Thoughts on Newly Discovered Continental Dollar headed for Auction in England?

1northcoin · September 2, 2024 1:08PM

Just came across this find. Anyone have more details and/or thoughts on what the coin could/should bring at upcoming auction in England?

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/rare-coin-found-bottom-toffee-tin-sell-auction

https://foxnews.com/lifestyle/rare-coin-found-bottom-toffee-tin-sell-auction

AUandAG · September 2, 2024 2:57PM

Interesting and NGC graded. Wonder why they didn't us PCGS in Paris.

bob

1northcoin · September 2, 2024 3:21PM

@AUandAG said:
Interesting and NGC graded. Wonder why they didn't us PCGS in Paris.

bob

Anyone with access to NGC registry able to provide how it graded? Obviously the primary concern was authenticity.

Jacques_Loungecoque · September 2, 2024 6:29PM

Just saw that article today too.
Isn’t that just one of those kinda dreams every single collector has? Like finding buried treasure. An amazing story indeed!

1northcoin · September 2, 2024 7:21PM

With 6,000 minted for the year and 100 survivors curious what this likely details graded specimen will bring at auction.

Also of note the metal is pewter and not silver so ask was it cast rather than struck?

PeakRarities · September 2, 2024 8:00PM

They look cool, but modern research provides substantial evidence that they were basically just souvenirs, struck in Europe, circa 1783 iirc?

PeakRarities · September 2, 2024 8:06PM

Found it-

https://blog.money.org/coin-collecting/myth-of-the-continental-dollar-1?hs_amp=true

CaptHenway · September 2, 2024 9:28PM

Sure wish there were decent pictures of the piece.

lcutler · September 3, 2024 12:07AM

@1northcoin said:
With 6,000 minted for the year and 100 survivors curious what this likely details graded specimen will bring at auction.

Also of note the metal is pewter and not silver so ask was it cast rather than struck?

They were struck in pewter as well as silver. I don't know where they came up with a mintage of 6000 though, there are no records of when, where or how many of these were struck.

1northcoin · September 3, 2024 4:15AM

Thanks for the responses. Any way to get better photos from NGC?

FWIW, the PCGS Price Guide suggests the lowest price $8,000 to $10,000, but for a better specimen $50,000 and up. Not bad for a souvenir struck after 1776 in Europe as a novelty.

291fifth · September 3, 2024 4:20AM

Since the origin and actual date of striking of these is now a matter of question I would not be surprised if the realization is disappointing versus expectations.

TrickleCharge · September 3, 2024 5:15AM

Whenever I see a coin struck in at least three different metals in relatively large numbers, my first thought is that it was made for collectors. Still an interesting piece though.

lilolme · September 3, 2024 6:31AM

These appear to come up somewhat often but holding onto a solid price.
The OP one is a CURRENCY and there are others as CURENCY (and other types / varieties and metals).
Note: I am assuming the enlarged photo of the dollar shown in the OP article is the current discovery and has CURRENCY.

Stacks APR sort where they come around in groups it seems . 4 in Aug 2024. 3 in April 2024. 6 in Aug 2023.

https://archive.stacksbowers.com/?q=eb10b004-447b-4db5-894b-5214d6703e54

Heritage APR sort.

https://coins.ha.com/c/search/results.zx?term=1776+$1+Continental+Dollar+CURENCY&si=2&dept=1909&archive_state=5327&sold_status=1526&mode=archive&page=25~1&sb=5&ic4=SortBy-071515

Coinfacts stuff (Note the APR here are only updated to May 2024 for HA and Aug 2023 for Stacks).

CURRENCY
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1776-1-continental-currency-pewter/794

https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1776-continental-currency-pewter-ms/794

CURENCY

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1776-1-continental-curency-pewter/791

https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1776-continental-curency-pewter-ms/791

Note: The Brass shows up in Coinfacts as a Die Variety of the Pewter CURENCY

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1776-1-curency-brass/792

BillJones · September 3, 2024 8:41AM

@PeakRarities said:
They look cool, but modern research provides substantial evidence that they were basically just souvenirs, struck in Europe, circa 1783 iirc?

Yes, I had a mild interest in these pieces until research disclosed what they are. I was never close to buying one because the quotes from dealers were always close to $200,000. I could not find any support for that price, which made it sort of an insult. Did they think I am a mindless whale? If so, they’d be wrong on both counts. I am at best a dolphin.

lermish · September 3, 2024 9:12AM

@BillJones said:

@PeakRarities said:
They look cool, but modern research provides substantial evidence that they were basically just souvenirs, struck in Europe, circa 1783 iirc?

