@ctf_error_coins said:
As mentioned before, besides needing a very talented photographer, that photographer should also be a top notch numismatist who understands the characteristics of a coin.
That is a very rare combination of 2 separate talents, leaving only a handful of truly prospective professionals.
PCGS wants that person to be paid less than someone who flips burgers. What a total insult.
Director of Talent, basically the front face of branding, should be one of the highest paid positions at PCGS.
PCGS, what is your brands worth? Why are you destroying your brand???
in all fairness, it's the shift managers at In-n-Out who get paid more than the senior photography position, you have to earnestly flip burgers for like six months before you can be a manager so only the best children make it
Lots of bashing on PCGS in this thread.
I know some is tongue-in-cheek but others are borderline brutal.
Let's see how this all plays out before further condemnation.
And is it ever possible to have a PCGS thread without bashing California?
(There is a reason why it is pricey here- many people are happy to live here.)
@braddick said:
Lots of bashing on PCGS in this thread.
I know some is tongue-in-cheek but others are borderline brutal.
Let's see how this all plays out before further condemnation.
And is it ever possible to have a PCGS thread without bashing California?
(There is a reason why it is pricey here- many people are happy to live here.)
/rant
Not bashing at all, speaking truth. I am trying to help PCGS understand the need to pay for the best talent.
California is the best place on earth by far.
Got to pay to play.
My error was posting after yours as my intent wasn't to include your constructive criticism.
I applied for a photo assistant job a couple years ago for them. Basically a work from home job helping edit and upload the pictures. It’s when they were really behind with the true views and really could have used the help. They were stubborn and didn’t want to hire anyone from another state though. Probably could have saved themselves a little with taxes/income though.
My thought is that they are offering an entry-ish level job, based on the salary range and job description (regardless of the “supervisor” designation). No college degree or advanced certification is required. If they do not find someone to fill the job at the current salary, they will either increase the salary range or regroup, in some other way. I do not see that this warrants the degree of criticism and negativity that I am reading here.
For the right person, this could be a wonderful opportunity. Most of us do not have the skill set for the job, do not live near the HQ, and/or have better things to do with our time (including our current employment positions). The same can be said about 99.99% of all other job opportunities out there.
I suppose I should chime in here, since I fit pretty well into PCGS's target demographic here (young, not permanently employed, and able to move). For this, I'll assume I'll have graduated college.
The offer is not attractive, for several reasons stated above.
@FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
@ctf_error_coins said:
As mentioned before, besides needing a very talented photographer, that photographer should also be a top notch numismatist who understands the characteristics of a coin.
That is a very rare combination of 2 separate talents, leaving only a handful of truly prospective professionals.
PCGS wants that person to be paid less than someone who flips burgers. What a total insult.
Director of Talent, basically the front face of branding, should be one of the highest paid positions at PCGS.
PCGS, what is your brand worth? Why are you destroying your brand???
What's insulting is that the burger flipper gets paid more than a college professor...
@RYK said:
My thought is that they are offering an entry-ish level job, based on the salary range and job description (regardless of the “supervisor” designation). No college degree or advanced certification is required. If they do not find someone to fill the job at the current salary, they will either increase the salary range or regroup, in some other way. I do not see that this warrants the degree of criticism and negativity that I am reading here.
For the right person, this could be a wonderful opportunity. Most of us do not have the skill set for the job, do not live near the HQ, and/or have better things to do with our time (including our current employment positions). The same can be said about 99.99% of all other job opportunities out there.
I agree. I kind of think PCGS would know what the labor market is in their region. And I remain a little shocked that people think an 80k or 90k starting salary is insulting. Median income in the country is $60k for EVERYONE.
@ctf_error_coins said:
As mentioned before, besides needing a very talented photographer, that photographer should also be a top notch numismatist who understands the characteristics of a coin.
That is a very rare combination of 2 separate talents, leaving only a handful of truly prospective professionals.
PCGS wants that person to be paid less than someone who flips burgers. What a total insult.
Director of Talent, basically the front face of branding, should be one of the highest paid positions at PCGS.
PCGS, what is your brand worth? Why are you destroying your brand???
What's insulting is that the burger flipper gets paid more than a college professor...
The Buccees sign is more and more enticing every time I see it.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
@RLSnapper said: @FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
Sorry, I still have college ahead so I have no interest in going to work for PCGS.
Ironically, the offers I received from a lot of colleges, and especially the one I chose, were much more reasonable than the one in the job offer.
@RLSnapper said: @FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
Sorry, I still have college ahead so I have no interest in going to work for PCGS.
Ironically, the offers I received from a lot of colleges, and especially the one I chose, were much more reasonable than the one in the job offer.
Alex, which collage did you choose, or is that a secret
It sounds like you have never been there. You would be very surprised at the cost of living in that state.
