An Original 1942 Proof Set

FlyingAl · July 1, 2023 3:54PM

This time, it appears to be the real deal.

This appears to be an original (Mint cellophane) 1942 Proof set. The coins are all high grade, and the set overall is matching.

Here are images (this is the most challenge I've had imaging coins, ever ).
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After discussing with @CaptHenway, who has seen original sets before, it would appear that this set has all of the hallmarks of originality. The packaging matches what he and other associates remember seeing from early Proof sets that came straight from the Mint (or from those who bought them from the Mint). However, the appearance of two staples is interesting (one has tissue paper in it).

The cello is rather stiff and crunchy, and has a texture at the base of each pouch that appears on each pre-1950 Proof set I've seen. However, I haven't seen it on post-1950 sets, which seem to have a lined texture or none at all. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough at this though.

Contrary to what I think most of us would believe, the cent is bright red and has no discoloration or spots. This would further my stance that most wildly toned pre-1950 Proof cents are NOT original, but rather album/holder tone, or artificial tone. I grade the cent PR64RD.

The cent is a deep, blazing red and shows deep mirrors that flash under a lamp. Light hairlines are present in both the obverse and reverse fields, but no spots or discoloration are present. The deep red orange hues show at all angles, and truly shine with the flash of the mirrors. I grade the cent PR64RD.
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The nickel is also bright in appearance, and has no tone. A touch of contrast is present, but barely noticeable. Deep mirrors flash on both sides of the coin, and a light yellow touch appears throughout. I grade it PR67.
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The dime has an overall steely gray appearance, with the reverse graced with some deep red and purple spots. The overall look is pleasing, and the surfaces appear clean. I grade it PR67.
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The quarter has a light brown haze upon the surfaces, which fades to a steel gray flash when tilted into the light. The obverse and reverse have light orange, red and magenta rim tone spots. The mirrors flash through the toning easily, presenting a wonderful glare of color mixed with originality. I grade it PR67.
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The half is absolutely stunning. Deep blues, greens, and purples adorn the obverse, fading into a blazing flash as the mirrors turn a silvery grey in the center. The reverse shows a similar color, with a light deep red spot tucked into the reverse periphery. The surfaces show a deep silvery grey, and no disturbances hinder the deep, clear mirrors. I grade it PR67+ STAR.
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cameonut2011 · July 1, 2023 4:06PM

Very cool!

steve_richardson · July 1, 2023 4:10PM

Beautiful! Great job with the photos!

That half dollar is amazing 🤩

PeakRarities · July 1, 2023 4:12PM

Woohoo! Nice pickup Al, looks like they all aged well.

alaura22 · July 1, 2023 4:44PM

Al, great set of coins and great detailed report and pics.
It's unclear, do you own it? What's your plans for it?

justindan · July 1, 2023 4:44PM

Really cool!

MFeld · July 1, 2023 4:54PM

Ho hum…

Just one more excellent post with great pictures from @FlyingAl. 😉
If i owned a rare coin company, I’d try really hard to hire this guy!
By the way, I especially like the peacock-blue patina on the half dollar.

FlyingAl · July 1, 2023 4:59PM

@alaura22 said:
Al, great set of coins and great detailed report and pics.
It's unclear, do you own it? What's your plans for it?

I am the owner. I’m thinking I’ll try and keep it together and with me for some time.

It’s unfortunate how to maximize value I’d have to cut the coins out, but perhaps if done skillfully the whole set can be kept together in slabs with the original packaging with it.

PeakRarities · July 1, 2023 5:04PM

@MFeld

“Peacock-blue patina”

Putting some of those catchy phrases from the other thread to work, I see? 😅

MFeld · July 1, 2023 5:07PM

@DeplorableDan said:
@MFeld

“Peacock-blue patina”

Putting some of those catchy phrases from the other thread to work, I see? 😅

Precisely. 😀 That thread took me part way back to my cataloging days from very long ago and to my rare coin offering descriptions.