Yes, I had a mild interest in these pieces until research disclosed what they are. I was never close to buying one because the quotes from dealers were always close to $200,000. I could not find any support for that price, which made it sort of an insult. Did they think I am a mindless whale? If so, they’d be wrong on both counts. I am at best a dolphin.

I think that makes me a harbor seal pup.

WinLoseWin · September 3, 2024 11:52AM

It is graded AU-58 by NGC as seen in the video from this page below. It does not yet appear on the auction company's website from what I could tell.

https://stroudtimes.com/ultra-rare-coin-from-1776-discovered-in-a-toffee-tin/

Here is the NGC cert verification from the number visible in the video.

https://ngccoin.com/certlookup/8220918-001/58/

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There are also more than 100 Continental Dollars known as PCGS alone has graded 293 not counting any details coins or NGC etc certified coins. Possibly they are referring to just the variety "EG FECIT" visible on the NGC label as PCGS shows 63 graded and NGC with 18 plus 10 as details.

CaptHenway · September 3, 2024 11:55AM

Couple of decent glimpses of the obverse here. The idiot never shows the other side.
NCG AU-58.

https://stroudtimes.com/ultra-rare-coin-from-1776-discovered-in-a-toffee-tin/

PeakRarities · September 3, 2024 1:51PM

@BillJones said:

@PeakRarities said:
They look cool, but modern research provides substantial evidence that they were basically just souvenirs, struck in Europe, circa 1783 iirc?

Yes, I had a mild interest in these pieces until research disclosed what they are. I was never close to buying one because the quotes from dealers were always close to $200,000. I could not find any support for that price, which made it sort of an insult. Did they think I am a mindless whale? If so, they’d be wrong on both counts. I am at best a dolphin.

Were those quotes for gem-level examples? Gems are round 200, but you can get a choice unc for 100 or less, with a spectrum in between based on quality.

In light of DMC’s research, as more and more people learn about it, I expect this issue to perform poorly over time.

scubafuel · September 3, 2024 3:14PM

I’m pretty surprised that these still bring strong prices.

Jacques_Loungecoque · September 3, 2024 3:44PM

@PeakRarities said:
They look cool, but modern research provides substantial evidence that they were basically just souvenirs, struck in Europe, circa 1783 iirc?

Well, that bubble is popped. I was not aware of that. Thanks, Dan!

Typekat · September 3, 2024 3:44PM

Reverse

https://ccg-imaging-ngc-coins-production.s3.amazonaws.com/17237324-854a-4def-89d5-3e65bb2a2130/NGC8220918-001_REV.jpg

lilolme · September 3, 2024 3:47PM

@PeakRarities said:

@BillJones said:

@PeakRarities said:
They look cool, but modern research provides substantial evidence that they were basically just souvenirs, struck in Europe, circa 1783 iirc?

Yes, I had a mild interest in these pieces until research disclosed what they are. I was never close to buying one because the quotes from dealers were always close to $200,000. I could not find any support for that price, which made it sort of an insult. Did they think I am a mindless whale? If so, they’d be wrong on both counts. I am at best a dolphin.

Were those quotes for gem-level examples? Gems are round 200, but you can get a choice unc for 100 or less, with a spectrum in between based on quality.

In light of DMC’s research, as more and more people learn about it, I expect this issue to perform poorly over time.

.
.
At least it was not unknown to bidders in the latest HA auction (didn't check any others) as this was the HA description whom I believe are the best in the auction business when it comes to cataloging. And yes, would think the prices should fall and I wonder more about the high priced silver examples.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/colonials/1776-1-continental-dollar-curency-pewter-n-1-c-w-8445-r3-au50-pcgs-pcgs-915766-/a/1376-4071.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

1776 $1 Continental Dollar, CURENCY, Pewter, N. 1-C, W-8445, R.3, AU50 PCGS. For many years, numismatists led by Eric P. Newman believed that the Continental dollar was a prototype for a circulating U.S. coin, intended to replace Continental currency. Present-day researchers, led by Erik Goldstein and David McCarthy, state that the type was struck in Europe for collectors shortly after the Revolutionary War. The series, known in three alloys and several die varieties, remains popular today. The present better-grade example displays spot-free silver-gray matte surfaces. A trio of small marks are west of the W in WE. Listed on page 51 of the 2025 Guide Book.

RobertScotLover · September 3, 2024 6:07PM

But look at the source, a UK company trying to sell it for moon money, what else is new here

Thoughts on Newly Discovered Continental Dollar headed for Auction in England?

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