WAS Very Frustrated *Updated 1st post*
Pnies20
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I just posted results from a recent PCGS submission. Let me start off with I love the service. The holders, the aesthetic, the grades. They do a good job.
I am very frustrated with customer service. I have two other submissions for crossover (NGC and ANACS). I am very new to the submission process so I asked a lot of questions at the table of the FUN show including, “If I leave this minimum grade blank does that mean I don’t care what they grade it?” To which the reply was “yes”.
I now know that to be false. Could she have misunderstood me? Sure. They are overworked throughout the company, I bet. Still, I was given information that caused my coins not to cross.
What’s even more annoying is I filled out the next submission form on my own like a big boy with the same instructions in mind. Now I get to watch this submission go through the pipeline and not cross (I suspect this because they haven’t bothered to image it). I also get to wait another two months on top of having sent them in July and waiting until now.
I know the series pretty well, I know the differences in grading between the services, and I know what they would most likely grade these coins I submitted.
So I called customer service today because I do not know the ins and outs of their service. Do they charge if it doesn’t cross? You all know that’s a yes. What can be done? Will you help make this right?
The answer to that was a resounding no. I will have to spend several more hundred dollars to resubmit these coins after I was given wrong information. I asked if they would alert the graders that I am ok with a minimum grade on the last submission as to not have the same issue and have to also resubmit. The customer service rep (who really seemed great at her job, not sarcasm) informed her supervisor, without me asking to speak to one, to see what could be done. the supervisor basically said they were not willing to offer any recourse and to resubmit.
I understand. People could call in and lie, scam and whatever else. But as a company with annual revenue of 78.9 million dollars, you cannot put your customers first and fix something as little as this? Not the way it should be done.
End rant.
Update:
Had a conversation with someone who said they would be willing to check on my coin in the pipeline. Within 48 hours it was all of a sudden being imaged and had a grade. Trueview just came up.
Other coins were resubmitted Friday free of charge 😃 thanks PCGS for making it right.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Comments
i suggest editing in the title - "told cross @ any grade meant leave min grade blank"
this will attract even more people. tho i suspect you'll still get answers from the audience
Sorry for your experience. So what should have been put in that box?
Martin
Thanks I’ll do that.
Any grade that I would be okay with as a floor for the coin.
For example, One was NGC AU55 and I could’ve put AU50. If they felt it was XF45, they wouldn’t cross it.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Seems things have changed since my last crossover submission 🦉
It's been long time since I submitted anything, but didn't there used be a box that said "cross at any grade" and one that said "cross at min grade" (or however it was worded)?
Sucks about having to fork out more cash to fix the issue...one of the reasons I abandoned slabs years ago.
Any.
PCGS submission guidelines attached and agreed to by each submitter state:
"Please specify one of the options below in the "Minimum Grade" column on the front of the form. If you leave this area blank, PCGS will assume the minimum grade is the grade currently on the holder."
Sorry you received bad info from their reps.
They should fix that in the pipeline, so hopefully the right eyes see it here.
1TwoBits
I'd call them again and ask to speak with another supervisor or the head honcho in charge. I'm assuming the coin(s) did not cross at any grade, right? If so, and there was no minimum grade marked then PCGS has messed the submission up by not crossing at any grade. Keep fighting...
I'm confused. By not putting a minimum grade on the form, that would mean that they would be forced to assume you won't accept a grade lower than that on the current holder. By placing a minimum grade on the form, you are saying "don't cross it at anything below this grade", which may be higher, the same or lower than the grade on the holder depending on what you write on the form.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Yes. At the time I filled out the form, I did not know the answer to that so I asked and was told I could leave it blank to receive holdering at any grade.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
If a submitter fails to provide a minimum grade on a "crossover", PCGS does NOT default to the "any" option.
From the PCGS "crossover" page:
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/crossover
Edited for clarity.
I wish but I highly doubt it. They refused to do so when I specifically asked for that on the phone call.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Sometimes I just need a hug.
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find this on the form and you are golden
.
From the pdf form
.
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It is part of the "Submission Guidelines". See Section #5, "Crossover" sub-section. Link
Problem is that the actual policy does not 'match' what the OP understood from the PCGS rep at the FUN Show when filling out the form.
Edited to Add:
@lilolme beat me to it.
ooops. misread.
you are not golden, but was given incorrect info.
unfortunately you are paying for their training issues
The real problem is my wife hates the hobby so if she finds out I’m out this money and wasted this time she’ll likely never let me submit again 😂😭
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Shows are a very busy time for PCGS. It is unfortunate they had an individual working the show that was new or working out of their area of expertise.
Thanks for sharing this though. You probably saved a few other people from making this mistake.
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This. Newbie working the table inadvertently gave OP bad info.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I would suggest that prior to your next submission you make certain you are aware of what's going to be done with your coins. Standing in line with coins, payment and a submission form, while asking a Customer Service Rep these questions, just begs for the outcome you received. One of two approaches would have yielded a better result:
--- call PCGS Customer Service while you're at home filling in the form(s).
--- post questions here first, most everything has already been done by a member(s) who will have the right answer for you.
Better yet, ask questions here first and then get verification from PCGS.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
We don't know that!
If the question was asked as without stating the submission was for a crossover the answer would have been correct for a grading if the minimum grade were left blank the coins would be graded at any grade.
...which is bad info, as OP asked about a crossover, not a straight grade. A raw coin cannot have a minimum grade. It just grades what it grades. Minimum grade only applies to crossovers.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I don’t fault her at all. She had told me she hadn’t been given a break and hadn’t eaten yet and it was afternoon.
I had both crossover and raw submissions on the table but had finished the raw one, moved on to the crossover and was clearly asking about that. She may not have known that.
My main issue is not even that. Accidents happen. I have a major problem that I was completely dismissed as if they didn’t care when I called in to ask for assistance. That’s very disheartening. There’s a whole number of things they could do and decided not to do ANYTHING.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Curiously, if you know pcgs grades tighter on these specific series than other tpg’s, why not crack them and submit raw to save the 1% guarantee premium? You were ready to accept lower grades than the current holders.
Maybe pcgs did you a favor by not crossing them to save you that 1% fee? You can fix the problem and resubmit without that fee.
I’m just trying to look at the bright side
More like if she finds out what you spend on all those Bust halves.
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While I agree 100% with this statement @Maywood , one of the reasons I have drastically reduced my posting here is that when someone asks a question here like this, they will undoubtedly attract several comments such as, "why don't you call customer service, that's what they're for". It's as if they're wasting everyone's time. Some of us like to ask questions of the more experienced submitters here instead of waiting on hold or emailing and getting answered that only God knows when. I once asked a question via email and it was over a month before I received an answer.
Come on guys and gals. Let's make this hobby enjoyable for everyone. I understand that trolls occasionally post, but all of us were newbies once and had millions of questions that seem elementary now. If you find a question or comment annoying for some reason, just move on. When you give a smart @$$ answer it says more about the kind of person you are than the poster you're trying to make look foolish.
Something that I’ve learned over the many years of filling out the submission forms is to put as much information on the form as humanly possible. Fill out every section whether it’s “optional” or not. Put the exact coin numbers on each line so there’s no ambiguity as to what coin you’re submitting (like the guy in the other post about NGC not recognizing his slick ddo 1916 nickel). Cover your bases so that if pcgs makes a mistake on the label, or refusing to cross, or the fees you got charged, you have proof on the submission form that what you did was correct so pcgs will fix the problem for free.
You can, but are not required to, specify a minimum grade for a 'grading/raw' submission.
From the "Submission Guidelines". Specifically, section #5, sub-section "Grading":
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/submissionform/usacoin.pdf
So sorry to hear this Paul. I thought I told you this story and you knew.
Same exact thing when I submitted in Aug of 2022 at the ANA show in Chicago. I hadn't submitted in years.
Asked all the questions at the show, filled out the form with them, and lo and behold, nope, that's NOT how you do it. Coins didn't cross at grade, so they didn't cross at all.
WARNING; If sending for Crossover, and you want the coin in a PCGS holder with any straight grade, write ANY in the Minimum Grade Column
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Todd - BHNC #242
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I’m so glad I don’t play this ‘favorite’ plastics game. Also, so much incompetence, anymore, and it happens everywhere. I don’t trust advice from, anyone, these days. I always get second and third opinions. I think they should make it right by you. That’s just my two cents…Good luck.
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big disagrees here.
asking the customer service rep to answer a question is one reason they are there. in fact, sometimes there's a separate table for people to do the paperwork themselves.
customer service is serving the customer
you say he should know before asking but then say to call customer service
asking the audience will sometimes be met with "call customer service"
After years of submissions, I somehow too made this mistake recently. I will not make it again.
http://ProofCollection.Net
So, it was an error (mistakenly by info received) on your part. But I wouldn’t give up quite yet. I would call back, ask for a supervisor ( get their name) and then if they say no, ask to speak to their supervisor.
And if necessary keep moving up the ladder, so to speak.
I have found in dealing with large companies, the higher up you go, people in higher positions won’t “sweat” the smaller stuff. And they have the “juice” to make it happen where lower level employees may not, are too scared, etc.
I think if you get high enough up in the corporate structure, you will receive a positive outcome.
If you get to a level and they don’t want to give you their supervisor, tell them you will just fire off a letter ( preferable and certified ) or email to the CEO( or other high positions) Having already given you their name ( the supervisor,) it’s a good chance they don’t want to be “introduced” to a CEO because of a disappointed customer! Be firm and let them know you’re not stopping until the very top management turns you down.
>
Also for future reference, always get the name of the initial employee that gave the initial advice. Then if a problem comes up, you can say, well John or Jane Doe TOLD me this was fine. Easier to negotiate when you have an actual person to lay the problem on, better leverage on your side.
Good luck in getting it resolved.
@MsMorrisine said: you say he should know before asking but then say to call customer service
Man, are you daft or just challenged with reading comprehension??
What I said is clear in the post, call CS first instead of wasting everyone's time by doing that at the point of submission. And as to CS giving bad advice or a wrong answer, that is a general result EVERYWHERE post COVID shutdown. Customer Service has suffered everywhere I go.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I think the long & short of it is that it's on you to read the submission form and the terms and conditions that you are agreeing to.
Sure, it would be nice to assume that CSRs are knowledgeable and can communicate all of the subtleties of the service, but those kinds of CSRs are long gone. Even with the best of intentions, that's not how it works.
The large print giveth, the small print taketh away, and the audio is worth the paper it's printed on.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
It would seem, for continuity purposes, a new approach is warranted. Thusley this. When verbally communicating with CSR and related departments record the conversation. Exactly like the CC companies do and bank's when phoning them. The old " this conversation is being recorded for quality assurance and training purposes". In fact I plan on letting the CSR know THEY are being recorded for MY quality assurance.
Thank you, I stand corrected...
On a cross over if I'm willing to take any grade, I just write "Any" in the box. But on ERRORS, I usually write MS60 if the coin sits in a holder grade higher just because if PCGS determines that there is a wheel mark or something else that the fist company didn't see, I would rather have the coin in another hold then a PCGS holder without a grade.
When I submitted coins to PCGS at Long Beach the PCGS rep was very nice but also very inexperienced. She subsequently told me that she had only been working for a few months and she had to ask her supervisor multiple questions regarding my submission. Unfortunately most businesses are having a difficult time finding experienced employees.
Policies change
Best bet is to always get the posted to the public policy that’s in writing. Large businesses move fast. He said she said isn’t the route to take. Chalk it up to a learning experience.
Right, but companies bear a responsibility for who they hire, how well they train them, and what they do. We cannot let them off so easily. Customers should be able to 100% rely on representations made by company representatives.
To that point, PCGS also bears a little responsibility for a straightforward submission form. The intuitive interpretation of a blank minimum grade spec is "any."
http://ProofCollection.Net
Agree on the documentation. Respectfully, disagree on just docilely accepting the 'hit'. Besides, if the OP was ready to do this, he would not have bothered to create this thread.
As I see it, the OP asked a 'designated/appropriate' PCGS staffer a question about completing a PCGS form at a PCGS booth. And then relied upon the direction he received. In short, he did nothing wrong. (Yes, there were others ways for the OP to get this information, including, but not limited to, the submission guidelines. But, he decided to use the in-person option that PCGS offered.)
Additionally, the question involved a basic 'policy/practice', not some obscurity. I can, in fact, find this information in multiple locations on the website (e.g., submission guidelines, "crossover" page, FAQs, and step-by-step submission guidelines). My point - this should have been an "easy" answer.
Given the circumstances as described, I do not believe that the OP should have to absorb a 'dollar/time' loss. Assuming PCGS can verify the details, they should do whatever they can to mitigate the impact of their mistake.
Let's get someone involved that may be able to assist. Calling @HeatherBoyd.
At the very least, investigating this claim could help to identify a potential issue with the information being dispensed, and prevent a recurrence.
OP signed a submission form...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Fair point. As I understand it, the legalese means that PCGS is under no legal obligation to do anything for the OP.
OK. However, given the unusual circumstances, perhaps they could consider doing something on a voluntary basis.
They could and they SHOULD...but it's extraordinarily difficult to get one cent out of them.
I submitted a coin on the first day of a show for show grading. They didn't grade it and instead brought it back and ran it as an express but still charged me for show grading. But when I called to complain I was told well it's still pretty quick and here's a $20 voucher for future grading fees. I was furious and raised a big stink and eventually got the $80 difference refunded. But it took multiple hours on the phone, multiple phone calls, multiple emails, and the only reason I ever got it resolved is because Heather here took ownership of the issue. So it's not impossible to get these fees refunded but it's definitely an uphill battle considering how hard I had to fight when I had incontrovertible proof that I requested for and paid for show grading and they accepted the coin and then gave me a lower level of service but still charged me for the higher service.
I'm confident OP is in the right but he only has a story. I wish OP luck🤞
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So did my EX, and just a part of the reason she is.
Lermish’s post above is going about resolving the problem in a more difficult direction by having pcgs do a refund. The easier way to fix this entire problem is to submit again under a mechanical error, explain that the coins should have crossed at any grade from original submission number xxxxxxx.
I had to do this exact thing myself with a coin that was a cross at any grade at the New Orleans show a few months ago. It DNC, and PCGS took care of it afterwards, no charge.
Fighting for some sort of refund is gonna be like chasing your tail. Work at this the easier way because you’ve already paid for a service, just have PCGS go back in and cross the coins at any grade now.