I set my net realized expectations at about 75% of what I consider retail FMV. It’s usually about right on average. Please don’t take offense but the 3c, which seems to have done badly, does not look gem to my eyes. Spots kill it for me.
While they’re not typically binding, estimates obtained from an auction house can be helpful. I’m asked to provide them by potential consignors and/or colleagues, pretty much on a daily basis. And there are times when, based on a potential consignor’s hopes or expectations, I let them know that I think they’ll be disappointed.
I offer one major caution, however. There are some companies that will intentionally provide unrealistically high estimates in order to get people to consign. And by the time the consignor finds that out, the coins have already sold. So if you’re going to get estimates, you might want to ask upon what basis they were arrived at.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
First, plaudits to the OP who has responded quite well to fair criticism here. Often, when volatile questions are posed here, a percentage of the respondents come across as 'snarky', even though they are trying to help. You have observed, evaluated, and perhaps learned a bit from several quality posters here. Bravo to you . . . .foremost.
To your point, several above opinions deserve an echo here. Yes, the market has spoken. NGC coins for me have also been my lowest returns on GC. The values you expect/quote/read/realized are potentially a bit inflated (I am also guilty of that at times). And . . . always keep in mind that even on GC, bidders will calculate in the potential (very fair, and in the case of GC, VERY fair) premiums, and adjust their bids accordingly.
I have noticed that on the majority of coins (and there are many specialized exceptions) bidders will bring a coin up to Greysheet Bid (GSB). If someone sees a coin going too cheaply in their opinion, they will kick it up (just out of spite???). But conversely, no one seems to want to bid much OVER GSB either, unless you hit a flyer and a couple people really want your coin. Those are joyous selling moments. All-in-all, for generic decent coins . . . I always look at GSB and figure my return is expected to be that number, minus fees. It almost inevitably ends up right there.
Overall, I understand you and your frustration. I think you have helped me as well . . .and so have respondents, as I was planning on a sale load going in, but I think it may be wise to wait a month and avoid the December blahs.
Sorry to hear about the results being less than expected. Auctions are always a risk and I don’t think December is necessarily a bad month to sell. Some people are looking for gifts or spending their holiday funds. Summer is often claimed to be the other bad time since people are on vacation/focusing on things outside of coins. January might be a poor time too as people could be paying off their holiday bills.
In general, my philosophy is not to auction anything if one isn’t a risk taker. Just set your price (with some wiggle room for an offer) and let the coin sit at a fixed price on eBay, the BST, or with a trusted dealer. You can also try to go to a bigger show and see if dealers will pay your ask. Now if one wants a guaranteed sale that is relatively quick, then an auction is best (or a fixed price that is enough below comps).
You have to include the BP when comparing to FMV. Per TomB if you include the BP, you actually did quite well. Also, as has been discussed in the past, PCGS price guide is a rough proxy for dealer retail value, not fair value realized at auction.
@U1chicago said:
Sorry to hear about the results being less than expected. Auctions are always a risk and I don’t think December is necessarily a bad month to sell. Some people are looking for gifts or spending their holiday funds.
That's what I was thinking when I planned this. Live and learn, eh?
"Brother, can you spare a dime?" (Especially a 1975 no S proof?)
@jmlanzaf said:
Unless they sold on one bid, I'm not sure why you care what the minimum was set at.
Even if 2 or more bids, the highest one may have ultimately valued the coin(s) near what the OP may have wished the opening bid was. If it was much lower, than a few bottom feeders got beat but the winning bid still wasn't what someone may have been willing to pay.
@jmlanzaf said:
Unless they sold on one bid, I'm not sure why you care what the minimum was set at.
Even if 2 or more bids, the highest one may have ultimately valued the coin(s) near what the OP may have wished the opening bid was. If it was much lower, than a few bottom feeders got beat but the winning bid still wasn't what someone may have been willing to pay.
So, that may be why he cared.
Sure, although that really removes the auction format and creates a fixed price sale, but it's a valid point.
If you want a fixed price sale, there are other venues. Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I personally prefer Great Collections, I have had great results, ok results and not so good results over the years.. The "market"..... Lots of smart folks talk about it. What is it? I think its what someone is willing to pay and at given time under a set of circumstances plus the "X" factor. Two folks need a coin and bid it up. I thought you had some nice coins. Just my thoughts on it, but when I send a coin to auction I have no expectations but I know I am moving on from that coin into something else and let it play out. Move on and know that your coins went to a good home and the new owner is happy and it made their day!
Any auction held in a month that has 28 days is a crap shoot. I have bought and sold and have been disappointed in the results as well as extremely elated. This is the real world that we live in.