No, I've been there. When I was in San Fran, I actually asked a few waiters and waitresses how they could afford to live. They all said they had one hour or more commutes to work. They didn't say that they were paid $100k because of the cost of living.
@FlyingAl said:
I suppose I should chime in here, since I fit pretty well into PCGS's target demographic here (young, not permanently employed, and able to move). For this, I'll assume I'll have graduated college.
The offer is not attractive, for several reasons stated above.
Welcome to the real world. My first job out of college and med school was to be a resident, for about $65,000 per year, inflation adjusted and consistent with current PGY-1 salaries. So the PCGS “photography supervisor” position pays more than someone who went to four years of college and four years of med school. And gets to work for a successful and growing company with opportunities for advancement and/or the possibility of gaining experience for the next job. It seems like a pretty decent opportunity for someone with photography talent and an interest in numismatics.
When you are starting out in life, unless you are the scion of a family business, you start at the bottom and work your way up.
@RLSnapper said: @FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
Sorry, I still have college ahead so I have no interest in going to work for PCGS.
Ironically, the offers I received from a lot of colleges, and especially the one I chose, were much more reasonable than the one in the job offer.
Alex, which collage did you choose, or is that a secret
I accepted an offer to go to the United States Air Force Academy.
@RLSnapper said: @FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
Sorry, I still have college ahead so I have no interest in going to work for PCGS.
Ironically, the offers I received from a lot of colleges, and especially the one I chose, were much more reasonable than the one in the job offer.
Alex, which collage did you choose, or is that a secret
I accepted an offer to go to the United States Air Force Academy.
the job doesn't need entry level
the job doesn't need 3-5 years experience
phil was likely lured away for more money
the numbers offered need to be higher because this is really a job for a true expert with many years experience
as far as pay comparable to someone who's in the life saving department, all I can say is you're under-paid
@RLSnapper said: @FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
Sorry, I still have college ahead so I have no interest in going to work for PCGS.
Ironically, the offers I received from a lot of colleges, and especially the one I chose, were much more reasonable than the one in the job offer.
Alex, which collage did you choose, or is that a secret
I accepted an offer to go to the United States Air Force Academy.
@FlyingAl said:
I suppose I should chime in here, since I fit pretty well into PCGS's target demographic here (young, not permanently employed, and able to move). For this, I'll assume I'll have graduated college.
The offer is not attractive, for several reasons stated above.
Welcome to the real world. My first job out of college and med school was to be a resident, for about $65,000 per year, inflation adjusted and consistent with current PGY-1 salaries. So the PCGS “photography supervisor” position pays more than someone who went to four years of college and four years of med school. And gets to work for a successful and growing company with opportunities for advancement and/or the possibility of gaining experience for the next job. It seems like a pretty decent opportunity for someone with photography talent and an interest in numismatics.
When you are starting out in life, unless you are the scion of a family business, you start at the bottom and work your way up.
While this is very true and I completely understand, of all of the places to start I'd likely choose California as the last place to do it, simply do to the high cost of living. It simply makes everything a lot more challenging.
I find it really weird how many people here are pooh-poohing a ~$65-$95k salary. Where the heck do you guys work??
If you think smart, capable people cannot be attracted making almost 6 figures out of the gate for only 2-5 years of experience taking photos, you've been breathing too much coin dip.
It sounds like you have never been there. You would be very surprised at the cost of living in that state.
No, I've been there. When I was in San Fran, I actually asked a few waiters and waitresses how they could afford to live. They all said they had one hour or more commutes to work. They didn't say that they were paid $100k because of the cost of living.
Per Ziprecruiter:
There are 33 million people living in CA. The average salary in the chart is skewed as most of them live in rural areas. It's in the cities that prices soar and incomes soar. I'm sure I could live comfortably in CA in some of the wonderful rural areas for under $30,000 a year. I won't try it but I bet it would be doable.
The most expensive living is in PCGS's area of the state. Only perhaps would silicon valley be more.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
I think it’s a great job opportunity for some lucky individual. Granted he will prolly have to live in his-her parent’s basement, but I’m sure they could make it work. Good luck to the fortunate applicant.
For a photographer, this salary seems OK. For a director of photography services, in California, I'd think that would be a $120-150k/yr position, minimum.
My first job out of law school was as a law clerk (while waiting to take and pass the California Bar Exam) at a firm located in Orange County, Cal. in the fall of 1981.
My pay as a newly hired law clerk was $7.50 per hour. I was "in the money" (having worked during law school for about $3.00 per hour).
I worked as many hours as I could as a law clerk (50 hours a week @ $7.50 per hour was about $1,500 per month or $18,000 per year). When I passed the Bar Exam and got hired as an Associate Attorney, first year out of law school, I got a raise to $22,000.00 per year.
$7.25 per hour
The minimum wage in Utah is consistent across the state, including in Salt Lake County, Utah County, Weber County, Washington County, Salt Lake City, Provo, West Valley City, West Jordan, and Orem. In all these locations, the minimum wage is set at $7.25 per hour, which aligns with the Federal Minimum Wage rate.
