@gumby1234 said: @DeplorableDan If you think thats not a 63 look at the Morgan pic I posted above. Its in a 63 holder and clearly nowhere near mint state.
I've learned that with this game I need to often bump my actual guess up a point or two, especially with all these toned coins where you cant see the luster in the photo. That finally clicked for me that i needed to stop being too conservative, and since then my ranking has been going up a lot.
I think a lot of us are conservative by nature, especially for the series we collect. It helps us when buying, but doesn't necessarily help for grading.
It's also clear that grading from pictures long term is not feasible.
I was doing fair until I hit the 38S Daniel Boone BiCen. I saw the scratches on the face and the heavy rim ding and felt as it must have graded, I picked 63 and wow got smoked.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbroken said:
I was doing fair until I hit the 38S Daniel Boone BiCen. I saw the scratches on the face and the heavy rim ding and felt as it must have graded, I picked 63 and wow got smoked.
Jim
I saw a Daniel Boone commemorative on there with heavy scratches/abrasions that looked like raccoon eyes. Since details grade is not an option, I guessed AU-58 (due to the wear around the eyes) as the rest of the coin looked great and got the dreaded 0 point red screen.
Since some people are consistently doing quite well, it is a reasonable conclusion that those who are complaining about poorly graded coins are simply at a lower skill level than they would have themselves believe. The coins posted in this thread do not look inaccurately graded from what I can tell. The Morgan, for example, has a soft strike but no wear. This could be an opportunity to learn.
@You said:
Since some people are consistently doing quite well, it is a reasonable conclusion that those who are complaining about poorly graded coins are simply at a lower skill level than they would have themselves believe. The coins posted in this thread do not look inaccurately graded from what I can tell. The Morgan, for example, has a soft strike but no wear. This could be an opportunity to learn.
I can agree with at least half of this. I'm averaging a little under 50%. A lot of this is due to gold grading, as I am very bad with those. I'm pretty decent with Morgans and I have seen a few of these that I think are not graded correctly, especially when it deals with contact marks. Weak strikes are another issue. Hard for me to tell weak strikes from wear and I'm sure for a lot of us, that can get confusing unless you're able to research specific years and mints. When I see two coins of same series, one looks worn and is graded MS, one looks nicely detailed and is graded AU, I have to question Strike vs Wear. Thumbed coins are not weak strike either, and I have seen some of these in MS. I think it's fun though guessing and as already stated, grading by pictures is never accurate. Another reason why we have fun with the GTG threads here.
So far I have learned that grading Morgan and Peace dollars is like riding a bike. Haven't bought one in 30 years but score high or perfect almost every time.
I am some kind of savant with gold. I am ignorant, hardly ever even seen a piece in real life and keep racking up perfect scores.
I could probably jump 50 points in the rankings if they removed comem. coins. No idea what I am looking at. Get a zero score every time and the computer seems to think it funny to hit me with comem coins 3 and 4 in a row. how can a comem be circulated? People spent these?
James
@You said:
Since some people are consistently doing quite well, it is a reasonable conclusion that those who are complaining about poorly graded coins are simply at a lower skill level than they would have themselves believe. The coins posted in this thread do not look inaccurately graded from what I can tell. The Morgan, for example, has a soft strike but no wear. This could be an opportunity to learn.
Im doing quite well with accuracy now, over 60%, but every once in a while i get the dreaded red "0" because of a coin like this. Can someone explain how this is a 67+? Its got numerous abrasions all over the obverse portrait and a big streak in the reverse field, I graded this a 64+. It seems like anything with wild color auctomatically gets a 2+ point bonus. Am i missing something, is it unstruck planchet?
I know what you are saying about abrasion points deplorableDan. I do not collect uncirculated coins but I have collected circulated Seated coins for over 25 years.
I rarely get any points on the uncirculated Seated coins because I can see obvious wear in numerous spots (And exactly where it should be) but will get zero points because the coin is high grade uncirculated. I am truly beginning to wonder if actual uncirculated Seated coins exist. I have seen maybe 2. James
@You said:
Since some people are consistently doing quite well, it is a reasonable conclusion that those who are complaining about poorly graded coins are simply at a lower skill level than they would have themselves believe. The coins posted in this thread do not look inaccurately graded from what I can tell. The Morgan, for example, has a soft strike but no wear. This could be an opportunity to learn.
Im doing quite well with accuracy now, over 60%, but every once in a while i get the dreaded red "0" because of a coin like this. Can someone explain how this is a 67+? Its got numerous abrasions all over the obverse portrait and a big streak in the reverse field, I graded this a 64+. It seems like anything with wild color auctomatically gets a 2+ point bonus. Am i missing something, is it unstruck planchet?
For these later Commems the designs of the coins make it harder to see hits unless they are huge. For the Washington-Carver specifically, the obverse is good at masking hits (face/hair especially). As long as the cheek is relatively clean, fields are clean, booming luster and/or color it'll get a high grade. On the reverse you pretty much look at the fields and the USA outline.
I can't really see any nicks on the reverse so I'm not surprised at a 7+. Don't blame yourself, these are beauty shots after all, and it's a great pic that brings the color out. In hand it will be obviously darker unless you put it under a lamp.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
@bigjpst said:
Really cool game. Brought me back to Mycollect after not being on for a bit. The gold is crushing my score. Every one I think is AU is MS and vice versa. I'll stick with silver coins.
My problem also.
I will have to find a great reference book on how to grade gold.
I find myself zooming in on gold coins on eBay (with no intention of buying) to see if I can find some consistency for the grade shown. lol
I am floating around 44% acuracy on just under 600 coins viewed.
Wayne
My trick for gold is to bump it a point across the board. Gold is soft and tends to chatter up quickly.
For Saint Gaudens with light bag wear, ignore the central design and grade the fields only. Incuse indians are tough to grade by 2-D photos especially in the AU range.
I am averaging about 70% with over 250 coins graded and have a goal to be top 5.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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My problem with the gold is I don’t see any real consistency. Aside from the AU/ MS issue. Most of the large gold coins I see with seemingly decent fields end up being MS62 and the coins I think look MS 62 with tons of chatter are 63-64. I haven’t graded that many coins yet, but I’m about 58% right now.
@SilverAge3 said:
I'm also getting destroyed on commemorative pieces. So many look so trashed, imo, but get stellar scores.
I seem to most accurate on Commems and Lincoln cents. I collect neither. Have never collected either. And very rarely buy them for resale. I am surprised at myself that I'm also way off on the circulated type coins. There was a seated dollar that looked AU 55 and was XF45. Wish my XF 45 Seated dollars were as nice.
@SilverAge3 said:
I'm also getting destroyed on commemorative pieces. So many look so trashed, imo, but get stellar scores.
I seem to most accurate on Commems and Lincoln cents. I collect neither. Have never collected either. And very rarely buy them for resale. I am surprised at myself that I'm also way off on the circulated type coins. There was a seated dollar that looked AU 55 and was XF45. Wish my XF 45 Seated dollars were as nice.
XF45 is a funny grade, often interchangeable with AU53.
@messydesk, totally off topic, but I saw you have a link in sig to killer British T$ collection. I'd love to assemble one like that, but going to finish off the Ed VII florins first (both designed by same person, and I always thought they shared stylistic similarity even before knowing this).
@SilverAge3 said:
I'm also getting destroyed on commemorative pieces. So many look so trashed, imo, but get stellar scores.
I seem to most accurate on Commems and Lincoln cents. I collect neither. Have never collected either. And very rarely buy them for resale. I am surprised at myself that I'm also way off on the circulated type coins. There was a seated dollar that looked AU 55 and was XF45. Wish my XF 45 Seated dollars were as nice.
XF45 is a funny grade, often interchangeable with AU53.
I get it. Tough to make some of these calls through pictures because AU coin with dull fields could drop to XF, but the coin I’m talking about looked like an semi pl AU too much field scuffing and chatter to be 58. Definitely learning a lot. Also very humbling.
Would be fun if eventually they did another with NGC coins. And CACG
I decided to try it out earlier and now I'm wondering where the last hour went.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
I'm really struggling with AU58 vs. MS62-63 especially for gold. That's my Kryptonite in this. I'm leaning toward AU, but the grades say otherwise, probably because I'm being technical. The thread on this last week explains it really well.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
I have done approximately 1000 coins with about 47% accuracy.
Gold is still my Achilles' heel.
It is nice to see that I am not alone when it comes to grading these.
I also lose some points when trying to decipher the red brown / brown attribute when doing Indian heads.
I am nailing the Kennedys.
I am still having a lot fun.
Really enjoying this quite a bit. I've confirmed that I am an average, middle of the pack grader and have a lot to learn. Given that most of the people on MyCollect are serious collectors and dealers, I feel pretty good about it and frankly am not that surprised!
I thought having larger pictures would improve my accuracy. Wrong. I still get most of the Morgan's right but I have cut my standing in half using the larger pictures. I am not sure if the oversize pictures made me over emphasize things. Or I am some fuddy duddy living in the past man! Using grading standards that never existed.
However, just for kicks I started writing on a piece of paper my grade and then I invented an imaginary grader I call Jerry. Jerry doesn't care if a coin has 6 or more wear spots. anything shiny is 66 or better. On the other hand Jerry thinks the worst thing that can happen to a coin is that people used it. On obvious circulated coins deduct 1 to 2 full steps in grade. using this approach I scored 16 18 or 20 point scores out of 24 coins. lol James
I can’t gtg without seeing the whole coin, but that’s just how those come, they get more leniency with stacking and the flatness in the face. Probably a gem grade.
Looks like that may be a 1908 No Motto - so I'd say MS66.
Its graded 66+. No wonder my gold scores are so bad. I don't give anything looking that badly a grade like that. Thats an AU coin in my book all day long.
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For most gold, I have learned to mostly ignore what looks like rub/wear on the high points of the devices, and focus mainly on the overall luster and the ammount/severity of strikes. What really gets me are some of those old gold coins that look like a 50 to me, but but end up graded 61/62. Some of them have almost no luster left.
I've learned quite a bit in just this short time about how PCGS grades gold. Haven't had too many au/unc misses lately. Still a few. I've been trying to spend only 20-30 seconds max on each coin. Any more than that and I start to second guess myself and many times I'll think "looks like a MS64" then change my mind only to find I was right in my original opinion.
That being said, I've started to do much better when I started thinking more about how I think PCGS will grade the coin, not neccessarily what I think it should grade. Sometimes those numbers are the same, but for some of the coins our standards are different. But the TPG's set the market standard, so I think it's definitely helpful if we understand that.
Like I previously mentioned, this would be very interesting if they did an NGC and as coins come to market a CACG GTG.
Looks like that may be a 1908 No Motto - so I'd say MS66.
Its graded 66+. No wonder my gold scores are so bad. I don't give anything looking that badly a grade like that. Thats an AU coin in my book all day long.
I am doing well grading the gold coins, but personally I would avoid purchasing that particular coin for my set due to the smushed nose.
After starting off strong in the upper 50s for my accuracy, my score plummeted down into the lower 40s. So I took a few days off and then started playing again and just now got back up to 50% accuracy. I’ll stop now for a while, don’t want to risk dropping back down into the 40s again so soon. I’m getting better and now rarely more than 1 grade off, today at least
Comments
I think a lot of us are conservative by nature, especially for the series we collect. It helps us when buying, but doesn't necessarily help for grading.
It's also clear that grading from pictures long term is not feasible.
Coin Photographer.
@FlyingAl Im actually doing really well on the series I collect or have collected.
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I was doing fair until I hit the 38S Daniel Boone BiCen. I saw the scratches on the face and the heavy rim ding and felt as it must have graded, I picked 63 and wow got smoked.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I saw a Daniel Boone commemorative on there with heavy scratches/abrasions that looked like raccoon eyes. Since details grade is not an option, I guessed AU-58 (due to the wear around the eyes) as the rest of the coin looked great and got the dreaded 0 point red screen.
After that shocker I gave up.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Fun and very addictive. Maddening when you encounter the many poorly graded coins.
Doug
Since some people are consistently doing quite well, it is a reasonable conclusion that those who are complaining about poorly graded coins are simply at a lower skill level than they would have themselves believe. The coins posted in this thread do not look inaccurately graded from what I can tell. The Morgan, for example, has a soft strike but no wear. This could be an opportunity to learn.
I can agree with at least half of this. I'm averaging a little under 50%. A lot of this is due to gold grading, as I am very bad with those. I'm pretty decent with Morgans and I have seen a few of these that I think are not graded correctly, especially when it deals with contact marks. Weak strikes are another issue. Hard for me to tell weak strikes from wear and I'm sure for a lot of us, that can get confusing unless you're able to research specific years and mints. When I see two coins of same series, one looks worn and is graded MS, one looks nicely detailed and is graded AU, I have to question Strike vs Wear. Thumbed coins are not weak strike either, and I have seen some of these in MS. I think it's fun though guessing and as already stated, grading by pictures is never accurate. Another reason why we have fun with the GTG threads here.
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So far I have learned that grading Morgan and Peace dollars is like riding a bike. Haven't bought one in 30 years but score high or perfect almost every time.
I am some kind of savant with gold. I am ignorant, hardly ever even seen a piece in real life and keep racking up perfect scores.
I could probably jump 50 points in the rankings if they removed comem. coins. No idea what I am looking at. Get a zero score every time and the computer seems to think it funny to hit me with comem coins 3 and 4 in a row. how can a comem be circulated? People spent these?
James
Im doing quite well with accuracy now, over 60%, but every once in a while i get the dreaded red "0" because of a coin like this. Can someone explain how this is a 67+? Its got numerous abrasions all over the obverse portrait and a big streak in the reverse field, I graded this a 64+. It seems like anything with wild color auctomatically gets a 2+ point bonus. Am i missing something, is it unstruck planchet?
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I know what you are saying about abrasion points deplorableDan. I do not collect uncirculated coins but I have collected circulated Seated coins for over 25 years.
I rarely get any points on the uncirculated Seated coins because I can see obvious wear in numerous spots (And exactly where it should be) but will get zero points because the coin is high grade uncirculated. I am truly beginning to wonder if actual uncirculated Seated coins exist. I have seen maybe 2. James
For these later Commems the designs of the coins make it harder to see hits unless they are huge. For the Washington-Carver specifically, the obverse is good at masking hits (face/hair especially). As long as the cheek is relatively clean, fields are clean, booming luster and/or color it'll get a high grade. On the reverse you pretty much look at the fields and the USA outline.
I can't really see any nicks on the reverse so I'm not surprised at a 7+. Don't blame yourself, these are beauty shots after all, and it's a great pic that brings the color out. In hand it will be obviously darker unless you put it under a lamp.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
My problem also.
I will have to find a great reference book on how to grade gold.
I find myself zooming in on gold coins on eBay (with no intention of buying) to see if I can find some consistency for the grade shown. lol
I am floating around 44% acuracy on just under 600 coins viewed.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
My trick for gold is to bump it a point across the board. Gold is soft and tends to chatter up quickly.
For Saint Gaudens with light bag wear, ignore the central design and grade the fields only. Incuse indians are tough to grade by 2-D photos especially in the AU range.
I am averaging about 70% with over 250 coins graded and have a goal to be top 5.
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
My problem with the gold is I don’t see any real consistency. Aside from the AU/ MS issue. Most of the large gold coins I see with seemingly decent fields end up being MS62 and the coins I think look MS 62 with tons of chatter are 63-64. I haven’t graded that many coins yet, but I’m about 58% right now.
My Ebay Store
Gold is absolutely killing my average. Almost every time I grade a gold coin 62 its a 58 and when I grade one 58 its a 63.
It would be cool if there was a graph for each participant showing how many green teal yellow red etc for the exact grade, 1 point off etc.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
It’s nice to know the people arguing for large changes in grading can’t grade.
I'm also getting destroyed on commemorative pieces. So many look so trashed, imo, but get stellar scores.
I seem to most accurate on Commems and Lincoln cents. I collect neither. Have never collected either. And very rarely buy them for resale. I am surprised at myself that I'm also way off on the circulated type coins. There was a seated dollar that looked AU 55 and was XF45. Wish my XF 45 Seated dollars were as nice.
My Ebay Store
XF45 is a funny grade, often interchangeable with AU53.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
@messydesk, totally off topic, but I saw you have a link in sig to killer British T$ collection. I'd love to assemble one like that, but going to finish off the Ed VII florins first (both designed by same person, and I always thought they shared stylistic similarity even before knowing this).
I get it. Tough to make some of these calls through pictures because AU coin with dull fields could drop to XF, but the coin I’m talking about looked like an semi pl AU too much field scuffing and chatter to be 58. Definitely learning a lot. Also very humbling.
Would be fun if eventually they did another with NGC coins. And CACG
My Ebay Store
Guess the era it was graded....
I decided to try it out earlier and now I'm wondering where the last hour went.
We're about to announce weekly GTG Anonymous meetings.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
64 for both of these? Really? these are the ones killing my scores 🤬
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Market grading at its finest.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I'd call the first a 3 and the second a 4. Could be a lot worse!
I got roasted by that spotted proof Washington quarter. That ones gotta go lol.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Yea, i'm just tighter on those then. Im at 2 on the first one, and barely a 3 on the second. The second is not as egregious though.
Agree that the spotted proof coins are really tricky.
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I think somebody else already mentioned it, but when grading gold from pics, I just treat it like silver and add a point. Works pretty dang well.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Since one player is already over 3000 coins, we're going to work on adding another 1000 coins.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Hope its ok to use your photos. But how is this straight graded and UNC?!
My Ebay Store
I'm really struggling with AU58 vs. MS62-63 especially for gold. That's my Kryptonite in this. I'm leaning toward AU, but the grades say otherwise, probably because I'm being technical. The thread on this last week explains it really well.
I have done approximately 1000 coins with about 47% accuracy.
Gold is still my Achilles' heel.
It is nice to see that I am not alone when it comes to grading these.
I also lose some points when trying to decipher the red brown / brown attribute when doing Indian heads.
I am nailing the Kennedys.
I am still having a lot fun.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I think I got that one wrong too. I guessed 58, I believe it’s in a 63 holder?
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Really enjoying this quite a bit. I've confirmed that I am an average, middle of the pack grader and have a lot to learn. Given that most of the people on MyCollect are serious collectors and dealers, I feel pretty good about it and frankly am not that surprised!
I think I guessed 55, with all the chatter under the Indian's chin and what looks like Graffiti on the reverse.
My Ebay Store
I thought having larger pictures would improve my accuracy. Wrong. I still get most of the Morgan's right but I have cut my standing in half using the larger pictures. I am not sure if the oversize pictures made me over emphasize things. Or I am some fuddy duddy living in the past man! Using grading standards that never existed.
However, just for kicks I started writing on a piece of paper my grade and then I invented an imaginary grader I call Jerry. Jerry doesn't care if a coin has 6 or more wear spots. anything shiny is 66 or better. On the other hand Jerry thinks the worst thing that can happen to a coin is that people used it. On obvious circulated coins deduct 1 to 2 full steps in grade. using this approach I scored 16 18 or 20 point scores out of 24 coins. lol James
I agree. Have had a couple of these and they are brutal. On 2 1/2 Indian gold I pretty much know if it looks UNC, likely AU and vice versa.
Talk about gold killing peoples scores? Any guesses what this graded?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
@gumby1234
Looks like that may be a 1908 No Motto - so I'd say MS66.
Coin Photographer.
I can’t gtg without seeing the whole coin, but that’s just how those come, they get more leniency with stacking and the flatness in the face. Probably a gem grade.
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Its graded 66+. No wonder my gold scores are so bad. I don't give anything looking that badly a grade like that. Thats an AU coin in my book all day long.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
For most gold, I have learned to mostly ignore what looks like rub/wear on the high points of the devices, and focus mainly on the overall luster and the ammount/severity of strikes. What really gets me are some of those old gold coins that look like a 50 to me, but but end up graded 61/62. Some of them have almost no luster left.
I've learned quite a bit in just this short time about how PCGS grades gold. Haven't had too many au/unc misses lately. Still a few. I've been trying to spend only 20-30 seconds max on each coin. Any more than that and I start to second guess myself and many times I'll think "looks like a MS64" then change my mind only to find I was right in my original opinion.
That being said, I've started to do much better when I started thinking more about how I think PCGS will grade the coin, not neccessarily what I think it should grade. Sometimes those numbers are the same, but for some of the coins our standards are different. But the TPG's set the market standard, so I think it's definitely helpful if we understand that.
Like I previously mentioned, this would be very interesting if they did an NGC and as coins come to market a CACG GTG.
My Ebay Store
I am doing well grading the gold coins, but personally I would avoid purchasing that particular coin for my set due to the smushed nose.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
I'll need to log back in and check this out! Sounds like fun.
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Considering how many gokd coins I got a big red screen on. I think I'm doing ok.
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After starting off strong in the upper 50s for my accuracy, my score plummeted down into the lower 40s. So I took a few days off and then started playing again and just now got back up to 50% accuracy. I’ll stop now for a while, don’t want to risk dropping back down into the 40s again so soon. I’m getting better and now rarely more than 1 grade off, today at least
Mr_Spud
I just got over 60% - think I will quit while I am ahead (for me)
Just broke onto the top 100
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM