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1909-S VDB Buyer's Remorse- Help! (Updated)

JobessiJobessi Posts: 267 ✭✭✭
edited July 17, 2023 4:35PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I bought this cent this weekend on an online auction and I am having serious buyer's remorse. What would you grade this coin at, and how much would you have spent on it? I'll post a screenshot of what I paid after I get a few answers. (These are the auction houses's pics)...never drink and bid. Hopefully I didn't do too bad... (Updated as promised) I spent an even $800 for this coin.

Farmer & Theatre Teacher by day…

Comments

  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Appears to be wear above the ear but the pictures are a 1 on a scale of 1 to 100 so you'll just have to see. Right now I'm in AU territory.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to tell from those pictures, although it appears that there is a pretty strong likelyhood that the coin has been cleaned.
    The mint mark position appears to match #2 (or maybe #3). So it is possible that the coin is genuine, at least. But a closer in-person examination is necessary.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As said the photos are poor, when I attempt to enlarge on my phone it becomes seriously pixilated so I cannot say if genuine or not. I'm 100% in the AU camp at best and I would not be surprised if cleaned, if you have a return privilege I would exercise it.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Currently I grade it Authenticity Unverifiable.

    If it is authentic, I grade it AU Details - Reverse Rim Damage.

    Coin Photographer.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's simply far too overexposed for me to give a meaningful interpretation.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to tell from the current photos, but my best guess from them is AU details cleaned.

    Collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 698 ✭✭✭✭

    Always tough to tell with photos, but with those four pretty obvious reverse rim hits I don't think it would straight grade though. UNC details at best, AU at worst.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    pumpkin orange = cleaned

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 4:05PM

    I've made plenty of mistakes in this business but not that one. Never bid or buy while drunk/impaired or being hustled. I wish rash and reckless buyers had to pay reasonable return fees when it is they who were in error. Misrepresentation by sellers is quite another matter.

  • AotearoaAotearoa Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whizzed to remove value.

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • steve76020steve76020 Posts: 367 ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2023 11:57AM

    au53 or 55 personally i think for 800 dollars you got a deal. Have it slabbed and double your money, or keep it.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A perfect example of why this forum exists... Ask questions first.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is there a drama queen in da house?

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • maymay Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    How many more coins did you buy this past wekend, and how many more threads are you going to post?
    Looks a lot like this one
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1093456/1806-5-draped-bust-half-eagle-buyers-remorse-help-update#latest

    He must of gone to a frat party beforehand. ;)

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d also suggest don’t drink and gamble online.

  • TrampTramp Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 7:58PM

    Let me guess Proxibid? Looks like something offered by Gold Standard Auctions which have such pictured coins that have the craziest grades and often look cleaned. Not saying they are but they certainly look like it.

    https://www.proxibid.com/1909-S-Wheat-Cent/lotInformation/78018492


    My advice is stay away especially if you are or have been drinking.

    My guess is genuine details cleaned.

    USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
    My current Registry sets:
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
    ✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)

  • JobessiJobessi Posts: 267 ✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    How many more coins did you buy this past wekend, and how many more threads are you going to post?
    Looks a lot like this one
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1093456/1806-5-draped-bust-half-eagle-buyers-remorse-help-update#latest

    Oh my gosh, look how witty and observant you are!!! I just bought those two. I've been a member for about 10 years, so I'll probably post a few more times. I hope that's ok with you. It's "weekend." Looks like someone else has been hitting the bottle as well, lol.

    Farmer & Theatre Teacher by day…
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 7:12PM

    @Jobessi said:

    @alaura22 said:
    How many more coins did you buy this past wekend, and how many more threads are you going to post?
    Looks a lot like this one
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1093456/1806-5-draped-bust-half-eagle-buyers-remorse-help-update#latest

    Oh my gosh, look how witty and observant you are!!! I just bought those two. I've been a member for about 10 years, so I'll probably post a few more times. I hope that's ok with you. It's "weekend." Looks like someone else has been hitting the bottle as well, lol.

    I saw that you are a member since 2011 and wondered why the dual threads. Thought maybe your name was hijacked
    Yes, last weekend was a blast............not

  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to know how you did until you have the coin in hand.
    The seller’s photos are conveniently overexposed so you have little to go on at the moment other than the fact that it is not in a slab.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you made out OK, although the color is a bit strange.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beware of coins offered with overexposed photos.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,362 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If authentic, $800 isn't too bad for that coin IMO.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And I agree. I have taken chances on such coins before and occasionally been pleasantly shocked on receiving the coin after being a bit worried. At least it is WAY BETTER THAN THOSE INANE VAULT BOXES.
    Even on these boards I took a chance on a bit cheaper coin (355 USD) and the pictures not too great. It was the 1912 Caballito peso that later graded out at hosts at MS65 and is worth well over 2500 USD!
    So good on you for taking a bit of a risk, even if we'd like better pictures! Please let us know on receipt of coin, preferably with pictures of it in hand.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    And I agree. I have taken chances on such coins before and occasionally been pleasantly shocked on receiving the coin after being a bit worried. At least it is WAY BETTER THAN THOSE INANE VAULT BOXES.
    Even on these boards I took a chance on a bit cheaper coin (355 USD) and the pictures not too great. It was the 1912 Caballito peso that later graded out at hosts at MS65 and is worth well over 2500 USD!
    So good on you for taking a bit of a risk, even if we'd like better pictures! Please let us know on receipt of coin, preferably with pictures of it in hand.