Don’t confuse In-N-Out with Five Guys, where the burger, fries and a drink for “you and the Misses” will set you back $50.00 or more! But, they are delicious and you will never see a freezer in their building!
But, seriously, PCGS is offering to pay MORE than Disney (up the street) for its photographers. That makes it very hard to argue that PCGS is not paying enough for its talent.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@FlyingAl said:
I suppose I should chime in here, since I fit pretty well into PCGS's target demographic here (young, not permanently employed, and able to move). For this, I'll assume I'll have graduated college.
The offer is not attractive, for several reasons stated above.
Welcome to the real world. My first job out of college and med school was to be a resident, for about $65,000 per year, inflation adjusted and consistent with current PGY-1 salaries. So the PCGS “photography supervisor” position pays more than someone who went to four years of college and four years of med school. And gets to work for a successful and growing company with opportunities for advancement and/or the possibility of gaining experience for the next job. It seems like a pretty decent opportunity for someone with photography talent and an interest in numismatics.
When you are starting out in life, unless you are the scion of a family business, you start at the bottom and work your way up.
While this is very true and I completely understand, of all of the places to start I'd likely choose California as the last place to do it, simply do to the high cost of living. It simply makes everything a lot more challenging.
@wondercoin said:
‘’Burgers must cost $50 in CA.’’
Don’t confuse In-N-Out with Five Guys, where the burger, fries and a drink for “you and the Misses” will set you back $50.00 or more! But, they are delicious and you will never see a freezer in their building!
But, seriously, PCGS is offering to pay MORE than Disney (up the street) for its photographers. That makes it very hard to argue that PCGS is not paying enough for its talent.
Wondercoin
Yes, you would expect that a successful business would know its market.
@SanctionII said:
My first job out of law school was as a law clerk (while waiting to take and pass the California Bar Exam) at a firm located in Orange County, Cal. in the fall of 1981.
My pay as a newly hired law clerk was $7.50 per hour. I was "in the money" (having worked during law school for about $3.00 per hour).
I worked as many hours as I could as a law clerk (50 hours a week @ $7.50 per hour was about $1,500 per month or $18,000 per year). When I passed the Bar Exam and got hired as an Associate Attorney, first year out of law school, I got a raise to $22,000.00 per year.
That was a long, long time ago.
Rolling forward in time, we still hire lecturers (WITH PHDs) for $45,000 starting salaries.
@SanctionII said:
My first job out of law school was as a law clerk (while waiting to take and pass the California Bar Exam) at a firm located in Orange County, Cal. in the fall of 1981.
My pay as a newly hired law clerk was $7.50 per hour. I was "in the money" (having worked during law school for about $3.00 per hour).
I worked as many hours as I could as a law clerk (50 hours a week @ $7.50 per hour was about $1,500 per month or $18,000 per year). When I passed the Bar Exam and got hired as an Associate Attorney, first year out of law school, I got a raise to $22,000.00 per year.
That was a long, long time ago.
Rolling forward in time, we still hire lecturers (WITH PHDs) for $45,000 starting salaries.
Which school?
DPOTD-3 'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
@air4mdc said:
I think it’s a great job opportunity for some lucky individual. Granted he will prolly have to live in his-her parent’s basement, but I’m sure they could make it work. Good luck to the fortunate applicant.
Young people sometimes have roommates when they are getting started. Or they live in small quarters. They do not generally live in Beverly Hills or Malibu right out of the gate.
After graduating college, with the equivalent of 2-3 years of job experience, my son took a job in Washington, DC, for about $65,000 per year. He did not want to live with roommates, like most of his friends in DC or NYC. He found a 330 sq foot apartment for $1900 per month. He also picked up a side job, to make it all work. Within a couple years, his hard work paid off, and his salary is (barely) north of $100,000. He picked up a different side job. He is saving money. He is in no danger of buying a townhouse in Georgetown, but he is doing okay.
This is how you start a career in the USA. You have to work your way up.
@SanctionII said:
My first job out of law school was as a law clerk (while waiting to take and pass the California Bar Exam) at a firm located in Orange County, Cal. in the fall of 1981.
My pay as a newly hired law clerk was $7.50 per hour. I was "in the money" (having worked during law school for about $3.00 per hour).
I worked as many hours as I could as a law clerk (50 hours a week @ $7.50 per hour was about $1,500 per month or $18,000 per year). When I passed the Bar Exam and got hired as an Associate Attorney, first year out of law school, I got a raise to $22,000.00 per year.
That was a long, long time ago.
Rolling forward in time, we still hire lecturers (WITH PHDs) for $45,000 starting salaries.
