@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it.
It's an auction and a CACG. How can you justify returning it?
Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .
There’s no way I’d buy a coin through auction “fully expecting to return it.”
And that’s no matter how solid the relationship between myself and the auctioneer.
It would be unfair to the consignor and there’s a good chance it would cost him money.
While it appears the vast majority strongly dislike returns, knowing that few have the opportunity to actually examine coins in their auctions, GC has based their business model on:
Return Policy. On all non-bullion items, GreatCollections offers a generous return policy (unless otherwise marked on the item information page) as a courtesy to Buyers, providing the item is paid for within seven days of the auction date (or in the case of a Buy Now item, when you confirmed to purchase the item) and no request to delay shipment is made by Buyer. Certified coins/banknotes must be in the original sealed grading service holders. To return an item, the Buyer must notify GreatCollections within 24 hours of receipt and receive a return confirmation number. Please mail the coin or banknote via Insured Mail to GreatCollections within 72 hours of receipt of coin. Original and return shipping costs are not refunded. Returns will not be accepted without the return confirmation number. Registered bidders are allowed one free return each month. For more than one return in a calendar month, a 5% fee will apply, based on the total purchase price of the item. Clients found to be abusing our return policy will be notified in writing that they will no longer have any return policy privileges whatsoever. If you viewed the item prior to winning the auction or offered the coin for sale to any dealer, collector and/or marketplace, there is no return privilege.
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it.
It's an auction and a CACG. How can you justify returning it?
Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .
There’s no way I’d buy a coin through auction “fully expecting to return it.”
And that’s no matter how solid the relationship between myself and the auctioneer.
It would be unfair to the consignor and there’s a good chance it would cost him money.
While it appears the vast majority strongly dislike returns, knowing that few have the opportunity to actually examine coins in their auctions, GC has based their business model on:
Return Policy. On all non-bullion items, GreatCollections offers a generous return policy (unless otherwise marked on the item information page) as a courtesy to Buyers, providing the item is paid for within seven days of the auction date (or in the case of a Buy Now item, when you confirmed to purchase the item) and no request to delay shipment is made by Buyer. Certified coins/banknotes must be in the original sealed grading service holders. To return an item, the Buyer must notify GreatCollections within 24 hours of receipt and receive a return confirmation number. Please mail the coin or banknote via Insured Mail to GreatCollections within 72 hours of receipt of coin. Original and return shipping costs are not refunded. Returns will not be accepted without the return confirmation number. Registered bidders are allowed one free return each month. For more than one return in a calendar month, a 5% fee will apply, based on the total purchase price of the item. Clients found to be abusing our return policy will be notified in writing that they will no longer have any return policy privileges whatsoever. If you viewed the item prior to winning the auction or offered the coin for sale to any dealer, collector and/or marketplace, there is no return privilege.
Regardless of the terms, I still wouldn’t bid on a lot in an auction “fully expecting to return it.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Cougar1978 said:
64, possibly 63. Don’t like the fatal x scratches on cheek. Unacceptable for investment.
If it’s actually some higher grade on holder owner blowing it out (can’t sell it off bourse). Got stuffed in backfield.
Probably a lot of them low balled heck out of him. Many would only offer only MS60 money. I would just pass. Yes a lot of us know how to grade and look at coins. You just can’t skip by on some technical grade lol.
Did somebody try put their initials on it lol? Thinking 64 overly generous…for it.
Here's the photo from Justin @jtlee321 along with the photo from @PhilArnold from the OP again.
CAC photo is between 1/2 and a full stop underexposed. Something may be going on with the white balance as well. Picture settings seem a bit off. May want to change color saturation and change setting to vivid.
Always look at the coin. If you can't, get someone you trust to look at it. Never buy from a pic. If so, you're buying sight unseen.
Both of those images are well within tolerance for correct exposure. I'd say neither of them is perfect, but they're close. Nothing is going on saturation wise. They're different light setups.
I love buying from photos. If you can interpret images, the entire world of coins opens up to you. There are very few numismatists who seem to be able to interpret images and know coins, so for those that can... well... there's quite a bit of money to be made.
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it.
It's an auction and a CACG. How can you justify returning it?
Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .
There’s no way I’d buy a coin through auction “fully expecting to return it.”
And that’s no matter how solid the relationship between myself and the auctioneer.
