Interesting PWCC Sale Tonight - Topps Chrome Durant RC Orange PSA 10 - for how much?

Dragnet · January 25, 2024 11:41PM

Posted on Blowout also but anyone surprised by the sale tonight of this Durant Topps Chrome RC Orange in PSA 10? Here is the sale:

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/premier-auction/12744

Have attached the most recent sales dating back to the boom. That said, I couldn’t believe it went for what it did ($11,100). Less than 10% of the boom high! Whatever negative you want to say about the man, he is still #20 all time in win shares, and likely to rise (could very well see him retire in top 10 if he stays healthy), is a bonafide top 10 player of all time in his prime. Less not forget 14x AS’s, 2x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 4x Scoring Champion and one regular season MVP.

Would love to hear takes on this sale as a reflection of his status and what appears to be a potentially genius investment or something else that I clearly didn’t see..

miwlvrn · January 26, 2024 5:30AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but my initial reaction is that sounds like a high price for a card that has 199 copies out there.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 26, 2024 7:36AM

Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

Cakes · January 26, 2024 8:56AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

olb31 · January 26, 2024 8:56AM

Durant is a good player and after he won with the Warriors, everyone thought he would win several more, so the speculation began. The prices listed above seem off the chart to me. I have many but rarely paid over $20 -$50 for one.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 26, 2024 9:23AM

@Cakes said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

Off the top of my head, I think LeBron, Steph and Giannis and Jokic stand out in this era as guys who are all timers and good enough to potentially crack the top 25/50.

Durant and some of the others less so.

BLUEJAYWAY · January 26, 2024 10:15AM

He will have to "jump ship" out of Phoenix to win another ship.

Cakes · January 26, 2024 10:24AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Cakes said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

Off the top of my head, I think LeBron, Steph and Giannis and Jokic stand out in this era as guys who are all timers and good enough to potentially crack the top 25/50.

Durant and some of the others less so.

While I agree somewhat I just can't understand how you keep including Curry, but exclude Durant. Curry is basically a smaller version of Durant. GS won four titles and here are the finals MVP's: Iguodala, Durant, Durant, and Curry finally won it in 2022 after Durant left.

There is a general agreement on the current top 10 all time and out of those 10 only one wasn't a very good defender and that was Magic Johnson. Curry can't actually cover anyone, at best he jumps passing lanes to get easy steals.

To be far, I do like Curry and think is ability to fit in and mesh with any lineup is a huge plus. Most other alpha players like MJ or Kobe had to big of egos to ever do that.

RighteousRyezelle · January 26, 2024 12:30PM

Curry changed the way the game is played. All guards have to shoot 35%+ from 3 and have a quick release or they often get overlooked and don’t make rosters… unless they play amazing defense which requires long arms and above average NBA athleticism not to mention high NBA IQ. Every kid after 2010 started looking to Curry as idol. Just my opinion

Cakes · January 26, 2024 12:42PM

@RighteousRyezelle said:
Curry changed the way the game is played. All guards have to shoot 35%+ from 3 and have a quick release or they often get overlooked and don’t make rosters… unless they play amazing defense which requires long arms and above average NBA athleticism not to mention high NBA IQ. Every kid after 2010 started looking to Curry as idol. Just my opinion

But does that make him a better player than Durant? I agree he changed the game, Icon style, similar to Iverson but that is a different discussion.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/stephen_curry_vs_kevin_durant.htm

Dragnet · January 26, 2024 1:02PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

LOL. This is based on what? The “eye test” I’m guessing? Not sure how anyone can trust anything you say after that one.

Dragnet · January 26, 2024 1:04PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Cakes said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

Off the top of my head, I think LeBron, Steph and Giannis and Jokic stand out in this era as guys who are all timers and good enough to potentially crack the top 25/50.

Durant and some of the others less so.

Wait, are you now saying LeBron James is good enough to “potentially” crack the top 25/50 of all time?

It only gets better folks….

I love this guy!

Dragnet · January 26, 2024 1:07PM

@Cakes said:

@RighteousRyezelle said:
Curry changed the way the game is played. All guards have to shoot 35%+ from 3 and have a quick release or they often get overlooked and don’t make rosters… unless they play amazing defense which requires long arms and above average NBA athleticism not to mention high NBA IQ. Every kid after 2010 started looking to Curry as idol. Just my opinion

But does that make him a better player than Durant? I agree he changed the game, Icon style, similar to Iverson but that is a different discussion.

https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/stephen_curry_vs_kevin_durant.htm

That link and the stats therein speaks volumes I think when it comes to comparing the two. I honestly expected to see Steph outpace Durant in far more categories by significant more than he did..

