Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one second he would be happy it would be a straight AU...2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one second he would be happy it would be a straight AU...2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for.
Perhaps you should download coinfacts
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one second he would be happy it would be a straight AU...2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for.
Perhaps you should download coinfacts
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
Rarely can you buy a coin today and sell for a profit tomorrow
Go buy a slabbed coin at a show and sell it for a profit in a week rarely happens
@Chevyrose - Did you think the coin would straight grade 63? Based on what you paid and your expectation to make money after grading fees, it appears that you did.
Again, if you really believe in the coin, my suggestion is to crack it out and resubmit to PCGS or NGC until you get a better opinion that you can live with. Keep tossing it in with your other submissions over the next year or so.
If you don’t believe in the coin, then why did you buy it? Did you miss something when purchasing that you now see?
We all make mistakes. I accidentally bought a coin at a show this year that will likely grade details if I send it in. This is why I don’t buy raw coins over a certain dollar threshold.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one second he would be happy it would be a straight AU...2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for.
Perhaps you should download coinfacts
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
Rarely can you buy a coin today and sell for a profit tomorrow
Go buy a slabbed coin at a show and sell it for a profit in a week rarely happens
I collect for the long term, 5 years minimum
It's not about flipping it. If the AU examples can be bought for $2000 (in a slab), why would you pay $2800 unless you thought it was better than a run-of-the-mill AU?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one second he would be happy it would be a straight AU...2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for.
Perhaps you should download coinfacts
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
Rarely can you buy a coin today and sell for a profit tomorrow
Go buy a slabbed coin at a show and sell it for a profit in a week rarely happens
I collect for the long term, 5 years minimum
I don't look at price guides. I look at how much I can buy a coin for. If you pay $500 more for a coin when you can get it cheaper, it takes even longer to make a profit.
You admitted you gambled and lost. You came on here as a victim of a deceptive and borderline criminal dealer. You wanted to out him for fiend that he is. You came on here to air your grievances, and it has backfired.
I've been doing this for over 30 years. I still miss things, I just sent an 1892 Columbian half to our host that came back cleaned. It was an older cleaning and it had toned over, but I missed it. I missed it. Its on me. This is on you.
Copper Coins are even tougher to detect cleaning. When I was 10, I bought what I thought was a beautifully toned indian cent. Turns out, it was "baked" to get the nice colors. I learned a lesson that day.
I absolutely think you should bring the coin back to the dealer and act like a gentleman. He might want to throw you a couple of bucks...or even buy the coin back. Or he might tell you to pound sand. Leave the bullhorn at Harbor Freight.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
He did say when he started this thread that he'd be happy with 55 or better. But he must have thought it had a shot at better.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I absolutely think you should bring the coin back to the dealer and act like a gentleman. He might want to throw you a couple of bucks...or even buy the coin back. Or he might tell you to pound sand. Leave the bullhorn at Harbor Freight.
@Chevyrose said:
That risk I was willing to take for $2800
In a previous post you indicated that you bought this coin from a dealer at a show for $1,000. I think most of us on this thread would agree that you gambled $1,000 on a coin that would be worth at least $2,000 if it just had an AU grade.
And you had the coin in hand when you purchased it at the show. Apparently it was not "obvious" that the coin had been cleaned. You may just want to crack and resubmit a few times to see if it is "obvious" to PCGS that it has been cleaned. Or crack it and submit it to NGC or ANACS for their informed opinion.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
Anyway, no harm in bringing the coin back to the dealer and showing the results of his submission. If indeed there was a 30 day return policy in place, this thread is a moot point.
I've seen lots of listings where the return policy is contingent on the coin still being in the original holder. I suppose that avoids people trying to get a higher grade and then returning if unsuccessful. It also avoids switched coins.
In this case, it seems the OP was looking for (willing to accept) a lower grade, but the cleaning was the complicating factor.