To blast on an auction house about your results not being to your liking is not the proper thing to do. Of course they would love for every coin they sell getting top dollar.
It’s a moot point now, but perhaps you should have consigned your coins to a dealer or two that is setting up at FUN. This way you could have set the prices that you would be comfortable with.
As other have said the coins are nice collector coins but not the type of quality, rare or hype that will get bidding wars. The gap here was your value research and expectations not the venue. If you wanted closer to retail which you got surprisingly close (btw), consignment with a specialized dealers might have netted you 5-10% more while taking who knows how long to move and pay.
The few points you paid in realization is a small price to pay for GC customer service, turnaround and prompt payment. You did better than you think the only one that was near wholesale was the trade dollar. Common problem coins are not auctions strong suits, they aren’t often going to a retail buyer/collector as more often to a mid tier dealer looking for mark ups to suckers.
To blast GC is low brow of you IMHO, even if you got soft results it is the nature of the game and they did everything they could. Knowledge of subject and process is king and you should read these posts and look for the truth, modify you post and apologize to Ian.
GC auction archives are a great way to research what the same coins have sold for at the same venue. For the 3c silver, this link should show you the results... you'll see six PR65 sales in there (including yours from December 2024). I've got them sorted by highest price.
The top two are PCGS old holders with CAC beans and with Buyer's Premium (BP) they were about $2500.
The next two are PCGS without beans and they were $2360.
The last one was an NGC that sold just over a year ago for $2084. Yours grossed $2109.
I realize that's anecdotal, as are other results above, but I would have expected yours to sell for just about what it sold for!
And I wouldn't presume to tell you to be disappointed in yourself, but you can take some learnings away. This was your FIRST dealing with a new medium and you jumped right in with "six of your rarest coins," right before Christmas. It seems risky, as others have noted. If you had a bottom line, you could have set a reserve, as you know.
Another future tip: you can hype your sales up on forums or social media. Posting the gorgeous images that GreatCollections took of your coins would make for a nice post in the BST section of this forum.
Finally, I'll note that GC's lower BPs (10% if you don't charge it vs. the 20% charged by some houses) puts more money in a seller's pocket. Plus, their fee structure for coins that sell for more than $1k is very attractive.
Live and learn. Once I sold a common Roosy in PCGS66 on GC for $3. After fees, the sale cost me about 15 cents. Yes, I had to pay for someone to take my nice dime! (Next time I sold a common Roosy, it was on eBay with a BIN price!)
Lots of good info here, and the OP seems to be taking everyone's viewpoints the right way.
Selling is full of emotional ups and downs. Selling coins from time to time is really important. Trying a bunch of different venues and methods is educational. Having an auction close during the Superbowl can be a bummer.
Learning to pay the right amount the first time is valuable. Most of the eventual financial excitement or disappointment in a coin is established the moment you buy it.
My experience with the “Coin Facts” price guide is that it tends to be on the high side. I’ve found that if I bid those amounts, discounted for the buyers’ fee, that I often win the lot. I would not expect those amounts to be price realized on a constant basis.
Also you need to take into account that most bidders take the buyers’ fee into account when they formulate their bids. Those who don’t are “yahoos” in my opinion. Buyers’s fees are not paid with “Monopoly Money.”
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@jmlanzaf said:
Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I do anyway. I've been watching a particular coin on GC for a few weeks, but their minimum bid is full PCGS Price Guide. Add in the buyer's fee, and I'd be way over that. It's a decent coin in the grade I'm looking for, but nothing outstanding. No green bean, and being upper four figures, it more than likely has been submitted in the past.
Setting the minimum bid too high induces me to turn the page, and I never look back. Setting it at retail, sometimes ignoring the buyer’s fee, is a sure way to end up with a “no sale” lot.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@allnewsanchor . I was thinking about you, and I don't know if you are all full up on feedback but I did have one other thought.
I don't know you, your collection or how you got your coins but I have been lucky for almost 40 years to have a friend named Brian. He is a vest pocket dealer who sells more coins in a month than I might sell in 10 years. I often ask him for insight on a coin or coins I might be looking to buy or sell. Perhaps you know someone in your life who has more experience. just a thought.
Anyway. If i remember you are an actual journalist. I have a friend who runs a small town newspaper and he always says. "If you ain't got at least two different sources you ain't got nuthin!" James
I offer one major caution, however. There are some companies that will intentionally provide unrealistically high estimates in order to get people to consign. And by the time the consignor finds that out, the coins have already sold. So if you’re going to get estimates, you might want to ask upon what basis they were arrived at.
