Update… Coin returned!
AlanSki
Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
Over a year ago my 86 year old father sent a MS65 Grant Star to a dealer to try and have some restoration done on it at PCGS. He received paperwork from the dealer specifying what he wanted to do even though the dealer acknowledged he never sent it in.
For the last 6 months my father has been requesting the return of the coin but the dealers “worker” has been sending him cheap slabs instead of the Grant Star. My father has met with him numerous times requesting the coin back to no avail.
Both my father and the dealer are in Southern California while I’m in South Dakota, so it’s difficult for me to try and intervene.
At this point, what would be his best course of action? Contact a lawyer to write an intent to sue if the coin isn’t returned or???
Comments
Hire a lawyer.
What about your father filing a police report?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Also complain to the dealer's local BBB.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I am a lawyer in No. Cal.
I would be willing to help out your father in seeking a return of his coin from the dealer.
If interested send me a PM.
Kevin Eikenberry
Well Done Sir!
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
He’s trying not to do that because he doesn’t want the stress. He recently had a kidney removed due to cancer and has CHF so he doesn’t have the energy to be dealing with too much. I’m trying to light a flame under his rear so he doesn’t end up just giving up.
I’m hoping the dealer still has the coin….
I'm guessing that he sold it or lost it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I was thinking the same thing.
If possible, could a photo of the commem in its holder with number visible, so that all could know the coin, in case it turns up missing. Perhaps, if even sold someone may know about it or even have it.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Does your father have a signed receipt for the coin to use as proof that he gave him that specific coin?
If "sent" means "mail", you could also file a mail fraud complaint with USPS.
But I would stay with a certified letter, on legal letterhead if possible (thanks @SanctionII !!!). If that doesn't light a fire under them, a police report would be appropriate.
Anything is possible at this point. Many things could have been done with the coin. Evidence as usual in the law is at the core of subsequent actions.
If this guy works with PCGS, shouldn't he be reported ?
I think that reporting a dealer to PCGS is rather the lowest action that could be taken.
It’s an ANACS solo top pop so it shouldn’t be hard to spot if it ever shows up anywhere.
I’ll post the dealers name if my fathers meeting with them next week doesn’t go as planned.
He does have paperwork on their letterhead.
I can appreciate your 86 year old father not needing the stress. Two ideas.
Contact PCGS Customer Service and ask if Restorations Services have/had the coin?
Is the dealer a PNG dealer?
He is, he’s at the ANA show in Colorado right now.
Inform him that if the coin is not returned in a timely manner, your family attorney as advised you that in order to save his legal fees, the FIRST STEP before he contacts the Postal Service and police in a fraud case is to file a formal complaint to the ANA.
Do you know of any marks the coin may have that are identifying? If it’s still in that slab it will be easy to spot, but if it’s been cracked (and if it was restored, some or all of the toning could be gone) you may need something else to identify the coin.
Let him know that if the coin is not returned you will publicly out him on every coin forum.
This could be dramatic... best case, it's still in the anacs holder.
If it was conserved at PCGS, it could very well have a very different grade on the holder.
And a very different value...
Sure, I just meant in addition to the criminal steps. A guy with a relationship with the TPGs who is stealing submitted stuff is not someone you want as an authorized dealer, right ?
Please explain the part about the dealer sending your father “cheap slabs”. Something doesn’t compute.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It smells like foul play— what an awful situation!
Please share the dealer name so we can avoid them. Wishing you the best of luck in getting this resolved
If this all is the way it is described....then
POLICE is the only answer. This is only my opinion.
Once police gets involved they will look at all sides and... hopefully get the proper results.
My father calls him and requests the coin back. They meet up, and instead of bringing back his coin, he will bring him some CAC sample slabs while saying my father’s coin is locked in a safe at another company location. It’s happened numerous times but my father in his older age and bad health doesn’t pursue it any further. I suggested he call the owner and stop dealing with shop minions as I’m certain the actual owner is clueless as to what’s going on.
Perhaps with your father’s advanced age and poor health, he would execute a POA giving you full authority to handle the situation on his behalf. You could then pursue accordingly.
Good luck and hoping for a good outcome!
My sister lives closer to him and she has POA. She’s a pushover who only cares about money and I wouldn’t trust my life or any coins with her. Heck, she has a PhD in child psychology and works for online video game apps finding ways to keep kids playing on phones. Completely unethical if you ask me, but that’s another topic for a different discussion.
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Definitely a bad situation, there. Since it sounds like your father is of sound mind, an attorney could draft another POA giving you full authority to handle just this case, leaving your sister’s POA intact, I believe.
Most states have elder abuse laws because the elderly are prime targets of scammers since they are particularly vulnerable. Law enforcement pursues these scammers aggressively.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Totally disagree. If an authorized PCGS dealer member is not returning coins submitted by a customer, PCGS should be made aware of the situation. Of course, this would be a last resort action if the dealer doesn't make things right.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@AlanSki Suggest that you contact this dealer and let him know about this thread. It may be enough to get him to take action to make things right with your father.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don’t think that should be a last resort. The dealer has already had more than enough time to return the coin. PCGS should be contacted immediately, in addition to other possible courses of action that have been mentioned.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Curiously, why don’t you call the owner? You don’t need power of attorney or anything else to do that.
Give him X number of days to return the coin. Let him know about this thread and tell him that if need be, you’ll be getting in touch with PCGS, the local police and an attorney.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would seek legal advice.
You disagree that calling PCGS is a lower level of action than filing a police report or mail fraud complaint? Really? Did you read all the words?
The reality is if Alanski simply listed here the dealer’s name, I suspect within 1-2 business days the entire situation would be resolved- especially if Mark Feld (or even myself) made one phone call to this So. CA dealer. Police, lawyers, Postal Inspectors, the FBI and the like - really not necessary if this dealer is a member of the PNG if I read that correctly. And, no doubt the dealer might have additional details to add some “flavor” to this very strange situation.
For that matter - Alanski could literally simply tell Mark or myself or any So CA dealer in good standing (in a private message) who this dealer is and I suspect the issue would likely be resolved in 1-2 business days).
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin (located in So. CA - quite possibly “down the street” from this dealer).
You are of course correct. When you said "the lowest action that could be taken", I interpreted that to mean "hitting the dealer below the belt".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Alhambra Coin. Dealers name David Hunt.
Grading services have no enforcement powers and they have much bigger issues to address rather than policing ethically-challenged member dealers. I've used the ANA mediation before as Skip recommended. State consumer rights can be effective, also something of a mediation/persuasion type force.
Is he or any of his employees active participants here?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Grabs popcorn, sits down to the show
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I am not certain but I do know they are on Instagram.
I’ll take extra butter, salt, and some freshly cracked pepper.
Well they’re a fairly big outfit….
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?"- Calvin and Hobbes
I know. That is part of the problem he is facing. IMO the issue is my father bought many coins from them over the last 20+ years. I believe they wanted to buy his collection back from him but my father gave it to me to sell on his behalf, which I’ve slowly been doing for 3 years. I can’t prove it, but I think it’s upset them since they can’t make money off of him twice. I don’t think the coin is around anymore, hence the delay in returning it.