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Elly de la Cruz hits a home run…..
Darin
Posts: 6,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
mlb network pretty much declares him the best player in the history of baseball, at least from the hype that’s what they lead me to believe.
So he has a random amount of extra base hits and a random amount of stolen bases in an extremely random amount of games played and I’m supposed to think it’s impressive because mlb network says so.
Let me know when he puts together a great regular season, so far he’s just a .240 hitter who strikes out a ton and has some speed.
Color me unimpressed so far.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
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At least he isn't as hyped as Juan Soto was, this kid hit the league by storm last year and even though he is batting way under 300 he is doing far better than a bunch of other sophomores
Yes but he hit .235 last year .410 slug., just not too impressive.
mlb network has been hyping him since last year and like I said made a huge deal about how many SB and extra base hits he has which is basically nothing special.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
He slumps for a month at a time. If he ever found consistency he would truly be a menace. When he’s hitting, he’s scary.
he is on my fantasy team, I need him to steal 4 bases per game like he did once earlier this year....
He's one of the most electric players to come around in a very long time. He's just 22 years old and already at 2WAR this year. So what if he doesn't hit for a ton of power? That's not his game. But if he gets a single and steals second, that's effectively a double though his slugging stats don't count for it.
'Nothing special'? Nothing special to lead the league in stolen bases while putting up 118 OPS+?
This kid is special - whether or not you want to realize it is another story.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
No he’s nothing special yet. Maybe in the future if he can improve. And by the way I said nothing about his power, which he has 10 hr which is good.
But yeah overall numbers nothing special thus far.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Nothing special?
/shakes head
/walks away
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
I still remember his first game against the Brewers...
He Singled. Stole 2nd. Stole 3rd. Stole Home. It all happened in a span of like 6 pitches. He can be scary at times. Then you'll run into him and he can't hit anything. If he finds consistency I think he's going to be a problem. I just hope the legs wear out before that happens or he's traded out of the NL central before he figures it all out.
So far, Edlc reminds me of Yasiel Puig. He came on like a house on fire when he first came up last season, and now is super streaky. terrible to mid for a week, then he has a great game only to slump for another week.
I hope he figures it out because he is an athletic wonder.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Exactly- I never said he couldn’t be a very special player, I just don’t think he’s there yet like mistlin and mlb network seem to think.
Like you say if he finds that consistency he’ll be very hard to deal with for opposing teams. But right now there’s no way I’m going to be completely impressed with a .235 hitter.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Agreed.
He is young, he could be a future stud or dud but it's way too early
(a) if you don't think he's a special player, there's nothing anyone can say which will convince you otherwise. Me and countless others? We find him to be a young, electric, exciting player. The exact type of player who can and should draw in legions of young fans to the game and we should embrace that - not crapping on him.
(b) Imagine it being 2024 and people still using batting average as a metric to evaluate a hitter, particularly someone who is clearly already above league average at 22 years old.
(c) what young player do you find worthy of the hype?
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
I think EDLC is always pretty fun to watch on defense. His relays are next-level and he has great range playing so deep with that cannon.
ELDC's issue isn't his average... it's his slumps where he seems to have a hole in the entire strike-zone. I would imagine with his frame he has to deal with more timing issues than other hitters, but that's just conjecture -- I have no idea how much impact that might have on a hitters timing.
I think William Contreras is one of the more underrated players in MLB, but he's started to get wider recognition. Quite a steal from the Braves.
MLB (not the network) loves its flamboyant stars. They will shine the light on Elly as often as they want until Acuna comes back.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
Mistlin you don’t seem to understand what I’m writing. I said he could be a very special player he just isn’t there yet because of lack of consistency. I don’t care what day and age it is .235 still sucks.
So is Corbin Carroll having a great year he’s hitting .202?
Gunnar Henderson so far is worthy of the hype. Bobby Witt has been very consistent so far this year if it continues all year long he will be worthy of the hype. He will have earned the accolades after 3 full seasons. De la Cruz hasn’t earned anything yet but like I said if he develops the consistency that every superstar player has then he’s on his way to greatness.
Sorry I don’t have him making the HOF yet like you do.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
The Cuban guys usually get overhyped but Puig was a weird situation. His house kept getting robbed during games from the money he owed the people that smuggled him out of Cuba.
Cruz is still only 22 and its tough when your franchise isnt really trying to win. He kind of reminds me more of Billy Hamilton with a little more power. His speeds his biggest asset and as long as he can find ways on base at a decent rate he should be putting up silly stolen base numbers with the rule changes
I just looked at his stats.
84 strikeouts already? Good grief!
With a batting average of .240?
For a lead-off hitter?
Sorry, that ain't gonna do it. Not even close.
Why do people insist on looking at individual stats like this to make an assessment of a batter?
His WRC+ is 118. League average is 100. Again, he's TWENTY-TWO years old. He's electric. He's young, He loves the game. He is literally everything you could want from a young player and you people are nitpicking his K's and batting average, instead of embracing him you want to pick him apart.
Jesus may I never, ever get as jaded as you lot.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
"before he figures it all out"
What's there to figure out? He's probably been playing baseball non-stop, all the time, 24/7/365 since he was five years old. He's from the Dominican Republic which has warm weather, baseball weather, all year round.