Totally different situation, but I know one extreme example where this happened, except that most of the coins did not sell. It was for a South African collection auctioned by a UK firm.
Probably the biggest bust ever. Opening bids were too high or way too high, which must have been set in an attempt to meet the consignor's minimum for the entire collection.
@seatedlib3991 said: @allnewsanchor . I was thinking about you, and I don't know if you are all full up on feedback but I did have one other thought.
I don't know you, your collection or how you got your coins but I have been lucky for almost 40 years to have a friend named Brian. He is a vest pocket dealer who sells more coins in a month than I might sell in 10 years. I often ask him for insight on a coin or coins I might be looking to buy or sell. Perhaps you know someone in your life who has more experience. just a thought.
Anyway. If i remember you are an actual journalist. I have a friend who runs a small town newspaper and he always says. "If you ain't got at least two different sources you ain't got nuthin!" James
James... you are a gentleman and a scholar.
"Brother, can you spare a dime?" (Especially a 1975 no S proof?)
Everybody knows Auctions can essentially have their risk / rewards and can be a wholesale blowout. Conversely rich collectors in a bid war may bid it up. YMMV. The other factor is current market conditions.
Your 1895 S Morgan - CDN Bid is $1560 / $1950 CPG (Mkt retail). It did well getting above bid. Many when bid there make a recruit list then bid 80-95 pct of bid in final seconds. I think u did well on that one. Possibly winner could be some dealer try sell for 2000 - 2250. It’s really tough find one on bourse.
With that kind of big ticket material I would want direct control - retail it on bourse from my table at a show, etc.
I really like GC and have picked up some really fantastic acquisitions.
I usually check Coinfacts for auction records; I'd think that HA is stronger for coins like that. I had similar problems around 10 years ago with GC and have not done business with them since.
One thought also occurred to me, does GC ever send out auction catalogs?
Just curious, I and not saying this in a negative way.
If I'm not mistaken I belive they do not.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
@Morgan13 said:
One thought also occurred to me, does GC ever send out auction catalogs?
Just curious, I and not saying this in a negative way.
If I'm not mistaken I belive they do not.
Auction catalogs are a waste of money and resources unless it’s for a blockbuster sale, like Eliasberg. Then there is a reason to add a sale like that to your library if the cataloging was first rate.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@jmlanzaf said:
Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I do anyway. I've been watching a particular coin on GC for a few weeks, but their minimum bid is full PCGS Price Guide. Add in the buyer's fee, and I'd be way over that. It's a decent coin in the grade I'm looking for, but nothing outstanding. No green bean, and being upper four figures, it more than likely has been submitted in the past.
"Regretfully, we cannot accept consignments where the Minimum Bids are higher than
80% of their listed values on this form. If your Minimum Bids are above the market
price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
How about months? At this stage of the game, GC is not hurting for business. It bothers me when GC turns a blind eye on this policy. Or do consignors get around this technicality by overstating the value of their coins on the listing form?
1876 Trade $ (UNC, cleaned) returned $625. FMV for the top AU grade is 760.
With buyers fees your Trade Dollar sold for $703. If you are going to compare prices you need to include selling fees.
There was a 1876 UNC Cleaned Trade Dollar that sold in Jan 2024 at GC for $815. When I look at your Trade Dollar I could make an argument that your coin is AU Details Cleaned as the obverse shows circulation rub on Liberty's shoulder, arms, knee and cheek. The obverse shows no luster in the photo and some luster in the protected areas on the reverse. There is nothing special on the example that is going to bring a strong price.
Interesting thread. I like Ian and GC but nevertheless here are a few thoughts:
1. Your coins are not in hot areas right now so there will be fewer potential buyers. A lot of these coins were likely bought by type collectors who don’t need to stretch like series collectors sometimes do.
2. If you think your coins have exceptional eye appeal for grade, consider selling in a venue that maximizes in- person viewing. GC is a photo-seen venue, which is different. ( As an aside, Ian has always been good about giving his opinions on GC coins when I have asked him, which helps).
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
@jmlanzaf said:
Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I do anyway. I've been watching a particular coin on GC for a few weeks, but their minimum bid is full PCGS Price Guide. Add in the buyer's fee, and I'd be way over that. It's a decent coin in the grade I'm looking for, but nothing outstanding. No green bean, and being upper four figures, it more than likely has been submitted in the past.
"Regretfully, we cannot accept consignments where the Minimum Bids are higher than
80% of their listed values on this form. If your Minimum Bids are above the market
price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
How about months? At this stage of the game, GC is not hurting for business. It bothers me when GC turns a blind eye on this policy. Or do consignors get around this technicality by overstating the value of their coins on the listing form?
