@AlanSki said:
This is the point I stepped in and created this thread.
Not for nothing, but not one word in the texts you posted would be admissible in court. It's all hearsay.
Why didn't you just call Hunt? (Curiosity, not an accusation. )
This isn’t court. This was to show a timeline of events from my perspective from what I was told just so everyone has the information from my side. If the dealer ever decides to come in and refute anything, everything I know or was told is here.
@AlanSki seems like you have gotten some help from a few quality board members to help get this resolved.
But you keep stirring the pot. Let it rest and see what happens next week before you continue on your rant
I was just asked to post this by Alhambra while they wait to get their new PCGS Forum account approved by the PCGS moderator(s):
“If you had bothered to make one single phone call to me or bother to listen to your father rather than take over his assets, you would have known we spoke yesterday, and planned lunch for Tuesday or Wednesday (at his convenience) for me to return this disaster of a coin back. I have known him since 1985 and we have a nice business and social relationship, so we both were unaware you were so concerned about what you obviously think is yours….not his. Did you mention anywhere in your posts that over the past 12 months I have tried to fix a problem of a coin that I did not sell him, but naturally deteriorated in an old ANACS holder? I spoke to PCGS, (they told me not to touch it), tried to put it in old holder auctions with Stacks and Great Collections (couldn’t get a reserve) and brought it to numerous shows to wholesale it based on the old holder concept. No help. He bought it as a 65 but it’s now barely a 63 and after you get it and dip it it will be a cleaned unc. Though I do represent Alhambra Coin, I take full responsibility for my dealings with your father, as I’ve known him for 40 years. There was never any urgency communicated to me by your father that he needed the coin back. You denied to him on the phone this evening that you said anything critical, just wanted to point out it hadn’t been returned, you said, remember, I speak to him as well. Alhambra Coin Center has been in business since 1975, and certainly wouldn’t sully our reputation over something like this. Keep it up, you show who you really are.
David W. Hunt
PCGS member
NGC member
CAC member and Stockholder
Lifetime member ANA
Numerous other professional memberships
3 time Coin World “100 Most Influential Numismatist”
Coin World, “100 Most Influential Coin Company, 2023”
END QUOTE
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I was just asked to post this by Alhambra while they wait to get their new PCGS Forum account approved by the PCGS moderator(s):
“If you had bothered to make one single phone call to me or bother to listen to your father rather than take over his assets, you would have known we spoke yesterday, and planned lunch for Tuesday or Wednesday (at his convenience) for me to return this disaster of a coin back. I have known him since 1985 and we have a nice business and social relationship, so we both were unaware you were so concerned about what you obviously think is yours….not his. Did you mention anywhere in your posts that over the past 12 months I have tried to fix a problem of a coin that I did not sell him, but naturally deteriorated in an old ANACS holder? I spoke to PCGS, (they told me not to touch it), tried to put it in old holder auctions with Stacks and Great Collections (couldn’t get a reserve) and brought it to numerous shows to wholesale it based on the old holder concept. No help. He bought it as a 65 but it’s now barely a 63 and after you get it and dip it it will be a cleaned unc. Though I do represent Alhambra Coin, I take full responsibility for my dealings with your father, as I’ve known him for 40 years. There was never any urgency communicated to me by your father that he needed the coin back. You denied to him on the phone this evening that you said anything critical, just wanted to point out it hadn’t been returned, you said, remember, I speak to him as well. Alhambra Coin Center has been in business since 1975, and certainly wouldn’t sully our reputation over something like this. Keep it up, you show who you really are.
David W. Hunt
PCGS member
NGC member
CAC member and Stockholder
Lifetime member ANA
Numerous other professional memberships
3 time Coin World “100 Most Influential Numismatist”
Coin World, “100 Most Influential Coin Company, 2023”
END QUOTE
Wondercoin
Thanks, Mitch. Unfortunately, we may be about to demonstrate why there is no point in a reputable dealer responding to criticism on coin forums.
@AlanSki said:
No urgency yet they had it for over a year and he requested it back numerous times.
Gotcha. Typical dealer gibberish.
Show who I really am. A 100% disabled combat veteran sticking up for his aging father so he can get his property back.
Btw.. the comment about me not telling my father anything???
That text confirms exactly what Mr. Hunt said in his message.