I don't buy for one second he would be happy it would be a straight AU...2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for.
Perhaps you should download coinfacts
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
Rarely can you buy a coin today and sell for a profit tomorrow
Go buy a slabbed coin at a show and sell it for a profit in a week rarely happens
I collect for the long term, 5 years minimum
It's not about flipping it. If the AU examples can be bought for $2000 (in a slab), why would you pay $2800 unless you thought it was better than a run-of-the-mill AU?
I thought I would break even at least. I thought I want being conservative at AU 55-58 hoping maybe there was a chance at better
And since this whole thread is getting dragged out we should probably debate if the coin is RB or BN
@Chevyrose said:
So ms63 rb valued at $5750 by pcgs
Au55 BN valued at $2600
Can back AU details cleaned
Yeah the dealer owes me
No banter will change my opinion
Dealer owes you nothing. By your own account, you paid AU money for an AU coin SIGHT SEEN, and you both missed the old cleaning. You even argued with the forum when they suggested the cleaning that you didn't see any in hand and maybe it was the pictures.
Why would anyone "owe" you anything for your own observational failure?
You've guaranteed that no one will do business with you in the BST. If you have an eBay ID, please provide it so we can complete our due diligence.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Welcome aboard. Oh, and don't be angry at the dealer. You're within your rights to point out how far his ability to grade is. A fair man would want to protect his good name I think.
And I initially saw the coin as AU 58. No problem.
This thread is exactly what this forum needed
Threads about eBay fees, people finding bicentennial Lincolns in circulation, junk $5 coins…..yawn
Glad to check this and get a laugh
Edit: has anyone in this thread taken lsd/philosybn
Have compassion on the passionate.
We are an odd lot, together. > @Chevyrose said:
That risk I was willing to take for $2800
Get a coin slabbed express $65, misc fees $25, shipping, $50
A cleaned coin is almost worthless
There is the problem
If it graded AU 55 I wouldn’t have thought another second about it
You don’t buy for one second I’d be happy with that
Looks like you don’t buy 1955/55 either
Even cleaned... authenticated. A couple grand is far from worthless. You have an awesome coin. It reminds me of how it came to be. Only in a pack of "Lucky Strikes".
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Have compassion on the passionate.
We are an odd lot, together. > @Chevyrose said:
That risk I was willing to take for $2800
Get a coin slabbed express $65, misc fees $25, shipping, $50
A cleaned coin is almost worthless
There is the problem
If it graded AU 55 I wouldn’t have thought another second about it
You don’t buy for one second I’d be happy with that
Looks like you don’t buy 1955/55 either
Even cleaned... authenticated. A couple grand is far from worthless. You have an awesome coin. It reminds me of how it came to be. Only in a pack of "Lucky Strikes".
@Chevyrose said:
No one ever bought a slabbed coin from eBay and made money
Change my mind
Well now you’re just asking for pushback 😂. Believe it or not, this was the first slabbed coin I ever bought on eBay. Ugly carbon spot and I threw it up on GC to move on.
@Chevyrose said:
No one ever bought a slabbed coin from eBay and made money
Change my mind
You could use your strategy on ebay. Gamble on a coin. If it doesn't work out, force the dealer to compensate you. See "SNAD". You're going to be rich.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Chevy
At this point I can't even understand why you bought this coin.
It had very little upside and lots of downside and you already owned a nice 64.
If you were testing your grading skills on red copper, you're very early in that game.
SMH
@streeter said:
Chevy
At this point I can't even understand why you bought this coin.
It had very little upside and lots of downside and you already owned a nice 64.
If you were testing your grading skills on red copper, you're very early in that game.
SMH
@Chevyrose said:
No one ever bought a slabbed coin from eBay and made money
Change my mind
You could use your strategy on ebay. Gamble on a coin. If it doesn't work out, force the dealer to compensate you. See "SNAD". You're going to be rich.
