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Flowing hair dollar to be revived

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  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can anyone explain the 15 stars?

  • percybpercyb Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭✭

    I’m in for the uniqueness and type.

    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
  • Some_of_itSome_of_it Posts: 133 ✭✭✭

    I will only get the medal if offered in MS. Not interested in proof.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can’t see into the future although it looks like the past is creeping up on us. I like silver and the flowing hair and the modern gold Mercury dime ,
    Walking Liberty Half and standing liberty quarter in gold (2016 ) . But it’s like no direction with these special remakes today. Just the same; recycling is cool.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    hmmm. they edge lettered the pucks without a lettered collar. i think they could squeeze it on an ase blank castaing style.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2023 9:10PM

    @Onastone said:

    I agree with pretty much everyone here, it's going to be too perfect and that gives it an unrealistic look.

    Particularly the "pineapple eagle." Or is it the "hand grenade eagle"?

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2023 7:12PM

    I’d be in for an entire proof or specimen remake set of the period.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven I also have that 2 oz round along with about 10 others they have done (they sell out fast when offered). The workmanship is great. To me, the one you posted is far better compared to the US Mint offering. There is something about the look of the US Mint version that doesn't look right.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    I'm not sure I'm loving it. I mean, the originals are superb, but these super clean, computer produced images make me think the new US Mint pieces will look more like silver rounds than true classics. Why can't/couldn't they employ sculptors or other quality artists to give these a truly "handmade" feel?

    You hit the nail on the head

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sold my Jefferson's Liberty First Spouse $10 because I thought the design was not nearly as good as the original Scot Draped Bust half cent, which the design was taken from. I believe most of the U.S. Mint coin and medal working dies are over finished and too smooth, probably for coining (striking) reasons. Classic U.S. Mint coinage has more chiseled features and better appearance than the modern CNC created dies.

    I like the decision to re-create the Flowing Hair dollar as a medal, but I hope the Mint puts more emphasis on engraving in a similar form as the original. I know the Mint has artists with the talent to do this including Chief Engraver Joseph Menna, they need to see the design through to the working dies and coining.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pcgscacgold said:
    There is something about the look of the US Mint version that doesn't look right.

    I'm thinking the cupped field on the obverse is one problem

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said

    Nobody at the US Mint has done actual engraving in a long time. For many decades now, US Mint sculptors have only created sculpted reliefs in clay/plaster and/or digitally. I am not certtain, but I think Menna's work at the US Mint has been entirely digital. Note that CNC machining will render what is in the digital sculpt, and nothing else. So if there are deficiencies in the final product, that is due to what is in the sculpt and not generally the CNC machining. A die made via a reduction lathe from a physical galvano can have the same issues as a digital/CNC die.

    I also believe Menna's Mint work has been digital sculpting, although he has extensive education and training in art history and traditional sculpture.

    The CNC machining will render the digital sculpt. I worked in tooling at Boeing for 36 years, including various forms of forging dies, which are machined from a dataset, not unlike a digital sculpture. The final step is deburring and polishing to the spec finish, which could be rough deburr, a finer machine polish, or even hand polish in less common case of finishing to a +/-.0005 tolerance.

    That is where the problem lies IMO with Mint coinage including proofs and other NCLT. The dies are finished by tool makers, not artists, and are over polished as to leave no sharp definition. That is understandable for circulating coinage, but for NCLT I know they can do better. It is not the die makers fault as they are working to a spec, it is caused by a process that does not include "they [digi sculptor/engraver] need to see the design through to the working dies and coining."

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a nonpolitical classic design. Whether the dies are finished a certain way or another, I can't complain. Beggars can't be choosers.

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
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  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2023 4:07PM

    @SPalladino said:
    ...not mentioned in the article was intended finish. Recent Liberty coins/medals have had a proof finish. Please, no >on a proof finish for this issue.

    .
    How about a matte proof finish for the silver medal?

    Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.

  • SPalladinoSPalladino Posts: 868 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @COCollector said:

    @SPalladino said:

    ...not mentioned in the article was intended finish. Recent Liberty coins/medals have had a proof finish. Please, no on a proof finish for this issue.
    .
    How about a matte proof finish for the silver medal?

    .
    For this issue, I would likely buy it even if a standard proof finish...a sorta "you'll eat whatever we put on the table" thing. But I will like some finishes more than others, and would like a standard proof finish the very least.

    Steve Palladino
    - Ike Group member
    - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @privatecoin said:
    Let's take a guess at what the price will be........

    It will be comparable to what the liberty coin/medal sold for this year.

  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @PerryHall said:

    Will the silver coin also show the original edge lettering?

    The CW article specifically states that the Au coin will have the "inscribed denomination", but says nothing about the silver medal. To me, this implies that the current 'plan' is no.

    @olympicsos said:

    What about In God We Trust and E Pluribus Unum?

    Per the CW article in the OP:
    "To honor the original, the Mint will follow the same minimal inscriptions on the 1794 Flowing Hair dollar coin on both the silver medal and gold coin."

    But is that legal? @Casabrown

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olympicsos said:

    But is that legal? @Casabrown

    I cannot answer your question. But, I can share some info about the "candidate designs" that the CCAC reviewed during their 11/28/23 meeting.

    The CCAC posted a YT video of this meeting. Link. The portion about the 'Flowing Hair' items starts at 1:51:49.

  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2023 5:32AM

    @MetroD said:

    @olympicsos said:

    But is that legal? @Casabrown

    I cannot answer your question. But, I can share some info about the "candidate designs" that the CCAC reviewed during their 11/28/23 meeting.

    The CCAC posted a YT video of this meeting. Link. The portion about the 'Flowing Hair' items starts at 1:51:49.

    This same issue will come up with the 2026 best of the mint coins too like the Gobrecht, Flying Eagle, Saint Gaudens High Relief etc. If In God We Trust and E Pluribus Unum aren't required on bullion coins, that's a game changer (something I support).

  • CRHer700CRHer700 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also, why does it have the very wide rim and a high-relief basin effect. They should lower the relief and flatten out the fields, as well as engraving the dies a bit more like circulation strikes and less like a polished specimen.

    God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's something reassuring about die file lines, A little gouge here or there. And using the third side is a must. Come on, let's get analog and use those digits and opposing thumb to make a great coin. Faukrissake!

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  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2023 6:28AM

    They did a good job on the Peace dollar issue, looks like they have some sales people with some brains and motivation at the mint which has become a big profit operation.

    Biggest flop in my opionion, the small gold slug remake of the uber popular 1907/2007 HR $20.

  • Cranium_Basher73Cranium_Basher73 Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there any info on the other classic designs proposed in the survey? As to which ones made the cut?

    Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.

  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    Would love to see this come higher relief. People wanting die lines, gouges, flattening are killing it.

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2023 9:04AM

    @Liquidated said:
    Would love to see this come higher relief. People wanting die lines, gouges, flattening are killing it.

    Per the 11/28/23 CCAC meeting, the current plan is:
    ~ gold coin in "high relief";
    ~ silver medal in "low relief";
    ~ and, "very much like" the 'American Liberty' program in terms of relief dimensions and planchets.

    The relevant portion starts at 2:00:10.

    Edited for clarity.

  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @Liquidated said:
    Would love to see this come higher relief. People wanting die lines, gouges, flattening are killing it.

    Per the 11/28/23 CCAC meeting, the current plan is:
    ~ gold coin in "high relief";
    ~ silver medal in "low relief";
    ~ and, "very much like" the 'American Liberty' program in terms of relief dimensions and planchets.

    The relevant portion starts at 2:00:10.

    Edited for clarity.

    I thought towards the end it was requested for two designs to later vote on?

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Liquidated said:
    I thought towards the end it was requested for two designs to later vote on?

    As I understand it, the CCAC considered two candidate designs at their 11/28/23 meeting:
    ~ original render, faithful to the 1794 coin;
    ~ and, revised render that incorporated alignment changes requested by the CFA.

    They voted to recommend the "original" design. The portion of the video that starts with a recap of the motion, and subsequent vote, starts at 2:12:45.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m a buyer👍😎

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    Any updates to gold version planned finish?

  • COCollectorCOCollector Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Liquidated said:
    Any updates to gold version planned finish?

    .
    Scheduled for release Fall 2024, presumably as a 2024 issue (230th anniversary):
    https://catalog.usmint.gov/230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-gold-coin-24YG.html?cgid=2024-product-schedule

    But there's no mention of its finish. I'm guessing Proof.

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  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 356 ✭✭✭✭

    I think the ‘silver round’ criticisms are right on. The basined die and the ‘apple cheeky’ Ms Liberty are not faithful to the original design.

    Which is weird, because it is not rocket science to do a better job with existing technology

    Why don’t they scan a high-grade 1794 original and get the design absolutely right?

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 356 ✭✭✭✭

    3-D scanning, of course.

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭

    I will probably buy one. I am guessing it will be $3500.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Liberty with a mouth full of tobacco. Then that's just my opinion.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2024 5:35AM

    What happens with In God We Trust and E Pluribus Unum, would they be omitted? I am still wondering about that?

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,073 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olympicsos said:
    What happens with In God We Trust and E Pluribus Unum, would they be omitted? I am still wondering about that?

    Since these mottos are required by law, perhaps it could be added to the edge or they could just be eliminated.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 761 ✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @olympicsos said:
    What happens with In God We Trust and E Pluribus Unum, would they be omitted? I am still wondering about that?

    Since these mottos are required by law, perhaps it could be added to the edge or they could just be eliminated.

    The edge was supposed to also imitate the original.

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