I'm getting weird on gold coins.
FrankH
Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've always collected gold coins. Actually ALL coins. Copper, gold, silver.
Primarily heavy on gold.
But....lately.... it's not even an "affordability" issue. I just seem to see other uses for the money that would be more fun.
When I started collecting, $20s were 60 bucks. Fives ran around $35.
Even at $1200-$1500 or so, Double Eagles didn't seem out of line with collecting fun vs. other fun. 
But now, looking at $5 indians in 63 for $1500....... just no excitement. 
Weird.
4
Comments
I don't have a large gold collection - in fact it's modest. I am a seller in this market and plan to shift proceeds to other areas that have softened.
Recent Legend market report is interesting: https://www.legendnumismatics.com/market_reports/gold-still-rules/
Geez, when was gold this cheap?
I certainly remember when it was around $200/oz.
Was this before it was legalized, in the early 1970s?
US gold was legal. Quantities were what was restricted for confiscation.
Didn’t know the particulars, as I was just 8 years old. I do remember hearing it on the national news at the time.
Of course back then, it didn’t matter how much gold was, it was out of my league.😳
Even then, I knew that’s what I wanted to collect, just didn’t quite know how I was going to get there.😂
I’ve been weird on gold for quite a while now.
I love my gold coin collection and can remember buying each one of them too. Now I’m old and my gold coin collection has blossomed into something special. If I could take them with me when I pass on I would. Yes, I like them that much.
I have completed my date run of the Indian half eagles. I take them out and enjoy them often. What else can you do with them beside look and share them?
Here’s one of my favorites from that half eagle date run.
It's not strange at all. It's an "opportunity cost" issue. What other benefit could you get for that $1500. And it's not just having one of them, it's having 5-10 of them so it could be a $15,000 issue at 10 coins.
It's amazing that you could get double eagles for $60 and half eagles for $35! That's way less than nice Civil War Tokens and even Dan Carr pieces today!
In that price range, for nice MS pieces, I'd probably collect uncataloged, MS, slabbed So-Called Half Dollars and then make a catalog, which I actually want to do but have no time at the moment.
When I started collecting better coins in the mid 1950s, you could buy really nice Mint State common date U.S. gold coins for less than $50 each. I paid $31 for a $5 liberty gold that would be called an MS-63 or 64, and that was a high retail number. Mint State Liberty and Indian $10 gold coins were just under $50. I paid $75 for double eagles, and that was a high number. They were $49.95 in the magazine ads, but those coins were pretty marked up.
The big thing you had to worry about was counterfeits, especially for coins like gold dollars and three dollar gold pieces. I made the $3 coins bright because they were the worst. There was a place in Lebanon that was turning them out like crazy. They were made of gold, but they were bad.
For that reason I only bought from established dealers, and paid what was then top dollar.
Amazing coins! If each one is special, like it seems it is with your collection, it can be a worthy endeavour.
@FrankH not really weird at all, I am getting closer to retirement age and I find it more and more difficult to pull the trigger on gold. I have bought a few pieces over the past few years but it takes more and more convincing to do it. I have a complete 2 1/2 raw gold indian set in a capital plastic holder, all AU and bought for around $125 each sans the 11-d. When I think what it would cost to do that small set now, I'm not sure I would want to.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I am not comfortable with the high price of gold bullion, but maybe this is "the new normal." I've been collecting for 64 years, and I have seen go up and down, sometimes way down from where it was.
I bought the Negro Leagues $5 gold coin last year, but that was only new piece I bought. All of the others were at least 200 years old.
Here, I thought the first 2 $20 Liberties I bought at $360 each in 2001 was cheap compared to today. They were/still are raw.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
That Bank of England dump was sure a great opportunity.
Think it was $252 or thereabouts. Loved it.
That $2.50 set is a great thing to have.
I'm the same way with gold lately. I'm planning to buy a nice Indian quarter Eagle, and after that I don't know.
I also need an Indian $10 and Liberty $20 for my slabbed sets. I actually have both raw. Rather than spend money on nice slabbed MS ones, I'm tempted to just pay the grading fees for my raw ones. They could come back xf-au details, but it'd be a way to fill those holes in my type sets without paying the hefty price for big gold coins.
