? For hard core CAC guys.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 6:37PM

You only buy CAC. A coin is reholdered was CAC now no bean but can be confirmed on CAC website. Would you still buy it ?

Floridafacelifter · February 13, 2023 6:42PM

I’ve run into this situation and made a deal with the seller- I’ll buy the coin if you send it back to CAC for a sticker before shipping it to me. I don’t like to ship coins.

UncleJoe · February 13, 2023 6:42PM

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 6:46PM

Replacement sticker is only $5 but postage to someone who is allowed to send to CAC then to CAC and back is well over $50 probably $75.

lermish · February 13, 2023 7:02PM

@JimTyler said:
You only buy CAC. A coin is reholdered was CAC now no bean but can be confirmed on CAC website. Would you still buy it ?

I wouldn't define myself as a hardcore CAC guy but I'm certainly a fan. And yes absolutely, just figure out the price of shipping and include that in the offer.

By the way, I'm almost 100% certain that anyone can send a coin back in to be restickered (same cert#, already approved) whether they are a member or not.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 7:06PM

By the way, I'm almost 100% certain that anyone can send a coin back in to be restickered (same cert#, already approved) whether they are a member or not.
Not true, I sent them an email and asked.

pcgscacgold · February 13, 2023 7:10PM

I would not buy it until it had the CAC sticker placed back on it. I have no ability to send things in to CAC.

Only my junk gold is sticker free.

No Headlights · February 13, 2023 7:27PM

Sure. Fairly easy and inexpensive to get stickered under your Scenario.

Cougar1978 · February 13, 2023 7:38PM

Most likely no. But would not pay over non CAC bid. Get the sticker on it if u want the CAC money.

DeplorableDan · February 13, 2023 7:55PM

This uncommon scenario would raise questions for me. I would wonder WHY. The submitter of the coin could easily submit the coin again and get the sticker re applied, so why do they need to sell it with such haste? They couldn’t wait two more weeks to send it back again?

If that was the case, I would probably use the @Floridafacelifter method and agree to buy it contingent on re stickering prior to acceptance. Otherwise, I would only buy it only at a discount to full CAC money, and if I really loved the coin, being under the assumption that some type of risk is involved.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 7:58PM

@Cougar1978 said:
Most likely no. But would not pay over non CAC bid. Get the sticker on it if u want the CAC money.

Some of you guys really drank the kool aide. Meeting their standards means little apparently you need the little green booger.

Cougar1978 · February 13, 2023 8:01PM

Sorry guess this issue for some Einstein of CACdom.

DeplorableDan · February 13, 2023 8:03PM

@JimTyler said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Most likely no. But would not pay over non CAC bid. Get the sticker on it if u want the CAC money.

Some of you guys really drank the kool aide. Meeting their standards means little apparently you need the little green booger.

What is the purpose of this thread? Was it your sole intention to solicit opinions, and then insult the collectors who took the time to reply?

coinbuf · February 13, 2023 8:04PM

No I would not require the sticker, but I would deduct for the cost to get the sticker reapplied. And that is only true because I can submit, if I was not able to I would then deduct more to cover the possible extra cost to have it done for me. It is quite possible in your scenario that the seller doesn't have the ability to submit to CAC, but that should not require me to bear that extra cost.

Cougar1978 · February 13, 2023 8:13PM

In the real world at a show one would need the sticker on the holder get any kind of CAC money.

At my table no sticker no CAC money. Consistency rules.

jmlanzaf · February 13, 2023 8:16PM

@DeplorableDan said:
This uncommon scenario would raise questions for me. I would wonder WHY. The submitter of the coin could easily submit the coin again and get the sticker re applied, so why do they need to sell it with such haste? They couldn’t wait two more weeks to send it back again?

If that was the case, I would probably use the @Floridafacelifter method and agree to buy it contingent on re stickering prior to acceptance. Otherwise, I would only buy it only at a discount to full CAC money, and if I really loved the coin, being under the assumption that some type of risk is involved.

Maybe for the same reason you wouldn't want to send it in: added cost that would not be recouped in the sale.

steveben · February 13, 2023 8:17PM

if i was selling it, i would get the sticker back on it.

jmlanzaf · February 13, 2023 8:22PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@JimTyler said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Most likely no. But would not pay over non CAC bid. Get the sticker on it if u want the CAC money.

