Well worn Sacagawea

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  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 6:54AM
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    @JBK said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kurisu said:
    A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
    And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
    This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...

    I vote counterfeit.

    What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?

    That would be a good indicator, although I have seem one with a painted strip around the edge to simulate the appearance of clad.

    I tried searching the ICG population report to see if any have been graded. I got negative results. I'm not quit sure if I'm manipulating correctly through this tool. Maybe you guys can try.

    https://www.icgcoin.com/population-search/

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kurisu said:
    A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
    And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
    This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...

    I vote counterfeit.

    What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?

    Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.

    Found it :smiley:

    Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
    Those creepy eyes lol!
    By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
    It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
    Edge shows layers.

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • bigmountainlion
    bigmountainlion Posts: 290 ✭✭✭
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    They are widely used in Ecuador.

  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Excellent thread!

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Kurisu said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kurisu said:
    A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
    And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
    This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...

    I vote counterfeit.

    What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?

    Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.

    Found it :smiley:

    Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
    Those creepy eyes lol!
    By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
    It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
    Edge shows layers.

    Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 7:44PM
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    Oops, never mind... delete lol

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • may
    may Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looking at this, I just realized that Sacagawea had her son with her! I thought it was a bun. :D

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Kurisu said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kurisu said:
    A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
    And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
    This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...

    I vote counterfeit.

    What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?

    Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.

    Found it :smiley:

    Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
    Those creepy eyes lol!
    By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
    It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
    Edge shows layers.

    Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?

    No, it's supposed to have layering.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 8:45PM
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Kurisu said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kurisu said:
    A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
    And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
    This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...

    I vote counterfeit.

    What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?

    Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.

    Found it :smiley:

    Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
    Those creepy eyes lol!
    By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
    It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
    Edge shows layers.

    Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?

    No, it's supposed to have layering.

    Okay, I'm a little slow. What is supposed to have the layering? The legit coin or the counterfeit? All these beat-up 2000-P's & D's I've seen have this layering. What identifying marks on the coin indicates it as a counterfeit?

    More of a copper look and solid copper edge, not a clad layer?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Kurisu said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kurisu said:
    A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
    And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
    This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...

    I vote counterfeit.

    What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?

    Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.

    Found it :smiley:

    Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
    Those creepy eyes lol!
    By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
    It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
    Edge shows layers.

    Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?

    No, it's supposed to have layering.

    Okay, I'm a little slow. What is supposed to have the layering? The legit coin or the counterfeit? All these beat-up 2000-P's & D's I've seen have this layering. What identifying marks on the coin indicates it as a counterfeit?

    More of a copper look and solid copper edge, not a clad layer?

    Small dollars info... http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/add014.html#:~:text=The counterfeit coin's diameter, thickness,more of a copper color.

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • 3stars
    3stars Posts: 2,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What I find interesting is how strong the mintmark remains on these well worn examples

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Did I just find one of the counterfeits?!

    It's got full copper look with some of that red/rust color patina.
    Doesn't seem to have layers from the edge.
    I'm tempted to drop it in the xylenes for a while or give the edge a little buffing to see if the layers actually show or not.

    None of the information on the counterfeit 2000 D Sacs have any type of diagnostics or list any markers to look for. The counterfeits are known to match the correct weight and size of authentic Sacagaweas...sooooo....?

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks genuine, lightly corroded.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Options

    It just looks stained.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    Looks genuine, lightly corroded.

    @OAKSTAR said:
    It just looks stained.

    Well back in the return bag it goes :blush: Thanks

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2023 7:58AM
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    @Kurisu- This one reminded me a little of yours.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Ted 1
    Ted 1 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭
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    @OAKSTAR said:
    We're almost there. Won't be long now! 😂 🤣

    I'd buy that, if for sale

    California Nationals &
    Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (POOR-XF)

    --- SUCCESSFUL BST TRANSACTIONS ---
    braddick, Omegaraptor, JWP, EagleScout2017, OAKSTAR, Twobitcollector, boxerdad, OKCC, Fancycashcom, JimW, MWallace, Tookybandit, TeacherCollector, jeffas1974, mainejoe, kansasman, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Soldi, Histman, CurrenSee, jclovescoins, Outhaul, Timbuk3, LEMONHEAD_PENNY, daverickey, Maxcrusha, RedSeals, johnnyb
  • TwoSides2aCoin
    TwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
    Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Ted 1 said:

    @OAKSTAR said:
    We're almost there. Won't be long now! 😂 🤣

    I'd buy that, if for sale

    It's about the lowest one I've found so far. I'm still looking. If nothing else shows up by the end of the year, I'll be submitting it.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • dollarfan
    dollarfan Posts: 320 ✭✭✭
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    @OAKSTAR said:
    @Kurisu- This one reminded me a little of yours.

    Wow Abe looks like he went on a bender

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
    Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.

    From reports I have heard the large majority of the two-coin packs opened have been the pattern reverse. I would say probably better than 80%.

    Of course, the number of two-coin packs opened by the TPG's has been only a tiny fractions of the 5,500 two-coin packs distributed. I still think that a large percentage of the two-coin packs were simply opened and spend as money. A dollar was still worth something in the year 2,000, especially to a kid opening a box of cereal for breakfast.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • DCW
    DCW Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It is an amazing story and discovery. One day, I hope to own a Cheerios dollar. I think it's a significant coin!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • jedm
    jedm Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway & @TwoSides2aCoin One thing about the Cheerios dollars that's always intrigued me is, when these were distributed and then as conjectured, spent by a kid after having breakfast, do you think they may have made their way to Ecuador?

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Using the detector on the cereal boxes was very resourceful. As a nam vet, I have been "distracted" at times but I do have my moments of brilliance. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • pocketpiececommems
    pocketpiececommems Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I dislike the date and mint mark on the edge. Period !!!

    Pocketpiececommemoratives

    Lafayette Grading Set
  • Ted 1
    Ted 1 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    I would like to see the grading set examples in this range.

    I'm getting there.

    California Nationals &
    Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (POOR-XF)

    --- SUCCESSFUL BST TRANSACTIONS ---
    braddick, Omegaraptor, JWP, EagleScout2017, OAKSTAR, Twobitcollector, boxerdad, OKCC, Fancycashcom, JimW, MWallace, Tookybandit, TeacherCollector, jeffas1974, mainejoe, kansasman, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Soldi, Histman, CurrenSee, jclovescoins, Outhaul, Timbuk3, LEMONHEAD_PENNY, daverickey, Maxcrusha, RedSeals, johnnyb
  • Ted 1
    Ted 1 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
    Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.

    From reports I have heard the large majority of the two-coin packs opened have been the pattern reverse. I would say probably better than 80%.

    Of course, the number of two-coin packs opened by the TPG's has been only a tiny fractions of the 5,500 two-coin packs distributed. I still think that a large percentage of the two-coin packs were simply opened and spend as money. A dollar was still worth something in the year 2,000, especially to a kid opening a box of cereal for breakfast.

    I agree. I think most were definitely spent as soon as they were located. Soda machines, or maybe used to buy a pack of baseball cards by the young finder.

    California Nationals &
    Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (POOR-XF)

    --- SUCCESSFUL BST TRANSACTIONS ---
    braddick, Omegaraptor, JWP, EagleScout2017, OAKSTAR, Twobitcollector, boxerdad, OKCC, Fancycashcom, JimW, MWallace, Tookybandit, TeacherCollector, jeffas1974, mainejoe, kansasman, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Soldi, Histman, CurrenSee, jclovescoins, Outhaul, Timbuk3, LEMONHEAD_PENNY, daverickey, Maxcrusha, RedSeals, johnnyb
  • Moldnut
    Moldnut Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭
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    These are commonly traded in
    El Salvador. I was shocked to see as many as I did and brought back a pocket full about a month ago.

    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Posts: 2,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    From a small batch of 10 customer rolls I picked up yesterday.

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • OAKSTAR
    OAKSTAR Posts: 8,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2023 2:43PM
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    @Zoins said:
    Wow, there's no low ball set for Sacagawea dollars:

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/low-ball-sets/139

    @Ted1 could very well be the first.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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