What’s wrong with this coin? Long Beach Expo Newp

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renomedphys
renomedphys Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2, 2024 5:17PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Taking this one home from Long Beach today. See if you can guess the error. This is a serious question. I’m thinking the holder is in “error” as well.

Empty Nest Collection

Comments

  • Sunshine Rare Coins
    Sunshine Rare Coins Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2024 5:10PM
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    Just a little bit off... B) Great piece!

    Sunshine Rare Coins

    sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

  • Greenstang
    Greenstang Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It’s been double struck with a rotation.
    Can we see the other side

  • jacrispies
    jacrispies Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2024 5:30PM
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    Oh cool you bought this coin! I have seen it for a while, one of the most dramatic of all Classic US coin errors! Congrats on the wonderful piece.

    Edit:
    The error looks to be a double strike, 90 degree rotation with a post-strike obverse delamination.

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
    BHNC #AN-10
    JRCS #1606

  • scubafuel
    scubafuel Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Double stuck, rotated 90 degrees, with a strike thru on the second strike. From the pic I don’t think it’s a lamination.

  • renomedphys
    renomedphys Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry for the glare.

    Empty Nest Collection

  • renomedphys
    renomedphys Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Tom Reynolds and David McCarthy both said it’s a lamination and that was my take as well. JD said it looked like a strike-through but it’s really impossible to know, and Rick Snow said it looked post strike because of the remnant of the 1 in the first strike date. So really a conundrum? There does appear to be metal missing but honestly the edges are a lot softer than a delam void.

    Empty Nest Collection

  • scubafuel
    scubafuel Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That was my thinking. It is too smooth, especially at the edges to be lamination unless it wore down afterward. But the coin has too much detail for that.

  • scubafuel
    scubafuel Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The remnant of the 1 points to a strike thru as well I think. There are often design remnants under strike thrus.

  • Clackamas1
    Clackamas1 Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That is crazy. Double struck, off center, planchet flaws maybe a strike through.

  • vplite99
    vplite99 Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That's dramatic, thanks for posting.

    Vplite99
  • Steven59
    Steven59 Posts: 11,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    An amazing error coin. Looks like a lamination but WDIK.......

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • BLUEJAYWAY
    BLUEJAYWAY Posts: 11,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    A real smorgasbord error example I am in the delamination camp. Witness the far left vertical area. Has the jagged cracking,evidence of a delam. Must of been a large peel. At some point fallen off or removed. This is how I see it.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • pursuitofliberty
    pursuitofliberty Posts: 7,926 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nothing wrong with that coin ... at all! Thank you for sharing!

    Lovely example, for sure!! <3

    Fascinating too. I think I'm in the delamination camp ... the straight and clean edges in a couple of spots seem to suggest that more than a strike through.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2024 12:36AM
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    It looks like the first strike was the one that is oriented upright in the first picture.
    After that, a second strike was imparted and it was oriented about 90 degrees clockwise from the first.

    Now here is the interesting part. When the second strike impacted, there was probably a piece of wood laying on the coin.
    The die pressure caused the piece of wood to make an irregular dent in the coin.

    Note that the first "LIBERTY" is visible, but it is missing in the second strike. Why ?
    The piece of wood (or whatever it was) intercepted much of the force of the second strike, preventing the die from making full contact with the coin on the second strike.

    This is evidence that the depression is a strike-through and not a delamination.

    .

    Moonlight Mint
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:
    It looks like the first strike was the one that is oriented upright in the first picture.
    After that, a second strike was imparted and it was oriented about 90 degrees clockwise from the first.

    Now here is the interesting part. When the second strike impacted, there was probably a piece of wood laying on the coin.
    The die pressure caused the piece of wood to make an irregular dent in the coin.

    Note that the first "LIBERTY" is visible, but it is missing in the second strike. Why ?
    The piece of wood (or whatever it was) intercepted much of the force of the second strike, preventing the die from making full contact with the coin on the second strike.

    This is evidence that the depression is a strike-through and not a delamination.

    .

    You saved me some typing.

    As proof of Dan’s theory, please verify that the strongest areas on the reverse are opposite the indent in the metal, where the foreign object pushed the metal under it into the opposing die.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    P.S.: I would call the rotation about 70 degrees.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    not readily obvious to the little people. great explanation

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • semikeycollector
    semikeycollector Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I love this coin! It looks like the obverse is rotating in action,like the hand drawn frames of an old motion picture.

  • renomedphys
    renomedphys Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Does this help? This is the exact slab orientation with the reverse flipped over from the side (ie. not top to bottom as is the usual way I view coins)

    Empty Nest Collection

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Double struck in collar, with second strike rotated. The second strike appears to have been through wood.

    Coin Photography

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FlyingAl said:
    Double struck in collar, with second strike rotated. The second strike appears to have been through wood.

    I think these were struck without a collar.
    So perhaps the correct terminology would be: rotated double strike, with both strikes centered, and the second strike through debris.

    Moonlight Mint
  • jayPem
    jayPem Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Any chance that the bit of wood was struck intentionally?
    Perhaps a technique to tweak the position of the dies or something?

    Way out in left field here, but it crossed my mind, no such thing as a dumb question, right?
    🤪

  • jacrispies
    jacrispies Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I will keep an open mind if it is a strikethrough. From my observations, there is still observable weakness in TED in UNITED, and the left stem from the first reverse strike under ED that should have disappeared with excessive force from the strikethrough. Not strong enough evidence to prove a strikethrough in my opinion.

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
    BHNC #AN-10
    JRCS #1606

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2024 9:36AM
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    I’m not much for errors, but this one would have caused me to loose a few minutes in thought.

  • Catbert
    Catbert Posts: 8,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hannibal Lecter at work!

    Seated Half Society member #38

    "She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
    running like a water color in the rain...."
  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:

    @FlyingAl said:
    Double struck in collar, with second strike rotated. The second strike appears to have been through wood.

    I think these were struck without a collar.
    So perhaps the correct terminology would be: rotated double strike, with both strikes centered, and the second strike through debris.

    You are right. I forgot these were struck without collars. I fully agree with that assessment.

    Coin Photography

  • renomedphys
    renomedphys Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well here’s the big reveal. I doubt this will actually clear anything up.

    Empty Nest Collection

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