"The whole point behind coming up with the gimmick was to actually sell 75K. Not sell them and then have 30-40K come right back, for no reason other than that they aren't one of the special 1794. As I said before, if all they wanted to do was sell 1794 with a privy mark, they could have created a separate product for that, which would still have been a lottery, and eliminate returns from the equation."
I would also add that if a separate product w/ lottery was the issue; or people had an issue getting thru to the site to purchase; then why not do a limit of 1 "dutch auction type" sale. i.e. the lowest bid for the 1,794th piece is the price everyone pays. Set a 6 hour limit to bid. Start at $104 and whatever it brings is the selling price.
edited to correct: lowest bid for one piece is price everyone pays. If auction has a high bidder of $1000 and the lowest bid is $400; then they all sell for $400. One each is the limit.
I happen to think the gold will be a hit. I suspect the 17,500 units will initially be an issue to sellout - but you never know (it might take a week or more)
the premium is too high. the dealers are usually $500 over mint issue for 70fs; maybe a little more for a 70 with advance label. I cant see $2800/over? Tells me one of two things.....this one will be tough to get and will sellout quick, or, the dealers are just overwhelmed with greed.
@coiner said:
Posted on a Numismatic Blog site , following USM updates for the 2024 Flowing Hair Gold - however, this post was dated Sept 16th; obviously not confirmed if anything has changed:
"There is said to be no presales for ABPP, or Numismatic Bulk programs, which makes this release that much tougher to get. The Retail Price has increased due to the large spike in recent gold prices."
Okay, well a "Numismatic Blog site" is not official or authoritative, so it shouldn't be relied upon, or even cited to support anything. Beyond the post now being a month old, we now have one of the founders of CACG offering Advance Release coins for sale.
To me that looks like confirmation. Not that anything changed, but that the post on the "Numismatic Blog site" was nothing more than uninformed BS in the first place.
@Liquidated said:
Presale offers basically on top of upcoming offering price.
Yeah, they're just getting what they can, while they can. Playing off the frenzy that is going to make them difficult to impossible to get directly from the Mint on 10/15.
The reality, though, for anyone paying attention who understands how this is going to work, is that literally thousands are going to be returned to the Mint by the general public when they don't have privy marks.
And thousands more are going to be dumped on the market by the dealers obtaining them through the Advance Release and bulk purchase program, since there is not going to be organic demand for 75K of them at $104, $109, $129, or anything close.
Just have to let the early birds do what early birds do, and then allow the dust to settle. These very dealers will be selling the medals way below their cost. Which will be fine, because they will also be selling the ones with the privy marks, that they will also be buying directly from the Mint for $104, less whatever bulk discount they receive, for several thousand dollars each.
Windfall for the dealers. Screw job for the rest of us.
The silver has grown on me and for $129 to receive a slabbed MS69 makes sense.
A lot of negativity on the medal but it is still a beautiful design. In the end it is just a stamped piece of metal not designated for commerce like all other new collectors silver products. See no reason to dismiss this because it is a medal.
@Liquidated said:
Presale offers basically on top of upcoming offering price.
Yeah, they're just getting what they can, while they can. Playing off the frenzy that is going to make them difficult to impossible to get directly from the Mint on 10/15.
The reality, though, for anyone paying attention who understands how this is going to work, is that literally thousands are going to be returned to the Mint by the general public when they don't have privy marks.
And thousands more are going to be dumped on the market by the dealers obtaining them through the Advance Release and bulk purchase program, since there is not going to be organic demand for 75K of them at $104, $109, $129, or anything close.
Just have to let the early birds do what early birds do, and then allow the dust to settle. These very dealers will be selling the medals way below their cost. Which will be fine, because they will also be selling the ones with the privy marks, that they will also be buying directly from the Mint for $104, less whatever bulk discount they receive, for several thousand dollars each.
Windfall for the dealers. Screw job for the rest of us.
The silver has grown on me and for $129 to receive a slabbed MS69 makes sense.
