@Kurisu said:
A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...
I vote counterfeit.
What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?
That would be a good indicator, although I have seem one with a painted strip around the edge to simulate the appearance of clad.
I tried searching the ICG population report to see if any have been graded. I got negative results. I'm not quit sure if I'm manipulating correctly through this tool. Maybe you guys can try.
@Kurisu said:
A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...
I vote counterfeit.
What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?
Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.
Found it
Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
Those creepy eyes lol!
By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
Edge shows layers.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
@Kurisu said:
A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...
I vote counterfeit.
What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?
Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.
Found it
Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
Those creepy eyes lol!
By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
Edge shows layers.
Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
@Kurisu said:
A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...
I vote counterfeit.
What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?
Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.
Found it
Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
Those creepy eyes lol!
By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
Edge shows layers.
Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?
@Kurisu said:
A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...
I vote counterfeit.
What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?
Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.
Found it
Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
Those creepy eyes lol!
By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
Edge shows layers.
Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?
No, it's supposed to have layering.
Okay, I'm a little slow. What is supposed to have the layering? The legit coin or the counterfeit? All these beat-up 2000-P's & D's I've seen have this layering. What identifying marks on the coin indicates it as a counterfeit?
More of a copper look and solid copper edge, not a clad layer?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@Kurisu said:
A 2000 D here in Denver from a roll last night.
And I agree...I go through quite a few Sacs and don't see them looking like this often at all.
This one looks darn weak underneath the wear to begin with...
I vote counterfeit.
What's the definitive tell tail sign of a counterfeit? The missing three-layer sandwich material that the genuine pieces have?
Probably. I was mostly going by the squishy look of the devices. I really can't be sure from the photo.
Found it
Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
Those creepy eyes lol!
By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
Edge shows layers.
Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?
No, it's supposed to have layering.
Okay, I'm a little slow. What is supposed to have the layering? The legit coin or the counterfeit? All these beat-up 2000-P's & D's I've seen have this layering. What identifying marks on the coin indicates it as a counterfeit?
More of a copper look and solid copper edge, not a clad layer?
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
It's got full copper look with some of that red/rust color patina.
Doesn't seem to have layers from the edge.
I'm tempted to drop it in the xylenes for a while or give the edge a little buffing to see if the layers actually show or not.
None of the information on the counterfeit 2000 D Sacs have any type of diagnostics or list any markers to look for. The counterfeits are known to match the correct weight and size of authentic Sacagaweas...sooooo....?
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.
From reports I have heard the large majority of the two-coin packs opened have been the pattern reverse. I would say probably better than 80%.
Of course, the number of two-coin packs opened by the TPG's has been only a tiny fractions of the 5,500 two-coin packs distributed. I still think that a large percentage of the two-coin packs were simply opened and spend as money. A dollar was still worth something in the year 2,000, especially to a kid opening a box of cereal for breakfast.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway & @TwoSides2aCoin One thing about the Cheerios dollars that's always intrigued me is, when these were distributed and then as conjectured, spent by a kid after having breakfast, do you think they may have made their way to Ecuador?
Here's a little value added to the Cheerios dollar conversation. Remember this article/edition @CaptHenway? You were referenced in it.
I met the guy this article was written about, about a year ago. He came to the house to buy some speared eagles. The guy was a real character! A bit on the eccentric side... Coveralls, stogie, gray ponytail down to his butt! 😂 🤣 A leftover from the 60's and a Vietnam Vet.
I thought he was a nut! When we started talking coins, this guy knew his stuff and spoke all the numismatic terms and language.
Then he started telling me this story about the Cheerios dollars. I'm thinking: NO WAY!! This guy is blowing smoke up my butt and BS'ing!!
About 4 days later, a copy of this article shows up in the mail!! Damn!! You just can't judge a book by it's cover!!
Over the months, we have kept in touch. I asked him how he actually found the dollars. He said he would go to grocery stores with a hand held metal detector (the kind of wand you see used, going thru airport security) and check the cereal boxes!! Can you believe that?? I absolutely believe it now!! 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Using the detector on the cereal boxes was very resourceful. As a nam vet, I have been "distracted" at times but I do have my moments of brilliance. Peace Roy
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.
From reports I have heard the large majority of the two-coin packs opened have been the pattern reverse. I would say probably better than 80%.
Of course, the number of two-coin packs opened by the TPG's has been only a tiny fractions of the 5,500 two-coin packs distributed. I still think that a large percentage of the two-coin packs were simply opened and spend as money. A dollar was still worth something in the year 2,000, especially to a kid opening a box of cereal for breakfast.
I agree. I think most were definitely spent as soon as they were located. Soda machines, or maybe used to buy a pack of baseball cards by the young finder.
CA Nationals & Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (PO01-XF45)
From a small batch of 10 customer rolls I picked up yesterday.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Comments
I tried searching the ICG population report to see if any have been graded. I got negative results. I'm not quit sure if I'm manipulating correctly through this tool. Maybe you guys can try.
https://www.icgcoin.com/population-search/
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Found it
Took some fresh snapshots under my too bright light just now lol.
Those creepy eyes lol!
By the way, she is genuinely my favorite portrait of all time on a coin.
It's the only area with any detail besides near the rim.
Edge shows layers.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
They are widely used in Ecuador.
Excellent thread!