Good business strategy. Thanks for sharing your secrets your pride wouldn’t let you admit if the forum at least without a good catalyst
Comments
Eureka
Perhaps you should download coinfacts
That risk I was willing to take for $2800
Get a coin slabbed express $65, misc fees $25, shipping, $50
A cleaned coin is almost worthless
There is the problem
If it graded AU 55 I wouldn’t have thought another second about it
You don’t buy for one second I’d be happy with that
Looks like you don’t buy 1955/55 either
Op, I don't have a horse in this race and hope you find a solution, but I'm not sure how this screenshot enforces your point, it looks to me that it only confirms @EldoEsq 's statement that "2800 is well above what a PCGS certified straight AU example would go for". I see that sale prices of straight graded 58's range between 2000-2600, with the average around 2300, so I think its fair to say that 2800 is "well above" what they normally sell for. Straight graded 55's rarely have broken 2000, so I'm a little bit puzzled as to why you would have been ok with an AU grade after paying what you did.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Rarely can you buy a coin today and sell for a profit tomorrow
Go buy a slabbed coin at a show and sell it for a profit in a week rarely happens
I collect for the long term, 5 years minimum
@Chevyrose - Did you think the coin would straight grade 63? Based on what you paid and your expectation to make money after grading fees, it appears that you did.
Again, if you really believe in the coin, my suggestion is to crack it out and resubmit to PCGS or NGC until you get a better opinion that you can live with. Keep tossing it in with your other submissions over the next year or so.
If you don’t believe in the coin, then why did you buy it? Did you miss something when purchasing that you now see?
We all make mistakes. I accidentally bought a coin at a show this year that will likely grade details if I send it in. This is why I don’t buy raw coins over a certain dollar threshold.
It's not about flipping it. If the AU examples can be bought for $2000 (in a slab), why would you pay $2800 unless you thought it was better than a run-of-the-mill AU?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I don't look at price guides. I look at how much I can buy a coin for. If you pay $500 more for a coin when you can get it cheaper, it takes even longer to make a profit.
You admitted you gambled and lost. You came on here as a victim of a deceptive and borderline criminal dealer. You wanted to out him for fiend that he is. You came on here to air your grievances, and it has backfired.
I've been doing this for over 30 years. I still miss things, I just sent an 1892 Columbian half to our host that came back cleaned. It was an older cleaning and it had toned over, but I missed it. I missed it. Its on me. This is on you.
Copper Coins are even tougher to detect cleaning. When I was 10, I bought what I thought was a beautifully toned indian cent. Turns out, it was "baked" to get the nice colors. I learned a lesson that day.
I absolutely think you should bring the coin back to the dealer and act like a gentleman. He might want to throw you a couple of bucks...or even buy the coin back. Or he might tell you to pound sand. Leave the bullhorn at Harbor Freight.
He did say when he started this thread that he'd be happy with 55 or better. But he must have thought it had a shot at better.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
There's a PCGS AU58 on eBay right now for $2500, another sold earlier this week for $2100. An AU55 sold for $1900 earlier this month.
FWIW...
Well, someone has to pay full retail...
Edited to add: I sold an AU55 last year for 1800.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
👍
In a previous post you indicated that you bought this coin from a dealer at a show for $1,000. I think most of us on this thread would agree that you gambled $1,000 on a coin that would be worth at least $2,000 if it just had an AU grade.
And you had the coin in hand when you purchased it at the show. Apparently it was not "obvious" that the coin had been cleaned. You may just want to crack and resubmit a few times to see if it is "obvious" to PCGS that it has been cleaned. Or crack it and submit it to NGC or ANACS for their informed opinion.
Eureka
I thought I would break even at least. I thought I want being conservative at AU 55-58 hoping maybe there was a chance at better
And since this whole thread is getting dragged out we should probably debate if the coin is RB or BN
Came back BN
That changes all presumed prices
Dealer had the coin ms63 rb
Came back BN
So ms63 rb valued at $5750 by pcgs
Au55 BN valued at $2600
Can back AU details cleaned
Yeah the dealer owes me
No banter will change my opinion
It's not often anyone will be selling something that's worth $5750 for $2800.