A lot of negativity on the medal but it is still a beautiful design. In the end it is just a stamped piece of metal not designated for commerce like all other new collectors silver products. See no reason to dismiss this because it is a medal.
Great. But it's not going to make so much sense if you'll be able to find one for $69 before the end of the year. Which I think is highly likely if dealers are going to be collectively buying thousands upon thousands of them in order to get their hands on a few with privy marks.
By the way, I agree with you on the merits of the piece, and it honestly does not matter to me whether or not it is monetized due to some quirk in the Mint's authority to produce coins as opposed to medal. Aside from that, an ounce of silver is not worth $104, or $129, with a mintage of 75,000, regardless of whether it's designated a coin or a medal.
Which is why the Mint has resorted to this gimmick to sell 75,000 at $104. When the dust settles, slabbed MS69s won't be trading anywhere near $129. Nothing at all special about a MS69. All that means is that it's not a sought after perfect MS70.
@percyb said:
Not interested in this medal at that price.
Would that it were a coin.
Tomato, tomahto. Why would it saying $1 make a difference to you? It's a US Mint product either way. Would you actually want to spend it? If so, I'm quite sure you will always be able to find someone to give you at least $1 for one.
For all intents and purposes, it is a coin. Made in the exact same factory as coins, on the exact same planchets as coins. It's a coin that has not been monetized, solely because Congress, for no apparent reason, has given the Mint the authority to monetize any gold round that it wants to, but not silver.
Not sure why you would allow that arbitrary quirk to dictate what you're interested in and what doesn't interest you. But, of course, you should always feel free to do you.
They will use their pricing table to set a price just prior to release.
Right now, there is not even a column for this item. That said, most expect it to be around the pricing for the American Liberty, or L&B International Collaboration.
I would like a gold and a silver. Don't see any need to return the silver, even without the privy. These should hold their value with the awesome design.
BST references: jdimmick;Gerard;wondercoin;claychaser;agentjim007;CCC2010;guitarwes;TAMU15;Zubie;mariner67;segoja;Smittys;kaz;CARDSANDCOINS;FadeToBlack; jrt103;tizofthe;bronze6827;mkman;Scootersdad;AllCoinsRule;coindeuce;dmarks;piecesofme; and many more
Got my order in and completed within 1 minute at 11:00 am CT. I wrote to Ventris and asked her to send me a privy version with a signed COA. She said she will think about it and get back to me. I can’t wait!!
1794 $ was like a 2024 medal from today's perspective in that it had no denomination, right ? How did people know way back then if they had a dollar of half ? Did denomination rely on what 1794 $ and Half's edge lettering stated it was ?
Edge lettering: To prevent filing and clipping by the public to reduce a minted coin's weight, it was desired to ornament the edge. In this way, the removal of silver could be detected. For the silver dollar, lettering was applied by a machine which rolled the finished planchet between two parallel steel bars, upon each of which was half of the edge lettering inscription: HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT and ornamentation between words.
Yeah, interesting how this medal became unavailable right after the household limit was removed. My guess is dealers and flippers bought these up in search for the privy marks. There will be tons of these medals with no privy returned to the mint. If you’re still looking to buy this medal, hang tight. They’ll be back soon. Just don’t hope for one with a privy.
Check out the prices of the privy Flowing Hair on eBay - even before they are received. These people are nuts. But, anyone buying these is a lot more nuts!!
apologies for the unclear question. I know where the privy mark is, I meant when making my order, how will I know if I’ll get privy on my order before arriving?
@smartdriver said:
apologies for the unclear question. I know where the privy mark is, I meant when making my order, how will I know if I’ll get privy on my order before arriving?
I hope the Mint is ready for the tens of thousands returns of this medal. That quick sell out when the HHL was lifted means lots going to dealers and flippers in search of the Holy Grail.
@JeffM said:
I hope the Mint is ready for the tens of thousands returns of this medal. That quick sell out when the HHL was lifted means lots going to dealers and flippers in search of the Holy Grail.
Yup. But, as of today, they can be flipped for more than $104 each. So going to the expense of returning coins with no damage, in quantity, which will necessarily involve the Mint not paying for shipping, and then having to wait for a refund to be processed, won't make sense.