It would be unfair to the consignor and there’s a good chance it would cost him money.
While it appears the vast majority strongly dislike returns, knowing that few have the opportunity to actually examine coins in their auctions, GC has based their business model on:
Return Policy. On all non-bullion items, GreatCollections offers a generous return policy (unless otherwise marked on the item information page) as a courtesy to Buyers, providing the item is paid for within seven days of the auction date (or in the case of a Buy Now item, when you confirmed to purchase the item) and no request to delay shipment is made by Buyer. Certified coins/banknotes must be in the original sealed grading service holders. To return an item, the Buyer must notify GreatCollections within 24 hours of receipt and receive a return confirmation number. Please mail the coin or banknote via Insured Mail to GreatCollections within 72 hours of receipt of coin. Original and return shipping costs are not refunded. Returns will not be accepted without the return confirmation number. Registered bidders are allowed one free return each month. For more than one return in a calendar month, a 5% fee will apply, based on the total purchase price of the item. Clients found to be abusing our return policy will be notified in writing that they will no longer have any return policy privileges whatsoever. If you viewed the item prior to winning the auction or offered the coin for sale to any dealer, collector and/or marketplace, there is no return privilege.
Regardless of the terms, I still wouldn’t bid on a lot in an auction “fully expecting to return it.”
Did he actually say “Fully” intended or just if needed he would exercise that right?
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it.
It's an auction and a CACG. How can you justify returning it?
Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .
There’s no way I’d buy a coin through auction “fully expecting to return it.”
And that’s no matter how solid the relationship between myself and the auctioneer.
It would be unfair to the consignor and there’s a good chance it would cost him money.
While it appears the vast majority strongly dislike returns, knowing that few have the opportunity to actually examine coins in their auctions, GC has based their business model on:
Return Policy. On all non-bullion items, GreatCollections offers a generous return policy (unless otherwise marked on the item information page) as a courtesy to Buyers, providing the item is paid for within seven days of the auction date (or in the case of a Buy Now item, when you confirmed to purchase the item) and no request to delay shipment is made by Buyer. Certified coins/banknotes must be in the original sealed grading service holders. To return an item, the Buyer must notify GreatCollections within 24 hours of receipt and receive a return confirmation number. Please mail the coin or banknote via Insured Mail to GreatCollections within 72 hours of receipt of coin. Original and return shipping costs are not refunded. Returns will not be accepted without the return confirmation number. Registered bidders are allowed one free return each month. For more than one return in a calendar month, a 5% fee will apply, based on the total purchase price of the item. Clients found to be abusing our return policy will be notified in writing that they will no longer have any return policy privileges whatsoever. If you viewed the item prior to winning the auction or offered the coin for sale to any dealer, collector and/or marketplace, there is no return privilege.
Regardless of the terms, I still wouldn’t bid on a lot in an auction “fully expecting to return it.”
Did he actually say “Fully” intended or just if needed he would exercise that right?
The first mention of a return was: “Indeed, CACG graded it as MS-67. I won this coin at a reasonable price. I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it…”
Later, in answer to a question: “Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it.
It's an auction and a CACG. How can you justify returning it?
Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .
There’s no way I’d buy a coin through auction “fully expecting to return it.”
And that’s no matter how solid the relationship between myself and the auctioneer.
It would be unfair to the consignor and there’s a good chance it would cost him money.
While it appears the vast majority strongly dislike returns, knowing that few have the opportunity to actually examine coins in their auctions, GC has based their business model on:
Return Policy. On all non-bullion items, GreatCollections offers a generous return policy (unless otherwise marked on the item information page) as a courtesy to Buyers, providing the item is paid for within seven days of the auction date (or in the case of a Buy Now item, when you confirmed to purchase the item) and no request to delay shipment is made by Buyer. Certified coins/banknotes must be in the original sealed grading service holders. To return an item, the Buyer must notify GreatCollections within 24 hours of receipt and receive a return confirmation number. Please mail the coin or banknote via Insured Mail to GreatCollections within 72 hours of receipt of coin. Original and return shipping costs are not refunded. Returns will not be accepted without the return confirmation number. Registered bidders are allowed one free return each month. For more than one return in a calendar month, a 5% fee will apply, based on the total purchase price of the item. Clients found to be abusing our return policy will be notified in writing that they will no longer have any return policy privileges whatsoever. If you viewed the item prior to winning the auction or offered the coin for sale to any dealer, collector and/or marketplace, there is no return privilege.