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
As a result, it does not matter what you state, or overstate, as a value. "If your Minimum Bids are above the market price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
@jmlanzaf said:
Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I do anyway. I've been watching a particular coin on GC for a few weeks, but their minimum bid is full PCGS Price Guide. Add in the buyer's fee, and I'd be way over that. It's a decent coin in the grade I'm looking for, but nothing outstanding. No green bean, and being upper four figures, it more than likely has been submitted in the past.
"Regretfully, we cannot accept consignments where the Minimum Bids are higher than
80% of their listed values on this form. If your Minimum Bids are above the market
price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
How about months? At this stage of the game, GC is not hurting for business. It bothers me when GC turns a blind eye on this policy. Or do consignors get around this technicality by overstating the value of their coins on the listing form?
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
As a result, it does not matter what you state, or overstate, as a value. "If your Minimum Bids are above the market price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
I think you misunderstood the sentiment of his comment.
I have used GC quute few times for 20 coins at a time and have been overall satisfied. One thing I have found, Christmas time is a tough selling period that many years of selling has taught me. Too much money being spent elsewhere by buyers to have the huge # of bidders that might happen at a different time. You must always consider the BP that makes for the total paid. Always a cost to auctions.
Sorry for your feelings about GC. I personally will continue with Ian everytime.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
There must be a grey area between unrealistic expectations for an initial price point and making a sale. I have never had a coin go beyond one auction but would have to think something is a miss if your coin is hanging around for 6 auctions or more? james
@jmlanzaf said:
Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I do anyway. I've been watching a particular coin on GC for a few weeks, but their minimum bid is full PCGS Price Guide. Add in the buyer's fee, and I'd be way over that. It's a decent coin in the grade I'm looking for, but nothing outstanding. No green bean, and being upper four figures, it more than likely has been submitted in the past.
"Regretfully, we cannot accept consignments where the Minimum Bids are higher than
80% of their listed values on this form. If your Minimum Bids are above the market
price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
How about months? At this stage of the game, GC is not hurting for business. It bothers me when GC turns a blind eye on this policy. Or do consignors get around this technicality by overstating the value of their coins on the listing form?
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
As a result, it does not matter what you state, or overstate, as a value. "If your Minimum Bids are above the market price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
I think you misunderstood the sentiment of his comment.
???? Did I? I read it to mean that a "workaround" would be to overstate the value to get whatever you want the minimum bid to be to be no more than 80% of it. And my point was that the next sentence states that they could reject anything at all, regardless of what you think the value is, that, in their sole opinion, is overpriced.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Don't disagree. However, I've seen many coins with no bids reappear months after months. It's not so obvious because they are not included on the "All Ended Items" tab which historically lists items on my watchlist that ended.
I'll give you one example of a PCGS MS CAC coin currently listed for $2,700 that has 29 previous sales with 23 of those sales selling for less at GC. Some significantly less in 2024. The listed price is also higher than the PCGS and CAC price guides.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Don't disagree. However, I've seen many coins with no bids reappear months after months. It's not so obvious because they are not included on the "All Ended Items" tab which historically lists items on my watchlist that ended.
I'll give you one example of a PCGS MS CAC coin currently listed for $2,700 that has 29 previous sales with 23 of those sales selling for less at GC. Some significantly less in 2024. The listed price is also higher than the PCGS and CAC price guides.
I’ve seen a handful of these listings too that keep repeating at what seem like above market opening bids. Some of them have sold (with one or even a few bids) after several relistings. My guess is that these coins come from people that consign a lot or spend a lot, so there is more leeway on the opening bid.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Don't disagree. However, I've seen many coins with no bids reappear months after months. It's not so obvious because they are not included on the "All Ended Items" tab which historically lists items on my watchlist that ended.
I'll give you one example of a PCGS MS CAC coin currently listed for $2,700 that has 29 previous sales with 23 of those sales selling for less at GC. Some significantly less in 2024. The listed price is also higher than the PCGS and CAC price guides.
I’ve seen a handful of these listings too that keep repeating at what seem like above market opening bids. Some of them have sold (with one or even a few bids) after several relistings. My guess is that these coins come from people that consign a lot or spend a lot, so there is more leeway on the opening bid.
Probably. I'm not trying to say it is, or should be, an absolute rule.
It's just a right they reserve. When they choose to exercise it, there is no "workaround" by simply claiming an inflated value. That's all I was trying to say.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Don't disagree. However, I've seen many coins with no bids reappear months after months. It's not so obvious because they are not included on the "All Ended Items" tab which historically lists items on my watchlist that ended.