If I were a skilled photographer I'd view this as a fantastic opportunity. You get paid handsomely in experience and if you get your foot in the door there and knock it out of the park in no time at all you can probably name your price for them to keep you on. The target market for them is probably someone in their early 20s passionate about coins and photography that can grow with the company. Sounds like an amazing opportunity for someone who is in fact passionate about coins and photography and if that individual is insulted at the initial pay I'd tell them good luck finding a better opportunity anytime soon.
I imagine there will be a line out the door with qualified applicants hoping to land this gig with the insulting pay.
@PhilLynott said:
If I were a skilled photographer I'd view this as a fantastic opportunity. You get paid handsomely in experience and if you get your foot in the door there and knock it out of the park in no time at all you can probably name your price for them to keep you on. The target market for them is probably someone in their early 20s passionate about coins and photography that can grow with the company. Sounds like an amazing opportunity for someone who is in fact passionate about coins and photography and if that individual is insulted at the initial pay I'd tell them good luck finding a better opportunity anytime soon.
I imagine there will be a line out the door with qualified applicants hoping to land this gig with the insulting pay.
but doesn't the photographer have to be really good from day 1 because if they're doing it for experience, wouldn't we all have to endure another x months before we see an unknown improvement? I don't want to wait to see if someone will knock it out of the park. they ought to hire someone who's knocking it out of the park now. at best, this job post is a hint not to expect any big changes soon. I interpret this as submit now if you absolutely have to, but otherwise sit on the sidelines and wait or go ATS
@PhilLynott said:
If I were a skilled photographer I'd view this as a fantastic opportunity. You get paid handsomely in experience and if you get your foot in the door there and knock it out of the park in no time at all you can probably name your price for them to keep you on. The target market for them is probably someone in their early 20s passionate about coins and photography that can grow with the company. Sounds like an amazing opportunity for someone who is in fact passionate about coins and photography and if that individual is insulted at the initial pay I'd tell them good luck finding a better opportunity anytime soon.
I imagine there will be a line out the door with qualified applicants hoping to land this gig with the insulting pay.
but doesn't the photographer have to be really good from day 1 because if they're doing it for experience, wouldn't we all have to endure another x months before we see an unknown improvement? I don't want to wait to see if someone will knock it out of the park. they ought to hire someone who's knocking it out of the park now. at best, this job post is a hint not to expect any big changes soon. I interpret this as submit now if you absolutely have to, but otherwise sit on the sidelines and wait or go ATS
Yeah of course they'll have to be very good from day 1 but my point is there are a LOT of very good coin photographers out there (this forum showcases many) and there are not unlimited opportunities in the industry for them out there. So I think even a rock star who may think they're worth more should consider taking this and prove they are worth more and make it so PCGS does what they have to to keep them on long term and not lose another Phil.
Some of the comments I am reading suggest one or more of the following about some of the respondents:
1. They have never run a business.
2. They have never been in a position to hire and develop people.
3. They are not currently in the workplace.
@ctf_error_coins said:
Many here think that the PGCS cheapskate offer is fair.
The people with talent know it is a total insult.
Comparing this ONE job to all the other jobs is ridiculous.
Only a small handful of people could even do this job, but those qualified laugh at insulting pay and PCGS will never get top talent.
Okay cool then they can take the similar opportunity out there for the $300k they're worth, problem solved it will sort itself out and PCGS will be left wanting.
Again, if you think $65k-$95k is a lot in Orange County, go visit and stay for a week.
I've spent considerable amounts of time there, and I even considered moving there, so I'm quite well versed with the costs of living out there. Everything is expensive.
Let's make a mock budget!
Let's say $80k salary, the middle of the target range.
On $80k, you pay ~$20k in income tax in CA as a single taxpayer. Let's say you tuck away $177/mo for retirement... Just above 5% a year. A pittance, honestly. That reduces your income taxes to ~$19,360/yr. See screenshot below.
That leaves us with ~$58.5k take home, or $4,875 a month.
Here is a 1 bedroom apartment in North Irvine (~20 minute commute) for $2,425 a month. Pretty solid deal, honestly. Gotta think this isn't a great apartment complex or something.
Let's say water and sanitation are built into your rent and you don't cover those. You don't need life insurance, you're hypothetically single with no kids. You have a halfway decent and reliable car, because its California. You need one. Your necessities budget looks something like this;
And let's say your wants budget is like this;
To add color to this, a nice pair of jeans is $50+ these days. TShirts 15-20 bucks. A hoodie (for those cool SoCal mornings) is $40+. A single dinner out is $50. Takeout is $15+. A beer at a bar is $7 plus tip. A single day at Universal or Disney (The travel portion of the budget) is $105 plus parking/food/drinks. You can do that maybe 2-3 times a year at most.
That's $4,725 a month leaving you with about $150 as "life happens" money to throw into savings.
I don't know if you all here are all familiar with the 50/30/20 concept, but it basically says you should spend 50% of your income on necessities, 30% on things you want, and 20% towards savings and retirement. That's the modern idea of a comfortable, healthy budget and lifestyle.
