@JBK said:
I was hoping for a happy ending but that outfit has forever tarnished its reputation in my book.
Sue for slander for laying out the facts?
This thread could have ended in such a way that the coin shop could have earned alot of goodwill and commendation. But they chose another path....
To be fair, the other side of the story (and facts) are unknown to us.
What "other side"? Coin has been MIA for over a year while dad is repeatedly jerked around. Reputable dealers on this forum get involved, and suddenly the coin is on its way back while a slander suit is threatened. Did I miss anything?
Yes, you missed whatever the other side of the story is. For example, there might have been a miscommunication and/or misunderstanding of some type. There might have also been missed or lost messages during the process. We simply don’t know.
Please don’t take any of the above as my not empathizing with the OP and his father. If that were the case, I wouldn’t have participated and tried to help.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have been following this thread from the beginning. Hopefully, an explainable oversight, but clearly the dealer did not do what he was asked to do by the customer over a year ago. Your father will be very relieved to finally get the coin back. The dealer is accusing the OP of slander; making false accusations? Wow.
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
For real.
Not sure exactly how much gravitas this forum holds in the dealer world these days, but for sure it'd be better to explain oneself right here while there is an opportunity.
Especially if the thread gets locked or poofed all of the sudden..
@JBK said:
I was hoping for a happy ending but that outfit has forever tarnished its reputation in my book.
Sue for slander for laying out the facts?
This thread could have ended in such a way that the coin shop could have earned alot of goodwill and commendation. But they chose another path....
To be fair, the other side of the story (and facts) are unknown to us.
Which is why naming people in threads like this is usually a bad idea...
No, it was a good idea. A year is long enough to test anyone's patience.
Mark
That is rather beside the point. As Wondercoin pointed out, there are a lot of facts that may not be known. Exacerbating the situation by naming people can also turn out badly. Whether it worked this time or not does not make it a good idea in general.
I spoke to my father again. Alhambra coin is going to return his coin and has threatened to sue me for slander if I don’t retract this thread. I said I’ll request the thread be nuked once he has his coin in hand.
That ship sailed... Google the Streisand Effect...
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@Pnies20 said:
Why is everyone so Litigious these days?
All anyone can think to do is sue someone.
Very glad your dad is getting his coin back!
It's been a YEAR and the father has gotten no where...it's well passed time to break out the big words like LITIGATION.
Some people just don't understand or want to hear anything until they are prompted by litigation.
@Pnies20 said:
Why is everyone so Litigious these days?
All anyone can think to do is sue someone.
Very glad your dad is getting his coin back!
It's been a YEAR and the father has gotten no where...it's well passed time to break out the big words like LITIGATION.
Some people just don't understand or want to hear anything until they are prompted by litigation.
@AlanSki said: @wondercoin@MFeld@SanctionII
I spoke to my father again. Alhambra coin is going to return his coin and has threatened to sue me for slander if I >don’t retract this thread. I said I’ll request the thread be nuked once he has his coin in hand.
Yup, sue a 100% disabled veteran for helping his aging father get a coin back. Get a load of that nonsense.
If the facts are as you stated, there is no cause for slander. The statements on this board -- that they had your coin, wouldn't give an accounting of it, and wouldn't return it -- are NOT in dispute (at least from them). They never told your father -- or you -- where the coin was or why it wasn't given back when he/you asked for it.
If that is not how they see it, they should say why.
The truth is an absolute defense against slander and defamation. Now, if they have repeatedly told your father where the coin was and he signed off on it...or they did the same with you...that's another story.
Since you have not said that, I call bull on their slander threat. They could have told your father/you WHERE the coin was or just returned it -- and from what you said to us, they never did.
I wonder if they are covering up for a dishonest or sloppy employee ?
@jmlanzaf said:
As Wondercoin pointed out, there are a lot of facts that may not be known. Exacerbating the situation by naming >people can also turn out badly. Whether it worked this time or not does not make it a good idea in general.
If the other party has been wronged, they can state here WHY they were wronged and everybody who took the opposing side will look like a jerk.
If this was an honest mistake, fine...mistakes happen. But as a few people here said, this took a year to get back a coin. When someone asks that you return something, it's pretty straightforward.
@Pnies20 said:
Why is everyone so Litigious these days?
All anyone can think to do is sue someone.
Very glad your dad is getting his coin back!
It's been a YEAR and the father has gotten no where...it's well passed time to break out the big words like LITIGATION.
