"Set Premium" is there such a thing?

NeophyteNumismatist · May 23, 2023 10:41AM

I was reading an article and the writer was writing on the value of set building and mentioned something called a "set premium". Essentially, this means that the whole is of greater value than the sum of its parts.

I am not sure I understand that to be true. I thought that the buyer would buy all the dates for what they are worth (individually). Likewise, I would think selling a set to one buyer would much more challenging than to sell individual coins to many buyers.

Is there a buyer who is willing to pay more than the cost of the individual coins if the set is complete? This all feels counter-intuitive.

Batman23 · May 23, 2023 10:47AM

I wouldn't think so. Why pay full price for what would become many duplicates. I think that best money is selling individually to those that want a specific coin. The down side is it might take a lot of time and waiting to sell those more common coins.

NeophyteNumismatist · May 23, 2023 10:56AM

@Batman23 I was thinking the same. Chances are I would not want the full set. AND... the full set that I WOULD want I cannot afford to buy in one shot.

There was no reference given to value of collection... maybe the writer was talking about a set made from coins found in circulation? I could maybe understand someone paying a little over face for a completed State Quarter Collection.

I wish I could find the article now, but while reading it... my thoughts were like yours

MFeld · May 23, 2023 11:04AM

There are "set premiums", but only in a very small percentage of cases.

A few such examples include:
1) Original Proof sets (especially pre-1916) with matched toning.
2) Original three-piece matched P,D, S sets of classic commemorative issues such as Boone, Columbia, Texas, Oregon.
3) Sets with enough top pop or otherwise wonderful and/or elusive coins in them, such that a buyer is motivated to acquire the entire set, rather than hope he can somehow find many of the coins elsewhere.

The main factor working against set premiums (or even fair market value) is that in the vast majority of situations, most buyers only have interest in a very limited number of the coins, so won't have interest in the entire set. In other words, most potential buyers are eliminated at the outset.

neildrobertson · May 23, 2023 11:11AM

Yes. I think the condition of the original government packaging will be more important in the future. In a world of modern coins, things like that are how you can differentiate things.

Anything made after 1982, I pretty much only buy in the government issued state. If it's graded, I want the original packaging still with it. This can be for single coins or sets.

There are also US mint issued sets that were produced in very small numbers, even though the sets themselves contain common coins. In this case the set can also be considerably more appealing then the contains contained therein.

Nic · May 23, 2023 11:19AM

@MFeld said:
There are "set premiums", but only in a very small percentage of cases.

A few such examples include:
1) Original Proof sets (especially pre-1916) with matched toning.
2) Original three-piece matched P,D, S sets of classic commemorative issues such as Boone, Columbia, Texas, Oregon.
3) Sets with enough top pop or otherwise wonderful and/or elusive coins in them, such that a buyer is motivated to acquire the entire set, rather than hope he can somehow find many of the coins elsewhere.

The main factor working against set premiums (or even fair market value) is that in the vast majority of situations, most buyers only have interest in a very limited number of the coins, so won't have interest in the entire set. In other words, most potential buyers are eliminated at the outset.

This. Well said Coinguy.

keyman64 · May 23, 2023 11:58AM

I recall this being discussed in some way in another thread. It was something about selling as a group opposed to individually. The examples Mark provided above are spot on.

Here is another example. This set will sell for more intact than it would with each coin individually…once I have a well matched cent added.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/334418

keyman64 · May 23, 2023 12:01PM

I would also add that there is likely some type of diminishing premium for certain sets, the larger they get. A set premium will be very different between a 6 coin set and a 108 coin set etc. The larger the set, the less potential there is in premium.

Cougar1978 · May 23, 2023 12:25PM

I have seen a number of sets marketed with a tack on for acquisition work. Like an extra shop charge on a luxury car extra time & materials.

A friend had put together a complete Oregon Trail PCGS Set MS 65 - 66 grades for his shop. Many of them cherry picked off the bourse taking a material amount of time. Pieces, blast white gems, PQ with super cartwheel luster - very impressive! He priced it at CF for each piece plus a 15 pct complete set tack on. Sort of like a tip for the waiter. Why not lol? It sold in a few weeks to a guy who owned a strip club where he was VIP. He did something similar with a Texas Commem Set that sold to a guy who ran an Italian restaurant.

