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A new area of focus (Le semeuse)
clarkbar04
Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
Got kind of burned out collecting US stuff (especially with increasing prices) and after completing my toned buffalo nickel date set, was going to either have to start another set or just slowly fade out of coins.
I have owned these before and always liked them - not surprising considering I'm also a big fan of walkers.
No real point in putting together a registry set in these - the 1900 has a mintage of just 99,000, and the one complete set is mostly MS66 pieces. Not a big deal to participate in the registry anyway.
Here's a few of the ones with better photos.
Not pictured - 1905, 1909, 1910, 1914
MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
19
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Here is one I picked up late last year. It's a copper pattern or trial.
I guess I should also post this in the "impulse purchase" thread!
That is pretty cool!
Really nice! I have always been a fan of the Roty design. His other work is probably worth pursuing as well.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
These are great coins, especially toned with the matte surfaces. Problem is getting pictures - some of mine were certified in the PCGS Paris office and don't have TrueView images.
Here's a couple I have - fun to look at in different lights.... I also like the 50 cent and 2 franc ones as well.
My current "Box of 20"
Awesome stuff @clarkbar04 Great looking group and has to be a fun place to dabble without breaking the bank.
https://numismaticmuse.com/ My Web Gallery
The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
These are three 1898 French Semeuse coins Syracusian (Dmitri) sold me some years ago. They all turned out to be MS 65 at PCGS. They are gorgeous in my view and I am **extremely grateful **that Dmitiri was willing to let them go.
The 50 centimes:
The franc:
and, the 2 franc:
Not Pop Tops, but the uniformity of toning suggests they were all collected and kept together by the same person at the same time, likely in 1898.
I like them !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
2 francs 1984 base metal piedfort:
Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter
I collected the WWI era series, or at least a series I like, 1914 - 1918...1918 MS62 below
Nice looking group @clarkbar04!
The 1914-18 pieces and often other dates come with very nice toning as illustrated. I will try to post a couple of Semeuse pieces tomorrow. I like the 5F pieforts of later dates as well...
Well, just Love coins, period.
Silver piéfort 5 francs 1968 SP68
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/my-10-best-coins/royales-franc-aises/14399
That's it! Very nice and IMHO a much nicer walking Liberty/Marianne than the WLH which seems to have been copied from it. Your next assignment should you choose to accept is to get a gold piefort version - these are on a price rise unfortunately.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Highest ranking coin
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/my-10-best-coins/royales-franc-aises/14399
In french, "la Semeuse"
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/my-10-best-coins/royales-franc-aises/14399
Here is the gold piefort 5 Francs:
Well, just Love coins, period.
On its way to me now.
My current "Box of 20"
This looks nicer than last picture but in hand lovely - for some reason gold not showing well:
Well, just Love coins, period.
What am I missing about this auction? The hammer price is 10x what I would have thought for a 1920 1 France, even in PCGS 65.
My current "Box of 20"
Which auction are you talking about?
Greig, I had missed this thread. Thank you for the nice comments and I have to say (judging from your extraordinary taste in Swiss francs) that I couldn’t have found a better buyer even if I wanted to. But I remember this trio, it was bought at a European auction, (cannot remember which one) and they came as a trio, exactly as you describe it: similar toning and most likely owned by the same person and stored in identical conditions. With a little luck I might even find the original auction picture.Here it is.
And I will share with you the behind the scenes story and how these three ended up for sale here (only), before I even had a chance to have them certified.
There was a very tough Greek (from Crete) coin in that same auction, quite expensive that I wasn’t able to win, so this trio was kind of a consolation prize. A couple of weeks later, the winner of the coin from Crete (a 1901-A 50 lepta in NGC MS65, a very rare grade for any silver coin from Crete) , a collector and a friend, called me to ask me if I were still interested in that coin. He wasn’t very happy with it and he needed the funds to purchase some Russian or Bulgarian coins in an upcoming auction.
And this was the reason that I needed to sell the recently purchased French trio (that was from the first year of issue too): to come up with the exact amount that he had paid for it at the auction, so I did the same thing. I’ve put them up for sale here at the BST at the exact same amount that I had purchased them, and all three of them together if I recall correctly. When Greig expressed his interest for them, I couldn’t be happier, because we had already done a few successful transactions between us and because I had always admired his taste , probably because it was so close to mine. 👅
There’s more to the story. I got the Cretan coin, a top pop and all, and yet, I wasn’t exactly in love with it. I never participated in registries in my life and I never forced myself to buy any coin because it was simply the missing coin from a set. Here’s that 50 lepta.
As you can probably tell from its picture, I kept finding this original gem coin, dull and unwanted, but it was still a very rare and very expensive coin that I needed for my collection.
Well, I didn’t need to wait too much. About 8 months later, I see the same type, but in PCGS MS63 coming up for auction. So I didn’t think twice about it. As soon as I won the PCGS MS63 coin, I sold the NGC MS65, without the slightest remorse. The 63 cost me 40% than the NGC MS65 and I still follow my instincts today like I used to 10 or 20 years ago. Meaning that their difference in grade, didn’t bother me one bit: I still think that the MS63, is a much more appealing coin, despite some technical imperfections compared to the unwanted MS65.
As an additional twist, the PCGS MS63, used to belong to a collector whom I knew rather well and to whom I had made a very good straight offer to buy it , 2-3 years prior to the auction but he had refused.
So this is the reason that I never participate in registries etc, although I am aware of some of the advantages that they offer, notably focus on whichever set one is working on and refusing too many impulse buys that might result in a lack of funds when the right coin comes along.
Still, in my collector’s DNA, eye appeal is everything and I never buy a coin, just because I need it to finish or to advance X set of coins. I still go to shows, or to dealers, or to auctions and I choose to buy the coins that I like and not the coins that I “need”.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Now, regarding the Semeuses, of which of course I have a few examples. Here’s one.
I believe that the reason that makes it so appealing to collectors, besides the nice design, is the very pretty toning that many of them can acquire and the proportions along with their original sizes. What I mean by this, is that this series works extremely well in their original sizes and metal composition (0.875 silver), ie the 50 centimes and the 1 and 2 francs.
I personally find all of the later attempts to revive this design a failure, with the biggest of them all being the polygonic version, some pre euro commemoratives, but also the 5 francs from the 60s that besides having a much lower relief, they never ever tone (I think that the reason is their 0.500 fineness) and even the rare gold version of it does not have the charm of the original designs that circulated for two decades in France and other LMU countries, although it is certainly a very desirable item. Ditto for the rare matte 1898 version of it, but it is JMHO.
And of course no disrespect to @7Jaguars , @1984worldcoins and @rhubarbe , who all posted an example of the less successful (IMHO!) versions.
PS: The US (bullion) silver eagle is another example of the same bad habit. The truly beautiful WLH loses all of its charm when you see the design stretched and magnified in the obverse of the silver eagles, that have none of the charm of the original WLH. Yet another example to prove the point that many (but not all) successfull designs become indifferent at best, if the size is enlarged.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Sorry. Here is the link https://coins.ha.com/itm/france/france-republic-franc-1920-ms65-pcgs-/a/61284-99212.s?type=lotlink--bidnotice-tracked-dailystatus
My current "Box of 20"
This thread, already terrific, has become even more interesting!!
First (and most important), thanks to Dmitri for the "back story" on the three 1898 French silver pieces he sold to me, as well as for the original auction photos. I am not a metallurgist, but I agree these French silver coins can be found with gorgeous toning. The ones I now have custody of (courtesy of Dmitri) certainly display colors and vibrancy. I continue to be grateful for his willingness to sell the three French coins to me and it is fascinating to hear how that purchase came about!
Second, I also share Dmitri's view that the numeric grade is less important than eye appeal. His examples of the 1901 50 lepta from Crete demonstrate very well how a lower graded coin can be much more attractive than a similar one with a higher number. (Consider his point in light of the discussion below.)
Third, to flesh out Bob13's comments, the link he posted is to a 1920 French franc - PCGS 65 - that sold (with buyer's premium) for an astronomical $3120 at Heritage yesterday. There's no doubt in my view that the coin has remarkably beautiful toning. Here are what I believe to be the TrueView photos, both from the Heritage listing:
But that sum is beyond belief!
I did a little digging into Sixbid's, PCGS' and StackBowers' archives and found a number of 1920 francs that have sold over the past few years:
Feb. 21, 2022, two NGC 65s sold for $60 each at StacksBowers
June 21, 2022, also at StacksBowers, an NGC 67 (with very attractive toning) sold for $840. Here's a photo of the reverse:
and the obverse:
Obviously, some extremely motivated buyers going after the Heritage coin!!
Let's keep this thread going!
I am trying to fathom that price also - a very well struck coin and lovely toning but don’t look at the Gadoury catalogue price.
Well, just Love coins, period.
PS - I will try to post my 1900 franc for a GTG later this eve.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder (I guess two in this case) but:
I guess I should get some TrueViews of mine!
My current "Box of 20"
This is my lone Semeuse Franc that I have to contribute to the discussion: GENI MS65
I originally bought this coin because I wanted the most French coin I could think of in the most French holder there is.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Here's my lone 50 Centimes example in NGC MS65 that I bought from someone on the forums last year or so.
Bob13's comment about 1915s will only be validated by this post.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
To be clear - I love these designs and like when they tone. But 3K for a 1920 in 65 - WOW. Here are some of mine:
My current "Box of 20"
The old versions are one of my favorite coin designs, though I don't own any
Here is the “wunderdate “ of the One Franc series:
Well, just Love coins, period.
Hey folks, first post for a while - thank you for sharing your nice Semeuse coins!
I'm hunting for these again and have a small raw stack of them ready to go to PCGS and take advantage of the current quarterly special. Just about out of the "easy" dates, still need a 1912 and a '17 with more toning than my raw one but it'll do for now. Need all but 2 of the 1898-1909 run.
Anybody found some more of these to add to their collections lately?
Hey Clark. Good to see you still active. Will you be assembling the registry set for them?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/france/french-modern-republics-decimal-coinage/french-franc-circulation-strikes-1898-1920/2707
https://numismaticmuse.com/ My Web Gallery
The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
That is doubtful. The 1900 has a small mintage (99,000) and the 1903 is a bit of a stopper as well. The rest are pretty achievable however.
Here are a couple new ones from the MDC auction recently. Common dates.
My current "Box of 20"
@Bob13 those are fantastic! Not sure what a MDC auction is so you don't have any competition from me.
Does anyone else think some of these PCGS Europe coins are pretty conservatively graded? I have one that blinds me with luster, no big marks, in a 63 holder.
Here's a 1914 I just bought overseas, it'll be here in a week or two.
MDC Monaco - you will find them on google. I buy things occasionally from them but you have to look carefully and they have some very high ticket items...
Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars - exactly. They had an auction a few months ago with a lot of semeuse (50 c, 1 franc, 2 franc) and many/most were PCGS graded.
Like you @clarkbar04 I like these coins but hard to see (right now) ponying up for the real scarce dates.
My current "Box of 20"
Due to high inflation I don’t think the WWI era coins would have circulated much, being that they are silver. So I’m not surprised to see a lot of them available in high grades. I want to get a nice one as the design is really exceptional.
They are on my list for the same reason. I like the Swiss Franc too and was able to talk a fellow board member out of a few.
I've also been looking at these. Seems anything prior to 1920 is pretty tough to find. In addition to the raw lot of Semeuse I sent in there's also a toned Swiss 1F in the lot.
You can hook me up when your submission comes back!