Under this proposed budget, you're spending $4,295 on needs as opposed to a suggested budget of $2,437.50. You're spending $430 on wants as opposed to a suggested budget of $1,462.50. And lastly, you're spending $327 on savings as opposed to a suggested budget of $975.
How is anybody supposed to get ahead and feel comfortable with their career and life on a budget like that?
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@ctf_error_coins said:
Many here think that the PGCS cheapskate offer is fair.
The people with talent know it is a total insult.
Comparing this ONE job to all the other jobs is ridiculous.
Only a small handful of people could even do this job, but those qualified laugh at insulting pay and PCGS will never get top talent.
Okay cool then they can take the similar opportunity out there for the $300k they're worth, problem solved it will sort itself out and PCGS will be left wanting.
Nobody is saying a photographer is worth a $300k salary. But I certainly think they'd need to pay ~$110k to replace Phil with a pretty good photographer... And I think they'd find one if they were willing to pay that. An extra $2k/mo on the budget I tossed up there goes a long way to balancing it out.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I strongly suspect that PCGS will see who applies and pay a market rate to attract the right person. This is a posting - it doesn’t necessarily mean much. Potential explanations:
They have someone in mind and this posting is just to fill HR requirements that position be posted before they fill it
They posted it to gauge interest and will hire either a supervisor or entry level person depending on who applies and pay accordingly
They are just collecting resumes for future potential reference
If you have strong interest and a relevant skillset, you should apply. If there is mutual interest after speaking with them, then negotiate your salary to what you are worth. If they can’t meet that, find another opportunity.
@DelawareDoons said:
Again, if you think $65k-$95k is a lot in Orange County, go visit and stay for a week.
I've spent considerable amounts of time there, and I even considered moving there, so I'm quite well versed with the costs of living out there. Everything is expensive.
Let's make a mock budget!
Let's say $80k salary, the middle of the target range.
On $80k, you pay ~$20k in income tax in CA as a single taxpayer. Let's say you tuck away $177/mo for retirement... Just above 5% a year. A pittance, honestly. That reduces your income taxes to ~$19,360/yr. See screenshot below.
That leaves us with ~$58.5k take home, or $4,875 a month.
Here is a 1 bedroom apartment in North Irvine (~20 minute commute) for $2,425 a month. Pretty solid deal, honestly. Gotta think this isn't a great apartment complex or something.
Let's say water and sanitation are built into your rent and you don't cover those. You don't need life insurance, you're hypothetically single with no kids. You have a halfway decent and reliable car, because its California. You need one. Your necessities budget looks something like this;
And let's say your wants budget is like this;
To add color to this, a nice pair of jeans is $50+ these days. TShirts 15-20 bucks. A hoodie (for those cool SoCal mornings) is $40+. A single dinner out is $50. Takeout is $15+. A beer at a bar is $7 plus tip. A single day at Universal or Disney (The travel portion of the budget) is $105 plus parking/food/drinks. You can do that maybe 2-3 times a year at most.
That's $4,725 a month leaving you with about $150 as "life happens" money to throw into savings.
I don't know if you all here are all familiar with the 50/30/20 concept, but it basically says you should spend 50% of your income on necessities, 30% on things you want, and 20% towards savings and retirement. That's the modern idea of a comfortable, healthy budget and lifestyle.
Under this proposed budget, you're spending $4,295 on needs as opposed to a suggested budget of $2,437.50. You're spending $430 on wants as opposed to a suggested budget of $1,462.50. And lastly, you're spending $327 on savings as opposed to a suggested budget of $975.
How is anybody supposed to get ahead and feel comfortable with their career and life on a budget like that?
Orange County California is one of the most expensive places to live in the country. California has the most expensive gas and electricity in the country and I believe next to NY and maybe NJ we have the highest state income tax. Traffic is a disaster and homelessness in Southern California is out of control. If it wasn’t for the weather and the close proximity to the beach, mountains, and desert few people would live here with the way things are now.
Orange County California is one of the most expensive places to live in the country. California has the most expensive gas and electricity in the country and I believe next to NY and maybe NJ we have the highest state income tax. Traffic is a disaster and homelessness in Southern California is out of control. If it wasn’t for the weather and the close proximity to the beach, mountains, and desert few people would live here with the way things are now.
Sounds like a Fox News commentary.
California is the best, that's why it is expensive.
I have lived in California my whole life. I don't even remember the last time I was in a "traffic Jam". Not an issue in 99% of the State. The homeless are here because of the fantastic weather where they will not die on the streets from freezing to dearth. Californians have empathy and care for each other.
@ctf_error_coins said:
Many here think that the PGCS cheapskate offer is fair.
The people with talent know it is a total insult.
Comparing this ONE job to all the other jobs is ridiculous.