OAKSTAR · July 1, 2023 5:12PM

OAKSTAR · July 1, 2023 5:12PM

jfriedm56 · July 1, 2023 5:14PM

Wonderful original set. First thing I noticed that struck me as odd were the two staples. The centered one looks a bit more rusted. Wonder if the off centered one was put in first and then corrected by the other one. We’ll never know. Congrats on a great looking set!

BillJones · July 1, 2023 5:35PM

Lucky you! I came into a set like this, with the coins not stapled together, in the mid 1970s. A friend, who was into dipping, dipped it. Don’t be too hard on him. Dipping everything was in vogue then. That set had a war nickel in it.

braddick · July 1, 2023 5:45PM

Simply outstanding.

OAKSTAR · July 1, 2023 5:46PM

You got it from Julian? 👍🏻

vplite99 · July 1, 2023 5:54PM

Amazing set!

keyman64 · July 1, 2023 5:58PM

Not too shabby! Well done.

CaptHenway · July 1, 2023 6:44PM

@FlyingAl said:

@alaura22 said:
Al, great set of coins and great detailed report and pics.
It's unclear, do you own it? What's your plans for it?

I am the owner. I’m thinking I’ll try and keep it together and with me for some time.

It’s unfortunate how to maximize value I’d have to cut the coins out, but perhaps if done skillfully the whole set can be kept together in slabs with the original packaging with it.

Getting the last dollar out of something is not as important as owning something wonderful!

CaptHenway · July 1, 2023 6:55PM

Al and I have discussed the extra staple. All I have at this stage is speculation.

One possibility is that some collector bought a five-piece set early in the year, and later bought a Type Two nickel singleton, and he stapled the cello for the singleton onto the cello for the five-piece set. Why not?

An interesting possibility that I cannot say never happened is that the Mint itself took an already-stapled five-piece set and stapled a singleton Type Two nickel onto it to fulfill an order for a six-piece set. I have never heard of such a set, but why not? At first glance the staples do seem to be the same.

Remember, these cellophane sleeves were not intended by the Mint as the coins' final resting places, compared to the 1955-on flat packs or the 1968-on hard cases. They were merely shipping wrappers to protect the coins in transit. I assume that a lot of buyers immediately opened the cellophanes and placed the coins into whatever holders they normally used for their collections.

TD

Catbert · July 1, 2023 7:04PM

@FlyingAl perhaps you might consider one of those NGC multi coin slabs to house the entire proof set.

That half is just stunning!

Bob13 · July 1, 2023 8:26PM

Thanks for posting. The half looks amazing!

Was this the set listed by Julian on eBay? If so - good for you for taking it home.

FlyingAl · July 1, 2023 8:31PM

@Bob13 said:
Thanks for posting. The half looks amazing!

Was this the set listed by Julian on eBay? If so - good for you for taking to home.

It was.

Mr_Spud · July 1, 2023 8:36PM

Wow, really nice!

Windycity · July 2, 2023 5:05AM

Love it!! Great set.

ricko · July 2, 2023 5:49AM

@FlyingAl... Thanks for posting a great set of coins.... A most significant year for me You were fortunate to find it. Cheers, RickO

FlyingAl · July 2, 2023 7:23AM

I will remove the coins from the cello (removing the staples and letting the coins out the top of the sleeves) and send them to PCGS to be slabbed in series. I think that this is the best reason because:

The cello was never meant to be long term storage. The coins are in a questionable state of preservation, and it is unlikely how they will continue to fare in the years to come.
It will protect the coins for decades to come.
The set will still be together, with the original packaging. It will be instantly recognizable as an original set.
The coins will be able to be viewed and referenced on a consistent basis (as well as better images can be taken). If the coins remain in the cello, the research value could be lowered (since the coins will not be easily accessible). I was asked yesterday a few questions about characteristics of the coins, and it was very difficult to answer with the coins in the cello. Removing them I think is the best way to study them.

Downsides would be the following:

Loss of the true "original set" as it came from the mint. Even this is debatable as the set is missing its box.