The question is whether people will sit on them to see what happens, or flip right away. I do expect the price to drop once the dust settles, but who knows? Maybe there is actual, organic demand for 75K at $104+. TBD.
Yup. But, as of today, they can be flipped for more than $104 each. So going to the expense of returning coins with no damage, in quantity, which will necessarily involve the Mint not paying for shipping, and then having to wait for a refund to be processed, won't make sense.
The question is whether people will sit on them to see what happens, or flip right away. I do expect the price to drop once the dust settles, but who knows? Maybe there is actual, organic demand for 75K at $104+. TBD.
Comments
I agree with this.....
"The whole point behind coming up with the gimmick was to actually sell 75K. Not sell them and then have 30-40K come right back, for no reason other than that they aren't one of the special 1794. As I said before, if all they wanted to do was sell 1794 with a privy mark, they could have created a separate product for that, which would still have been a lottery, and eliminate returns from the equation."
I would also add that if a separate product w/ lottery was the issue; or people had an issue getting thru to the site to purchase; then why not do a limit of 1 "dutch auction type" sale. i.e. the lowest bid for the 1,794th piece is the price everyone pays. Set a 6 hour limit to bid. Start at $104 and whatever it brings is the selling price.
edited to correct: lowest bid for one piece is price everyone pays. If auction has a high bidder of $1000 and the lowest bid is $400; then they all sell for $400. One each is the limit.
and none of these ideas will ever happen
Of note...................
LCR Coin raised their price another $200 since yesterday.
I happen to think the gold will be a hit. I suspect the 17,500 units will initially be an issue to sellout - but you never know (it might take a week or more)
the premium is too high. the dealers are usually $500 over mint issue for 70fs; maybe a little more for a 70 with advance label. I cant see $2800/over? Tells me one of two things.....this one will be tough to get and will sellout quick, or, the dealers are just overwhelmed with greed.
Okay, well a "Numismatic Blog site" is not official or authoritative, so it shouldn't be relied upon, or even cited to support anything. Beyond the post now being a month old, we now have one of the founders of CACG offering Advance Release coins for sale.
To me that looks like confirmation. Not that anything changed, but that the post on the "Numismatic Blog site" was nothing more than uninformed BS in the first place.
The silver has grown on me and for $129 to receive a slabbed MS69 makes sense.
A lot of negativity on the medal but it is still a beautiful design. In the end it is just a stamped piece of metal not designated for commerce like all other new collectors silver products. See no reason to dismiss this because it is a medal.
Great. But it's not going to make so much sense if you'll be able to find one for $69 before the end of the year. Which I think is highly likely if dealers are going to be collectively buying thousands upon thousands of them in order to get their hands on a few with privy marks.
By the way, I agree with you on the merits of the piece, and it honestly does not matter to me whether or not it is monetized due to some quirk in the Mint's authority to produce coins as opposed to medal. Aside from that, an ounce of silver is not worth $104, or $129, with a mintage of 75,000, regardless of whether it's designated a coin or a medal.
Which is why the Mint has resorted to this gimmick to sell 75,000 at $104. When the dust settles, slabbed MS69s won't be trading anywhere near $129. Nothing at all special about a MS69. All that means is that it's not a sought after perfect MS70.
Not interested in this medal at that price.
Would that it were a coin.
Tomato, tomahto. Why would it saying $1 make a difference to you? It's a US Mint product either way. Would you actually want to spend it? If so, I'm quite sure you will always be able to find someone to give you at least $1 for one.
For all intents and purposes, it is a coin. Made in the exact same factory as coins, on the exact same planchets as coins. It's a coin that has not been monetized, solely because Congress, for no apparent reason, has given the Mint the authority to monetize any gold round that it wants to, but not silver.
Not sure why you would allow that arbitrary quirk to dictate what you're interested in and what doesn't interest you. But, of course, you should always feel free to do you.
How much is the gold piece?
From the Mint, TBD.
They will use their pricing table to set a price just prior to release.