I would suggest backing away from this. There is no disagreement on the facts of the case from either party. On the face of it, Mr. Hunt may well have been trying to help your father place the coin. Given that your father had lunch with him very recently, it also doesn't appear that your father was as upset with Mr. Hunt as you are. No good can come from continuing to try and make a case.
What Hunt isn’t saying is the “Invoice” supposedly says “Appraisal” on it. What dealer would need to take a coin for appraisal when they can pull out a loupe and a phone, check CDN bid/ask prices and do it right there. However, he even stated he knew my father wanted conservation even going as far to say PCGS told him not to dip it. Then it suddenly is going to get wholesaled, but never does? Something isn’t adding up. It doesn’t take over 12 months to figure that out.
If it were a multimillionaire with a $200k coin would he have been given the same 12 month treatment? Highly doubtful.
Since Hunt seems to think I want my father’s assets, I think it’s the other way around. I know you had a collector who wanted his high end commemoratives but I sold them for him and he received 100% of the money without paying commission.
If my memory is correct I remember buying 10 one ounce gold Kruggerands from Mr. Hunt in the early 2000s for something like $285 each which at that time was a huge $um for me.
My family thought I was crazy to spend so much money.
@AlanSki said:
What Hunt isn’t saying is the “Invoice” supposedly says “Appraisal” on it. What dealer would need to take a coin for appraisal when they can pull out a loupe and a phone, check CDN bid/ask prices and do it right there. However, he even stated he knew my father wanted conservation even going as far to say PCGS told him not to dip it. Then it suddenly is going to get wholesaled, but never does? Something isn’t adding up. It doesn’t take over 12 months to figure that out.
If it were a multimillionaire with a $200k coin would he have been given the same 12 month treatment? Highly doubtful.
Since Hunt seems to think I want my father’s assets, I think it’s the other way around. I know you had a collector who wanted his high end commemoratives but I sold them for him and he received 100% of the money without paying commission.
Actually, it does make sense. "Appraisal" might be a catch all. Different dealers use different phrases for coins they are not buying but are trying to place.
If you send it to PCGS, that can take several months. It can also take a couple months to go round trip to Stack's. It also is not a full time job for Mr. Hunt.
While a year is a long time, it can take that long if you are trying multiple channels because it can take 2+ months for some of those channels.
Alan: You are aware that PCGS can not “restore” coins in other company holders without an upfront agreement on what PCGS strongly believes the coin will grade out at after the restoration. Yes? This takes time - and lots of it. Months and months typically on a coin like this one. And, in the end, PCGS elected to not conserve the coin and involve itself in the project. They passed on the income. A far better outcome than a botched up restoration that had the coin being put in a PCGS holder many grades below the present grade, if graded at all. So, as far as the restoration project went (while it took a very long time) it appears to me PCGS and Alhambra did a great job protecting your father’s property (despite his wishes for restoration). Understood and agreed to?
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Two take-aways.
First, it DOES take a few days to get approved for posting here and
Two, there ARE two sides to every story.
(Actually, three sides- the third being the truth.)
There is no disagreement on the facts of the case from either party.
Actually, there is. AlanSki says his father has asked for the coin to be returned on a number of occasions. David Hunt says otherwise. I say the father probably asked about the coin a number of times, but never demanded its return because he wanted DH to keep trying. Perhaps AlanSki should have another chat with his dad and find out what really happened.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@wondercoin said:
Alan: You are aware that PCGS can not “restore” coins in other company holders without an upfront agreement on what PCGS strongly believes the coin will grade out at after the restoration. Yes? This takes time - and lots of it. Months and months typically on a coin like this one. And, in the end, PCGS elected to not conserve the coin and involve itself in the project. They passed on the income. A far better outcome than a botched up restoration that had the coin being put in a PCGS holder many grades below the present grade, if graded at all. So, as far as the restoration project went (while it took a very long time) it appears to me PCGS and Alhambra did a great job protecting your father’s property (despite his wishes for restoration). Understood and agreed to?
Wondercoin.
He’s getting it back after 12 months and that’s what matters now. This will be my final post In this thread no matter who else posts here.
Thanks to all who ended this nightmare of a situation for everyone involved.