Only a small handful of people could even do this job, but those qualified laugh at insulting pay and PCGS will never get top talent.
Okay cool then they can take the similar opportunity out there for the $300k they're worth, problem solved it will sort itself out and PCGS will be left wanting.
Nobody is saying a photographer is worth a $300k salary. But I certainly think they'd need to pay ~$110k to replace Phil with a pretty good photographer... And I think they'd find one if they were willing to pay that. An extra $2k/mo on the budget I tossed up there goes a long way to balancing it out.
I could have used any number my point is if there are opportunities out there for a similar role at a much higher rate then it will work itself out and PCGS won't get the talent they want/need. I suspect there aren't those opportunities this good out there and PCGS will fill the role with a super talented photographer and take care of them long term. The jump from 65k-95k up to the 110k you're suggesting is tiny for a business the size of PCGS if they have the right person. It's not uncommon for a business to hire someone, find out they're amazing and go oh boy we better do whatever we can to not lose this person. Source: myself with a new hire I found in December.
The one taking this job isn't locking themselves into a lifetime contract at 65k-95k they're getting their feet in the door with a chance to start an amazing career they're passionate about. I just don't think it's anything to be insulted about and for those that are insulted I guarantee there's multiples more lining up for the opportunity.
Comments
I notice I'm starting to talk more to Ai stuff and can't reach a person. It like that's going to the wayside like the payphone,jmo
in all fairness, it's the shift managers at In-n-Out who get paid more than the senior photography position, you have to earnestly flip burgers for like six months before you can be a manager so only the best children make it
Lots of bashing on PCGS in this thread.
I know some is tongue-in-cheek but others are borderline brutal.
Let's see how this all plays out before further condemnation.
And is it ever possible to have a PCGS thread without bashing California?
(There is a reason why it is pricey here- many people are happy to live here.)
/rant
peacockcoins
I can tell you're seriously thinking about the job
My error was posting after yours as my intent wasn't to include your constructive criticism.
peacockcoins
I applied for a photo assistant job a couple years ago for them. Basically a work from home job helping edit and upload the pictures. It’s when they were really behind with the true views and really could have used the help. They were stubborn and didn’t want to hire anyone from another state though. Probably could have saved themselves a little with taxes/income though.
My thought is that they are offering an entry-ish level job, based on the salary range and job description (regardless of the “supervisor” designation). No college degree or advanced certification is required. If they do not find someone to fill the job at the current salary, they will either increase the salary range or regroup, in some other way. I do not see that this warrants the degree of criticism and negativity that I am reading here.
For the right person, this could be a wonderful opportunity. Most of us do not have the skill set for the job, do not live near the HQ, and/or have better things to do with our time (including our current employment positions). The same can be said about 99.99% of all other job opportunities out there.
I suppose I should chime in here, since I fit pretty well into PCGS's target demographic here (young, not permanently employed, and able to move). For this, I'll assume I'll have graduated college.
The offer is not attractive, for several reasons stated above.
Coin Photographer.
Raise the cost of imaging $2... I would still gladly pay it not to have to break out my gear.
Put me on the sidelines of a Rams or Laker game and I can compete.
20 years in the (photo) hobby, and nobody oohs and ahhs over my coin images... lol
Branding, Branding, Branding.... look at traffic the GTG and TV threads receive.
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@FlyingAl I have seen your work and it is the quality PCGS needs. My guess is you could approach PCGS with your ideas as to what needs to be done in their photo department. Then name your price for your services. Your work speaks for itself and PCGS would be foolish not to hire you.
What's the worst PCGS can do is say no thanks!
What's insulting is that the burger flipper gets paid more than a college professor...
I agree. I kind of think PCGS would know what the labor market is in their region. And I remain a little shocked that people think an 80k or 90k starting salary is insulting. Median income in the country is $60k for EVERYONE.
Burgers must cost $50 in CA.
Null
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
The Buccees sign is more and more enticing every time I see it.
145k/year to manage their car wash? 🦫🤑
BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.
It sounds like you have never been there. You would be very surprised at the cost of living in that state.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
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$65k - $95k doesn't get you much in CA.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Sorry, I still have college ahead so I have no interest in going to work for PCGS.
Ironically, the offers I received from a lot of colleges, and especially the one I chose, were much more reasonable than the one in the job offer.
Coin Photographer.
Alex, which collage did you choose, or is that a secret
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
No, I've been there. When I was in San Fran, I actually asked a few waiters and waitresses how they could afford to live. They all said they had one hour or more commutes to work. They didn't say that they were paid $100k because of the cost of living.
Per Ziprecruiter:
Welcome to the real world. My first job out of college and med school was to be a resident, for about $65,000 per year, inflation adjusted and consistent with current PGY-1 salaries. So the PCGS “photography supervisor” position pays more than someone who went to four years of college and four years of med school. And gets to work for a successful and growing company with opportunities for advancement and/or the possibility of gaining experience for the next job. It seems like a pretty decent opportunity for someone with photography talent and an interest in numismatics.