Some people just don't understand or want to hear anything until they are prompted by litigation.
Wasn’t referring to his dad.
You did ask “Why is everyone.,,”😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@JBK said:
I was hoping for a happy ending but that outfit has forever tarnished its reputation in my book.
Sue for slander for laying out the facts?
This thread could have ended in such a way that the coin shop could have earned alot of goodwill and commendation. But they chose another path....
To be fair, the other side of the story (and facts) are unknown to us.
Which is why naming people in threads like this is usually a bad idea...
No, it was a good idea. A year is long enough to test anyone's patience.
Mark
That is rather beside the point. As Wondercoin pointed out, there are a lot of facts that may not be known. Exacerbating the situation by naming people can also turn out badly. Whether it worked this time or not does not make it a good idea in general.
What might I have said that's "beside the point"? The man has been requesting the return of his coin for at least 6 months to no avail. The fact that the coin has been in the dealer's possession for a year and has yet to be sent to PCGS is unacceptable.
An 86 year old man waiting years for his property to be returned with his most interested son 1000 miles away may also not generate a favorable result.
It appears the dealer has the link to this thread and may state their case any time on this open forum should the OP have misstated the facts. Instead of threatening the OP, the company could apologize and promptly return the property they have held for a year or come here and tell us the "facts that may not be known" if there are any. No need to ask to delete a thread... if the truth favors the dealer. So far their silence speaks for itself.
@braddick said:
Mark,
To be fair, if this dealer is not a PCGS board member it takes a couple of days sometimes to get approved to post.
I'm sure the mods would expedite matters. Regardless, if they had another side to this whole fracas, they should be able to post it within a day or so.
It does appear that this dispute was with an EMPLOYEE of the firm, NOT the OWNERS.
The employee works for the owner and the owner i> @GoldFinger1969 said:
@braddick said:
Mark,
To be fair, if this dealer is not a PCGS board member it takes a couple of days sometimes to get approved to post.
I'm sure the mods would expedite matters. Regardless, if they had another side to this whole fracas, they should be able to post it within a day or so.
It does appear that this dispute was with an EMPLOYEE of the firm, NOT the OWNERS.
Big difference.
Isn’t the owner responsible for the actions of his employees?
I read this whole thread, I have had my share of similar experiences. If everything told here is true, if I were that dealer I would be bending over backward to make this right. But this one threatens to "sue for slander". There is a certain type who do this, when finally called to account they delay, delay, delay until the S&*t finally hits the fan, then they go on the attack. Remind you of anyone famous? Look forward to hearing how this is finally resolved.
@JBK said:
I was hoping for a happy ending but that outfit has forever tarnished its reputation in my book.
Sue for slander for laying out the facts?
This thread could have ended in such a way that the coin shop could have earned alot of goodwill and commendation. But they chose another path....
To be fair, the other side of the story (and facts) are unknown to us.
Which is why naming people in threads like this is usually a bad idea...
Is it coincidental that the coin is being returned 48 hours after the dealer was outed?
The same result would likely have been achieved by Wondercoin contacting the dealer without the public naming. The dealer didn't see the thread. The dealer was contacted by @wondercoin and alerted to the problem.
And, often, there is more to the story. We're assuming that we have the whole story and it is accurate. And, in this case, maybe it is. But that doesn't make it a good practice as we could just as easily have backed the wrong horse.
@JBK said:
I was hoping for a happy ending but that outfit has forever tarnished its reputation in my book.
Sue for slander for laying out the facts?
This thread could have ended in such a way that the coin shop could have earned alot of goodwill and commendation. But they chose another path....
To be fair, the other side of the story (and facts) are unknown to us.
Which is why naming people in threads like this is usually a bad idea...
No, it was a good idea. A year is long enough to test anyone's patience.
Mark
That is rather beside the point. As Wondercoin pointed out, there are a lot of facts that may not be known. Exacerbating the situation by naming people can also turn out badly. Whether it worked this time or not does not make it a good idea in general.
What might I have said that's "beside the point"? The man has been requesting the return of his coin for at least 6 months to no avail. The fact that the coin has been in the dealer's possession for a year and has yet to be sent to PCGS is unacceptable.
An 86 year old man waiting years for his property to be returned with his most interested son 1000 miles away may also not generate a favorable result.
It appears the dealer has the link to this thread and may state their case any time on this open forum should the OP have misstated the facts. Instead of threatening the OP, the company could apologize and promptly return the property they have held for a year or come here and tell us the "facts that may not be known" if there are any. No need to ask to delete a thread... if the truth favors the dealer. So far their silence speaks for itself.
Mark
What is "beside the point" is that whether justice was served (or not) in this thread, the general practice is a bad idea. We had a case a year or two ago where someone was publicly outed and it turned out that the person posting was only telling part of the story. It happens.
@jmlanzaf said:
As Wondercoin pointed out, there are a lot of facts that may not be known. Exacerbating the situation by naming >people can also turn out badly. Whether it worked this time or not does not make it a good idea in general.
If the other party has been wronged, they can state here WHY they were wronged and everybody who took the opposing side will look like a jerk.
If this was an honest mistake, fine...mistakes happen. But as a few people here said, this took a year to get back a coin. When someone asks that you return something, it's pretty straightforward.
This is not a court of law. There is, generally speaking, no certified letter sent from the forum to the other party. Usually, we NEVER hear the other side of the story because the outed party never even knows they were outed.
The outing of the dealer in this case had little to do with the outcome. Wondercoin contacted the party which could have happened privately without the rest of us ever knowing who was involved.
There is a reason why courts have rules of evidence and the like.
@AlanSki said: @wondercoin@MFeld@SanctionII
I spoke to my father again. Alhambra coin is going to return his coin and has threatened to sue me for slander if I don’t retract this thread. I said I’ll request the thread be nuked once he has his coin in hand.
Yup, sue a 100% disabled veteran for helping his aging father get a coin back. Get a load of that nonsense.
I'm not an attorney but I believe they can't sue for slander. Slander is defamation in oral form; libel is defamation in written form based on untruth. Also, the OP did not post the images of the parties mentioned, someone else did that. If the facts are as the OP states I doubt, there is any case for suing.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
@AlanSki said: @wondercoin@MFeld@SanctionII
I spoke to my father again. Alhambra coin is going to return his coin and has threatened to sue me for slander if I don’t retract this thread. I said I’ll request the thread be nuked once he has his coin in hand.
Yup, sue a 100% disabled veteran for helping his aging father get a coin back. Get a load of that nonsense.
I'm not an attorney but I believe they can't sue for slander. Slander is defamation in oral form; libel is defamation in written form based on untruth. Also, the OP did not post the images of the parties mentioned, someone else did that. If the facts are as the OP states I doubt, there is any case for suing.
I agree.
Nine times out of ten when someone threatens to sue, they don't have a case.
Just a very effective scare tactic.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
A very sad story so far, to be sure and I suppose we may never know all the details. Many of the comments do reflect 20-20 hindsight but hopefully it all works out reasonable well even with the huge delay. Like others I would like to hear the other side of the story even if it is difficult to imagine good explanations.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@tcollects said:
sounds like they were just waiting for grandpa to die and keep the coin
I hope you don’t really believe that, but either way, there are a multitude of far more plausible explanations.
What would a few of the plausible explanations be? Would any show the dealer in a good light or get them "off the hook"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@tcollects said:
sounds like they were just waiting for grandpa to die and keep the coin
I hope you don’t really believe that, but either way, there are a multitude of far more plausible explanations.
What would a few of the plausible explanations be? Would any show the dealer in a good light or get them "off the hook"?
It could have been a misunderstanding and/or miscommunication between the parties involved or a message, that for whatever reason, the other party didn’t receive, and so on.
This is a well known, long time dealer with an excellent track record. Based on one side of the story, it appears they messed up over a long period of time. But that’s a far cry from “sounds like they were just waiting for grandpa to die and keep the coin”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@7Jaguars said:
A very sad story so far, to be sure and I suppose we may never know all the details. Many of the comments do >reflect 20-20 hindsight but hopefully it all works out reasonable well even with the huge delay. Like others I would >like to hear the other side of the story even if it is difficult to imagine good explanations.
Absolutely. If the Owner or Employee of the firm posts here that they attempted to resolve this....or sent him in writing an update...or he owed them $$$...or anything like that....I'll be the first to state that the OP knowingly or unknowingly didn't have all the facts (maybe because his father IS 86 years old). However, this does seem pretty cut-and-dried on the basic facts.
Again, I just want justice done with the coin returned (or at least given the original servicing request for restoration). If the Owner/Employee has another side, we should see it soon.
I think we can all agree it is highly UNLIKELY that they have a legitimate defense if they never post it here.