Right now, there is not even a column for this item. That said, most expect it to be around the pricing for the American Liberty, or L&B International Collaboration.
I would like a gold and a silver. Don't see any need to return the silver, even without the privy. These should hold their value with the awesome design.
JUST Made it into the waiting room !
T - 4
Order placed.
Placed at 01:30 order 39xxx
that was quick, order in
got my order in!
That was easy, got one
that was a much better experience
jdimmick;Gerard;wondercoin;claychaser;agentjim007;CCC2010;guitarwes;TAMU15;Zubie;mariner67;segoja;Smittys;kaz;CARDSANDCOINS;FadeToBlack;
jrt103;tizofthe;bronze6827;mkman;Scootersdad;AllCoinsRule;coindeuce;dmarks;piecesofme; and many more
Got my order in and completed within 1 minute at 11:00 am CT. I wrote to Ventris and asked her to send me a privy version with a signed COA. She said she will think about it and get back to me. I can’t wait!!
Just placed my order, no problems at all.
Collector, occasional seller
"Its a medal, not a coin."
1794 $ was like a 2024 medal from today's perspective in that it had no denomination, right ? How did people know way back then if they had a dollar of half ? Did denomination rely on what 1794 $ and Half's edge lettering stated it was ?
Edge lettering: To prevent filing and clipping by the public to reduce a minted coin's weight, it was desired to ornament the edge. In this way, the removal of silver could be detected. For the silver dollar, lettering was applied by a machine which rolled the finished planchet between two parallel steel bars, upon each of which was half of the edge lettering inscription: HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT and ornamentation between words.
In additional to edge lettering noted above, also same general weight as Spanish dollar:
1794 to 2024. relief is still a complaint
Been away for a while. Shocked to see multiple threads on the same topic. 😂🤣
I just bought my lottery ticket. 🤞
Still available on the website 😎
Yeah, interesting how this medal became unavailable right after the household limit was removed. My guess is dealers and flippers bought these up in search for the privy marks. There will be tons of these medals with no privy returned to the mint. If you’re still looking to buy this medal, hang tight. They’ll be back soon. Just don’t hope for one with a privy.
Check out the prices of the privy Flowing Hair on eBay - even before they are received. These people are nuts. But, anyone buying these is a lot more nuts!!
Sold today !!
Buy offers are now showing up.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago, Rob41281
I ordered mine, here’s to hoping I’m 1 of 230 with privy marks.
One of 1,794 with privy out of 75,000 struck
BIG Surprise - Order has shipped already ! Any one else ???
Mine is here by noon tomorrow
How does one know if it has a privy mark? Does my order number tell me if I’m in line for privy coin?
By looking at it. It's not hidden, and the medal does not come with a secret decoder ring. 🤣
Do you know what a privy mark is? If not, why are you chasing one?
I’ve personally never been interested in these type of things, but to each his own. If someone gets one, please post a few pics.
Dave
One with privy mark and one without for your reference.
Gee, they look almost identical
apologies for the unclear question. I know where the privy mark is, I meant when making my order, how will I know if I’ll get privy on my order before arriving?
You won’t that’s why it’s like a lottery ticket
I thought it was marked on the outside of the package: Privy Marked
No lotto win for me,
$110 delivered for a silver ounce ordered about 12 minutes after it went live & there was still a HHL of 1.
Looks like a solid 70, and dies are medal turn, not set in coin orientation.
I am good with it, glad I got a pretty one, so no return desired.
I hope the Mint is ready for the tens of thousands returns of this medal. That quick sell out when the HHL was lifted means lots going to dealers and flippers in search of the Holy Grail.
Yup. But, as of today, they can be flipped for more than $104 each. So going to the expense of returning coins with no damage, in quantity, which will necessarily involve the Mint not paying for shipping, and then having to wait for a refund to be processed, won't make sense.
The question is whether people will sit on them to see what happens, or flip right away. I do expect the price to drop once the dust settles, but who knows? Maybe there is actual, organic demand for 75K at $104+. TBD.
Ditto