He's already fully seasoned. Not like some baseball playing kid from a cold weather climate who could only actively play baseball a limited amount of months per year. Now there's a kid with a lot of room for improvement, who has room to grow and hone his skills in baseball.
I'm not saying that this kid hasn't got talent. Of course he does. But in a long, long, season of MLB, if he gets nicked up and loses some of that speed, etc, along with those already high strikeouts and low batting average, then he's a brick out there. Worthless.
One thing I'm definitely not doing, is loading up on his rookie cards. 😉
Can you please point to where I stated he was a HOFer? You will be disappointed to find out I made no such claim, though your jump to a ridiculous assertion is common among those in these types of debates.
I simply said that he is an electric player - and he is - and I correctly pointed out that using batting average to gauge a hitter is ineffective, flawed, and not the mark of someone serious about the game, and more about trying to emphasize their bad take.
Your entire bone to pick is based around MLB network (gasp!) talking about a young and exciting player. That's their job! To promote the game! To try to get new fans! For you to get this worked up about it says a hell of a lot more about YOU than it does MLB Network or ELDC.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
Mistlin it seems like you’re the one that’s all worked up.
I know what his skill set is, I’m saying he hasn’t put it all together yet, and you jump down my throat like you’re some sort of baseball authority.
Do you even know what a joke is? You’ take every thing you read literally. Okay then yes I realize you don’t have a player hitting .235 with 84 k’s in 1/3 of a season in the HOF yet.
Lighten up a bit, he’s sucked so far but it’s a long season, just have a little faith.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Were you referring to what I said?
It’s not that it’s for sure but … he cloud figure his approach out or whatever he’s missing to avoid being so inconsistent at the plate. When he’s on he’s on but when he’s off he’s out.
Careful Steve, I think we’re dealing with his Dad on the board here.
To mistlin…….. let’s nip this one in the bud, no you never mentioned you were his Dad.
Again, lighten up a little and also I’ll criticize any mlb player I see fit to.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
I’m legit confused because I agree with you two. Haha.
84 strike outs already?
Maybe his coach should just tell him to drag bunt on every at bat. 😆
Maybe just not swing the bat at all and hope the pitcher is wild. 😆
This is what I will never understand about all the fans who say batting average is a poor stat to judge a player on. Why? It’s the basis of every other stat you seem to think is important(and I agree). Look at Bobby’s high batting average, it is the basis for his high ob%, it is the basis for his high slug%, it is the basis for his high ops. What happens to those numbers if his batting avg is .240?
Stupid list…. Mistlin
The war is closer than it seems like it should be based on the stats.
Bobby’s war should go up after tonight’s game. 3-5, 2 runs including the game winning run in bottom of ninth. Previous to scoring the winning run he hit a triple to drive in the tying run.
Oh and the royals were down 0-8 after 3 or 4 innings. 🥳
Stupid list…. Mistlin
And by no means am I saying elly’s stats are bad. I was saying he sucked to provoke mistlin which I had my reasons for doing.
So my question for those who say BA is a poor way to judge a player, what if Elly was hitting .323 like Bobby is after tonight. How spectacular does that make his other numbers, ob%, slug%, ops etc.
That’s why nobody is going to tell me BA isn’t important.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
"Batting average isn't important"
Signed,
Elly's agent
That is a pretty fair and accurate assessment thus far. He could be something special. He certainly isn't yet.
His OPS+ for his young career so far is 99 with 68 stolen bases and 14 caught stealing. What that has led to is 2.3 runs above league average in Run Expectancy, and a Win Probability of negative 0.8 so far.
It is going to take a lot more than an occasional long home run and a good amount of stolen bases under the easier new SB rules to off set that poor .312 OB% and decent .432 SLG%.
He changed the complexion of a game by getting picked off against a fundamentally horrible team. It ultimately helped them win. Is there a stat for driving MLB pitchers crazy?
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
Yes, it was a stolen base.
Nothing has shown that it drives MLB pitchers crazy. If there is any bit of 'driving crazy' going on for stolen base guys, it is off set with the next batter often taking strikes and getting behind in the count.
In the end, the play by play data shows exactly how often those lead to runs compared to every other offensive event...so it is already covered in Run Expectancy.
Nobody said batting average wasn't important. This is what drives people crazy - taking a comment completely out of context in an attempt to validate your point.
What I said was BY ITSELF it's a meaningless statistic. Who's a more valuable batter in the below scenario:
Batter A has .323 batting average and .370 OBP
Batter B has .273 batting average and .420 OBP
Do you see now why batting average BY ITSELF is a flawed metric? Who am I kidding, we all know that people by and large are unable or unwilling to accept new ways and analyzing data. If I had to guess, you will still say that batter A is more valuable.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
You haven’t given enough info for me to make an informed decision in your example.
And why do you keep misinterpreting what I write?
I said batting avg. is the basis or component of several other stats that are very meaningful in evaluating hitters. When did I say it was a stand alone stat.