It would be incredible if PCGS would put something like "From Original Proof Set" on the label, but it seems unlikely that this would ever happen. @HeatherBoyd - is there anyone I can talk to about that to see if the historical value of this set can be preserved as much as possible?

davewesen · July 2, 2023 8:25AM

very nice set, any chance the nickel or half going CAM ?

FlyingAl · July 2, 2023 8:25AM

@davewesen said:
very nice set, any chance the nickel or half going CAM ?

None.

alaura22 · July 2, 2023 12:27PM

Al, I believe you are making the right choice here. Get them in PCGS slabs and get them in consecutive cert numbers. I would as you mentioned contact PCGS and see if they can put some kind of label on them to signify that they came from a original set
Good luck, can't wait to see the grades on all of them

Kliao · July 2, 2023 1:17PM

Awesome original set. I know @jwitten was able to get a custom holder made for 3 1927 $2.5 Indians a while back as a die progression set for the reverse retained cud. Would be great to keep this set together with a custom holder as well. Good luck!

MFeld · July 2, 2023 1:19PM

@alaura22 said:
Al, I believe you are making the right choice here. Get them in PCGS slabs and get them in consecutive cert numbers. I would as you mentioned contact PCGS and see if they can put some kind of label on them to signify that they came from a original set
Good luck, can't wait to see the grades on all of them

It won’t hurt to ask. But considering that even original sets with packaging materials from the late 19th century/early 20 century haven’t received such labels, it would come as quite a (pleasant) surprise.

CaptHenway · July 2, 2023 1:31PM

Give me a chance to talk to a few of the proof set mavens before you disassemble it.

FlyingAl · July 2, 2023 1:36PM

@CaptHenway said:
Give me a chance to talk to a few of the proof set mavens before you disassemble it.

Absolutely.

Namvet69 · July 2, 2023 1:50PM

An exciting discovery to be sure. Can't wait to see how you decide to holder/ display the group. Good luck. Peace Roy

alaura22 · July 2, 2023 1:56PM

@CaptHenway said:
Give me a chance to talk to a few of the proof set mavens before you disassemble it.

Great advice Capt,
I'm sure with your influence and expertise you will be able to get this set in a proper holder(s) to reflect the originally.

batumi · July 2, 2023 2:16PM

Awesome coins! I have been looking for quite awhile to find a similar '42 proof half to complete my proof walker set. Surprisingly difficult to locate with attractive colors, especially with that blue tinge which I really like.

Martin · July 2, 2023 3:09PM

@FlyingAl
Nice set of coins. What makes this set historic (at least to me) is that it is still in its original cello. If you’re looking to deal it away. I would price it out and see if any proof set collectors would bite. You have estimated some
Lofty grades for the coins. Price them out as slabbed and see if you have interest. Once sent off and put in plastic the become just another proof coin
Nice find and I’m sure you paid up for it so it may be difficult to sell as a ungraded set but if it were me and could afford to keep it I would

Martin

privatecoin · July 2, 2023 3:30PM

lablover · July 2, 2023 4:11PM

In a word...Orgasmic!!!!

Is that okay to say?

Bochiman · July 2, 2023 9:39PM

@Catbert said:
@FlyingAl perhaps you might consider one of those NGC multi coin slabs to house the entire proof set.

That half is just stunning!

IIRC, and I haven't looked lately, PCGS has also done multi-holders. May have to pay extra for the larger slab size now, but if they still do them, and the OP wants them in PCGS, that may be a way.

CaptHenway · July 7, 2023 11:24AM

Finally got to speak with Val Webb, who knows more about Proof Sets than I ever will. He says that the Mint never altered any five coin sets into six coin sets, and agreed that it was probably just a collector who bought a type two nickel later in the year and stapled it on.

So, go ahead and submit the set for slabbing. Good luck.

TD

FlyingAl · July 7, 2023 11:32AM

Alright, I went ahead and removed the coins from the cello. There were quite a few holes in the cello, so I think the decision to remove them was a good call.