Everything is more expensive. When I was a kid a NYC subway token, a pack of baseball cards, and a candy bar cost a nickel. I remember buying uncirculated common date Morgans for $3-4.
Addendum: I get what you’re saying. I’ve lived in the same house for 25 years. I wouldn’t feel very comfortable buying my first house in Southern California today.
I remember getting Morgan and Peace Dollars for face value at the bank and you could get all that you wanted. Damn I'm old.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Made a small edit to my post and it just disappeared. I’ll try this again.
That’s amazing to read. I would love to go back in time for just a little
while and pick up some 20s for that kind of moneys.
Thanks for sharing, those really were “the good ‘ol day” when it came to buying gold.
Before they made the law change, what quantity of gold were you allowed to have without concern of confiscation?
I thought it had to do with collectible gold versus investment gold, where the former was allowed. Is this not right?
I also recall that time period and being offered 10 ounces of gold in a local shop. It was closing due to the low amount of business ($290 an ounce). Alls I could afford at the time was silver coins and 1 ounce of gold. Count me into the Wired and Weird Gold crowd:
I've only been collecting "rare" gold coins for about 5 years. It's kinda crazy to hear you guys reminiscing about decades-old prices.
It feels like the pool of collectors competing for nice gold coins has increased dramatically since 2020. I don't see prices coming down soon.
My own collecting journey took me from a decade of bullion accumulation into a high grade type set. I suspect there are a lot of other bullion "collectors" out there right now that will eventually make their way to rare coins.
If you are looking at cac-approved gold (admittedly only a sliver of the market, but the sliver that I play in) the populations of a coins in collectible series and grades are small. Look at $5 indians in 64 for example. There aren't enough coins for even 100 collectors to assemble a date set in 64. The increasing collector base will continue to squeeze prices (in my humble opinion).
I don't think it take a lot of math or clairvoyance to see the future here. More collectors, higher prices for better coins.
I would love to see lower prices, I have a lot of coins left to go to finish my sets. As a data point for you all talking about $200 Saints, my average buy price for 64 cac $5 indians (nice ones) is currently about $4200 each across 6 coins. They are only getting tougher to find. I'll predict that the only $5 indian in 64 cac you'll be able to purchase under $5k in another year will be the ubiquitous 09-D.
Instagram
There were no restrictions in the 1960s. You could buy as much as you wanted. Oddly, the “numismatic gurus” said that these were not good investments. They were safe investments. I think issue was totally settled circa 1954, but I was 5 and not a collector.
It made no sense to buy circulated, common date gold because the Mint State pieces cost very little more. “Choice Uncirculated” even “Gem Uncirculated” cost very little more. For less than $5 more, you got a coin that was worth thousands more later.
If trends continue (and most likely will) just imagine what the value of gold coins will be in the not too far off future. Just in the past 20 years, gold has gone from $350/oz to $2,000/oz.
The US household income in the same period has only doubled from $43,000 to $80,000. So, if you purchased gold during that time, you made a very wise investment! I cannot see this trend changing. In fact, it will likely continue for the foreseeable future. In fact, it will likely accelerate, as the dollar loses it's value world-wide.
I bought this from a customer for five figures. My bullion customers thought I was nuts when I told them it's only $90 worth of gold, by weight. Another dealer bought it for five figures plus, from me.
Gold is pricey. But, oh so beautiful. One caveat: it didn't have a sticker and was in an NGC holder. If that makes any difference. That's 2 caveats
When I first began buying coins, $10 Indians were in the $50-60 range, which seemed high because $20 Saints were $75, which is what I paid for my first one in 1968. I sold it when I bought a house in 1979, just as the gold and silver boom was picking up steam. In early 1967, legendary silver dollar dealer John Love was selling common dates in BU for $1.60; a year later they were up to $2.45, and he was predicting a price of $3.20 for 1969. He sold choice and PL coins at a premium.
You don’t like MS63 $5 Indians at $1500 you must have been snoozing when they were much more than that.