@7Jaguars said:
A very sad story so far, to be sure and I suppose we may never know all the details. Many of the comments do >reflect 20-20 hindsight but hopefully it all works out reasonable well even with the huge delay. Like others I would >like to hear the other side of the story even if it is difficult to imagine good explanations.
Absolutely. If the Owner or Employee of the firm posts here that they attempted to resolve this....or sent him in writing an update...or he owed them $$$...or anything like that....I'll be the first to state that the OP knowingly or unknowingly didn't have all the facts (maybe because his father IS 86 years old). However, this does seem pretty cut-and-dried on the basic facts.
Again, I just want justice done with the coin returned (or at least given the original servicing request for restoration). If the Owner/Employee has another side, we should see it soon.
I think we can all agree it is highly UNLIKELY that they have a legitimate defense if they never post it here.
They may have no desire to be on this forum.
Also, If they are threatening legal action because of this thread, their counsel would strongly discourage coming into the thread and posting in it.
Would like to know more info but it’s none of my business.
Glad you're getting the coin back. The question of did they have the coin has been resolved. The question as to why they held the coin for a year has not been resolved. I'd be very interested in understanding the reasons for holding on to this coin and refusing to return it.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
When I enter a room with 100 coin dealers, it usually seems to break down about like this...
You got about 90 schmoes.. no coins to speak of, pleasant/unpleasant- honest/dishonest.. whatever, they could just stay home, same difference.
Then you got Maybe 5 good to great dealers. Honest, pleasant... and they have nice stuff.
But usually you have about 5 who just seem greasy...
I'd say the absolute, number 1 most important thing in numismatics...
Don't be greasy.
This is a a big time outfit?
They could fix this instantly for $5000.
More importantly, it seems smart to get on top of bad PR like this quickly.
@7Jaguars said:
A very sad story so far, to be sure and I suppose we may never know all the details. Many of the comments do >reflect 20-20 hindsight but hopefully it all works out reasonable well even with the huge delay. Like others I would >like to hear the other side of the story even if it is difficult to imagine good explanations.
Absolutely. If the Owner or Employee of the firm posts here that they attempted to resolve this....or sent him in writing an update...or he owed them $$$...or anything like that....I'll be the first to state that the OP knowingly or unknowingly didn't have all the facts (maybe because his father IS 86 years old). However, this does seem pretty cut-and-dried on the basic facts.
Again, I just want justice done with the coin returned (or at least given the original servicing request for restoration). If the Owner/Employee has another side, we should see it soon.
I think we can all agree it is highly UNLIKELY that they have a legitimate defense if they never post it here.
Not posting on this forum is not proof of anything
We don't know that the dealer refused to return it, that's just what we've been told. I saw no dates from the OP so it may not have actually been a year. We don't know the true timeline, the original agreement, or what the subsequent conversations were like. We don't know what the sample slabs are all about.
All we have is a person whose elderly father doesn't have his coin and suspects he's being taken advantage of. This could have easily colored his perception of the situation and affected how he relays the story to third parties. We simply have no independent information.
It should also be noted that the OP is the one who in his original post initiated discussion about legal action, not the dealer, so the outrage about the dealer's response seems misplaced. IF the facts are not as the OP has stated then the dealer's response is understandable (if probably a bit excessive) given the initial threat and subsequent agreement by forum members about the possibility of legal action.
@fluffy155 said:
We don't know that the dealer refused to return it, that's just what we've been told. I saw no dates from the OP so it may not have actually been a year. We don't know the true timeline, the original agreement, or what the subsequent conversations were like. We don't know what the sample slabs are all about.
All we have is a person whose elderly father doesn't have his coin and suspects he's being taken advantage of. This could have easily colored his perception of the situation and affected how he relays the story to third parties. We simply have no independent information.
It should also be noted that the OP is the one who in his original post initiated discussion about legal action, not the dealer, so the outrage about the dealer's response seems misplaced. IF the facts are not as the OP has stated then the dealer's response is understandable (if probably a bit excessive) given the initial threat and subsequent agreement by forum members about the possibility of legal action.
While all of that is true, unfortunately, it’s irrelevant to some posters.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
@NJCoin said:
Yes, you missed whatever the other side of the story is. For example, there might have been a miscommunication and/or misunderstanding of some type. There might have also been missed or lost messages during the process. We simply don’t know.
Please don’t take any of the above as my not empathizing with the OP and his father. If that were the case, I wouldn’t have participated and tried to help.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
‘’I spoke to my father again. Alhambra coin is going to return his coin and has threatened to sue me for slander if I don’t retract this thread.’’