1951WheatiesPremium · January 26, 2024 1:28PM

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

LOL. This is based on what? The “eye test” I’m guessing? Not sure how anyone can trust anything you say after that one.

No. This is based on watching forty plus years of basketball. But based on the comments, I don’t think you’re looking for any type of discussion.

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Cakes said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

Off the top of my head, I think LeBron, Steph and Giannis and Jokic stand out in this era as guys who are all timers and good enough to potentially crack the top 25/50.

Durant and some of the others less so.

Wait, are you now saying LeBron James is good enough to “potentially” crack the top 25/50 of all time?

It only gets better folks….

I love this guy!

I love you, too.

lahmejoon · January 26, 2024 2:00PM

Steph and Durant are definitely better than many players normally listed in various top 50 lists. Guys who frequent those lists include Reggie Miller, Paul Pierce, Anthonly Davis, Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Chris Paul, etc.

Dragnet · January 26, 2024 3:03PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

LOL. This is based on what? The “eye test” I’m guessing? Not sure how anyone can trust anything you say after that one.

No. This is based on watching forty plus years of basketball. But based on the comments, I don’t think you’re looking for any type of discussion.

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Cakes said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

Off the top of my head, I think LeBron, Steph and Giannis and Jokic stand out in this era as guys who are all timers and good enough to potentially crack the top 25/50.

Durant and some of the others less so.

Wait, are you now saying LeBron James is good enough to “potentially” crack the top 25/50 of all time?

It only gets better folks….

I love this guy!

I love you, too.

Does your 40 years of watching include any of the last 20 years? Honest question.

Another honest question -- where does LeBron James fit in your top 20 All-Time players?

Also curious who your All-Time Top 10 are.

I imagine those reading this thread would also love to hear these answers!

1951WheatiesPremium · January 26, 2024 3:28PM

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

LOL. This is based on what? The “eye test” I’m guessing? Not sure how anyone can trust anything you say after that one.

No. This is based on watching forty plus years of basketball. But based on the comments, I don’t think you’re looking for any type of discussion.

@Dragnet said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Cakes said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Kevin Durant is not a top ten player all time. He’s not even top 50. He’s a very talented and very flawed player.

And I happen to like his game a lot, too, so I’m not hating on him.

While I agree somewhat the exact same thing could be said about Steph Curry and dozens of other modern day players.

Off the top of my head, I think LeBron, Steph and Giannis and Jokic stand out in this era as guys who are all timers and good enough to potentially crack the top 25/50.

Durant and some of the others less so.

Wait, are you now saying LeBron James is good enough to “potentially” crack the top 25/50 of all time?

It only gets better folks….

I love this guy!

I love you, too.

Does your 40 years of watching include any of the last 20 years? Honest question.

Yes

Another honest question -- where does LeBron James fit in your top 20 All-Time players?

Perhaps #6?

Also curious who your All-Time Top 10 are.

This isn’t an ordered list:

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Tim Duncan
Larry Bird
LeBron James
Karl Malone
Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Magic Johnson

I imagine those reading this thread would also love to hear these answers!

I don’t think it’s too controversial of a list or a ‘hot take’ and I don’t think Kevin Durant is a better player than anyone listed.

How about you?

BBBrkrr · January 26, 2024 3:45PM

Dude. You gotta have Oscar Robertson on that list.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 26, 2024 5:21PM

@BBBrkrr said:
Dude. You gotta have Oscar Robertson on that list.

I want to - believe me.

But who should I bump?

craig44 · January 26, 2024 5:25PM

i would much rather have Olajuwon than tim duncan in my top 10 or my team

BBBrkrr · January 26, 2024 5:44PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@BBBrkrr said:
Dude. You gotta have Oscar Robertson on that list.

I want to - believe me.

But who should I bump?

I'd put him on ahead of Duncan or Malone (and I think both were great).

The Big O was dominant.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 26, 2024 5:57PM

@BBBrkrr said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@BBBrkrr said:
Dude. You gotta have Oscar Robertson on that list.