What happened to your previous advice:
You're all over the place with your "values" and opinions.
No offense, but if I were a dealer I wouldn't want you as a customer.
Yeah that was directed at another member
My opinion remains unchanged
You are officially the stenographer of this thread congrats man I know it’s been a long road
Sometimes it's best to just stop digging.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Why? He pays $800 over market.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Dealer owes you nothing. By your own account, you paid AU money for an AU coin SIGHT SEEN, and you both missed the old cleaning. You even argued with the forum when they suggested the cleaning that you didn't see any in hand and maybe it was the pictures.
Why would anyone "owe" you anything for your own observational failure?
You've guaranteed that no one will do business with you in the BST. If you have an eBay ID, please provide it so we can complete our due diligence.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Could you post a coin from your collection ?
Gee, there's a surprise
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
To prove what?
I'm currently asking $1800. But I'll gladly break it out and you can have it for $2600
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
PCGS is not the arbiter of pricing.
That negotiation is/was between you and dealer. If grade doesn't fit, you must resubmit.
I bought a raw specimen and it came back smoothed. Sold it for 2grand with problem noted on holder.
You're not out a grand. You're in the money. You're holding the keys. No ?
And as far as that goes: know your dealer. It's better than not knowing of him.
"Lessons learned are like bridges burned, you only need to cross them but once ". ( D. Fogleberg)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Welcome aboard. Oh, and don't be angry at the dealer. You're within your rights to point out how far his ability to grade is. A fair man would want to protect his good name I think.
And I initially saw the coin as AU 58. No problem.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Is that on a gold planchet?
Ok yes I’ll take it
No eBay for me
A wise man once said buy nothing from eBay
For $2600, I'll even clean it for you.
You might want to reconsider.
Ebay would actually force the return on the poor dealer. No bullhorn required.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Lots of people (I suppose some of them might be wise) recommend not buying cleaned coins.
This thread is exactly what this forum needed
Threads about eBay fees, people finding bicentennial Lincolns in circulation, junk $5 coins…..yawn
Glad to check this and get a laugh
Edit: has anyone in this thread taken lsd/philosybn
Asking for a friend
And MasonG is still checking the thread regularly ladies and gentlemen
Yeah let’s do that deal setting up an account now
Please crackout and clean per our agreement
He stops at train wrecks also
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Sounds dangerous
Have compassion on the passionate.
We are an odd lot, together. > @Chevyrose said:
Even cleaned... authenticated. A couple grand is far from worthless. You have an awesome coin. It reminds me of how it came to be. Only in a pack of "Lucky Strikes".
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
As are you. But that's different, right?
I agree!
Just a general announcement. Glad you’re here buddy.
Mason have you taken LSD before?
Might work wonders for you
I’d rather lose $1000 then buy one, worn, common date Morgan from ebay
No one ever bought a slabbed coin from eBay and made money
Change my mind
Well now you’re just asking for pushback 😂. Believe it or not, this was the first slabbed coin I ever bought on eBay. Ugly carbon spot and I threw it up on GC to move on.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Paging @ErrorsOnCoins
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
You could use your strategy on ebay. Gamble on a coin. If it doesn't work out, force the dealer to compensate you. See "SNAD". You're going to be rich.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
You have proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that it is not possible to "change your mind."
Chevy
At this point I can't even understand why you bought this coin.
It had very little upside and lots of downside and you already owned a nice 64.
If you were testing your grading skills on red copper, you're very early in that game.
SMH
I’m only 31 I got time
Thanks for your imput. Very enlightening
Good business strategy. Thanks for sharing your secrets your pride wouldn’t let you admit if the forum at least without a good catalyst