I'll give you one example of a PCGS MS CAC coin currently listed for $2,700 that has 29 previous sales with 23 of those sales selling for less at GC. Some significantly less in 2024. The listed price is also higher than the PCGS and CAC price guides.
I’ve seen a handful of these listings too that keep repeating at what seem like above market opening bids. Some of them have sold (with one or even a few bids) after several relistings. My guess is that these coins come from people that consign a lot or spend a lot, so there is more leeway on the opening bid.
Probably. I'm not trying to say it is, or should be, an absolute rule.
It's just a right they reserve. When they choose to exercise it, there is no "workaround" by simply claiming an inflated value. That's all I was trying to say.
I do think they reject some of the attempted high valuations (and either convince the person to lower or send it back without auctioning). And some might slip by given how many coins are being sold at any one time.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Ebay gets very little revenue from listing fees. Everyone gets limited free listings. I haven't paid a listing fee in probably 15 years. Everyone, with some category exceptions, gets at least 250 free listings per month. I actually get 10,000
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Ebay gets very little revenue from listing fees. Everyone gets limited free listings. I haven't paid a listing fee in probably 15 years. Everyone, with some category exceptions, gets at least 250 free listings per month. I actually get 10,000
Okay, but eBay is a free for all. They'll let you list whatever you want, at whatever price. Even, apparently, obvious counterfeits.
Very different business model from a respect numismatic auction company. That's the distinction I was trying to draw.
If eBay gives listings away for free, and does nothing to discourage people from listing at unrealistic minimum bids, then it makes no money at all from those listings. Which might be fine, given its size and scope. I thought they charge for listings. Are even minimum bid listings free?
That wouldn't be so fine for a company like GC. Which is why they reserve the right to reject such listings.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
Ebay gets very little revenue from listing fees. Everyone gets limited free listings. I haven't paid a listing fee in probably 15 years. Everyone, with some category exceptions, gets at least 250 free listings per month. I actually get 10,000
Okay, but eBay is a free for all. They'll let you list whatever you want, at whatever price. Even, apparently, obvious counterfeits.
Very different business model from a respect numismatic auction company. That's the distinction I was trying to draw.
If eBay gives listings away for free, and does nothing to discourage people from listing at unrealistic minimum bids, then it makes no money at all from those listings. Which might be fine, given its size and scope. I thought they charge for listings. Are even minimum bid listings free?
That wouldn't be so fine for a company like GC. Which is why they reserve the right to reject such listings.
I was simply making a correction, not comparing ebay and GC.
Comments
I set my net realized expectations at about 75% of what I consider retail FMV. It’s usually about right on average. Please don’t take offense but the 3c, which seems to have done badly, does not look gem to my eyes. Spots kill it for me.
Not sure you could have had a better venue or better results.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
While they’re not typically binding, estimates obtained from an auction house can be helpful. I’m asked to provide them by potential consignors and/or colleagues, pretty much on a daily basis. And there are times when, based on a potential consignor’s hopes or expectations, I let them know that I think they’ll be disappointed.
I offer one major caution, however. There are some companies that will intentionally provide unrealistically high estimates in order to get people to consign. And by the time the consignor finds that out, the coins have already sold. So if you’re going to get estimates, you might want to ask upon what basis they were arrived at.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
First, plaudits to the OP who has responded quite well to fair criticism here. Often, when volatile questions are posed here, a percentage of the respondents come across as 'snarky', even though they are trying to help. You have observed, evaluated, and perhaps learned a bit from several quality posters here. Bravo to you . . . .foremost.
To your point, several above opinions deserve an echo here. Yes, the market has spoken. NGC coins for me have also been my lowest returns on GC. The values you expect/quote/read/realized are potentially a bit inflated (I am also guilty of that at times). And . . . always keep in mind that even on GC, bidders will calculate in the potential (very fair, and in the case of GC, VERY fair) premiums, and adjust their bids accordingly.
I have noticed that on the majority of coins (and there are many specialized exceptions) bidders will bring a coin up to Greysheet Bid (GSB). If someone sees a coin going too cheaply in their opinion, they will kick it up (just out of spite???). But conversely, no one seems to want to bid much OVER GSB either, unless you hit a flyer and a couple people really want your coin. Those are joyous selling moments. All-in-all, for generic decent coins . . . I always look at GSB and figure my return is expected to be that number, minus fees. It almost inevitably ends up right there.
