collecting had become where in line I was with the market making dealers. There is no thrill for me in that type of collecting.
Latin American Collection
"Dark side" could easily be seen as a false characterization, seems to be common these days. Just call it what it was, he expanded his interests and started buying quality foreign coins; this seems to be a huge trend these days.
The Dark Side infected me pretty early on in my collecting and I'm glad it did. I really enjoy the wide variety and deep history. I like the term too, it's fun.
Thanks for posting and congrats on the Japanese Koban registry set! Beautiful gold piece!
As has been mentioned in other threads, foreign coins were pretty much all we had in colonial times and were used extensively here until 1857, and beyond. IMO a serious historical collection of coins used on our soil should include a varied and representative type set of foreign coins.
Oh, but I DO know the power of the Dark Side! I was a convert by the early 1980s!
I don’t own a top-ranked Registry set of Japanese kobans like @lermish does (holy cow!), let alone a single koban. (Want one.)
But I’m proud of the small, eclectic collection I’ve accumulated, considering my relatively modest salary as a hotel night auditor. If I was a neurosurgeon or a bigshot corporate executive, I’d have an even more impressive collection, of course. But I guess most of us working-class folk can say that, huh.
https://www.colleconline.com/en/collection-items/20286/ancient-medieval-coins-to-1600-ad
https://www.colleconline.com/en/collection-items/21345/coins-ancient-to-romans-imperial-and-republican-the-twelve-caesars-of-rome
https://www.colleconline.com/en/collection-items/22135/world-coins-1601-present
Oh yes I do!
Been hooked since the 70's
World coins remain underpriced vs US. Many investors moving to them or including in portfolio.
One of my favs Mexico Caballito Peso.
I remember Les Fox (is he still around?) touting gem BU German one mark coins back in 1980. The U.S. coin market was super high for the time (Hunt Brothers and record high silver prices). Les thought these coins were a much better value for the money.
After all these years I'm finally studying what Asian coins to purchase if and when I come across them. Just hope I'm not too late to the party.
Roman Empire Antoninus Pius Aureus Standing Globe
Gold, 19.5 mm, 7.26 gm, Catalog: RIC 256a
Struck: AD 155-156 Rome
Obverse:
Antoninus Pius facing right
ANTONINVS AVG PIVS P P IMP II
Reverse:
Antoninus wearing toga, standing left, holding globe in right hand
TR POT XIX COS IIII
He's holding the globe because "Rome rules the world"
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
World coins represent a different challenge, where it isn't so much about the cost but more so about finding the individual coins for the collection.
My username is based on my lingering childhood obsession with dinosaurs and there are no U.S. coins (yet) with the ancient beasts on them. Nearly every other major country has had dinosaurs on their coins.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
During my military career I was stationed in a lot of different places. When I was in England I collected coins from Great Britian, then Crete and Greek coins, then the Philippines and their coinage, and lastly Japan and I collected them hard. Most in country purchases were very reasonable and most coins were easy to find and it wasn't unusual for my neighbors to have a stash of old coins that they were more than happy to share with me. While in England not only did I collect that coinage but I got big into world crowns but unfortunately I bought mostly new and current stuff including a lot of Franklin Mint crown size coins. Now all those are sitting in a box somewhere since I retired from the military I quit chasing all the other stuff and concentrated on US coins. (and stamps, did I mention stamps? US and worldwide, what a lot of money down the tube).
I have both US and world collections. I like the different challenges with both. I have mostly silver US coins and gold world coins. I do like spending four figures on a world coin that would be six figures in a US series!
I do dabble in world coins once in a while. I love German historical coins (WW1 and WW2 era) as well as currency. I also picked this up recently, just because I thought it was very cool.
Only cost around $100 USD all in, so pretty affordable to most folks. It's just a beautiful design, and the "5 DOLLARS" caught my eye! RIP Queen Elizabeth II...
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
Here are a few more in my collection. German stuff!
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
I sold all my U.S. in the 1980s, except for a complete Buffalo 5C collection in VF-AU. As an American growing up in Maine, near the Canadian border, I had collected Canadian cents since childhood and migrated back to collecting them. Forty + years later:
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/canadian-federation/canadian-cents/canadian-large-cents-varieties-circulation-strikes-1858-1920/alltimeset/11655
http://www.victoriancent.com
Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "the dark side"?
Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter
I resumed collecting in 1998 after multiple prior breaks.
I initially chose "world" coinage due to the value proposition, but it's not the reason now. In 1998, using the Red Book I priced multiple series (IHC, Barber nickels, Mercury dimes, a few others) in MS and PR that I thought I could mostly complete in grades up MS-63 or PR-63 with my anticipated budget. I also priced a partial US type set.
From "world" coinage, using Krause (I didn't know it was inaccurate) I priced the South Africa Union series (about 600 coins for both MS and PR) setting an arbitrary cut-off of $500 per coin. I also identified several partial sets of interest to me, such as the crown sized Bolivia Boliviano, Mexico pillar denominations (I didn't know other mints existed at the time), and a Mexico Cap & Ray denomination set.
I initially mostly bought South Africa because none of this US coinage was of real interest to me. I had collected US coinage virtually exclusively in my multiple prior collecting periods, but the series I used to like most were either too expensive for me (capped bust halves) or didn't have the same appeal.
After I liquidated most of my South Africa collection in anticipation of the subsequent bubble collapse, I switched almost exclusively to the pillar coinage which is what I almost entirely buy now. I had already bought a number of these coins (20 to be exact) including really nice ones, mostly from Peru which is still the majority of my collection now. Prior to 2010, I did try to buy the nice ones I saw but wasn't looking as I do now.
I still can't afford to buy the US coins I prefer most (not referring to major rarities), but can afford most others, just not everything at once or in the same quality. I can also afford most US series, just not in the same or similar quality I collect now.
I don't anticipate ever buying hardly any US coins because it's just too easy to buy and there are too many other coins I'd rather own. Buying the vast majority of US coinage is almost entirely a function of budget. No real challenge to 95% of it., at least.
I've always assumed it's a pun on Star Wars but never heard anyone confirm it.
It refers to world (non-US) coins and pre-dates these forums. It's an old term going back to the late 1990s, used by @Askari :
Ref: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12786223/#Comment_12786223
I found forum posts going back to 2003 Here are some links:
Same situation here.
The origin of the phrase "dark side" in reference to world coin collecting is only indirectly linked to Star Wars. The origin, as I'm sure those older threads will tell you, is found in the idea that "the average American coin collector knows more about the dark side of the Moon than they know about foreign coins". Thus, someone who actually does know, like, and collect foreign coins is a "darksider".
The semi-derogatory term which darksiders use to describe collectors-of-only-US-coins is, of course, "litesider" - spelled "lite", not "light".
There was some discussion about exactly were non-Us-based collectors fall on the liteside/darkside debate. I'm Australian; for me, Australian coins are "normal" and US coins are "just another foreign country". So would an Australian who collects only Australian coins be a litesider, or darksider? And what about an Australian collector who only collects US coins? The consensus seems to be that, to avoid confusion, "litesider" ought to refer only to a US-only collector, whether they lived in the US or not.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I attribute it mostly to the US price level. Too many US coins are too expensive for non-US collectors to be competitive with their local coinage. There is no market for US coins at US prices above minimal to nominal levels, so any collector based elsewhere (attempting) to collect US coins either takes a huge haircut at resale or has to send their coins to the US to sell it.
This isn't only true for US coinage for (prospective) collectors from most countries, but it's a bigger factor. To most collectors, it's not worth the effort, as they don't like the coins enough.
I encountered this somewhat when I collected the South African Union (sterling) series as my primary interest. There were two market prices for me as a US based collector. A higher one in South Africa and a noticeably lower one here, maybe somewhat tied to the Krause catalog but not definitively. (Presumably much lower almost everywhere else.)
I bought most of these coins from sources outside of South Africa, but there was no way I was going to pay the South African price and then sell at the lower international price. Due to what I describe, it's my inference that a noticeable proportion of this segment held elsewhere returned to SA, though maybe it's ended or reversed now that prices are much lower vs. the bubble peak.
Part of it is US coins are relatively new (post 1800) and considered "bright and shiny" while World coins and ancients (pre 1800) generally are not. Hence liteside vs. darkside. Greyside came about for those of us that collect Canadian.
I consider the terms as friendly inside jokes amongst collectors.
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
My Ebay