My grades from an in hand look:

Half - PR67+

Quarter - PR67+ (technical 68 IMO, but the eye appeal from certain angles could drag it down quite a bit, and a 67 wouldn't be surprising)

Dime - PR66

Nickel (T1) - PR66+

Cent - PR62RD (lots of striations, very few hairlines. I think the graders won't take the time to distinguish between the mint made flaws and hairlines, and you'll end up with a low grade).

erscolo · July 7, 2023 12:29PM

A very nice set, and it has been a very long time since I saw one, even in photographs, of an original set. I am looking, over time, for the 1936 to 1942 Lincoln Cents, so seeing that coin in the cello and after liberation is very beneficial. Thank you for sharing these and for the time and effort.

cameonut2011 · July 7, 2023 2:46PM

It’s a beautiful set, but it is sad to see it broken up. Part of the allure was being intact.

PeakRarities · July 7, 2023 2:58PM

@cameonut2011 said:
It’s a beautiful set, but it is sad to see it broken up. Part of the allure was being intact.

I wouldn't say its being "broken up". The coins are staying together, except now they are preserved and protected for maximum enjoyment. From my conversation with @FlyingAl, he doesn't intend to sell any particular coin unless the next caretaker cares to buy them as a full set. With that, would come the photos of them in the cello, and all freshly graded in slabs with consecutive cert numbers. If he were to keep them in the cello he'd have to put them away and leave them be, as frequent handling carries the risk of more hairlines. Still an original proof set, imo.

SanctionII · July 7, 2023 3:00PM

Thank you for the photos of the coins out of the cello.

I would like to see these coins in hand under good lighting, viewing same through a 5x - 10X loupe. Nothing is better than in hand viewing.

From the photos the silver coins appear to have developed haze and toning that (except for the half dollar) which negatively impacts the eye appeal of the silver coins. The half dollar has blue and green toning that contributes to positive eye appeal. The blue and green toning on the reverse is minimal, leaving most of that side of the coin a pleasing light grey color that displays the eagle very well.

The coins have an "original" look. As we know "original" does not always mean eye appealing. Some may opine that removing the unattractive haze/toning from the dime and quarter is warranted (to "improve" the appearance of the coins). Doing so would make the coins "BW Ricko approved" , but if the coins were struck from worn dies the surface of the coins may not be mirrored. Some dipped silver proofs are just not attractive.

FlyingAl. What do the surfaces of all five coins look like under the haze/toning? Are they deeply mirrored, or are they shallow?

I assume that you will send them in for grading. If so, I look forward to seeing grade results and Trueview photos of the coins.

RLSnapper · July 7, 2023 6:41PM

I know NGC makes multi coin holders. I think this set...documented as original would warrant a special oversized multicoin set holder. If PCGS won't do it..see if NGC would. That guarantees the coins always stay together...as they should.

FlyingAl · July 7, 2023 8:02PM

@cameonut2011 said:
It’s a beautiful set, but it is sad to see it broken up. Part of the allure was being intact.

I see no good reason to keep them in the cello unfortunately. The cello is quickly deteriorating, and the coins with it. The quarter is right on that borderline of gone too far. I'd much rather see the coins preserved and studied rather than being locked away never to be seen again. In one case, we have pictures to look at and deteriorating coins (still in cello). In another case we have a great preserved study set that can be viewed daily, and pictures to look at from the coins being in cello. The set still remains original - @Floridafacelifter has two coins from a 1899? original Proof set that was split up, but due to good images there's no doubt which coins were part of that original set. This 1942 set will not be broken up while I have a say in it, but no matter what happens these coins will trace to this set.

@SanctionII Each coin is deeply mirrored, and all but the quarter are attractive. The quarter, under certain angles, is pleasing. Under most, it's unattractive. Regardless, it will not be dipped, as it's a great example of original toning (which may not be pleasing).

I find NGC's multi-coin holders downright ugly, and I believed they've been discontinued anyways. I'd consider a PCGS holder like they did for a $2.5 die crack progression set a member had here a while ago, but I doubt PCGS would do it.