When you are starting out in life, unless you are the scion of a family business, you start at the bottom and work your way up.
I accepted an offer to go to the United States Air Force Academy.
Coin Photographer.
Congratulations. Much respect your way.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
the job doesn't need entry level
the job doesn't need 3-5 years experience
phil was likely lured away for more money
the numbers offered need to be higher because this is really a job for a true expert with many years experience
as far as pay comparable to someone who's in the life saving department, all I can say is you're under-paid
Congratulations
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
While this is very true and I completely understand, of all of the places to start I'd likely choose California as the last place to do it, simply do to the high cost of living. It simply makes everything a lot more challenging.
@TomB @alaura22 - thank you very much.
Coin Photographer.
I find it really weird how many people here are pooh-poohing a ~$65-$95k salary. Where the heck do you guys work??
If you think smart, capable people cannot be attracted making almost 6 figures out of the gate for only 2-5 years of experience taking photos, you've been breathing too much coin dip.
There are 33 million people living in CA. The average salary in the chart is skewed as most of them live in rural areas. It's in the cities that prices soar and incomes soar. I'm sure I could live comfortably in CA in some of the wonderful rural areas for under $30,000 a year. I won't try it but I bet it would be doable.
The most expensive living is in PCGS's area of the state. Only perhaps would silicon valley be more.
bob
I think it’s a great job opportunity for some lucky individual. Granted he will prolly have to live in his-her parent’s basement, but I’m sure they could make it work. Good luck to the fortunate applicant.
For a photographer, this salary seems OK. For a director of photography services, in California, I'd think that would be a $120-150k/yr position, minimum.
My first job out of law school was as a law clerk (while waiting to take and pass the California Bar Exam) at a firm located in Orange County, Cal. in the fall of 1981.
My pay as a newly hired law clerk was $7.50 per hour. I was "in the money" (having worked during law school for about $3.00 per hour).
I worked as many hours as I could as a law clerk (50 hours a week @ $7.50 per hour was about $1,500 per month or $18,000 per year). When I passed the Bar Exam and got hired as an Associate Attorney, first year out of law school, I got a raise to $22,000.00 per year.
That was a long, long time ago.
$7.25 per hour
The minimum wage in Utah is consistent across the state, including in Salt Lake County, Utah County, Weber County, Washington County, Salt Lake City, Provo, West Valley City, West Jordan, and Orem. In all these locations, the minimum wage is set at $7.25 per hour, which aligns with the Federal Minimum Wage rate.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
‘’Burgers must cost $50 in CA.’’
Don’t confuse In-N-Out with Five Guys, where the burger, fries and a drink for “you and the Misses” will set you back $50.00 or more! But, they are delicious and you will never see a freezer in their building!
But, seriously, PCGS is offering to pay MORE than Disney (up the street) for its photographers. That makes it very hard to argue that PCGS is not paying enough for its talent.
Wondercoin
Congratulations!
Yes, you would expect that a successful business would know its market.
Rolling forward in time, we still hire lecturers (WITH PHDs) for $45,000 starting salaries.
Which school?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Young people sometimes have roommates when they are getting started. Or they live in small quarters. They do not generally live in Beverly Hills or Malibu right out of the gate.
After graduating college, with the equivalent of 2-3 years of job experience, my son took a job in Washington, DC, for about $65,000 per year. He did not want to live with roommates, like most of his friends in DC or NYC. He found a 330 sq foot apartment for $1900 per month. He also picked up a side job, to make it all work. Within a couple years, his hard work paid off, and his salary is (barely) north of $100,000. He picked up a different side job. He is saving money. He is in no danger of buying a townhouse in Georgetown, but he is doing okay.
This is how you start a career in the USA. You have to work your way up.
Rochester Institute of Technology
The harder you are to replace, the more you get paid.
If I were a skilled photographer I'd view this as a fantastic opportunity. You get paid handsomely in experience and if you get your foot in the door there and knock it out of the park in no time at all you can probably name your price for them to keep you on. The target market for them is probably someone in their early 20s passionate about coins and photography that can grow with the company. Sounds like an amazing opportunity for someone who is in fact passionate about coins and photography and if that individual is insulted at the initial pay I'd tell them good luck finding a better opportunity anytime soon.
I imagine there will be a line out the door with qualified applicants hoping to land this gig with the insulting pay.
but doesn't the photographer have to be really good from day 1 because if they're doing it for experience, wouldn't we all have to endure another x months before we see an unknown improvement? I don't want to wait to see if someone will knock it out of the park. they ought to hire someone who's knocking it out of the park now. at best, this job post is a hint not to expect any big changes soon. I interpret this as submit now if you absolutely have to, but otherwise sit on the sidelines and wait or go ATS
Yeah of course they'll have to be very good from day 1 but my point is there are a LOT of very good coin photographers out there (this forum showcases many) and there are not unlimited opportunities in the industry for them out there. So I think even a rock star who may think they're worth more should consider taking this and prove they are worth more and make it so PCGS does what they have to to keep them on long term and not lose another Phil.