Overall, I understand you and your frustration. I think you have helped me as well . . .and so have respondents, as I was planning on a sale load going in, but I think it may be wise to wait a month and avoid the December blahs.
Good luck to you in the future!
Drunner
Sorry to hear about the results being less than expected. Auctions are always a risk and I don’t think December is necessarily a bad month to sell. Some people are looking for gifts or spending their holiday funds. Summer is often claimed to be the other bad time since people are on vacation/focusing on things outside of coins. January might be a poor time too as people could be paying off their holiday bills.
In general, my philosophy is not to auction anything if one isn’t a risk taker. Just set your price (with some wiggle room for an offer) and let the coin sit at a fixed price on eBay, the BST, or with a trusted dealer. You can also try to go to a bigger show and see if dealers will pay your ask. Now if one wants a guaranteed sale that is relatively quick, then an auction is best (or a fixed price that is enough below comps).
You have to include the BP when comparing to FMV. Per TomB if you include the BP, you actually did quite well. Also, as has been discussed in the past, PCGS price guide is a rough proxy for dealer retail value, not fair value realized at auction.
That's what I was thinking when I planned this. Live and learn, eh?
"Brother, can you spare a dime?" (Especially a 1975 no S proof?)
Even if 2 or more bids, the highest one may have ultimately valued the coin(s) near what the OP may have wished the opening bid was. If it was much lower, than a few bottom feeders got beat but the winning bid still wasn't what someone may have been willing to pay.
So, that may be why he cared.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Sure, although that really removes the auction format and creates a fixed price sale, but it's a valid point.
If you want a fixed price sale, there are other venues. Auction bidders dislike opening bids at full retail.
I personally prefer Great Collections, I have had great results, ok results and not so good results over the years.. The "market"..... Lots of smart folks talk about it. What is it? I think its what someone is willing to pay and at given time under a set of circumstances plus the "X" factor. Two folks need a coin and bid it up. I thought you had some nice coins. Just my thoughts on it, but when I send a coin to auction I have no expectations but I know I am moving on from that coin into something else and let it play out. Move on and know that your coins went to a good home and the new owner is happy and it made their day!
I don't think is GC's fault. It is just the market price at that moment.
Any auction held in a month that has 28 days is a crap shoot. I have bought and sold and have been disappointed in the results as well as extremely elated. This is the real world that we live in.
To blast on an auction house about your results not being to your liking is not the proper thing to do. Of course they would love for every coin they sell getting top dollar.
It’s a moot point now, but perhaps you should have consigned your coins to a dealer or two that is setting up at FUN. This way you could have set the prices that you would be comfortable with.
As other have said the coins are nice collector coins but not the type of quality, rare or hype that will get bidding wars. The gap here was your value research and expectations not the venue. If you wanted closer to retail which you got surprisingly close (btw), consignment with a specialized dealers might have netted you 5-10% more while taking who knows how long to move and pay.
The few points you paid in realization is a small price to pay for GC customer service, turnaround and prompt payment. You did better than you think the only one that was near wholesale was the trade dollar. Common problem coins are not auctions strong suits, they aren’t often going to a retail buyer/collector as more often to a mid tier dealer looking for mark ups to suckers.
To blast GC is low brow of you IMHO, even if you got soft results it is the nature of the game and they did everything they could. Knowledge of subject and process is king and you should read these posts and look for the truth, modify you post and apologize to Ian.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
GC auction archives are a great way to research what the same coins have sold for at the same venue. For the 3c silver, this link should show you the results... you'll see six PR65 sales in there (including yours from December 2024). I've got them sorted by highest price.
The top two are PCGS old holders with CAC beans and with Buyer's Premium (BP) they were about $2500.
The next two are PCGS without beans and they were $2360.
The last one was an NGC that sold just over a year ago for $2084. Yours grossed $2109.
I realize that's anecdotal, as are other results above, but I would have expected yours to sell for just about what it sold for!
And I wouldn't presume to tell you to be disappointed in yourself, but you can take some learnings away. This was your FIRST dealing with a new medium and you jumped right in with "six of your rarest coins," right before Christmas. It seems risky, as others have noted. If you had a bottom line, you could have set a reserve, as you know.
Another future tip: you can hype your sales up on forums or social media. Posting the gorgeous images that GreatCollections took of your coins would make for a nice post in the BST section of this forum.
Finally, I'll note that GC's lower BPs (10% if you don't charge it vs. the 20% charged by some houses) puts more money in a seller's pocket. Plus, their fee structure for coins that sell for more than $1k is very attractive.