Your father must be so proud of you Alan. I can only hope in my “twilight” years, my children protect me the way you protect your Dad! Just saying.
Wondercoin.
I have been following this thread from the beginning. Hopefully, an explainable oversight, but clearly the dealer did not do what he was asked to do by the customer over a year ago. Your father will be very relieved to finally get the coin back. The dealer is accusing the OP of slander; making false accusations? Wow.
Maybe he should've said I'm sorry instead of I'll sue
Why is everyone so Litigious these days?
All anyone can think to do is sue someone.
Very glad your dad is getting his coin back!
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
For real.
Not sure exactly how much gravitas this forum holds in the dealer world these days, but for sure it'd be better to explain oneself right here while there is an opportunity.
Especially if the thread gets locked or poofed all of the sudden..
Which is why naming people in threads like this is usually a bad idea...
Not to mention posting their photos, however obtained.
No, it was a good idea. A year is long enough to test anyone's patience.
Mark
That is rather beside the point. As Wondercoin pointed out, there are a lot of facts that may not be known. Exacerbating the situation by naming people can also turn out badly. Whether it worked this time or not does not make it a good idea in general.
That ship sailed... Google the Streisand Effect...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
It's been a YEAR and the father has gotten no where...it's well passed time to break out the big words like LITIGATION.
Some people just don't understand or want to hear anything until they are prompted by litigation.
Is it because there are more lawyers than lawyer work?
I hope the coin gets returned in next couple days.
Is it coincidental that the coin is being returned 48 hours after the dealer was outed?
Wasn’t referring to his dad.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
“However obtained”? It’s from a little app called Instagram. The post is quite complimentary about Alhambra. You should watch it.
Tim
If the facts are as you stated, there is no cause for slander. The statements on this board -- that they had your coin, wouldn't give an accounting of it, and wouldn't return it -- are NOT in dispute (at least from them). They never told your father -- or you -- where the coin was or why it wasn't given back when he/you asked for it.
If that is not how they see it, they should say why.
The truth is an absolute defense against slander and defamation. Now, if they have repeatedly told your father where the coin was and he signed off on it...or they did the same with you...that's another story.
Since you have not said that, I call bull on their slander threat. They could have told your father/you WHERE the coin was or just returned it -- and from what you said to us, they never did.
I wonder if they are covering up for a dishonest or sloppy employee ?
If the other party has been wronged, they can state here WHY they were wronged and everybody who took the opposing side will look like a jerk.
If this was an honest mistake, fine...mistakes happen. But as a few people here said, this took a year to get back a coin. When someone asks that you return something, it's pretty straightforward.
So, after a year- has this commemorative been conserved as requested?
peacockcoins
You did ask “Why is everyone.,,”😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I should find out Monday.
What might I have said that's "beside the point"? The man has been requesting the return of his coin for at least 6 months to no avail. The fact that the coin has been in the dealer's possession for a year and has yet to be sent to PCGS is unacceptable.
An 86 year old man waiting years for his property to be returned with his most interested son 1000 miles away may also not generate a favorable result.
It appears the dealer has the link to this thread and may state their case any time on this open forum should the OP have misstated the facts. Instead of threatening the OP, the company could apologize and promptly return the property they have held for a year or come here and tell us the "facts that may not be known" if there are any. No need to ask to delete a thread... if the truth favors the dealer. So far their silence speaks for itself.
Mark
Mark,
To be fair, if this dealer is not a PCGS board member it takes a couple of days sometimes to get approved to post.
peacockcoins
I'm sure the mods would expedite matters. Regardless, if they had another side to this whole fracas, they should be able to post it within a day or so.
It does appear that this dispute was with an EMPLOYEE of the firm, NOT the OWNERS.
Big difference.
The employee works for the owner and the owner i> @GoldFinger1969 said:
Isn’t the owner responsible for the actions of his employees?
I read this whole thread, I have had my share of similar experiences. If everything told here is true, if I were that dealer I would be bending over backward to make this right. But this one threatens to "sue for slander". There is a certain type who do this, when finally called to account they delay, delay, delay until the S&*t finally hits the fan, then they go on the attack. Remind you of anyone famous? Look forward to hearing how this is finally resolved.
The same result would likely have been achieved by Wondercoin contacting the dealer without the public naming. The dealer didn't see the thread. The dealer was contacted by @wondercoin and alerted to the problem.