Some of you guys really drank the kool aide. Meeting their standards means little apparently you need the little green booger.

What is the purpose of this thread? Was it your sole intention to solicit opinions, and then insult the collectors who took the time to reply?

Agree.

@JimTyler Would you pay the same money for a coin after it is broken out of the holder, if you KNEW it had been in the PCGS holder prior? Or is that just different Kool Aid? Your favorite flavor.

There is no Kool Aid involved. I would buy a stickerless reholder but not at CAC prices because it would be hard to achieve CAC prices without the sticker. In fact, half of you would assume the holder was a counterfeit if it was supposed to have a CAC sticker and didn't. Either I have to spend money to get the CAC reapplied or I have to someday try to sell it without the sticker. Either way it is worth less.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 8:23PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@JimTyler said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Most likely no. But would not pay over non CAC bid. Get the sticker on it if u want the CAC money.

Some of you guys really drank the kool aide. Meeting their standards means little apparently you need the little green booger.

What is the purpose of this thread? Was it your sole intention to solicit opinions, and then insult the collectors who took the time to reply?

I guess that’s what I did, sorry, I just thought meeting the standards would be the most important, I was wrong and surprised.

Catbert · February 13, 2023 8:26PM

Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

Regarding “hardcore”, most of my coins are stickered but not all. Any coin valued at 1K or more does have a bean and that status does provide some market downside protection.

Cougar1978 · February 13, 2023 8:26PM

Do u think somebody will sell counterfeit sticker sheets one day? Scary huh.

jmlanzaf · February 13, 2023 8:28PM

@JimTyler said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@JimTyler said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Most likely no. But would not pay over non CAC bid. Get the sticker on it if u want the CAC money.

Some of you guys really drank the kool aide. Meeting their standards means little apparently you need the little green booger.

What is the purpose of this thread? Was it your sole intention to solicit opinions, and then insult the collectors who took the time to reply?

I guess that’s what I did, sorry, I just thought meeting the standards would be the most important and I was wrong and surprised.

It's not "wrong", but it is a price issue.

DeplorableDan · February 13, 2023 8:28PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@DeplorableDan said:
This uncommon scenario would raise questions for me. I would wonder WHY. The submitter of the coin could easily submit the coin again and get the sticker re applied, so why do they need to sell it with such haste? They couldn’t wait two more weeks to send it back again?

If that was the case, I would probably use the @Floridafacelifter method and agree to buy it contingent on re stickering prior to acceptance. Otherwise, I would only buy it only at a discount to full CAC money, and if I really loved the coin, being under the assumption that some type of risk is involved.

Maybe for the same reason you wouldn't want to send it in: added cost that would not be recouped in the sale.

My opinion is based on my experience with the coins I collect. I don’t how to make this not sound pompous, but CAC has much more of an impact on liquidity and value with gold >3k than it does with a common Morgan in 65. If we’re talking about a $300-$500 dollar coin, I might accept that rationale from the seller but when we’re talking about an $6000 PQ coin, with a 10-20% bean premium, the excuse of wanting to save $75 doesn’t really fly for me.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 8:28PM

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

Regarding “hardcore”, most of my coins are stickered but not all. Any coin valued at 1K or more does have a bean and that status does provide some market downside protection.

I stated in this scenario the coin has been reholdered, no one just removed a sticker.

jmlanzaf · February 13, 2023 8:30PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@DeplorableDan said:
This uncommon scenario would raise questions for me. I would wonder WHY. The submitter of the coin could easily submit the coin again and get the sticker re applied, so why do they need to sell it with such haste? They couldn’t wait two more weeks to send it back again?

If that was the case, I would probably use the @Floridafacelifter method and agree to buy it contingent on re stickering prior to acceptance. Otherwise, I would only buy it only at a discount to full CAC money, and if I really loved the coin, being under the assumption that some type of risk is involved.

Maybe for the same reason you wouldn't want to send it in: added cost that would not be recouped in the sale.