@wondercoin said:
Alan: You are aware that PCGS can not “restore” coins in other company holders without an upfront agreement on what PCGS strongly believes the coin will grade out at after the restoration. Yes? This takes time - and lots of it. Months and months typically on a coin like this one. And, in the end, PCGS elected to not conserve the coin and involve itself in the project. They passed on the income. A far better outcome than a botched up restoration that had the coin being put in a PCGS holder many grades below the present grade, if graded at all. So, as far as the restoration project went (while it took a very long time) it appears to me PCGS and Alhambra did a great job protecting your father’s property (despite his wishes for restoration). Understood and agreed to?
Wondercoin.
He’s getting it back after 12 months and that’s what matters now. This will be my final post In this thread no matter who else posts here.
Thanks to all who ended this nightmare of a situation for everyone involved.
If it turns out you were wrong, don’t you think you would owe Alhambra a public apology?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Flip the script!
I think I saw the issue right from the get go... owners of the coin feel like it's worth $5000.
It's not.
Enter a helpful dealer, who is possibly also a friend of sorts, to try and find a route where the largest percentage of that imaginary 5K can be realized, and that takes time...
Fortunately, it's still in its original holder and you'll be getting it back.
First stop, try and accept that it's value is some fraction of the price posted in your title...😳
It looks like this thread had a happy ending. The coin will be returned. In light of the response posted by the dealer, I don’t see any reputational harm.
@Aotearoa said:
I remember Ethan. He had a brother?
Well, getting the coin back WAS turning into Mission: Impossible !!
"Collectors Universe posters...your mission....if you choose to accept it....is to get the coin back or a reasonable explanation of what has transpired... As always, should you or any of your CU associates be caught, the CU Moderators will disavow any knowledge of you or your operation."
Seriously, glad it finally looks resolved to BOTH parties contention.
@wondercoin said:
I was just asked to post this by Alhambra while they wait to get their new PCGS Forum account approved by the PCGS moderator(s):
"I have tried to fix a problem of a coin that I did not sell him, but naturally deteriorated in an old ANACS holder? I spoke to PCGS, (they told me not to touch it)...He bought it as a 65 but it’s now barely a 63 and after you get it and dip it it will be a cleaned unc.
This is something to keep in mind when one thinks of dipping.
Have to be carefully when not dealing with firsthand information. We have Hunt to dad to sister to poster which is probably not entirely accurate. Appears a quick call would have sorted this out.
@nags said:
Have to be carefully when not dealing with firsthand information. We have Hunt to dad to sister to poster which is probably not entirely accurate. Appears a quick call would have sorted this out.
Agree. Or a more anonymous contact from Wondercoin.
@nags said:
Have to be carefully when not dealing with firsthand information. We have Hunt to dad to sister to poster which is probably not entirely accurate. Appears a quick call would have sorted this out.
Agree. Or a more anonymous contact from Wondercoin.
You can contact the png which is a waste of time. Unfortunately they side with the dealers. It’s a good old boy system.
I found this out first hand , the ANA was more help to me. Eventually the PNG came around to help only after they knew the ANA was informed about my problem with the dealer.
I ended up emailing Stopcoinfraud.com The dealer had changed there tune after that within a few days. So I would contact them
Over a year ago my 86 year old father sent a MS65 Grant Star to a dealer to try and have some restoration done on it at PCGS. He received paperwork from the dealer specifying what he wanted to do even though the dealer acknowledged he never sent it in.
For the last 6 months my father has been requesting the return of the coin but the dealers “worker” has been sending him cheap slabs instead of the Grant Star. My father has met with him numerous times requesting the coin back to no avail.
Both my father and the dealer are in Southern California while I’m in South Dakota, so it’s difficult for me to try and intervene.
At this point, what would be his best course of action? Contact a lawyer to write an intent to sue if the coin isn’t returned or???
Comments
yeah. i was going to say that a promise of monday and actually doing it are another.
is this the owner saying monday? has it been conserved? is it still in the same holder?
This is the point I stepped in and created this thread.
"choice bu"?
providing quite a number of those is a far cry to equivalency
There was no attempt at equivalency. It was just a gift as far as I can tell
Not for nothing, but not one word in the texts you posted would be admissible in court. It's all hearsay.
Why didn't you just call Hunt? (Curiosity, not an accusation. )
A gift or some form of appeasement for not doing a service that was requested over 1 year ago?
Oh boy...
Coin forum or court room?