I give batting avg. the respect it deserves. If Ted Williams was a career .270 hitter he still would have been very good but since he hit .344 he’s an all time great.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
I have given you plenty of information to make a decision. You just don't like the outcome.
Batting average, BY ITSELF, is an incomplete statistic, as a WALK gets you on base but doesn't count towards batting average. You don't get it and you never will.
Anyone with half a brain knows that OBP is a more complete evaluation than BA.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
Again you haven’t given me enough info to decide who is the most valuable batter. If you don’t know why that’s your problem not mine.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
I'm not sure what some are looking at here?
Of course he's got talent. A player doesn't make it to the bigs without talent.
That being said, his "not important" batting average is now a lowly .235 - that's starting to get into pitcher's batting average territory.
He has 87 strike outs already this season, leading the league. Which clearly illustrates that he is undisciplined at the plate, or simply not good enough to stay in the majors.
Frankly, he'd better develop some discipline real soon, or he'll be back in the Dominican Republic driving a mango truck.
Steve.. I don’t even know what mistlin is arguing about. Maybe that I don’t know what OBP means?
He’s fairly argumentative for the short amount of time he’s been here.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
He's made a few interesting points in some threads. But sometimes he makes himself look silly.
Maybe when he gets into the 1,000+ range of posts, he'll become a bit smarter. 😉
I don't think you guys are that far apart on your assessments.
Mistlin just likes to argue.
As a fan of Bobby Witt, and with Bobby now in his 3rd full season all I was hoping for is steady improvement. And he has done that, and much of that improvement has come because of a higher batting avg., and this year so far a higher walk rate.
It looks like Elly has an improved walk rate this year so far which has led to a higher ob percentage. But he’s hitting .235 same as last year. To get to the level he needs to get to, the one and only thing he needs to improve on is BATTING AVERAGE.
If he gets more hits his K’s will go down because of being more selective at what he swings at and his more important numbers go up.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
I'm looking forward with eager anticipation to Steve's prediction so I can add Elly to my Topps Dominican Mango Truck Driver Registry Set.
Come on people now. Smile on your brothers.
I don't 'just like to argue', but you're wrong and I will call it
Batting average < on-base percentage
It's simple math. Whether a guy gets on base with a walk or a hit, he's ON BASE. But in those two situations, only one counts for batting average and both count for on-base percentage. The fact you continue to argue in favor of batting average tells me you are the one who likes to argue.
Elly has played the equivalent of one season of MLB ball. His walk rate is increasing, his K rate is decreasing, and he's a menace on the basepaths.
Again, I cannot for the life of me understand why the MLB network promoting a young, exciting player (which is their job) upsets the old folks so much. Enjoy him! He's a unique talent! 34 stolen bases already with 23 being the second highest. So he doesn't hit for a lot of power. So what?
Good luck with that outlook in life. You certainly will need it.
ignore list: 1948_Swell_Robinson, Darin
The average does and doesnt matter, but you are spot on that his swing and miss rate is a huge red flag. Itd be one thing if he was just hitting rockets all over the place right at people but hes not.
Hes still very young so maybe that changes but all his scouting grades had his hit rated below average. Speed and power are what got him so highly ranked. Even in the minors his strikeout rate was very high.
With his speed he would be better off not trying to hit a homerun every time, but homeruns are what get you paid in arbitration. He really kind of set unrealistic expectations for himself coming out on fire when he got called up.
The Reds arent trying to win unless they can do it cheaply so his job isnt in danger for a few years but if hes going to have this style as soon as his speed drops hell have a hard time finding interest
I think he has the record for most strikeouts where the pitch bounces before the plate.
He’s exciting, and scary when playing my team, to watch.
From what I see. When all his timing is down at the plate he’s smacking the ball. He gets hot and then even when you’re pitching him safe he’s extending the zone and hurting pitches. But that only lasts for so long and then it seems to take him a while to get his discipline and timing back. He’s tall and lanky and that’s gotta be tricky. There was a guy who was similar - Tony Clark.
I only came across Clark Recently when I was looking at someone’s project to collect rookie cup cards. I looked them all up to see how big that set would be. Inspiration provided useful information. I remembered he was tall when I looked at the card back because for some reason I am addicted to reading the stories and stats on the backs of baseball cards. What were we talking about?
Get your mangos. mangos here!
Two for a dollar, three for 2 dollars.
Elly de la Cruz fan: Sounds like a good deal, I'll take three please. 😉
Batting average is incomplete, but why are you stopping there when you tout advanced stats?
His OPS+ for his young career so far is 99. That is a tad below average. That is certainly special compared to the fan watching, but it isn't special at the MLB level. it is average.
So a guy with a league average OPS+ is special, but a pitcher who ranks in the top 20 all time in run prevention(adjusted pitching runs above average) is not HOF worthy?? lol.
Bobby Witt will be better from this year and going forward. Witt is better already.
That’s what I couldn’t figure out. He thinks i look at batting avg. alone which is false but he’s the one who only gives me batting avg and OBP and I’m supposed to pick the more
valuable batter. I at least need slug. percentage and ops to make a decision but he only looks at OBP.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Yes, very odd. Then when you consider that Elly's OB% isn't even good, it is even more strange.