Regardless of the terms, I still wouldn’t bid on a lot in an auction “fully expecting to return it.”
Did he actually say “Fully” intended or just if needed he would exercise that right?
The first mention of a return was: “Indeed, CACG graded it as MS-67. I won this coin at a reasonable price. I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it…”
Later, in answer to a question: “Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .”
Fully expecting too if needed is what I ascertained from your copy of what he said which was the part I didn’t see in the first place. Anyway, I’m just reading along no need to question the King 😉
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
Chris can you please explain what a luster graze is exactly and to what extent it affects a coins grade? Is it worse than a contact mark? Thanks
A "luster graze" is not as bad as what one would consider a normal contact mark. Imagine a highly lustrous coin, like in the op, but another coin or -something- just ever so lightly rubs against it disturbing only the tiniest amount of the surface. The depth of that mark would essentially be zero, but the surface roughness of the coin (that which creates the luster) is disturbed.
At least that's my understanding, others can correct me if I am mistaken.
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
Chris can you please explain what a luster graze is exactly and to what extent it affects a coins grade? Is it worse than a contact mark? Thanks
A "luster graze" is not as bad as what one would consider a normal contact mark. Imagine a highly lustrous coin, like in the op, but another coin or -something- just ever so lightly rubs against it disturbing only the tiniest amount of the surface. The depth of that mark would essentially be zero, but the surface roughness of the coin (that which creates the luster) is disturbed.
At least that's my understanding, others can correct me if I am mistaken.
Just another example of how important it is to see the coin inhand and utilize no other preconceived notions. Just see the coin in good light and rotate it. Photos are tough even on low value Uncirculated coins, but once you cross the 66 value threshold it becomes a less successful endeavor. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
Chris can you please explain what a luster graze is exactly and to what extent it affects a coins grade? Is it worse than a contact mark? Thanks
A "luster graze" is not as bad as what one would consider a normal contact mark. Imagine a highly lustrous coin, like in the op, but another coin or -something- just ever so lightly rubs against it disturbing only the tiniest amount of the surface. The depth of that mark would essentially be zero, but the surface roughness of the coin (that which creates the luster) is disturbed.
At least that's my understanding, others can correct me if I am mistaken.
Thanks for your reply.
Chris would this be considered a luster graze? Doesn’t look like a normal contact mark and it doesn’t penetrate the surface of the coin. Or toning mark perhaps
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
Chris can you please explain what a luster graze is exactly and to what extent it affects a coins grade? Is it worse than a contact mark? Thanks
A "luster graze" is not as bad as what one would consider a normal contact mark. Imagine a highly lustrous coin, like in the op, but another coin or -something- just ever so lightly rubs against it disturbing only the tiniest amount of the surface. The depth of that mark would essentially be zero, but the surface roughness of the coin (that which creates the luster) is disturbed.
At least that's my understanding, others can correct me if I am mistaken.
Thanks for your reply.
Chris would this be considered a luster graze? Doesn’t look like a normal contact mark and it doesn’t penetrate the surface of the coin. Or toning mark perhaps
 
(Images commented out for length)
If I am interpreting your images correctly, what you have there is what the luster on the hair of a buffalo nickel does. The flow lines of the metal sort of change direction around there and is more "coarse" and play with the light. Especially on later die state examples. Looks normal to me.
Here's a playlist of a bunch of my nickels, you'll probably see the same thing on at least some of them.
If you click "watch on youtube" you should see the whole 1913-1938 list, I'm not sure about that on mobile though. The 1924 in the list is a real treat! https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL6F5IzkmpPbQDyebl89WpEZRDuu-ojHIe
@ChrisH821 said:
I'm at 7 on it. I'm betting that mark on the cheek is a luster graze that disappears at a different angle.
Chris can you please explain what a luster graze is exactly and to what extent it affects a coins grade? Is it worse than a contact mark? Thanks
A "luster graze" is not as bad as what one would consider a normal contact mark. Imagine a highly lustrous coin, like in the op, but another coin or -something- just ever so lightly rubs against it disturbing only the tiniest amount of the surface. The depth of that mark would essentially be zero, but the surface roughness of the coin (that which creates the luster) is disturbed.