This kinda went off the rails all the sudden, like @Pnies20 said, its not my business... good luck!
This isn’t court. This was to show a timeline of events from my perspective from what I was told just so everyone has the information from my side. If the dealer ever decides to come in and refute anything, everything I know or was told is here.
I would view with favor the dealer coming on the forum to explain what happened, after the coin is returned.
@AlanSki seems like you have gotten some help from a few quality board members to help get this resolved.
But you keep stirring the pot. Let it rest and see what happens next week before you continue on your rant
Just a suggestion
Martin
Hunt. . . Hunt... H U N T
Anyone remember the Hunt brothers?
peacockcoins
I remember Ethan. He had a brother?
Smitten with DBLCs.
Amazing how one side of a story can provoke such drama.
It would be a lot more fun if we had both sides. At least then, some of the emotional responses might be justified.
Yes & has anyone remembered Sea Hunt*
*just to add to my post count.
Maybe not absolute proof, but it is certainly equal time and would put an end to any "slander" or "libel" that was allegedly taking place.
I have found that when one side makes public a cause for action and the other side does NOT....that most times, the former has the much stronger case.
I was just asked to post this by Alhambra while they wait to get their new PCGS Forum account approved by the PCGS moderator(s):
“If you had bothered to make one single phone call to me or bother to listen to your father rather than take over his assets, you would have known we spoke yesterday, and planned lunch for Tuesday or Wednesday (at his convenience) for me to return this disaster of a coin back. I have known him since 1985 and we have a nice business and social relationship, so we both were unaware you were so concerned about what you obviously think is yours….not his. Did you mention anywhere in your posts that over the past 12 months I have tried to fix a problem of a coin that I did not sell him, but naturally deteriorated in an old ANACS holder? I spoke to PCGS, (they told me not to touch it), tried to put it in old holder auctions with Stacks and Great Collections (couldn’t get a reserve) and brought it to numerous shows to wholesale it based on the old holder concept. No help. He bought it as a 65 but it’s now barely a 63 and after you get it and dip it it will be a cleaned unc. Though I do represent Alhambra Coin, I take full responsibility for my dealings with your father, as I’ve known him for 40 years. There was never any urgency communicated to me by your father that he needed the coin back. You denied to him on the phone this evening that you said anything critical, just wanted to point out it hadn’t been returned, you said, remember, I speak to him as well. Alhambra Coin Center has been in business since 1975, and certainly wouldn’t sully our reputation over something like this. Keep it up, you show who you really are.
David W. Hunt
PCGS member
NGC member
CAC member and Stockholder
Lifetime member ANA
Numerous other professional memberships
3 time Coin World “100 Most Influential Numismatist”
Coin World, “100 Most Influential Coin Company, 2023”
END QUOTE
Wondercoin
Alan, "says to some auction" -- is that a typo......SENT to some auction ?
No urgency yet they had it for over a year and he requested it back numerous times.
Gotcha. Typical dealer gibberish.
Show who I really am. A 100% disabled combat veteran sticking up for his aging father so he can get his property back.
Btw.. the comment about me not telling my father anything???
Thanks, Mitch. Unfortunately, we may be about to demonstrate why there is no point in a reputable dealer responding to criticism on coin forums.
Instead of “The forum needs a little humor” replace it with
This thread needs a little humor*
*another add to my post count post.
That text confirms exactly what Mr. Hunt said in his message.
I would suggest backing away from this. There is no disagreement on the facts of the case from either party. On the face of it, Mr. Hunt may well have been trying to help your father place the coin. Given that your father had lunch with him very recently, it also doesn't appear that your father was as upset with Mr. Hunt as you are. No good can come from continuing to try and make a case.
What Hunt isn’t saying is the “Invoice” supposedly says “Appraisal” on it. What dealer would need to take a coin for appraisal when they can pull out a loupe and a phone, check CDN bid/ask prices and do it right there. However, he even stated he knew my father wanted conservation even going as far to say PCGS told him not to dip it. Then it suddenly is going to get wholesaled, but never does? Something isn’t adding up. It doesn’t take over 12 months to figure that out.
If it were a multimillionaire with a $200k coin would he have been given the same 12 month treatment? Highly doubtful.
Since Hunt seems to think I want my father’s assets, I think it’s the other way around. I know you had a collector who wanted his high end commemoratives but I sold them for him and he received 100% of the money without paying commission.