My opinion is based on my experience with the coins I collect. I don’t how to make this not sound pompous, but CAC has much more of an impact on liquidity and value with gold >3k than it does with a common Morgan in 65. If we’re talking about a $300-$500 dollar coin, I might accept that rationale from the seller but when we’re talking about an $6000 PQ coin, with a 10-20% bean premium, the excuse of wanting to save $75 doesn’t really fly for me.

Fair enough. But the OP never specified the coin, did he?

lermish · February 13, 2023 8:30PM

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious/curious if it was an older holder though.

Catbert · February 13, 2023 8:30PM

@JimTyler said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

Regarding “hardcore”, most of my coins are stickered but not all. Any coin valued at 1K or more does have a bean and that status does provide some market downside protection.

I stated in this scenario the coin has been reholdered, no one just removed a sticker.

Ok, so it has a different cert number then? If I like the coin and it’s below 1K, then I’d buy it regardless of the CAC “story” history.

Cougar1978 · February 13, 2023 8:33PM

I can see same issue if CAC coin goes bad in holder then gets conserved and now they arguing about will it sticker. won’t this be Planet Cacster reality in few years.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 8:33PM

@Catbert said:

@JimTyler said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

Regarding “hardcore”, most of my coins are stickered but not all. Any coin valued at 1K or more does have a bean and that status does provide some market downside protection.

I stated in this scenario the coin has been reholdered, no one just removed a sticker.

Ok, so it has a different cert number then? If I like the coin and it’s below 1K, then I’d buy it regardless of the CAC “story” history.

Same cert number or you wouldn’t be able to verify at CAC.

DeplorableDan · February 13, 2023 8:34PM

@lermish said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious if it was an older holder though.

Of course, that’s a very common reason why they wouldn’t be currently stickered. Just for the purpose of this thread (which is yet to be determined), would you ever try to sell them prior to having them re stickered? And let’s say that you did, would you ever have an issue offering to re submit yourself prior to shipping?

jmlanzaf · February 13, 2023 8:34PM

@Catbert said:

@JimTyler said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

Regarding “hardcore”, most of my coins are stickered but not all. Any coin valued at 1K or more does have a bean and that status does provide some market downside protection.

I stated in this scenario the coin has been reholdered, no one just removed a sticker.

Ok, so it has a different cert number then? If I like the coin and it’s below 1K, then I’d buy it regardless of the CAC “story” history.

No. Same cert #

lermish · February 13, 2023 8:38PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@lermish said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious if it was an older holder though.

Of course, that’s a very common reason why they wouldn’t be currently stickered. Just for the purpose of this thread, would you ever try to sell them prior to having them re stickered? And let’s say that you did, would you ever have an issue offering to re submit yourself prior to shipping?

It depends who I would be selling to and the venue. If it's a friend, or someone I know who has submitting capabilities and they were okay with it I might not and give them a discount for the hassle. If it was going out into the wide world via BST or auction or whatever I would definitely have it restickered first.

Edit - If it was condition of sale that I must resticker first then yes of course I would do it, I would have no problem with that. If I did have an issue, I just don't agree to the sale.

ChrisH821 · February 13, 2023 8:41PM

Whos cares if the sticker is actually on there, just look it up if you have to prove it. If someone refuses a coin just because the sticker isn't physically on the holder but can be verified I would consider them to be unreasonable in that case.

Catbert · February 13, 2023 8:45PM

@JimTyler said:

@Catbert said:

@JimTyler said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

Regarding “hardcore”, most of my coins are stickered but not all. Any coin valued at 1K or more does have a bean and that status does provide some market downside protection.

I stated in this scenario the coin has been reholdered, no one just removed a sticker.

Ok, so it has a different cert number then? If I like the coin and it’s below 1K, then I’d buy it regardless of the CAC “story” history.

Same cert number or you wouldn’t be able to verify at CAC.

Sorry Jim. I overlooked that from your initial post. Sure, the sticker being gone wouldn’t be a problem for me.

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 8:45PM

@DeplorableDan said:

@lermish said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious if it was an older holder though.

Of course, that’s a very common reason why they wouldn’t be currently stickered. Just for the purpose of this thread (which is yet to be determined), would you ever try to sell them prior to having them re stickered? And let’s say that you did, would you ever have an issue offering to re submit yourself prior to shipping?

