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Is this a coin that turned on the holder?

sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.

Comments

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t think it’s possible to tell from the photo whether the coin turned in the holder. But if it did, it’s not readily apparent to me.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2024 9:42AM

    Thanks, Mark.

    What are the signs that you would look for with the coin in hand that would differentiate it from just ugly toning? Signs of dipping, like impaired luster?

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2024 9:45AM

    @sellitstore said:
    Thanks, Mark.

    What are the signs that you would look for with the coin in hand that would differentiate it from just ugly toning? Signs of dipping, like impaired luster?

    If the toning is darker and ugly and progresses rapidly, especially near the rims, then it has likely turned in the holder.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    Thanks, Mark.

    What are the signs that you would look for with the coin in hand that would differentiate it from just ugly toning? Signs of dipping, like impaired luster?

    You’re most welcome.
    It would be far easier to show face-to-face than to explain but…signs would be (atypical) conspicuous and unsightly splotches or areas and/or colors that don’t look normal/natural. Shades of brown are colors that are often seen on such coins.Keep in mind that a dipped coin which has turned can range anywhere from dull to brilliant.
    Reading the above, my answer doesn’t sound particularly helpful and if it isn’t, I apologize for that. Hopefully, someone else can do better.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2024 11:14AM

    In case anyone was wondering....

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    In case anyone has wondering....

    Thank you for the blown-up picture. Based on it, the coin looks as if it very well might have turned in the holder. That said, I’d still want to see it in hand before declaring that to have been the case.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think it turned. I see coins with fingerprints that straight grade all the time. The coin probably has minimal contact marks and the graders probably considered the "tarnish" to be original.
    Just my opinion.
    Take it with a grain of salt.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
    Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2024 10:12AM

    @JBK Although I can't be 100% sure, it certainly looks like it turned, in the holder, to me.

    I base this opinion upon known examples that I've seen in the past.

    Regardless, it is one fugly coin.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2024 10:31AM

    In this case, MS stands for "much sludge". :#

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s impossible to tell if it turned in the holder but at any rate if it did, it turned kinda ugly.
    Just my opinion.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks to all for their input.

    Yes, we all agree that this is one ugly coin but the MS65 holder will certainly help sell it to someone. Not me or anyone here.

    The time period in the holder is certainly long enough for a coin to turn but I still wonder if PCGS would currently holder this coin looking like this or if it has changed since certification. It Looks like it could be ugly natural toning but my instincts say bad rinse. Yes, it would better to see the coin in person, as always.

    No doubt red copper can change, perhaps more than any other metal, after certification. Lots of RB-looking copper in RD holders out there.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • Slade01Slade01 Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2024 8:59AM

    Never heard of Invaluable.com, is that where coins like this go to hide?

    edit: I must say that I have never seen anything close to this on Heritage, GC, or Stacks. ;) edited further for clarity with .com

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To fugly for me

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2024 6:17AM

    @Slade01 said:
    Never heard of Invaluable, is that where coins like this go to hide?

    edit: I must say that I have never seen anything close to this on Heritage, GC, or Stacks. ;)

    Yeah, but I've never seen Heritage, GC, or Stack's refuse to sell a PCGS MS65 certified Morgan due to it being ugly for the grade. We all agree. It's ugly. And that was the point of the post but some still haven't picked up on that.

    Yeah, don't bother with Invaluable. It's all junk. ;)

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wouldn’t be the first ugly coin graded

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @krueger said:
    The morgan in the holder shown looks like it was dipped at one time and not properly rinsed . The dip remaining on the coin turns the silver black spotchy. I have seen this many time and on coins I have dipped. It will have to be redipped and a good rinse. Each dip dulls the surfaces.
    I have also seen Registry coins labeled "RED" and they are now brown in the holders. They were either not nuetralize
    Or were in a stored environment where they were exposed to air /out gasses that turned them brown in the holder.
    TPG Slabs are not hermetically sealed. Red coppers are hard to keep that way even in those boxes lined with black
    Carbon paper (?) To react with the gasses to protect the coins. I've not had super results with These boxes.
    The card board outer box still has sulfur in it. I don't like paying a premium for Red coppers as the surface s are more volatile and less stable then a RB or BN one.

    When I was dealer, I bought a couple of large cents from the 1850s that were called “Red” which changed in a few months. I took my hits, and learned my lesson. I won’t buy old red copper. Brown looks great to me.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Slade01 said:
    Never heard of Invaluable, is that where coins like this go to hide?

    edit: I must say that I have never seen anything close to this on Heritage, GC, or Stacks. ;)

    Not at all - “invaluable” would apply to coins that are essentially the opposite looking of the one posted.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Slade01Slade01 Posts: 294 ✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Slade01 said:
    Never heard of Invaluable, is that where coins like this go to hide?

    edit: I must say that I have never seen anything close to this on Heritage, GC, or Stacks. ;)

    Not at all - “invaluable” would apply to coins that are essentially the opposite looking of the one posted.

    No, sorry, should have capitalized Invaluable it is a web auction site that just seems a bit sketchy to me.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Slade01 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Slade01 said:
    Never heard of Invaluable, is that where coins like this go to hide?

    edit: I must say that I have never seen anything close to this on Heritage, GC, or Stacks. ;)

    Not at all - “invaluable” would apply to coins that are essentially the opposite looking of the one posted.

    No, sorry, should have capitalized Invaluable it is a web auction site that just seems a bit sketchy to me.

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Slade01Slade01 Posts: 294 ✭✭✭

    I don't think that any real auction houses need worry, despite their claim to be the world's premiere auction house -- they make most EBay auctions look reputable. ;)

  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That coin looks like it has something communicable :s

    On a more serious note, luckily, this date comes readily available in higher grades with better color, luster, and eye appeal…

    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2024 7:08AM

    Reminds me of Dr Nick from The Simpsons.

    Maybe "Invaluable" really means "Valuable" ;)

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.

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