And, often, there is more to the story. We're assuming that we have the whole story and it is accurate. And, in this case, maybe it is. But that doesn't make it a good practice as we could just as easily have backed the wrong horse.
What is "beside the point" is that whether justice was served (or not) in this thread, the general practice is a bad idea. We had a case a year or two ago where someone was publicly outed and it turned out that the person posting was only telling part of the story. It happens.
This is not a court of law. There is, generally speaking, no certified letter sent from the forum to the other party. Usually, we NEVER hear the other side of the story because the outed party never even knows they were outed.
The outing of the dealer in this case had little to do with the outcome. Wondercoin contacted the party which could have happened privately without the rest of us ever knowing who was involved.
There is a reason why courts have rules of evidence and the like.
I'm not an attorney but I believe they can't sue for slander. Slander is defamation in oral form; libel is defamation in written form based on untruth. Also, the OP did not post the images of the parties mentioned, someone else did that. If the facts are as the OP states I doubt, there is any case for suing.
sounds like they were just waiting for grandpa to die and keep the coin
edit: now we need to throw the OP in a river, if he floats he's a witch
I agree.
Nine times out of ten when someone threatens to sue, they don't have a case.
Just a very effective scare tactic.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
A very sad story so far, to be sure and I suppose we may never know all the details. Many of the comments do reflect 20-20 hindsight but hopefully it all works out reasonable well even with the huge delay. Like others I would like to hear the other side of the story even if it is difficult to imagine good explanations.
Well, just Love coins, period.
I hope you don’t really believe that, but either way, there are a multitude of far more plausible explanations.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What would a few of the plausible explanations be? Would any show the dealer in a good light or get them "off the hook"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It could have been a misunderstanding and/or miscommunication between the parties involved or a message, that for whatever reason, the other party didn’t receive, and so on.
This is a well known, long time dealer with an excellent track record. Based on one side of the story, it appears they messed up over a long period of time. But that’s a far cry from “sounds like they were just waiting for grandpa to die and keep the coin”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
okay, I'm convinced now that everything about this is on the up and up and easily explainable
And I’m equally (un)convinced that your theory is valid.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Absolutely. If the Owner or Employee of the firm posts here that they attempted to resolve this....or sent him in writing an update...or he owed them $$$...or anything like that....I'll be the first to state that the OP knowingly or unknowingly didn't have all the facts (maybe because his father IS 86 years old). However, this does seem pretty cut-and-dried on the basic facts.
Again, I just want justice done with the coin returned (or at least given the original servicing request for restoration). If the Owner/Employee has another side, we should see it soon.
I think we can all agree it is highly UNLIKELY that they have a legitimate defense if they never post it here.
They may have no desire to be on this forum.
Also, If they are threatening legal action because of this thread, their counsel would strongly discourage coming into the thread and posting in it.
Would like to know more info but it’s none of my business.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Glad you're getting the coin back. The question of did they have the coin has been resolved. The question as to why they held the coin for a year has not been resolved. I'd be very interested in understanding the reasons for holding on to this coin and refusing to return it.
When I enter a room with 100 coin dealers, it usually seems to break down about like this...
You got about 90 schmoes.. no coins to speak of, pleasant/unpleasant- honest/dishonest.. whatever, they could just stay home, same difference.
Then you got Maybe 5 good to great dealers. Honest, pleasant... and they have nice stuff.
But usually you have about 5 who just seem greasy...
I'd say the absolute, number 1 most important thing in numismatics...
Don't be greasy.
This is a a big time outfit?
They could fix this instantly for $5000.
More importantly, it seems smart to get on top of bad PR like this quickly.
I like working with smart dealers 🤗
Not posting on this forum is not proof of anything
We don't know that the dealer refused to return it, that's just what we've been told. I saw no dates from the OP so it may not have actually been a year. We don't know the true timeline, the original agreement, or what the subsequent conversations were like. We don't know what the sample slabs are all about.
All we have is a person whose elderly father doesn't have his coin and suspects he's being taken advantage of. This could have easily colored his perception of the situation and affected how he relays the story to third parties. We simply have no independent information.
It should also be noted that the OP is the one who in his original post initiated discussion about legal action, not the dealer, so the outrage about the dealer's response seems misplaced. IF the facts are not as the OP has stated then the dealer's response is understandable (if probably a bit excessive) given the initial threat and subsequent agreement by forum members about the possibility of legal action.
Glad to read that the coin is being returned to its owner.
While all of that is true, unfortunately, it’s irrelevant to some posters.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Dates via text as proof…