The reason for this thread was to determine the importance of the physical bean compared to meeting CAC standards.

DeplorableDan · February 13, 2023 8:55PM

@lermish said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@lermish said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious if it was an older holder though.

Of course, that’s a very common reason why they wouldn’t be currently stickered. Just for the purpose of this thread, would you ever try to sell them prior to having them re stickered? And let’s say that you did, would you ever have an issue offering to re submit yourself prior to shipping?

It depends who I would be selling to and the venue. If it's a friend, or someone I know who has submitting capabilities and they were okay with it I might not and give them a discount for the hassle. If it was going out into the wide world via BST or auction or whatever I would definitely have it restickered first.

Edit - If it was condition of sale that I must resticker first then yes of course I would do it, I would have no problem with that. If I did have an issue, I just don't agree to the sale.

Completely agree, and that’s why the original discussion really accomplishes little. If I was buying one of your coins and you told me you hadn’t gotten around to sending back in yet, I would just buy the coin. If I was buying from a vest pocket dealer trying to tell me he wanted to save $75 but still asking full CAC money, I would be suspicious.

@JimTyler said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@lermish said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious if it was an older holder though.

Of course, that’s a very common reason why they wouldn’t be currently stickered. Just for the purpose of this thread (which is yet to be determined), would you ever try to sell them prior to having them re stickered? And let’s say that you did, would you ever have an issue offering to re submit yourself prior to shipping?

The reason for this thread was to determine the importance of the physical bean compared to meeting CAC standards.

Each situation would depend on the coin itself, and has different variables that would need to be considered in order to make an informed decision. There were no circumstances or context provided with the original post, and I don’t see how this discussion can be useful without applying it to a specific example. Some might call me a “hardcore” cac guy but I have, and will continue to buy coins without a bean if I like the coin and the price is right. In the realm of coins that I collect, the majority of PQ coins have stickers, and they bring more money. It’s just the way the market is, and I’ve found a strategy that works for me and makes me happy. I’m just a player of this game, I’m not the one that made the rules 🙂

JimTyler · February 13, 2023 9:07PM

You sure have a lot to say for not finding it useful

DeplorableDan · February 13, 2023 9:19PM

@JimTyler said:
You sure have a lot to say for not finding it useful

Though I think this is a troll post, I never said it wasn’t a good one 😉

jmlanzaf · February 14, 2023 4:58AM

@JimTyler said:

@DeplorableDan said:

@lermish said:

@Catbert said:
Very odd to me why one would remove the sticker and I too would be suspicious. However, if the cert matches to the CAC database and I had return privileges if something was awry, I’d buy it if the coin was compelling. I have CAC submission privileges.

I have a box of coins that are approved but missing stickers because I had them re-holdered and true views taken. They'll all make their way back to get fresh stickers applied shortly but nothing nefarious. I would be suspicious if it was an older holder though.

Of course, that’s a very common reason why they wouldn’t be currently stickered. Just for the purpose of this thread (which is yet to be determined), would you ever try to sell them prior to having them re stickered? And let’s say that you did, would you ever have an issue offering to re submit yourself prior to shipping?

The reason for this thread was to determine the importance of the physical bean compared to meeting CAC standards.

What about meeting PCGS standards vs being in the physical slab? Wouldn't you expect to pay less for a cracked out coin Eben if the label and TV unequivocally established that it had been in the slab prior?

Heck,, people want a discount on a chipped or scratched slab, even if the coin viewing is unaffected. And it makes sense if they will have to reholder.

Indianlincoln · February 14, 2023 5:30AM

I like cac coins. There is no doubt. But I would have to look at the coin

Sort of like this. Cac doesn’t especially matter to me, if I like the coin I Buy it

Cac is more like an easy way to sell to the next person

ElmerFusterpuck · February 14, 2023 6:29AM

I have a coin that kind of fits this scenario. Some time back I won in an auction a PCGS AU-55 1824/4 bust half with a green bean - but the holder did not have the variety noted (it was a slightly older blue holder). I got it reholdered at a Long Beach show; it was treated as a mechanical error and the service was free. It also has a TrueView. I upgraded this coin and wanted it to show in my registry, that's why I wanted it done. I haven't sent this coin back to CAC to be restickered, since I'm not a member. Maybe one day, but it's not high on my priority list now. It's still the same coin.

oreville · February 14, 2023 6:54AM

Easier to sell your house and move to near CAC location and just carry it in for re-stickering. LOL

oreville · February 14, 2023 7:01AM

I even crossed a CAC stickered NGC slabbed coin to PCGS…saved all the paperwork, No problem getting CAC to re-sticker.