I want to - believe me.

But who should I bump?

I'd put him on ahead of Duncan or Malone (and I think both were great).

The Big O was dominant.

They were, too, and I think Big O and The Dream would be my 11-12.

And I won’t argue they ‘don’t belong’ because they are both very, very deserving players.

@Dragnet

Curious as to your thoughts since you brought some fire to the discussion and got my attention.

Who you got in your top 10?

galaxy27 · January 26, 2024 6:34PM

Durant can be douchey off the court, but he's a total freak show on it

dude is 7 feet tall and averaging almost 39% from downtown and a shade under 89% from the charity stripe for his entire career. when it's all said and done he's gonna be a top-5 scorer all time -- even with all the missed time due to injuries. watch any game of his and it becomes readily apparent that he's an unguardable 4.

i want to see any top-50 list that doesn't have his name on it

sayheywyo · January 27, 2024 3:43AM

If it was the same owner that purchased the card in 2018 for $7950 from PWCC maybe he/she was tired of watching the value drop and wanted out with a profit.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 27, 2024 5:03AM

@galaxy27 said:
Durant can be douchey off the court, but he's a total freak show on it

dude is 7 feet tall and averaging almost 39% from downtown and a shade under 89% from the charity stripe for his entire career. when it's all said and done he's gonna be a top-5 scorer all time -- even with all the missed time due to injuries. watch any game of his and it becomes readily apparent that he's an unguardable 4.

i want to see any top-50 list that doesn't have his name on it

Are we talking scorers or basketball players?

Kevin Durant is a great scorer and a great shooter. Easily top 50, likely top 25 and maybe even top ten scorer.

That’s only half of the game.

A seven foot tall player who is always on the court that grabs 7 rebounds a game, plays limited defense. I’minclined to take a more complete player when I have every pro player ever at my disposal.

KD scores prolific totals in a league that plays (comparatively) limited and much less physical defense. In addition, the three point shot has changed scoring totals and basketball strategy considerably. Dead eye shooters like Jerry West and Larry Bird would score more points, take more three pointers than they did in their careers.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 27, 2024 10:47AM

@galaxy27 said:
Durant can be douchey off the court, but he's a total freak show on it

dude is 7 feet tall and averaging almost 39% from downtown and a shade under 89% from the charity stripe for his entire career. when it's all said and done he's gonna be a top-5 scorer all time -- even with all the missed time due to injuries. watch any game of his and it becomes readily apparent that he's an unguardable 4.

i want to see any top-50 list that doesn't have his name on it

First, I want to emphasize that I like talking sports, I’m open to changing my mind and I’m not trying to ram my opinion down other people’s throats or to disparage anyone for having a different opinion.

From that starting point, this list would be a good starting point for a discussion on that topic, I think. It is well produced, it lists the players alphabetically and it covers the NBA from its inception until 1996. So anyone from the last 28 years, for the most part, is not on there. Yet.

So, if you start with guys like Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan who debuted right at that time (or shortly after) and didn’t make the list because they were not yet eligible and then factor in all the great players that came after, you then have to pull guys off that list and replace them. I think you’ll find that cracking the Top 10, the top 25 and the top 50 players of all time in NBA history just isn’t that easy.

Lastly, before you critique the list too much, it was compiled by the players themselves and a few people considered basketball ‘historians and experts’ - and the list of the voters is also included; it’s just below the top 50 list itself.

50 GREATEST PLAYERS IN NBA HISTORY
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Charles Barkley
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Dave Bing
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Bob Cousy
Dave Cowens
Billy Cunningham
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler
Julius Erving
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
George Gervin
Hal Greer
John Havlicek
Elvin Hayes
Magic Johnson
Sam Jones
Michael Jordan
Jerry Lucas
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Pete Maravich
Kevin McHale
George Mikan
Earl Monroe
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O’Neal
Robert Parish
Bob Pettit
Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Bill Russell
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Nate Thurmond
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens
James Worthy