Live and learn. Once I sold a common Roosy in PCGS66 on GC for $3. After fees, the sale cost me about 15 cents. Yes, I had to pay for someone to take my nice dime! (Next time I sold a common Roosy, it was on eBay with a BIN price!)
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Lots of good info here, and the OP seems to be taking everyone's viewpoints the right way.
Selling is full of emotional ups and downs. Selling coins from time to time is really important. Trying a bunch of different venues and methods is educational. Having an auction close during the Superbowl can be a bummer.
Learning to pay the right amount the first time is valuable. Most of the eventual financial excitement or disappointment in a coin is established the moment you buy it.
My experience with the “Coin Facts” price guide is that it tends to be on the high side. I’ve found that if I bid those amounts, discounted for the buyers’ fee, that I often win the lot. I would not expect those amounts to be price realized on a constant basis.
Also you need to take into account that most bidders take the buyers’ fee into account when they formulate their bids. Those who don’t are “yahoos” in my opinion. Buyers’s fees are not paid with “Monopoly Money.”
I do anyway. I've been watching a particular coin on GC for a few weeks, but their minimum bid is full PCGS Price Guide. Add in the buyer's fee, and I'd be way over that. It's a decent coin in the grade I'm looking for, but nothing outstanding. No green bean, and being upper four figures, it more than likely has been submitted in the past.
My Carson City Morgan Registry Set
Setting the minimum bid too high induces me to turn the page, and I never look back. Setting it at retail, sometimes ignoring the buyer’s fee, is a sure way to end up with a “no sale” lot.
@allnewsanchor . I was thinking about you, and I don't know if you are all full up on feedback but I did have one other thought.
I don't know you, your collection or how you got your coins but I have been lucky for almost 40 years to have a friend named Brian. He is a vest pocket dealer who sells more coins in a month than I might sell in 10 years. I often ask him for insight on a coin or coins I might be looking to buy or sell. Perhaps you know someone in your life who has more experience. just a thought.
Anyway. If i remember you are an actual journalist. I have a friend who runs a small town newspaper and he always says. "If you ain't got at least two different sources you ain't got nuthin!" James
>
Totally different situation, but I know one extreme example where this happened, except that most of the coins did not sell. It was for a South African collection auctioned by a UK firm.
Probably the biggest bust ever. Opening bids were too high or way too high, which must have been set in an attempt to meet the consignor's minimum for the entire collection.
James... you are a gentleman and a scholar.
"Brother, can you spare a dime?" (Especially a 1975 no S proof?)
Everybody knows Auctions can essentially have their risk / rewards and can be a wholesale blowout. Conversely rich collectors in a bid war may bid it up. YMMV. The other factor is current market conditions.
Your 1895 S Morgan - CDN Bid is $1560 / $1950 CPG (Mkt retail). It did well getting above bid. Many when bid there make a recruit list then bid 80-95 pct of bid in final seconds. I think u did well on that one. Possibly winner could be some dealer try sell for 2000 - 2250. It’s really tough find one on bourse.
With that kind of big ticket material I would want direct control - retail it on bourse from my table at a show, etc.
I really like GC and have picked up some really fantastic acquisitions.
I usually check Coinfacts for auction records; I'd think that HA is stronger for coins like that. I had similar problems around 10 years ago with GC and have not done business with them since.
One thought also occurred to me, does GC ever send out auction catalogs?
Just curious, I and not saying this in a negative way.
If I'm not mistaken I belive they do not.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7
Auction catalogs are a waste of money and resources unless it’s for a blockbuster sale, like Eliasberg. Then there is a reason to add a sale like that to your library if the cataloging was first rate.
Stupid question...
Auction results posted in price guide exclude BP?
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
No, the APRs in CoinFacts include bp.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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CoinFacts does not have GC auction results.
"Regretfully, we cannot accept consignments where the Minimum Bids are higher than
80% of their listed values on this form. If your Minimum Bids are above the market
price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
How about months? At this stage of the game, GC is not hurting for business. It bothers me when GC turns a blind eye on this policy. Or do consignors get around this technicality by overstating the value of their coins on the listing form?
1876 Trade $ (UNC, cleaned) returned $625. FMV for the top AU grade is 760.
With buyers fees your Trade Dollar sold for $703. If you are going to compare prices you need to include selling fees.
There was a 1876 UNC Cleaned Trade Dollar that sold in Jan 2024 at GC for $815. When I look at your Trade Dollar I could make an argument that your coin is AU Details Cleaned as the obverse shows circulation rub on Liberty's shoulder, arms, knee and cheek. The obverse shows no luster in the photo and some luster in the protected areas on the reverse. There is nothing special on the example that is going to bring a strong price.