Some of the comments I am reading suggest one or more of the following about some of the respondents:
1. They have never run a business.
2. They have never been in a position to hire and develop people.
3. They are not currently in the workplace.
Okay cool then they can take the similar opportunity out there for the $300k they're worth, problem solved it will sort itself out and PCGS will be left wanting.
Again, if you think $65k-$95k is a lot in Orange County, go visit and stay for a week.
I've spent considerable amounts of time there, and I even considered moving there, so I'm quite well versed with the costs of living out there. Everything is expensive.
Let's make a mock budget!
Let's say $80k salary, the middle of the target range.
On $80k, you pay ~$20k in income tax in CA as a single taxpayer. Let's say you tuck away $177/mo for retirement... Just above 5% a year. A pittance, honestly. That reduces your income taxes to ~$19,360/yr. See screenshot below.
That leaves us with ~$58.5k take home, or $4,875 a month.
Here is a 1 bedroom apartment in North Irvine (~20 minute commute) for $2,425 a month. Pretty solid deal, honestly. Gotta think this isn't a great apartment complex or something.
Let's say water and sanitation are built into your rent and you don't cover those. You don't need life insurance, you're hypothetically single with no kids. You have a halfway decent and reliable car, because its California. You need one. Your necessities budget looks something like this;
And let's say your wants budget is like this;
To add color to this, a nice pair of jeans is $50+ these days. TShirts 15-20 bucks. A hoodie (for those cool SoCal mornings) is $40+. A single dinner out is $50. Takeout is $15+. A beer at a bar is $7 plus tip. A single day at Universal or Disney (The travel portion of the budget) is $105 plus parking/food/drinks. You can do that maybe 2-3 times a year at most.
That's $4,725 a month leaving you with about $150 as "life happens" money to throw into savings.
I don't know if you all here are all familiar with the 50/30/20 concept, but it basically says you should spend 50% of your income on necessities, 30% on things you want, and 20% towards savings and retirement. That's the modern idea of a comfortable, healthy budget and lifestyle.
Under this proposed budget, you're spending $4,295 on needs as opposed to a suggested budget of $2,437.50. You're spending $430 on wants as opposed to a suggested budget of $1,462.50. And lastly, you're spending $327 on savings as opposed to a suggested budget of $975.
How is anybody supposed to get ahead and feel comfortable with their career and life on a budget like that?
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Nobody is saying a photographer is worth a $300k salary. But I certainly think they'd need to pay ~$110k to replace Phil with a pretty good photographer... And I think they'd find one if they were willing to pay that. An extra $2k/mo on the budget I tossed up there goes a long way to balancing it out.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I strongly suspect that PCGS will see who applies and pay a market rate to attract the right person. This is a posting - it doesn’t necessarily mean much. Potential explanations:
They have someone in mind and this posting is just to fill HR requirements that position be posted before they fill it
They posted it to gauge interest and will hire either a supervisor or entry level person depending on who applies and pay accordingly
They are just collecting resumes for future potential reference
If you have strong interest and a relevant skillset, you should apply. If there is mutual interest after speaking with them, then negotiate your salary to what you are worth. If they can’t meet that, find another opportunity.
Orange County California is one of the most expensive places to live in the country. California has the most expensive gas and electricity in the country and I believe next to NY and maybe NJ we have the highest state income tax. Traffic is a disaster and homelessness in Southern California is out of control. If it wasn’t for the weather and the close proximity to the beach, mountains, and desert few people would live here with the way things are now.
Sounds like a Fox News commentary.
California is the best, that's why it is expensive.
I have lived in California my whole life. I don't even remember the last time I was in a "traffic Jam". Not an issue in 99% of the State. The homeless are here because of the fantastic weather where they will not die on the streets from freezing to dearth. Californians have empathy and care for each other.
California is a paradise.
I could have used any number my point is if there are opportunities out there for a similar role at a much higher rate then it will work itself out and PCGS won't get the talent they want/need. I suspect there aren't those opportunities this good out there and PCGS will fill the role with a super talented photographer and take care of them long term. The jump from 65k-95k up to the 110k you're suggesting is tiny for a business the size of PCGS if they have the right person. It's not uncommon for a business to hire someone, find out they're amazing and go oh boy we better do whatever we can to not lose this person. Source: myself with a new hire I found in December.
The one taking this job isn't locking themselves into a lifetime contract at 65k-95k they're getting their feet in the door with a chance to start an amazing career they're passionate about. I just don't think it's anything to be insulted about and for those that are insulted I guarantee there's multiples more lining up for the opportunity.