I would agree that red copper coins should be re-evaluated by CAC from the holder when out of the original slab.

oreville · February 14, 2023 7:02AM

It helps to drive it in to CAC. No shipping either way. It also helps to be a CAC collectors member.

pcgscacgold · February 14, 2023 7:21AM

I have noticed that some people only think their coins are worth collecting or their style of collecting is the only acceptable way. All others will be ridiculed for how they want to play in the Hobby.

Sad that many don't get the enjoyment out of hearing about how all people collect things. Feel free to collect slabs, coins, errors, tokens......

ricko · February 14, 2023 8:41AM

I am not a seeker of CAC beaned coins, but there is no doubt, they do command a premium. I would not buy a coin with the claim 'it used to be CAC'd' and pay the premium. Cheers, RickO

skier07 · February 14, 2023 9:02AM

@ChrisH821 said:
Whos cares if the sticker is actually on there, just look it up if you have to prove it. If someone refuses a coin just because the sticker isn't physically on the holder but can be verified I would consider them to be unreasonable in that case.

There is no guarantee the coin will resticker though in all likelihood it should. I wouldn’t buy such coin until it has the sticker or I’m getting a discount. The only exception would be if I knew the seller VERY VERY well and not some random.

JimTyler · February 14, 2023 9:20AM

@skier07 said:

@ChrisH821 said:
Whos cares if the sticker is actually on there, just look it up if you have to prove it. If someone refuses a coin just because the sticker isn't physically on the holder but can be verified I would consider them to be unreasonable in that case.

There is no guarantee the coin will resticker though in all likelihood it should. I wouldn’t buy such coin until it has the sticker or I’m getting a discount. The only exception would be if I knew the seller VERY VERY well and not some random.

It’s not being restickered it’s a REPLACEMENT sticker. 100% it’s getting its bean.

This thread (and many threads here) reminds me of that kids game where all the kids get in a line and someone whispers something to the first kid they whisper it to the next and by the time it get to the last kid it has nothing to do with the original whisper.

jmlanzaf · February 14, 2023 10:44AM

@JimTyler said:

@skier07 said:

@ChrisH821 said:
Whos cares if the sticker is actually on there, just look it up if you have to prove it. If someone refuses a coin just because the sticker isn't physically on the holder but can be verified I would consider them to be unreasonable in that case.

There is no guarantee the coin will resticker though in all likelihood it should. I wouldn’t buy such coin until it has the sticker or I’m getting a discount. The only exception would be if I knew the seller VERY VERY well and not some random.

It’s not being restickered it’s a REPLACEMENT sticker. 100% it’s getting its bean.

This thread (and many threads here) reminds me of that kids game where all the kids get in a line and someone whispers something to the first kid they whisper it to the next and by the time it get to the last kid it has nothing to do with the original whisper.

Telephone.

That said, without specifying the coin, it could have turned RB from red. Putty or PVC could have appeared. Coins do change in holders, especially the older holders.

CircCam · February 14, 2023 10:49AM

@JimTyler said:
You only buy CAC. A coin is reholdered was CAC now no bean but can be confirmed on CAC website. Would you still buy it ?

What would be the point of that? My sticker collection isn’t going to grow itself.

-The Last Kid

JimTyler · February 14, 2023 11:17AM

@CircCam said:

@JimTyler said:
You only buy CAC. A coin is reholdered was CAC now no bean but can be confirmed on CAC website. Would you still buy it ?

What would be the point of that? My sticker collection isn’t going to grow itself.

-The Last Kid

That’s funny makes no sense. You must have been at the end of the whisper line.

? For hard core CAC guys.

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