<< <i>Does anyone here actually use PCI or buy their coins other than as treating them as if they were raw? Does anyone here really care who bought PCI? >>
Our shop sent some items in about 1992. Very tough grading at the time. We have not used them since that time, but have always hunted for old holdered PCI coins at shows, as they are often priced very cheap for the quality of coins in them. We don't play crackout, and simply sold them as is for a nice profit for us and a bargain for our buyers.
The gold holdered coins are graded more liberally, but certainly nowhere near as dangerous as buying a raw coin. I know what a gold holdered MS65 common Morgan looks like, what it's worth (about $65), what I can ship it for sight unseen, as they are traded on the Bluesheet. The 16-d dimes, 09-svdb, 14-D, & 31-S cents, as well as US gold that we have seen (old and gold label) have been genuine, and the circulated stuff is graded about right. Most of the "hold your breath and hope it's real" risk factor is removed with PCI slabs, so in that case we consider them better than raw coins.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>The green label PCI slabs shouldn't be confused with the gold label PCI slabs. Two different owners and two different grading standards. The coins in the green label PCI slabs were fairly conservatively graded and are definitely worth considering. >>
That fits my coin. It's labeled MS62 but is easily an MS64 all day long at PCGS. I think I'll keep it in the PCI plastic though anyway.
<< <i>The green label PCI slabs shouldn't be confused with the gold label PCI slabs. Two different owners and two different grading standards. The coins in the green label PCI slabs were fairly conservatively graded and are definitely worth considering. >>
That fits my coin. It's labeled MS62 but is easily an MS64 all day long at PCGS. I think I'll keep it in the PCI plastic though anyway. >>
I do believe I'd rather have a Tucker automobile than a Cadillac of the same era. With PCI changing ownership, you likely will have a major collectible, in time... as will many others.
I don't usually look at third world slabs at coin shows but I looked at a gold label PCI MS64 Lib double eagle. It had full flashy luster and minimum marks and looked properly graded when initially examined. When examined more closely, there were many fine hairlines all going in the same direction. There is no way that coin would be slabbed by a top tier slabbing company. If you buy PCI or other third world slabs, be very careful.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Any truth to the saying that the old 10 digit green label PCI holders with PQ after the grade are good candidates for a possible PCGS upgrade? >>
I do not think they are any better ( or worse ) than the newer slabs marked PQ or not, they are all worth a look. It seems of coins that I looked at and sent back ICG was on top of the list. As everyone says buy the coin, not the plastic.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
You can’t put a 67 coin in a 68 holder and expect to be around for the long haul.
Yet, you could do the opposite and build an empire. No disrespect on either, respect is earned, not to mention deserved.
PCGS is not a mistake only the juiciest steak
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
I only bought a couple coins in these holders. Did manage to cross a 1911-S half eagle in a PCI 62 holder to a PCGS 62 holder, not too shabby.
They were hit and miss. Quite a few of the older PCI grades were VERY conservative.
I bought a 1961-D Franklin in a PCI 64 holder for chump change and got it in a PCGS 66FBL holder.
This was when they were going for strong money.
It was a nice coin....all there.
Nice bump @Zoins! I went around digging up old PCI 10-digit green labels years ago after reading some threads like this. Here are a few of my favorites, what do you guys think of the grading?
@mothra454 said:
Nice bump @Zoins! I went around digging up old PCI 10-digit green labels years ago after reading some threads like this. Here are a few of my favorites, what do you guys think of the grading?
I notice , Rick Tomaska signature?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Yep. From what I have gathered, this was part of signature series of graded coins where certain experts like Rick were paid to grade coins in their specialty. I don't know if the signature is printed on all the labels or hand signed. Anyone else have any info on this?
Yep. From what I have gathered, this was part of signature series of graded coins where certain experts like Rick were paid to grade coins in their specialty. I don't know if the signature is printed on all the labels or hand signed. Anyone else have any info on this?
Here is some interesting info from Conder via an old thread. Some of these appear to have been printed without the expert even seeing the coin!
"That is an older slab. It was what PCI called their Signature series where for a extra fee the coin would be examined by a recognized expert in that particular series. For the older series attrigutions would be provided as well. I'm not sure of the actual starting date but it was circa 1996. Less than two months after the service began several of their experts started running advertisments in the trade papers (coin World etc.) stating that effective immediately they were no longer connected in any way with PCI. When I asked some of them what happened they explained that PCI was holdering the coins and placing their signatures on them but they were not sending the coins to them for examination! The experts never saw the coins being shiped out with their signatures (and reputaions) on them. The signature series slab almost immediately died. Total production time was about two months and since is was only part of their submittals, total slab production was probably lss than 15,000 slabs. Most of which have probably been cracked out."
Here is some interesting info from Conder via an old thread. Some of these appear to have been printed without the expert even seeing the coin!
"That is an older slab. It was what PCI called their Signature series where for a extra fee the coin would be examined by a recognized expert in that particular series. For the older series attrigutions would be provided as well. I'm not sure of the actual starting date but it was circa 1996. Less than two months after the service began several of their experts started running advertisments in the trade papers (coin World etc.) stating that effective immediately they were no longer connected in any way with PCI. When I asked some of them what happened they explained that PCI was holdering the coins and placing their signatures on them but they were not sending the coins to them for examination! The experts never saw the coins being shiped out with their signatures (and reputaions) on them. The signature series slab almost immediately died. Total production time was about two months and since is was only part of their submittals, total slab production was probably lss than 15,000 slabs. Most of which have probably been cracked out."
Here is some interesting info from Conder via an old thread. Some of these appear to have been printed without the expert even seeing the coin!
"That is an older slab. It was what PCI called their Signature series where for a extra fee the coin would be examined by a recognized expert in that particular series. For the older series attrigutions would be provided as well. I'm not sure of the actual starting date but it was circa 1996. Less than two months after the service began several of their experts started running advertisments in the trade papers (coin World etc.) stating that effective immediately they were no longer connected in any way with PCI. When I asked some of them what happened they explained that PCI was holdering the coins and placing their signatures on them but they were not sending the coins to them for examination! The experts never saw the coins being shiped out with their signatures (and reputaions) on them. The signature series slab almost immediately died. Total production time was about two months and since is was only part of their submittals, total slab production was probably lss than 15,000 slabs. Most of which have probably been cracked out."
They have a decent premium above what many of the common dated coins would sell for in a generic slab (even from the top 4 grading companies). They aren't the rarest of slabs, but they certainly aren't common.
@U1chicago said:
They have a decent premium above what many of the common dated coins would sell for in a generic slab (even from the top 4 grading companies). They aren't the rarest of slabs, but they certainly aren't common.
It's nice to know that some people value the old holders as well as the coins because I find them and their history very interesting too. I just watched an interview with the founders of PCGS on Youtube and it was really enlightening!
I have been sending a lot of the old PCI green 10 digit holders to PCGS. Almost every coin has came back the same grade or higher. At FUN, I was talking with a guy that was a grader at PCI at that time. The graders were told to be very tough with the grading and they were. I could post many but I'll just do a few. This first one is actually from an old ACG holder.
ACG PF-64. PCGS PR-66 RB
I have many more still in the process of being graded but I'll stop there unless folks wish to see more of the results.
To me PCI was doing a pretty good job back in those days.
Comments
<< <i>Does anyone here actually use PCI or buy their coins other than as treating them as if they were raw? Does anyone here really care who bought PCI? >>
Our shop sent some items in about 1992. Very tough grading at the time. We have not used them since that time, but have always hunted for old holdered PCI coins at shows, as they are often priced very cheap for the quality of coins in them. We don't play crackout, and simply sold them as is for a nice profit for us and a bargain for our buyers.
The gold holdered coins are graded more liberally, but certainly nowhere near as dangerous as buying a raw coin. I know what a gold holdered MS65 common Morgan looks like, what it's worth (about $65), what I can ship it for sight unseen, as they are traded on the Bluesheet. The 16-d dimes, 09-svdb, 14-D, & 31-S cents, as well as US gold that we have seen (old and gold label) have been genuine, and the circulated stuff is graded about right. Most of the "hold your breath and hope it's real" risk factor is removed with PCI slabs, so in that case we consider them better than raw coins.
<< <i>The green label PCI slabs shouldn't be confused with the gold label PCI slabs. Two different owners and two different grading standards. The coins in the green label PCI slabs were fairly conservatively graded and are definitely worth considering. >>
That fits my coin. It's labeled MS62 but is easily an MS64 all day long at PCGS. I think I'll keep it in the PCI plastic though anyway.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
1881-CC Purchased in PCI-64 (Green Border Holder) that Crossed to PCGS-64
Original Thread Link for Reference
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>
<< <i>The green label PCI slabs shouldn't be confused with the gold label PCI slabs. Two different owners and two different grading standards. The coins in the green label PCI slabs were fairly conservatively graded and are definitely worth considering. >>
That fits my coin. It's labeled MS62 but is easily an MS64 all day long at PCGS. I think I'll keep it in the PCI plastic though anyway. >>
I do believe I'd rather have a Tucker automobile than a Cadillac of the same era. With PCI changing ownership, you likely will have a major collectible, in time... as will many others.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Any truth to the saying that the old 10 digit green label PCI holders with PQ after the grade are good candidates for a possible PCGS upgrade? >>
I do not think they are any better ( or worse ) than the newer slabs marked PQ or not, they are all worth a look. It seems of coins that I looked at and sent back ICG was on top of the list. As everyone says buy the coin, not the plastic.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Bump
Great samples Herb @ibzman350!
I love the handwritten "Sample".
I also noticed the years and denominations don't match.
A great set of samples for our coin collecting history!
Here are the photos arranged together.
“Problem Coin Inside!”
I only bought a couple coins in these holders. Did manage to cross a 1911-S half eagle in a PCI 62 holder to a PCGS 62 holder, not too shabby.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I still have a 10 digit red border PCI coin in my collection, it's a whizzed 1871 2 Cent Piece.
It's actually quite a nice coin IMHO.
Talk about a great idea with no fricking idea! Looks like they copied NGC.
Which is a Copy to begin with, right?
You can’t put a 67 coin in a 68 holder and expect to be around for the long haul.
Yet, you could do the opposite and build an empire. No disrespect on either, respect is earned, not to mention deserved.
PCGS is not a mistake only the juiciest steak
They were hit and miss. Quite a few of the older PCI grades were VERY conservative.
I bought a 1961-D Franklin in a PCI 64 holder for chump change and got it in a PCGS 66FBL holder.
This was when they were going for strong money.
It was a nice coin....all there.
I bought a pci 1919 lincoln this morning from a flea market dealer, and took it to my shop and made a profit!!
Score!
Nice bump @Zoins! I went around digging up old PCI 10-digit green labels years ago after reading some threads like this. Here are a few of my favorites, what do you guys think of the grading?
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
Besides the coins on these old threads, a person can play 'guess the bammed'.
Oh ya-I remember ole what's his name. What did he do to get the boot?
I notice , Rick Tomaska signature?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Yep. From what I have gathered, this was part of signature series of graded coins where certain experts like Rick were paid to grade coins in their specialty. I don't know if the signature is printed on all the labels or hand signed. Anyone else have any info on this?
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
Here is some interesting info from Conder via an old thread. Some of these appear to have been printed without the expert even seeing the coin!
"That is an older slab. It was what PCI called their Signature series where for a extra fee the coin would be examined by a recognized expert in that particular series. For the older series attrigutions would be provided as well. I'm not sure of the actual starting date but it was circa 1996. Less than two months after the service began several of their experts started running advertisments in the trade papers (coin World etc.) stating that effective immediately they were no longer connected in any way with PCI. When I asked some of them what happened they explained that PCI was holdering the coins and placing their signatures on them but they were not sending the coins to them for examination! The experts never saw the coins being shiped out with their signatures (and reputaions) on them. The signature series slab almost immediately died. Total production time was about two months and since is was only part of their submittals, total slab production was probably lss than 15,000 slabs. Most of which have probably been cracked out."
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/118233/new-pci-label/p1
I used to own a few but no longer have them.
So you're saying these slabs are rare?
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
Great toning on the first two! When did you sell them off if I may ask? If you sold them back around 2006 on ebay I may have bought that one from you.
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
It was much later. Somewhere between 2014-2017.
The Franklin was very nice.
They have a decent premium above what many of the common dated coins would sell for in a generic slab (even from the top 4 grading companies). They aren't the rarest of slabs, but they certainly aren't common.
It's nice to know that some people value the old holders as well as the coins because I find them and their history very interesting too. I just watched an interview with the founders of PCGS on Youtube and it was really enlightening!
Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281
I had a PCI MS 64 California I thought was nice (picked up on a deal of several coins). Sold it off at a show at Greysheet Ask.
An old thread revived. Here are a couple of older pictures of 2 Large Cents I owned.
I have been sending a lot of the old PCI green 10 digit holders to PCGS. Almost every coin has came back the same grade or higher. At FUN, I was talking with a guy that was a grader at PCI at that time. The graders were told to be very tough with the grading and they were. I could post many but I'll just do a few. This first one is actually from an old ACG holder.
ACG PF-64. PCGS PR-66 RB
1857 Cent. Obv. Die Clash w/$20 FS-403, S-7
PCI VF-35. PCGS VF-35
1880 Cent. DDO FS-101, S-1 Clashed Rev.
PCI AU-50. PCGS AU-53 BN
1955 Cent. DDO FS-101.
PCI MS-63 RB. PCGS MS-63 BN.
1839-O Dime. FS-502, F-108 Huge O.
PCI VF-20 Damaged Red Holder. PCGS XF Details Damaged.
1942/1 Dime. Overdate FS-101.
PCI VF-35 Red Holder Cleaned. PCGS XF Details Cleaned.
1806/5 Quarter. B-1
PCI VF-20. PCGS VF-20
1858 Cent Small Letter.
PCI AU-58. PCGS AU Details Cleaned.
Great run @ldhair ! Nice coins.
1909 Matte Proof Cent.
PCI PF-63 Red Holder. Cleaned. PCGS PR-62 RB Straight Grade.
1898 Nickel.
PCI PF-64. PCGS PR-65.
1879 Dime.
PCI PF-61. PCGS PR-62
I have many more still in the process of being graded but I'll stop there unless folks wish to see more of the results.
To me PCI was doing a pretty good job back in those days.