At least that's my understanding, others can correct me if I am mistaken.
Thanks for your reply.
Chris would this be considered a luster graze? Doesn’t look like a normal contact mark and it doesn’t penetrate the surface of the coin. Or toning mark perhaps
 
(Images commented out for length)
If I am interpreting your images correctly, what you have there is what the luster on the hair of a buffalo nickel does. The flow lines of the metal sort of change direction around there and is more "coarse" and play with the light. Especially on later die state examples. Looks normal to me.
Here's a playlist of a bunch of my nickels, you'll probably see the same thing on at least some of them.
If you click "watch on youtube" you should see the whole 1913-1938 list, I'm not sure about that on mobile though. The 1924 in the list is a real treat! https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL6F5IzkmpPbQDyebl89WpEZRDuu-ojHIe
Appreciate all the input from you. Was wondering why my Buffalo didn’t grade MS 67, maybe something else on the coin I didn’t see maybe not this distraction
When I started reading the thread my gut reaction was no better than 66. Sorry but those marks on the cheek, jaw and chin just jump out at you first thing. I'm glad OP is happy with it but I advise keeping it in that holder and enjoying the gift of a 67 grade... because if it ever gets cracked it won't see 67 again. jmho
@RobertScotLover said:
Question to Oreville,
why own such a piece?
That's an odd question. Do you not understand why anyone would want to collect Morgan Dollars, or is it more a function of the market value of such things?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Here's the photo from Justin @jtlee321 along with the photo from @PhilArnold from the OP again.
CAC photo is between 1/2 and a full stop underexposed. Something may be going on with the white balance as well. Picture settings seem a bit off. May want to change color saturation and change setting to vivid.
Always look at the coin. If you can't, get someone you trust to look at it. Never buy from a pic. If so, you're buying sight unseen.
Both of those images are well within tolerance for correct exposure. I'd say neither of them is perfect, but they're close. Nothing is going on saturation wise. They're different light setups.
I love buying from photos. If you can interpret images, the entire world of coins opens up to you. There are very few numismatists who seem to be able to interpret images and know coins, so for those that can... well... there's quite a bit of money to be made.
You spend a lot of time photographing coins, and do a good job. My photos are typically of landscapes and wildlife.
Photos within tolerance doesn't mean they are good. If you say they are different lighting setups, I believe you. Any way you slice that cake, the photos are suboptimal.
I've seen plenty of people make mistakes interpreting these images and wound up buying coins that were subpar as a result. Hairlines, carbon flyspecks, stains. A dip gone bad. Questionable toning. Some guy who saw a coin I bought in a Heritage auction grossly overpaid me for it because the image didn't show a grade limiting hit on Miss Liberty's eyebrow on a Liberty Nickel, and he thought he was stealing a coin that could get into an MS 67 holder.
The people who makes lots of money honestly on coins are often astute people who get the first shot at new / fresh material. .
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@RobertScotLover said:
Question to Oreville,
why own such a piece?
Very simple answer. I like nice Morgan silver dollars but they represent a relatively small percentage of my collection. This coin represented a test coin purchase for me.
The point of my starting this thread is that I noticed that many Great Collections coins look worse in the photos than in person. I try to grade coin by examining them in person NOT by looking at photos. This internet buying is very difficult for me. I agree with @Elcontador that buying such coins on the internet is essentially buying sight unseen. There is a reliance on the CAC review. I try to limit such internet buying of coins without first inspecting the coin in person.
The recent purchase of this MS-63 1903-O was more exciting to me as it was a double play of an OGH PCGS holder and a gold stickered slab. I paid a very low premium for this second silver dollar.
Comments
While it appears the vast majority strongly dislike returns, knowing that few have the opportunity to actually examine coins in their auctions, GC has based their business model on:
Regardless of the terms, I still wouldn’t bid on a lot in an auction “fully expecting to return it.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Only off by 3-4 grades or so.
He who laughs last, laughs best.
Both of those images are well within tolerance for correct exposure. I'd say neither of them is perfect, but they're close. Nothing is going on saturation wise. They're different light setups.
I love buying from photos. If you can interpret images, the entire world of coins opens up to you. There are very few numismatists who seem to be able to interpret images and know coins, so for those that can... well... there's quite a bit of money to be made.
Coin Photographer.
Chris can you please explain what a luster graze is exactly and to what extent it affects a coins grade? Is it worse than a contact mark? Thanks
Did he actually say “Fully” intended or just if needed he would exercise that right?
The first mention of a return was: “Indeed, CACG graded it as MS-67. I won this coin at a reasonable price. I took a chance on this auction lot fully expecting to return it…”
Later, in answer to a question: “Good question, i did notice that GC coins seem to look better in hand than from their large photos. I have a solid relationship with Ian Russell and if the coin did not meet my expectations I would have felt comfortable asserting my right to return it. .”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fully expecting too if needed is what I ascertained from your copy of what he said which was the part I didn’t see in the first place. Anyway, I’m just reading along
no need to question the King 😉
A "luster graze" is not as bad as what one would consider a normal contact mark. Imagine a highly lustrous coin, like in the op, but another coin or -something- just ever so lightly rubs against it disturbing only the tiniest amount of the surface. The depth of that mark would essentially be zero, but the surface roughness of the coin (that which creates the luster) is disturbed.
At least that's my understanding, others can correct me if I am mistaken.
Collector, occasional seller
Thanks for your reply.
Just another example of how important it is to see the coin inhand and utilize no other preconceived notions. Just see the coin in good light and rotate it. Photos are tough even on low value Uncirculated coins, but once you cross the 66 value threshold it becomes a less successful endeavor. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Looks like an MS65 I used to own
Chris would this be considered a luster graze? Doesn’t look like a normal contact mark and it doesn’t penetrate the surface of the coin. Or toning mark perhaps
If I am interpreting your images correctly, what you have there is what the luster on the hair of a buffalo nickel does. The flow lines of the metal sort of change direction around there and is more "coarse" and play with the light. Especially on later die state examples. Looks normal to me.
Here's a playlist of a bunch of my nickels, you'll probably see the same thing on at least some of them.
If you click "watch on youtube" you should see the whole 1913-1938 list, I'm not sure about that on mobile though. The 1924 in the list is a real treat!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL6F5IzkmpPbQDyebl89WpEZRDuu-ojHIe
Collector, occasional seller
Appreciate all the input from you. Was wondering why my Buffalo didn’t grade MS 67, maybe something else on the coin I didn’t see maybe not this distraction
65+ ?
When I started reading the thread my gut reaction was no better than 66. Sorry but those marks on the cheek, jaw and chin just jump out at you first thing. I'm glad OP is happy with it but I advise keeping it in that holder and enjoying the gift of a 67 grade... because if it ever gets cracked it won't see 67 again. jmho
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
That's an odd question. Do you not understand why anyone would want to collect Morgan Dollars, or is it more a function of the market value of such things?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You spend a lot of time photographing coins, and do a good job. My photos are typically of landscapes and wildlife.
Photos within tolerance doesn't mean they are good. If you say they are different lighting setups, I believe you. Any way you slice that cake, the photos are suboptimal.
I've seen plenty of people make mistakes interpreting these images and wound up buying coins that were subpar as a result. Hairlines, carbon flyspecks, stains. A dip gone bad. Questionable toning. Some guy who saw a coin I bought in a Heritage auction grossly overpaid me for it because the image didn't show a grade limiting hit on Miss Liberty's eyebrow on a Liberty Nickel, and he thought he was stealing a coin that could get into an MS 67 holder.
The people who makes lots of money honestly on coins are often astute people who get the first shot at new / fresh material. .
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I was at NGC68 so looks fine to me
Very simple answer. I like nice Morgan silver dollars but they represent a relatively small percentage of my collection. This coin represented a test coin purchase for me.
The point of my starting this thread is that I noticed that many Great Collections coins look worse in the photos than in person. I try to grade coin by examining them in person NOT by looking at photos. This internet buying is very difficult for me. I agree with @Elcontador that buying such coins on the internet is essentially buying sight unseen. There is a reliance on the CAC review. I try to limit such internet buying of coins without first inspecting the coin in person.
The recent purchase of this MS-63 1903-O was more exciting to me as it was a double play of an OGH PCGS holder and a gold stickered slab. I paid a very low premium for this second silver dollar.