Smudge · May 23, 2023 12:27PM

I would love to have the Pan Pac set in the original holder.

wondercoin · May 23, 2023 1:32PM

After just watching the original 1888 proof set, sold in its entirety this past Sunday, bring no set premium whatsoever (including the Vintage custom case from the time of issue), I would answer that “set premiums” are virtually non-existent at this point. Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

breakdown · May 23, 2023 1:48PM

It may be a different context but maybe the author meant a “set premium” to refer to what I would think of as a “collection premium” in which individual coins in a collection of a particular set (think registry set) are auctioned with individual pieces attributed to one collector. If potential buyers perceive that the consignor was a discerning collector, there will be a premium associated with each of the coins in the set.
The GC auction of Stewart Blay’s Lincolns is a good example.

NeophyteNumismatist · May 23, 2023 2:11PM

@breakdown - I didn't necessarily mean that the coins are sold from a famous collection. Well known collectors listed on a holder tends to put a premium on a coin. I meant this as generically as it sounds... (i.e. A completed set of XXX is worth XX% more than those same individual coins before the set was completed). The way the information was presented is that any set... once completed is worth more than the sum of its parts.

It sounds like there may be a few exceptions, but for the most part this is not true (based on the responses in this thread).

NeophyteNumismatist · May 23, 2023 2:19PM

I found one reference to "set premium" but not the same one I was reading the other night:

https://www.pcgs.com/news/set-building-the-best-strategy-for-maximizing-fun-and-long

"The fact is that complete sets are worth more than individual coins. When it's time to sell, the total set is worth more than the sum of its parts. The "set premium" depends on the importance of the set and the quality of the coins in the set. Sometimes the set premium is small, but sometimes it is huge... up to double the value of the individual coins."

Double? That just seems very strange unless it's a "condition census" set.

DisneyFan · May 23, 2023 2:50PM

@MFeld said:
There are "set premiums", but only in a very small percentage of cases.

A few such examples include:
1) Original Proof sets (especially pre-1916) with matched toning.
2) Original three-piece matched P,D, S sets of classic commemorative issues such as Boone, Columbia, Texas, Oregon.
3) Sets with enough top pop or otherwise wonderful and/or elusive coins in them, such that a buyer is motivated to acquire the entire set, rather than hope he can somehow find many of the coins elsewhere.

The main factor working against set premiums (or even fair market value) is that in the vast majority of situations, most buyers only have interest in a very limited number of the coins, so won't have interest in the entire set. In other words, most potential buyers are eliminated at the outset.

Mark Feld said it well. I recall in the early 2000s, David Hall promoted coins; especially Classic Commemoratives, this way. He referred to collectors who would put together sets, sell them for a profit and then repeat the process. He recently made a similar argument regarding a set of Barber Dimes that were up for auction at the time.

I do believe that individual coins from a complete or nearly complete difficult coin series will sell better than "orphan" coins from the same series. The completeness of the set will attract more interested buyers who may find more than one coin of interest.

Project Numismatics · May 23, 2023 3:01PM

@DisneyFan said:
I do believe that individual coins from a complete or nearly complete difficult coin series will sell better than "orphan" coins from the same series. The completeness of the set will attract more interested buyers who may find more than one coin of interest.

I always pay extra attention when a complete set or mostly complete set is auctioned because of the opportunity to acquire multiple pieces that I need. For example, I am unlikely to sit through an auction at the computer to pick up one relatively common barber dime for my set, but if there are 5+ pieces that I need, especially semi key dates, I am far more likely to prioritize the auction so that I can bid live.

WCC · May 23, 2023 3:44PM

@Project Numismatics said:

@DisneyFan said:
I do believe that individual coins from a complete or nearly complete difficult coin series will sell better than "orphan" coins from the same series. The completeness of the set will attract more interested buyers who may find more than one coin of interest.

I always pay extra attention when a complete set or mostly complete set is auctioned because of the opportunity to acquire multiple pieces that I need. For example, I am unlikely to sit through an auction at the computer to pick up one relatively common barber dime for my set, but if there are 5+ pieces that I need, especially semi key dates, I am far more likely to prioritize the auction so that I can bid live.

Such a sale can be both positive and negative. It's positive for coins that are actually hard to buy since it's one of the few opportunities to buy it, but this doesn't apply to more than a very low minority. The downside is that if the sale is of a very prominent collection for the series, it potentially results in noticeably higher prices which increase the risk of overpaying or sets a new price level for future acquisitions.