    So, bidding $800 on a coin that could be counterfeit is better than gambling on a certified coin in a Vault Box? Even if you lose on the Vault Box, at least you still get a genuine coin as a parting gift.

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not original color. Cleaned not grade able is my guess. lots of short scratches on Lincolns coat. IF it is what you want, it is an OK deal for $800. Appears to be re-colorized somehow. I would return it or sell it at break even price and find a better one. Bargains that do not fit your narrative or make you happy are not bargains at all. For coins, IMHO, originality says it all.

    image
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really need better pictures... It looks cleaned, color off. If authentic (appears to be), I would return it... Cheers, RickO

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Post pictures when you get it in hand - we will likely have a better sense for what the surfaces look like.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Problem coin. I try my best to not make someone else's problem coin my problem coin.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tramp said:
    Let me guess Proxibid? Looks like something offered by Gold Standard Auctions which have such pictured coins that have the craziest grades and often look cleaned. Not saying they are but they certainly look like it.

    https://www.proxibid.com/1909-S-Wheat-Cent/lotInformation/78018492


    My advice is stay away especially if you are or have been drinking.

    My guess is genuine details cleaned.

    I can attest most of their coins are cleaned from experience. I rarely if ever buy from them. Lesson(S) learned.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Why would anyone buy a raw key-date coin when there are so many available that have been slabbed? Do they think they are saving money?

    Some collectors think so. They believe that encapsulation raises the purchase price as compared to a raw specimen.

    What they really should do is research their purchase, including knowing current prices.

    Then again, others want a raw coin for their albums, and in this case, they really REALLY should study up on diagnostics.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know it's a key date. It's still a really common coin. Plenty of more eye appealing examples, even if with somewhat more wear. I'd also only buy it in an NGC or PCGS holder.

  • BucketHeadBucketHead Posts: 129 ✭✭✭

    My advice is stay away especially if you are or have been drinking.

    In theory this is awesome advice. In practice it rarely works.

    Cheers.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @7Jaguars said:
    And I agree. I have taken chances on such coins before and occasionally been pleasantly shocked on receiving the coin after being a bit worried. At least it is WAY BETTER THAN THOSE INANE VAULT BOXES.
    Even on these boards I took a chance on a bit cheaper coin (355 USD) and the pictures not too great. It was the 1912 Caballito peso that later graded out at hosts at MS65 and is worth well over 2500 USD!
    So good on you for taking a bit of a risk, even if we'd like better pictures! Please let us know on receipt of coin, preferably with pictures of it in hand.

    So, bidding $800 on a coin that could be counterfeit is better than gambling on a certified coin in a Vault Box? Even if you lose on the Vault Box, at least you still get a genuine coin as a parting gift.

    Yes, Vault Box is a KNOWN POS. At least this looks not too bad....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    One rule that all collectors should observe is NEVER buy a 1909-S-VDB cent raw, especially if you can’t examine it in person.

    Agreed, you never know how much you don't know.

    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    One rule that all collectors should observe is NEVER buy a 1909-S-VDB cent raw, especially if you can’t examine it in person.

    Agree. And this rule should apply to all key-date coins, especially the 1916-D Mercury dime.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK, some of us have. I frequently buy coins at European auctions and had a good look at a 1909 S VDB a couple of years ago (at a major auction house) and bought it unslabbed at 1200 USD as it looked good. Coin slabbed at hosts at MS64RB - which is what it looked like on my examination.

    But despite that I agree with the advice.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2023 4:47AM

    If a key date coin is being auctioned on line, and they didn't even bother to have it slabbed, I would not even consider bidding on it.

    I bought my 1909 S VDB "raw" in 1992 at my LCS, But I knew that if the coin turned out being a counterfeit, my dealer would have given my money back. It now resides in a MS61 RED OGH.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    OK, some of us have. I frequently buy coins at European auctions and had a good look at a 1909 S VDB a couple of years ago (at a major auction house) and bought it unslabbed at 1200 USD as it looked good. Coin slabbed at hosts at MS64RB - which is what it looked like on my examination.

    But despite that I agree with the advice.

    Nice score!

  • I know I'm old but I cannot even see the V.D.B. I would pass on that one and try to get a graded one.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lostintranslation said:
    I know I'm old but I cannot even see the V.D.B. I would pass on that one and try to get a graded one.

    Someone posted a picture of a 1909-S, as well. I’m guessing your comment pertains to that coin, rather than the 1909-S V.D.B. pictured in the opening post to this thread.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • @MFeld Posts
    You are right sir. I thought both pictures were the same coin. My mistake.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lostintranslation said:
    @MFeld Posts
    You are right sir. I thought both pictures were the same coin. My mistake.

    I had initially made the same mistake and almost posted something similar to what you did.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • JimTylerJimTyler Posts: 3,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2023 4:07PM

    Nevermind

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