Voters for the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (player), Marv Albert (media), Al Attles (team), Red Auerbach (team), Elgin Baylor (team), Dave Bing (player), Larry Bird (team), Marty Blake (team), Fran Blinebury (media), Bill Bradley (player), Hubie Brown (team), Wilt Chamberlain (player), Mitch Chortkoff (media), Bob Cousy (player), Billy Cunningham (team), Chuck Daly (team), David DuPree (media), Wayne Embry (team), Julius Erving (player), Joe Gilmartin (media), Sam Goldaper (media), Alex Hannum (team), Lester Harrison (team), John Havlicek (player), Chick Hearn (media), Red Holzman (team), Phil Jasner (media), Earvin Johnson (player), John Kerr (player), Leonard Koppet (media), Bob Lanier (player), Frank Layden (team), Leonard Lewin (media), Jack McCallum (media), Dick McGuire (team), George Mikan (player), Bob Pettit (player), Harvey Pollack (team), Jack Ramsay (team), Willis Reed (team), Oscar Robertson (player), Bill Russell (player), Bob Ryan (media), Dolph Schayes (player), Bill Sharman (player), Gene Shue (team), Isiah Thomas (team), Wes Unseld (team), Peter Vecsey (media), Jerry West (team)

Tabe · January 27, 2024 6:14PM

Yeah, that list of 50 is so easy to critique. Bill Walton? Sure, maybe if he'd actually played once in awhile. 468 total games, averaged 13 pts a game. Heck, he didn't even start for at least 1/4 of those 468 games. C'mon.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 27, 2024 7:08PM

@Tabe said:
Yeah, that list of 50 is so easy to critique. Bill Walton? Sure, maybe if he'd actually played once in awhile. 468 total games, averaged 13 pts a game. Heck, he didn't even start for at least 1/4 of those 468 games. C'mon.

Realistically, there’s probably 5-6 spots to open up without much issue. But after that, though, it gets very difficult.

If I’m being honest, it’s hard to reconcile the three point shot and it’s impact.

olb31 · January 28, 2024 10:50AM

1 - Russell
2 - Chamberlain
3 - Jordan
4 - Kareem
5 - Magic
6 - Kobe
7 - Lebron
8 - Larry
9 - Oscar
10 - Jerry
11 - Duncan
12 - Hakeem
13 - Shaq
14 - Karl
15 - Steph
16 - Dirk
17 - Dr J
18 - Moses
19 - Hondo
20 - Elvin

JolleyWrencher · January 28, 2024 11:22PM

How does the top 50 list not have Kobe on it?
I like that a few dream team players made the list.

Durant could go 1:1 with most on that list. In Phoenix, he is the center of the universe and not the Sun. He has his players back on the court, he can handle pressure situations, and his annoying shoulder twitch for his free throw routine seems to work. His career point total, triple doubles, double-doubles, season average, and career average is noteworthy.

He would probably be near the bottom of my top 25.

He's in my top 5 of active players.

Tabe · January 28, 2024 11:36PM

@JolleyWrencher said:
How does the top 50 list not have Kobe on it?

It's an ancient list that didn't include players who were active at the time.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 29, 2024 3:31AM

@Tabe said:

@JolleyWrencher said:
How does the top 50 list not have Kobe on it?

It's an ancient list that didn't include players who were active at the time.

That’s not accurate. There are several guys on that list who were still playing yet. There are several players on the list who were ‘active’ when the list came out. It would be like putting Victor Wembanyama on a list TODAY of the greatest 50 Players of All Time.

@JolleyWrencher

Kobe Bryant was in his rookie year the year the list came out. He average 7.6 points a game that year.

There are several players on the list who were active when it was produced. Several.

The list of 50 I put up there was produced by the NBA. It covers from beginning to 1996.

I guess my posts are too long to read…

1951WheatiesPremium · January 29, 2024 4:24AM

…so here’s a group of 20 guys that stand out (to me) who played the bulk of their careers post 1996.

It’s an unordered list of guys from that post ‘96 timeframe that jumped out off the top of my head. I’m probably missing a few players, potentially some easy ones, so please help out and add to it. Then we can probably merge the two lists and order them properly.

Allen Iverson
Vince Carter
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowitski
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dwayne Wade
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nikola Jokic
Chris Paul
Joel Embiid

miwlvrn · January 29, 2024 6:46AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
…so here’s a group of 20 guys that stand out (to me) who played the bulk of their careers post 1996.

It’s an unordered list of guys from that post ‘96 timeframe that jumped out off the top of my head. I’m probably missing a few players, potentially some easy ones, so please help out and add to it. Then we can probably merge the two lists and order them properly.

Allen Iverson
Vince Carter
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowitski
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dwayne Wade
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nikola Jokic
Chris Paul
Joel Embiid

Shaq and Rodman had some good years post 1996 too...

1951WheatiesPremium · January 29, 2024 7:43AM

@miwlvrn said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
…so here’s a group of 20 guys that stand out (to me) who played the bulk of their careers post 1996.

It’s an unordered list of guys from that post ‘96 timeframe that jumped out off the top of my head. I’m probably missing a few players, potentially some easy ones, so please help out and add to it. Then we can probably merge the two lists and order them properly.

Allen Iverson
Vince Carter
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowitski
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dwayne Wade
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nikola Jokic
Chris Paul
Joel Embiid

Shaq and Rodman had some good years post 1996 too...

So, Shaq made the original top 50; he was the youngest active player on that list.

Dennis Rodman was a solid player and already eligible but I’m not sure he’d make the list, anyway.

Cakes · January 29, 2024 8:28AM

@olb31 said:
1 - Russell
2 - Chamberlain
3 - Jordan
4 - Kareem
5 - Magic
6 - Kobe
7 - Lebron
8 - Larry
9 - Oscar
10 - Jerry
11 - Duncan
12 - Hakeem
13 - Shaq
14 - Karl
15 - Steph
16 - Dirk
17 - Dr J
18 - Moses
19 - Hondo
20 - Elvin

KD does everything Dirk can do...just better.

olb31 · January 29, 2024 8:52AM

KD is a very good player, but it just doesn't seem like when he is on a team, that the team gets a lot better. Maybe 5 years ago it did, but lately he just scores some. Some names not on my list who were probably better than Durant, Nash, Stockton, Pippen, Garnett, Pierce, Worthy, Chris Paul, Dominque, Mchale, maravich, isiah T, Dennis Johnson,

Durant reminds me of George Gervin, smooth, great shooter, and a great player.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 29, 2024 10:02AM

Kevin Durant is fabulous; let’s all make no mistake about that.

The fact that he’s in the discussion for best player of a generation is special, in and of itself. The Durantula certainly has earned himself a place in just about any top 100 player list, most top 50 lists, many top 25 lists and some top 10 lists, too. They’re opinion based, of course, so there is some anticipated disparity.

@Cakes

“To be far, I do like Curry and think is ability to fit in and mesh with any lineup is a huge plus. Most other alpha players like MJ or Kobe had to big of egos to ever do that.“

This is such an underrated quality and it’s probably why I would probably rate Curry ahead of Durant. The main goal of any player in a team sport is (or should be) to win the championship. Regardless of who the finals MVPs were, Steph has four rings to go with that MVP trophy and he won a title both before Durant arrived and after he left. To me, that speaks volumes.

As we’ve seen in many spots in the NBA, having 2 to 3 superstars is one thing and having them play and perform well together such that consistent winning occurs is another thing entirely.

craig44 · January 29, 2024 11:30AM

What is the argument for placing Duncan over Olajuwon? I watched both play and in their primes. Hakeem was a better offensive and defensive player and had a higher peak.

I also wonder why some would place Duncan over Shaq? is it because Shaq faded at a younger age? because prime shaq was much more of a force than prime timmy.

ArtVandelay · January 29, 2024 11:33AM

KD is probably the greatest offensive talent in the history of the NBA. He can do everything and is nearly unstoppable. He's a career 50/40/90 guy where people get excited about a player if they even achieve that in a single season. There's absolutely no question KD is a top 15 all-time player and should be in the top 10 when all is said and done.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 29, 2024 11:52AM

@craig44 said:
What is the argument for placing Duncan over Olajuwon? I watched both play and in their primes. Hakeem was a better offensive and defensive player and had a higher peak.

Well, they’re remarkably similar players statistically. I guess I have given the edge to Duncan because of his edge in rings (5 to 2), MVPs (2 to 1) and finals MVPs (3 to 2).

I also wonder why some would place Duncan over Shaq? is it because Shaq faded at a younger age?

I think that’s it. Prime Shaq turned to fat Shaq too soon.

because prime shaq was much more of a force than prime timmy.

I agree.

Tabe · January 30, 2024 8:22PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:

@JolleyWrencher said:
How does the top 50 list not have Kobe on it?

It's an ancient list that didn't include players who were active at the time.

That’s not accurate. There are several guys on that list who were still playing yet. There are several players on the list who were ‘active’ when the list came out. It would be like putting Victor Wembanyama on a list TODAY of the greatest 50 Players of All Time.

Yeah, my bad. Should've double-checked myself. It's still an ancient list.

Tabe · January 30, 2024 8:31PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

I think that’s it. Prime Shaq turned to fat Shaq too soon.

Shaq didn't fade nearly as fast as people think. He averaged 27.5 points in his 11th season. He averaged 20+ for fourteen years. He was definitely out of shape by the end of his LA tenure but 27.5 is still 27.5.

Meanwhile, Tim Duncan never averaged 27.5 even once let alone in his 11th year.

Duncan was an incredible player but Shaq and the Dream were both a LOT better.

1951WheatiesPremium · January 31, 2024 4:49AM

@Tabe said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Tabe said:

@JolleyWrencher said:
How does the top 50 list not have Kobe on it?

It's an ancient list that didn't include players who were active at the time.

That’s not accurate. There are several guys on that list who were still playing yet. There are several players on the list who were ‘active’ when the list came out. It would be like putting Victor Wembanyama on a list TODAY of the greatest 50 Players of All Time.

Yeah, my bad. Should've double-checked myself. It's still an ancient list.

The point in posting it was simply to make things easier, not end the discussion. We have a solid, league produced list to cover the first 50 years.

Now, we need a list for the last 28. Then we can merge and order the two lists and order them. I even started the list above. Who did I miss? (I’m sure I missed a few…)

Allen Iverson
Vince Carter
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowitski
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dwayne Wade
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nikola Jokic
Chris Paul
Joel Embiid

ArtVandelay · January 31, 2024 12:22PM

Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Tracy McGrady
Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kyrie Irving
Damien Lillard
Jayson Tatum
Luka Doncic

1951WheatiesPremium · February 1, 2024 4:15AM

The Top 38 from 1997-Present

Allen Iverson
Vince Carter
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Ray Allen
Dirk Nowitski
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Stephen Curry
Dwayne Wade
Russell Westbrook
James Harden
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nikola Jokic
Chris Paul
Joel Embiid
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Tracy McGrady
Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kyrie Irving
Damien Lillard
Jayson Tatum
Luka Doncic

We’re now 12 players away from a pretty solid Top 100 players of all time list.

FirstBeard · February 1, 2024 8:48AM

Dwight Howard
Klay Thompson
Kawhi Leonard
Blake Griffin
Draymond Green
Shawn Merion?
Stephon Marbury
Amari Stoudemire

Forgive my spelling. A few of these should make the cut. There was another guy the Clippers had, but I forget his name at the moment. Brand?

olb31 · February 1, 2024 9:29AM

Wheaties spells it out good. Nailed it in my opinion.

countdouglas · February 1, 2024 9:49AM

These are just names I'm throwing out, not specifically advocating. I've checked in on the thread intermittently, so perhaps they're on the list or have already been dismissed.

Drazen Petrovic
Alonzo Mourning
Manu Ginobli
Chris Mullins
Grant Hill

Cakes · February 1, 2024 10:21AM

You guys are thinking about this all wrong. Just because the Top 75 have been established that does not mean the next 25 have to come from the modern era. You still have to include the old timers that might have been numbers 76-100 at the time. If you do that half those guys will not and cannot make it and the players below will not make it.

Drazen Petrovic
Alonzo Mourning
Manu Ginobli
Chris Mullins
Grant Hill
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Shawn Merion
Stephon Marbury
Amari Stoudemire
Chris Bosh

countdouglas · February 1, 2024 10:29AM

@Cakes said:
You guys are thinking about this all wrong. Just because the Top 75 have been established that does not mean the next 25 have to come from the modern era. You still have to include the old timers that might have been numbers 76-100 at the time. If you do that half those guys will not and cannot make it and the players below will not make it.

Drazen Petrovic
Alonzo Mourning
Manu Ginobli
Chris Mullins
Grant Hill
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Shawn Merion
Stephon Marbury
Amari Stoudemire
Chris Bosh

I'm fine with those guys not making it. I wasn't advocating, just trying to come up with some additional "names" for the discussion. They may not even be considered as in the top 200, for all I know, and I really wouldn't care one bit.

Interesting PWCC Sale Tonight - Topps Chrome Durant RC Orange PSA 10 - for how much?

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