The thing to remember about auctions, auction bidders are hoping to pay as little as possible, Only a greater fool prevents that.
Interesting thread. I like Ian and GC but nevertheless here are a few thoughts:
1. Your coins are not in hot areas right now so there will be fewer potential buyers. A lot of these coins were likely bought by type collectors who don’t need to stretch like series collectors sometimes do.
2. If you think your coins have exceptional eye appeal for grade, consider selling in a venue that maximizes in- person viewing. GC is a photo-seen venue, which is different. ( As an aside, Ian has always been good about giving his opinions on GC coins when I have asked him, which helps).
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
????? No one "gets around" anything. GC is not eBay. EBay is happy to charge a modest listing fee and let an item sit forever while a seller waits and hopes a sucker comes along.
GC, OTOH, does not get paid unless an item sells. It has no incentive to indulge unrealistic seller optimism.
As a result, it does not matter what you state, or overstate, as a value. "If your Minimum Bids are above the market price in our opinion, we may return your consignment without listing in auction."
I think you misunderstood the sentiment of his comment.
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I have used GC quute few times for 20 coins at a time and have been overall satisfied. One thing I have found, Christmas time is a tough selling period that many years of selling has taught me. Too much money being spent elsewhere by buyers to have the huge # of bidders that might happen at a different time. You must always consider the BP that makes for the total paid. Always a cost to auctions.
Sorry for your feelings about GC. I personally will continue with Ian everytime.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee - $3 - $5 - $10
Up to Five Listings for One Nominal Fee: For one listing fee, GreatCollections will automatically
relist any coin that doesn’t sell (at the same minimum bid absent your approval), up to a
maximum of four times without any additional listing fees. Additional listing fees are charged
after five listings (on the 6th, 11th, 16th etc. listing). If you do not want your coins relisted,
please let us know under “Special Instructions” on the reverse of this form.
There must be a grey area between unrealistic expectations for an initial price point and making a sale. I have never had a coin go beyond one auction but would have to think something is a miss if your coin is hanging around for 6 auctions or more? james
???? Did I? I read it to mean that a "workaround" would be to overstate the value to get whatever you want the minimum bid to be to be no more than 80% of it. And my point was that the next sentence states that they could reject anything at all, regardless of what you think the value is, that, in their sole opinion, is overpriced.
Right. Just keep in mind that GC is not working for $3-10.
That's not where they make their money, and, apparently, they don't want their listings polluted with a bunch of overpriced crap that never sells. Sites like eBay are far less discriminating, and derive a much greater portion of their revenue from listing fees on items that don't sell.
They've had complaints ever since Ian conceived the simple format
I've used them and have only groused about the search function
Don't disagree. However, I've seen many coins with no bids reappear months after months. It's not so obvious because they are not included on the "All Ended Items" tab which historically lists items on my watchlist that ended.
I'll give you one example of a PCGS MS CAC coin currently listed for $2,700 that has 29 previous sales with 23 of those sales selling for less at GC. Some significantly less in 2024. The listed price is also higher than the PCGS and CAC price guides.
Those prices include the BP or no ?
$2,700 plus BP!
I’ve seen a handful of these listings too that keep repeating at what seem like above market opening bids. Some of them have sold (with one or even a few bids) after several relistings. My guess is that these coins come from people that consign a lot or spend a lot, so there is more leeway on the opening bid.
Probably. I'm not trying to say it is, or should be, an absolute rule.
It's just a right they reserve. When they choose to exercise it, there is no "workaround" by simply claiming an inflated value. That's all I was trying to say.
I do think they reject some of the attempted high valuations (and either convince the person to lower or send it back without auctioning). And some might slip by given how many coins are being sold at any one time.
Ebay gets very little revenue from listing fees. Everyone gets limited free listings. I haven't paid a listing fee in probably 15 years. Everyone, with some category exceptions, gets at least 250 free listings per month. I actually get 10,000
Okay, but eBay is a free for all. They'll let you list whatever you want, at whatever price. Even, apparently, obvious counterfeits.
Very different business model from a respect numismatic auction company. That's the distinction I was trying to draw.
If eBay gives listings away for free, and does nothing to discourage people from listing at unrealistic minimum bids, then it makes no money at all from those listings. Which might be fine, given its size and scope. I thought they charge for listings. Are even minimum bid listings free?
That wouldn't be so fine for a company like GC. Which is why they reserve the right to reject such listings.
I was simply making a correction, not comparing ebay and GC.
Been plenty satisfied as a GC buyer as well as an occasional consignor.
And agree with those that are noting a softer market.