Possibly fake 1921 Peace Dollar?

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EZV
EZV Posts: 78 ✭✭
edited January 15, 2023 8:57PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Another one posted in my group. Another person me that has me stumped. It looks to have pitting on the surfaces and looks to be too low relief to be real. I’m thinking this is a high quality fake… if it is real, it has been polished to oblivion. Opinions?

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  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    i'm gonna lean towards fake partly because it is unlikely someone will just have what is probably valued these days at several thousand dollars just you know, layin' around?

    looks really off from the pics imo.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • EZV
    EZV Posts: 78 ✭✭
    edited January 15, 2023 9:09PM
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    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    looks really off from the pics imo.

    It does. I will wait for more opinions as you don’t seem entirely sure either

  • spyglassdesign
    spyglassdesign Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Her mouth, the hair behind her neck, and the tail feathers on the rev looks off to me... Hard to tell for sure by the photos tho.

    https://www.the4thcoin.com
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  • Che_Grapes
    Che_Grapes Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The pics aren’t great but it looks okay to me, it’s just been circulated or maybe cleaned… many 1921 peace were cleaned. This one is a poor strike - but that’s common for the 21.

    Here’s a few of mine:










  • Che_Grapes
    Che_Grapes Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I’ve had several raw 1921 peace dollar coins that I thought for sure would straight grade but came back cleaned:
    Here are two recent examples: sold them for about half what I paid - sigh


  • OldIndianNutKase
    OldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have four 21's and this looks nothing like them. The strike is very weak (common) but the pitting is especially concerning on the date numerals. It is either real and worthless or fake. Might sell for more as a certified counterfeit.

  • Che_Grapes
    Che_Grapes Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    I have four 21's and this looks nothing like them. The strike is very weak (common) but the pitting is especially concerning on the date numerals. It is either real and worthless or fake. Might sell for more as a certified counterfeit.

    Lol - I think it’s probably real but you’re right it’s not worth much. Maybe 40 to 60 dollars for one in that condition??

  • morgandollar1878
    morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It looks like a fake to me, can't say I recall ever seeing a 1921 Peace with a weak pitted date. The side shot of the rims also show a shallow relief.

    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • Che_Grapes
    Che_Grapes Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @morgandollar1878 said:
    It looks like a fake to me, can't say I recall ever seeing a 1921 Peace with a weak pitted date. The side shot of the rims also show a shallow relief.

    You’re right about the side shot - strange …

  • EZV
    EZV Posts: 78 ✭✭
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    Man… it’s half and half lol. I’ll have the member weigh the coin, would that help any?

  • TPRC
    TPRC Posts: 3,819 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I vote fake.

    Tom

  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Fake imho.

    Weight can help but isn't the tell-all. Sometimes they increase the diameter or thickness to compensate and make it weigh within tolerances.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • Portross
    Portross Posts: 93 ✭✭✭✭
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    I think it’s fake. The luster is odd, the rays above the forehead are pitted, and the letters in GOD (and elsewhere) are lumpy. On the reverse, the flat area across the eagle’s back does not look like a weak strike on a genuine 1921.

  • gumby1234
    gumby1234 Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks harshly cleaned

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I vote real but harshly cleaned which makes comments about using the surfaces as authentication tool speculative. These pieces are almost always weak in the centers, and a small amount of wear makes that worse.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looking closely, and comparing to certified Peace dollars, I think it is authentic, but cleaned and maybe polished.... Not one I would buy. Cheers, RickO

  • Project Numismatics
    Project Numismatics Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks real and cleaned. Recent eBay results suggest it’s worth about $120- $160.

  • nwcoast
    nwcoast Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think it’s authentic. Just weakly struck, beat up a bit and harshly cleaned.

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2023 8:41AM
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    there are a lot of times the fakes have a high unc look and i'm leaning towards that in this case (and if so, hence my comment), granted the pics and lighting used are not making sense to my eyes so i can't tell for sure. :)

    edited to add: i sure am glad there are groups/discords/tweeters groups that tag-team this stuff and not us. i couldn't do it all day from random quality images. my head would explode. in-hand isn't so bad cuz you could just whiz through most of em.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I believe it is a harshly cleaned, albeit genuine, example.

    Coin Photography

  • Coin Finder
    Coin Finder Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think its real but scrubbed clean. Whomever cleaned it thought it was real as they were trying to improve the coin to make it more valuable. But as we all know this ruins the coin and makes it less valuable..

    The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…

  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @EZV said:
    Man… it’s half and half lol. I’ll have the member weigh the coin, would that help any?

    if you would ask. if it comes back too far off, that is that. if not, back to square one.

    i blew up the images and put em beside some of the examples posted in this thread and i'm really leaning towards fake now as there are disconnected devices, beveling (in my eyes) and i'm going with the, "where there is smoke, there is fire."

    the overall strike seems too weak, even for a weakly struck authentic example. again, the lighting isn't helping but the signs are there imo.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • Coin Finder
    Coin Finder Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What does the coin weigh?

    The court jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings…

  • BuffaloIronTail
    BuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think it's genuine, with the typical (but more extreme) strike weakness. Definite cleaning, to the extent that the coin looks like it was given to a shoe shine boy and buffed to infinity.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think it's fake.
    Weak date, tiara rays fat and mushy.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • spyglassdesign
    spyglassdesign Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Run forest run! https://media.tenor.com/yKsXJik8JpoAAAAM/run-forest-gump.gif

    https://www.the4thcoin.com
    https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin

  • NickelMike
    NickelMike Posts: 195 ✭✭✭
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    Authentic, weak strike and cleaned a few times is my bet.

  • tincup
    tincup Posts: 5,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yeah... that curve on the forehead.... and the date.... and low overall relief.... says fake to me. At least not one that I would want to purchase.

    ----- kj
  • nwcoast
    nwcoast Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I’m changing my vote to fake after a more careful review and consideration of recent evidence presented by our very astute friend @dcarr. Thank you.

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • Erikb
    Erikb Posts: 80 ✭✭
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    It looks like the date was worn/altered?

  • World67
    World67 Posts: 13,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • Erikb
    Erikb Posts: 80 ✭✭
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    Just reading all the comments now and I see the difference on the forehead curvature. Etc. And even the mouth. It looks fake

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    thanks for the stock tip! i've got a market order for gamestop stock now

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  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't know if it's genuine but as noted above it's really not worth much even if it is genuine. AU detail at best and Improperly Cleaned.

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