Don't you think someone said the exact same thing in 1979?
Ah the good old days.... Yes, I was around for those days, and fortunately, still around. Not sure how far, or for how long, the current gold trajectory will last. A lot depends on geo-economic politics. Meanwhile, some gold sales may be in the future. Cheers, RickO
Market timing is for futures and mining stocks.
Physical bullion is for future security.
RARE gold coins don't follow the spot price in lockstep.
I'm more comfy buying rare gold than bullion at this time. I bought the bullion from 60-1200. After reaching goal, I haven't been buying more bullion but pick up some rare gold at times.
When I consider rare gold, it's either early gold or more modern that isn't available in quantity.
That's why the US Mint should find a way to have a modern Saint series just like there's a modern Morgan/Peace series...
Gold may have cost less, but everything was less including earnings.
They might have said it, but gold goes down when the dollar is strong, and in the 1980's, our economy boomed, so gold lost value. This is definitely NOT the case today. China is pushing to have the Yen take over the Dollars place as worldwide reserve currency, and will most likely happen. When it does, gold and silver will go up, and probably by quite a bit.
Yen is Japanese. I think you mean the Yuan.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yep! I have not had my coffee yet. Sorry about that.
Gold was pegged at $35 per ounce by the US government for a long time. 1934-1970 or there abouts. And silver $1.29
On Aug. 15 1971 President Nixon "temporarily" suspended the gold standard. We are still under this "temporary" suspension.
After 65 years of collecting coins (mostly copper, silver and nickel coins), I just started seriously collecting gold coins in 2022 and plan to sell some of my other coins to get more gold coins as fiat currency is becoming more and more inflated every day. Paper with no backing anymore. I will gladly pay fiat paper money for gold. Gold has never lost its value. Paper money always has. If the government needs money and cannot get enough thru taxation and fees, they just print it.
I too am very pessimistic on this economy now and continuing into the future. I believe we haven’t bottomed out and have a lot further to go.
Historically, gold is expensive but I have repositioned assets around and feel quiet comfortable accumulating both bullion and rare coins, primarily Double Eagles. If I’m wrong and gold tanks, it won’t be the first thing I ever lost money on.
But for now, I’m happy being more heavy in gold.
If gold tanks, so will everything else.
😳 Just scanning over that wish list I noticed a BU 1889-CC Morgan for $945. Did a quick check on the CAC price guide and that could possibly be a $300K+ coin today! Wow!
You might want to check the time period from 1985-1995.
Yes that would be the time to buy gold. I am talking about In the long run. Of course there are variants from time to time but paper money cannot pick up value unless the government reinstates some sort of value to it.
JP Morgan "only gold is money, everything else is just credit" Best to believe this statement.
Gold may go up and down, but it never loses its value. Paper money does. I don't know when, but it will happen, maybe soon or maybe far in the future, but paper money will have had it's run. Gold will always have value. I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. You might want to learn what happened to German currency after WWI. The gold and silver coins kept their value and the paper money went poop.
Adjusted for inflation, the price of gold is lower than its high in 1980.
I think it’s natural that if you’ve been involved in any hobby for a long time you shake your head at the pricing today versus 30,40 or 50 years ago.
I use to fly planes recreationally. Back in the 1980’s I started taking flying lessons you could rent a plane with an instructor for $30-$35/hour. Today it’s more like $150/hour. Same same or worse type of increase with coins, especially gold coins. Not quite but significant increases in price for ammo if you’ve been shooting for a long time. This tends to discourage older folks from pulling the trigger on coins or ammo when you remember buying 22lr for $0.05/round.
@pmh1nic
“ ammo when you remember buying 22lr for $0.05/round.”
Not been all that many years ago that I bought Remington Golden 22lr in a box of 550 for around $10, at Walmart. Let’s just say I stocked up on them babies!😂
Will they still work ?
You betcha! Hot as a fire cracker!
You keep ammo dry and it will keep for years! The primer is the more sensitive part of the shell.
I’ve shot ammo, even center fire stuff that was 25-30 yrs. old with no problem. Of course you will occasionally have a dud but that will happen with new stuff.