If my memory is correct I remember buying 10 one ounce gold Kruggerands from Mr. Hunt in the early 2000s for something like $285 each which at that time was a huge $um for me.
My family thought I was crazy to spend so much money.
I still have them.
This is not an “add to my post count” post.
Actually, it does make sense. "Appraisal" might be a catch all. Different dealers use different phrases for coins they are not buying but are trying to place.
If you send it to PCGS, that can take several months. It can also take a couple months to go round trip to Stack's. It also is not a full time job for Mr. Hunt.
While a year is a long time, it can take that long if you are trying multiple channels because it can take 2+ months for some of those channels.
I again suggest you take a step back from this.
Alan: You are aware that PCGS can not “restore” coins in other company holders without an upfront agreement on what PCGS strongly believes the coin will grade out at after the restoration. Yes? This takes time - and lots of it. Months and months typically on a coin like this one. And, in the end, PCGS elected to not conserve the coin and involve itself in the project. They passed on the income. A far better outcome than a botched up restoration that had the coin being put in a PCGS holder many grades below the present grade, if graded at all. So, as far as the restoration project went (while it took a very long time) it appears to me PCGS and Alhambra did a great job protecting your father’s property (despite his wishes for restoration). Understood and agreed to?
Wondercoin.
Two take-aways.
First, it DOES take a few days to get approved for posting here and
Two, there ARE two sides to every story.
(Actually, three sides- the third being the truth.)
peacockcoins
Actually, there is. AlanSki says his father has asked for the coin to be returned on a number of occasions. David Hunt says otherwise. I say the father probably asked about the coin a number of times, but never demanded its return because he wanted DH to keep trying. Perhaps AlanSki should have another chat with his dad and find out what really happened.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
He’s getting it back after 12 months and that’s what matters now. This will be my final post In this thread no matter who else posts here.
Thanks to all who ended this nightmare of a situation for everyone involved.
Glad to see this coming to a positive conclusion. LIke Shakespeare said, "All's well that ends well".
If it turns out you were wrong, don’t you think you would owe Alhambra a public apology?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Flip the script!
I think I saw the issue right from the get go... owners of the coin feel like it's worth $5000.
It's not.
Enter a helpful dealer, who is possibly also a friend of sorts, to try and find a route where the largest percentage of that imaginary 5K can be realized, and that takes time...
Fortunately, it's still in its original holder and you'll be getting it back.
First stop, try and accept that it's value is some fraction of the price posted in your title...😳
It looks like this thread had a happy ending. The coin will be returned. In light of the response posted by the dealer, I don’t see any reputational harm.
Alanski and his father’s wishes have been “Grant”ed.
Disappointed my spidey senses did not pick up on...
ANACS holder
Problem Coin
PCGS valuation
Recipe for disappointment.
Have had this same tough journey with my dad.
Age can sometimes hinder their decision process, thus kicking the can down the road.
So one problem coin in a big company get shelved.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
I’m very glad that this issue appears to be resolved.
And great job, @wondercoin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well, getting the coin back WAS turning into Mission: Impossible !!
"Collectors Universe posters...your mission....if you choose to accept it....is to get the coin back or a reasonable explanation of what has transpired... As always, should you or any of your CU associates be caught, the CU Moderators will disavow any knowledge of you or your operation."
Seriously, glad it finally looks resolved to BOTH parties contention.
This is something to keep in mind when one thinks of dipping.
This thread is a fun read. I enjoyed reading it a lot especially when these terms are posted by well respected members of the forum:
police
lawyers
slander
libel
law suit
etc
This is another addition to my post count.
Have to be carefully when not dealing with firsthand information. We have Hunt to dad to sister to poster which is probably not entirely accurate. Appears a quick call would have sorted this out.
Agree. Or a more anonymous contact from Wondercoin.
Agree. Or a more anonymous contact from Wondercoin.
We all know now the said coin is NOT a $5K coin, but significantly less than $5K.
You can contact the png which is a waste of time. Unfortunately they side with the dealers. It’s a good old boy system.
I found this out first hand , the ANA was more help to me. Eventually the PNG came around to help only after they knew the ANA was informed about my problem with the dealer.
I ended up emailing Stopcoinfraud.com The dealer had changed there tune after that within a few days. So I would contact them
@AlanSki said: