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A new area of focus (Le semeuse)

Got kind of burned out collecting US stuff (especially with increasing prices) and after completing my toned buffalo nickel date set, was going to either have to start another set or just slowly fade out of coins.

I have owned these before and always liked them - not surprising considering I'm also a big fan of walkers.
No real point in putting together a registry set in these - the 1900 has a mintage of just 99,000, and the one complete set is mostly MS66 pieces. Not a big deal to participate in the registry anyway.

Here's a few of the ones with better photos.



Not pictured - 1905, 1909, 1910, 1914

MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.

Comments

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is pretty cool!

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • ClioClio Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome stuff @clarkbar04 Great looking group and has to be a fun place to dabble without breaking the bank.

    https://numismaticmuse.com/ My Web Gallery

    The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gscoins said:
    These are three 1898 French Semeuse coins Syracusian (Dmitri) sold me some years ago. They all turned out to be MS 65 at PCGS. They are gorgeous in my view and I am **extremely grateful **that Dmitiri was willing to let them go.

    The 50 centimes:

    The franc:

    and, the 2 franc:

    Not Pop Tops, but the uniformity of toning suggests they were all collected and kept together by the same person at the same time, likely in 1898.

    I like them !

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • 1984worldcoins1984worldcoins Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    2 francs 1984 base metal piedfort:

    Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter

  • KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking group @clarkbar04!

    Successful BST Transactions With: tonedase, streg2, airplanenut, coindeuce, vibr0nic, natetrook, Shrub68, golden, Lakesammman, drddm, Ilikecolor, CoinJunkie, wondercoin, lablover
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1914-18 pieces and often other dates come with very nice toning as illustrated. I will try to post a couple of Semeuse pieces tomorrow. I like the 5F pieforts of later dates as well...

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's it! Very nice and IMHO a much nicer walking Liberty/Marianne than the WLH which seems to have been copied from it. Your next assignment should you choose to accept is to get a gold piefort version - these are on a price rise unfortunately.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2022 1:21PM

    Here is the gold piefort 5 Francs:

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On its way to me now.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2022 9:22AM

    This looks nicer than last picture but in hand lovely - for some reason gold not showing well:

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What am I missing about this auction? The hammer price is 10x what I would have thought for a 1920 1 France, even in PCGS 65.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • SYRACUSIANSYRACUSIAN Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2022 6:28AM

    Now, regarding the Semeuses, of which of course I have a few examples. Here’s one.

    I believe that the reason that makes it so appealing to collectors, besides the nice design, is the very pretty toning that many of them can acquire and the proportions along with their original sizes. What I mean by this, is that this series works extremely well in their original sizes and metal composition (0.875 silver), ie the 50 centimes and the 1 and 2 francs.

    I personally find all of the later attempts to revive this design a failure, with the biggest of them all being the polygonic version, some pre euro commemoratives, but also the 5 francs from the 60s that besides having a much lower relief, they never ever tone (I think that the reason is their 0.500 fineness) and even the rare gold version of it does not have the charm of the original designs that circulated for two decades in France and other LMU countries, although it is certainly a very desirable item. Ditto for the rare matte 1898 version of it, but it is JMHO.

    And of course no disrespect to @7Jaguars , @1984worldcoins and @rhubarbe , who all posted an example of the less successful (IMHO!) versions.

    PS: The US (bullion) silver eagle is another example of the same bad habit. The truly beautiful WLH loses all of its charm when you see the design stretched and magnified in the obverse of the silver eagles, that have none of the charm of the original WLH. Yet another example to prove the point that many (but not all) successfull designs become indifferent at best, if the size is enlarged.

    Dimitri



    myEbay



    DPOTD 3
  • gscoinsgscoins Posts: 276 ✭✭✭

    This thread, already terrific, has become even more interesting!!

    First (and most important), thanks to Dmitri for the "back story" on the three 1898 French silver pieces he sold to me, as well as for the original auction photos. I am not a metallurgist, but I agree these French silver coins can be found with gorgeous toning. The ones I now have custody of (courtesy of Dmitri) certainly display colors and vibrancy. I continue to be grateful for his willingness to sell the three French coins to me and it is fascinating to hear how that purchase came about!

    Second, I also share Dmitri's view that the numeric grade is less important than eye appeal. His examples of the 1901 50 lepta from Crete demonstrate very well how a lower graded coin can be much more attractive than a similar one with a higher number. (Consider his point in light of the discussion below.)

    Third, to flesh out Bob13's comments, the link he posted is to a 1920 French franc - PCGS 65 - that sold (with buyer's premium) for an astronomical $3120 at Heritage yesterday. There's no doubt in my view that the coin has remarkably beautiful toning. Here are what I believe to be the TrueView photos, both from the Heritage listing:

    But that sum is beyond belief!

    I did a little digging into Sixbid's, PCGS' and StackBowers' archives and found a number of 1920 francs that have sold over the past few years:

    1. Feb. 21, 2022, two NGC 65s sold for $60 each at StacksBowers

    2. June 21, 2022, also at StacksBowers, an NGC 67 (with very attractive toning) sold for $840. Here's a photo of the reverse:

    and the obverse:

    1. October 11, 2021, an NGC 66+ went for $384 at StacksBowers. Here are the photos:

    1. According to the PCGS' pop report site, Ebay has had 4 PCGS 65s sell in 2019 and 2020 from $30 to $84, the last in December 2020 with nice toning from Jeremy Katz. Here are photos of the Katz coin:

    1. Last night, Great Collections had an NGC 64 sell for $84 plus BP.

    Obviously, some extremely motivated buyers going after the Heritage coin!!

    Let's keep this thread going!

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am trying to fathom that price also - a very well struck coin and lovely toning but don’t look at the Gadoury catalogue price.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PS - I will try to post my 1900 franc for a GTG later this eve.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2022 9:35AM

    Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder (I guess two in this case) but:

    • Yes, this coin has toning, but the slab shots do not show nearly as dramatic coloring
    • This is not a rare coin to find. The dates from about 1915 generally seem available in holders and with color.

    I guess I should get some TrueViews of mine!

    My current "Box of 20"

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2022 8:54AM

    This is my lone Semeuse Franc that I have to contribute to the discussion: GENI MS65

    I originally bought this coin because I wanted the most French coin I could think of in the most French holder there is.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's my lone 50 Centimes example in NGC MS65 that I bought from someone on the forums last year or so.


    Bob13's comment about 1915s will only be validated by this post.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To be clear - I love these designs and like when they tone. But 3K for a 1920 in 65 - WOW. Here are some of mine:



    My current "Box of 20"

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 732 ✭✭✭✭

    The old versions are one of my favorite coin designs, though I don't own any

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the “wunderdate “ of the One Franc series:


    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2024 8:57AM

    Hey folks, first post for a while - thank you for sharing your nice Semeuse coins!
    I'm hunting for these again and have a small raw stack of them ready to go to PCGS and take advantage of the current quarterly special. Just about out of the "easy" dates, still need a 1912 and a '17 with more toning than my raw one but it'll do for now. Need all but 2 of the 1898-1909 run.

    Anybody found some more of these to add to their collections lately?

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • ClioClio Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @clarkbar04 said:
    Hey folks, first post for a while - thank you for sharing your nice Semeuse coins!
    I'm hunting for these again and have a small raw stack of them ready to go to PCGS and take advantage of the current quarterly special. Just about out of the "easy" dates, still need a 1912 and a '17 with more toning than my raw one but it'll do for now. Need all but 2 of the 1898-1909 run.

    Anybody found some more of these to add to their collections lately?

    Hey Clark. Good to see you still active. Will you be assembling the registry set for them?

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/france/french-modern-republics-decimal-coinage/french-franc-circulation-strikes-1898-1920/2707

    https://numismaticmuse.com/ My Web Gallery

    The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clio said:

    Hey Clark. Good to see you still active. Will you be assembling the registry set for them?

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/france/french-modern-republics-decimal-coinage/french-franc-circulation-strikes-1898-1920/2707

    That is doubtful. The 1900 has a small mintage (99,000) and the 1903 is a bit of a stopper as well. The rest are pretty achievable however.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here are a couple new ones from the MDC auction recently. Common dates.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2024 8:33AM

    @Bob13 those are fantastic! Not sure what a MDC auction is so you don't have any competition from me.
    Does anyone else think some of these PCGS Europe coins are pretty conservatively graded? I have one that blinds me with luster, no big marks, in a 63 holder.
    Here's a 1914 I just bought overseas, it'll be here in a week or two.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MDC Monaco - you will find them on google. I buy things occasionally from them but you have to look carefully and they have some very high ticket items...

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars - exactly. They had an auction a few months ago with a lot of semeuse (50 c, 1 franc, 2 franc) and many/most were PCGS graded.

    Like you @clarkbar04 I like these coins but hard to see (right now) ponying up for the real scarce dates.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • KSorboKSorbo Posts: 102 ✭✭✭

    Due to high inflation I don’t think the WWI era coins would have circulated much, being that they are silver. So I’m not surprised to see a lot of them available in high grades. I want to get a nice one as the design is really exceptional.

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are on my list for the same reason. I like the Swiss Franc too and was able to talk a fellow board member out of a few.

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,916 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erwindoc said:
    They are on my list for the same reason. I like the Swiss Franc too and was able to talk a fellow board member out of a few.

    I've also been looking at these. Seems anything prior to 1920 is pretty tough to find. In addition to the raw lot of Semeuse I sent in there's also a toned Swiss 1F in the lot.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @clarkbar04 said:

    @erwindoc said:
    They are on my list for the same reason. I like the Swiss Franc too and was able to talk a fellow board member out of a few.

    I've also been looking at these. Seems anything prior to 1920 is pretty tough to find. In addition to the raw lot of Semeuse I sent in there's also a toned Swiss 1F in the lot.

    You can hook me up when your submission comes back! ;)

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