Tramp · May 23, 2023 3:56PM

@MFeld

I think this one falls into the category you mentioned. I think the price on this set includes a set premium at $385,000. If only I had the money:

https://www.daltongoldsilver.com/prodimg.php?pcode=111202

MFeld · May 23, 2023 3:57PM

@NeophyteNumismatist said:
I found one reference to "set premium" but not the same one I was reading the other night:

https://www.pcgs.com/news/set-building-the-best-strategy-for-maximizing-fun-and-long

"The fact is that complete sets are worth more than individual coins. When it's time to sell, the total set is worth more than the sum of its parts. The "set premium" depends on the importance of the set and the quality of the coins in the set. Sometimes the set premium is small, but sometimes it is huge... up to double the value of the individual coins."

Double? That just seems very strange unless it's a "condition census" set.

Based on what I’ve seen and heard during more than 40 years in the business, I believe that the above quoted statement is incorrect far more often than it’s correct. The large majority of buyers either don’t want to acquire complete sets at one time or can’t afford them. So it takes very unusual circumstances for sellers to overcome those obstacles and obtain more for complete sets.

Cougar1978 · May 23, 2023 5:28PM

Absolutely - Set Premium is standard in the industry. Like tipping your waiter. They don’t put ‘em together for free.

Friend Recently sold 4 pc Cali Commem Set from bourse room table all PCGS MS64 / marked up addl 16 pct over CPG. The 2 SD issues, California and Baybridge. His custom write up describing them, super La Jolla scene as background plus Marketing Letter. Bright white investment grade coins cherry picked for quality.

Sapyx · May 23, 2023 6:25PM

Most coin dealers I know derive a large part of their profits from buying completed "sets" cheaply from collectors, breaking the sets up, and selling the coins individually.

They wouldn't be doing this if "set premiums" were normal.

Speaking for myself, I know that if I'm looking at a "set" for sale, and I already own examples of half the coins in the set, those "duplicates" will hold a negative value for me - because I don't want them, and I'm then going to have to go to the effort of getting rid of them.

I suspect most set-completionist collectors would think likewise. The only people I can think of who might pay a premium for an already-completed set are investors who are just getting in on the game, with loads of cash but who don't actually own any of the coins yet; they are essentially paying a coin expert to assemble the sets for them.

BillJones · May 24, 2023 3:36AM

In most cases, I don’t think that there is a “set premium.” If anything there might be a “set penalty.” If you have a comple set that you are trying to sell, it’s been my experience that the common coins get lost in the shuffle, and don’t get much of anything for them. The dealer looks at the key coins, prices them and the rest are “throwed in” like Colneral Sanders used to do with chicken wings.

If there is a “set premium,” it would be for the items that @MFeld covered plus something like a war nickel set. There the presentation might add something to the value, at least on the retail level.

PerryHall · May 24, 2023 4:37AM

The correct answer is "it depends on the set". For example, if it's a 10 piece double Pan-Pac Expo commemorative set in the original frame or an all denomination pattern set struck in aluminum, there is most certainly a set premium. If it's a set of circulated Lincoln cents, there will not be a set premium as most dealers will price it base on the value of the key and semi-key dates and the more common dates will be lost in the shuffle as Bill Jones pointed out.

gumby1234 · May 24, 2023 4:54AM

Some people may pay a small premium for a full set that is well matched instead of taking years to locate each coin and assemble the set.

Project Numismatics · May 24, 2023 5:05AM

Interesting listen on lessons learned from selling a complete set:

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/626950

The M&S Petty Collection, built by Stephen Petty and his son, Mark, numbers among the few complete sets of Seated dollars ever assembled. Sold by Legend Rare Coin Auctions in July 2022, the set included the ultra-rare 1870-S dollar, previously owned by F. C. C. Boyd, and by far the finest known examples of the 1850-O dollar. In this presentation, Stephen Petty shares lessons learned from the formation and sale of this remarkable set. Speaker: Stephen Petty.

ricko · May 24, 2023 5:28AM

The sets I have done in the past, were of individually acquired coins... The few full sets I saw back then, were priced too high for me. Also, at the time, the hunt was part of the fun. Living out West, there were plenty of coin shows. If I were to build a set now, I would still do it piece by piece. Cheers, RickO

"Set Premium" is there such a thing?

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