Okay, just to clarify. Are you saying this clad edge layering indicates it's a counterfeit?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Oops, never mind... delete lol
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Looking at this, I just realized that Sacagawea had her son with her! I thought it was a bun.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
No, it's supposed to have layering.
Okay, I'm a little slow. What is supposed to have the layering? The legit coin or the counterfeit? All these beat-up 2000-P's & D's I've seen have this layering. What identifying marks on the coin indicates it as a counterfeit?
More of a copper look and solid copper edge, not a clad layer?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Small dollars info... http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/add014.html#:~:text=The counterfeit coin's diameter, thickness,more of a copper color.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
What I find interesting is how strong the mintmark remains on these well worn examples
Did I just find one of the counterfeits?!
It's got full copper look with some of that red/rust color patina.
Doesn't seem to have layers from the edge.
I'm tempted to drop it in the xylenes for a while or give the edge a little buffing to see if the layers actually show or not.
None of the information on the counterfeit 2000 D Sacs have any type of diagnostics or list any markers to look for. The counterfeits are known to match the correct weight and size of authentic Sacagaweas...sooooo....?
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
Looks genuine, lightly corroded.
It just looks stained.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Well back in the return bag it goes
Thanks
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
@Kurisu- This one reminded me a little of yours.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
I'd buy that, if for sale
Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (PO01-XF45)
--- SUCCESSFUL BST TRANSACTIONS ---
braddick, Omegaraptor, JWP, EagleScout2017, OAKSTAR, Twobitcollector, boxerdad, OKCC, Fancycashcom, JimW, MWallace, Tookybandit, TeacherCollector, jeffas1974, mainejoe, kansasman, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Soldi, Histman, CurrenSee, jclovescoins, Outhaul, Timbuk3, LEMONHEAD_PENNY, daverickey, Maxcrusha, RedSeals
As to finding a pattern, I think the chances are slimmer than the publication of 5500 minted would lead us to believe. I think 500 of them might be patterns. The second shipment ( batch) sent to General Mills had 5000 of the modified version. Of course there's no proof. There never seems to be upon discovery , Capt.
Now, I just think this due to the pop. reports from both houses and the lack of new finds. Still .... 23 years on.
It's about the lowest one I've found so far. I'm still looking. If nothing else shows up by the end of the year, I'll be submitting it.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Wow Abe looks like he went on a bender
From reports I have heard the large majority of the two-coin packs opened have been the pattern reverse. I would say probably better than 80%.
Of course, the number of two-coin packs opened by the TPG's has been only a tiny fractions of the 5,500 two-coin packs distributed. I still think that a large percentage of the two-coin packs were simply opened and spend as money. A dollar was still worth something in the year 2,000, especially to a kid opening a box of cereal for breakfast.
It is an amazing story and discovery. One day, I hope to own a Cheerios dollar. I think it's a significant coin!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@CaptHenway & @TwoSides2aCoin One thing about the Cheerios dollars that's always intrigued me is, when these were distributed and then as conjectured, spent by a kid after having breakfast, do you think they may have made their way to Ecuador?
Here's a little value added to the Cheerios dollar conversation. Remember this article/edition @CaptHenway? You were referenced in it.
I met the guy this article was written about, about a year ago. He came to the house to buy some speared eagles. The guy was a real character! A bit on the eccentric side... Coveralls, stogie, gray ponytail down to his butt! 😂 🤣 A leftover from the 60's and a Vietnam Vet.
I thought he was a nut! When we started talking coins, this guy knew his stuff and spoke all the numismatic terms and language.
Then he started telling me this story about the Cheerios dollars. I'm thinking: NO WAY!! This guy is blowing smoke up my butt and BS'ing!!
About 4 days later, a copy of this article shows up in the mail!! Damn!! You just can't judge a book by it's cover!!
Over the months, we have kept in touch. I asked him how he actually found the dollars. He said he would go to grocery stores with a hand held metal detector (the kind of wand you see used, going thru airport security) and check the cereal boxes!! Can you believe that?? I absolutely believe it now!! 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Using the detector on the cereal boxes was very resourceful. As a nam vet, I have been "distracted" at times but I do have my moments of brilliance. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I dislike the date and mint mark on the edge. Period !!!
Lafayette Grading Set
I'm getting there.
Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (PO01-XF45)
--- SUCCESSFUL BST TRANSACTIONS ---
braddick, Omegaraptor, JWP, EagleScout2017, OAKSTAR, Twobitcollector, boxerdad, OKCC, Fancycashcom, JimW, MWallace, Tookybandit, TeacherCollector, jeffas1974, mainejoe, kansasman, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Soldi, Histman, CurrenSee, jclovescoins, Outhaul, Timbuk3, LEMONHEAD_PENNY, daverickey, Maxcrusha, RedSeals
I agree. I think most were definitely spent as soon as they were located. Soda machines, or maybe used to buy a pack of baseball cards by the young finder.
Lowball Sacagawea Dollars (PO01-XF45)
--- SUCCESSFUL BST TRANSACTIONS ---
braddick, Omegaraptor, JWP, EagleScout2017, OAKSTAR, Twobitcollector, boxerdad, OKCC, Fancycashcom, JimW, MWallace, Tookybandit, TeacherCollector, jeffas1974, mainejoe, kansasman, Cent1225, SurfinxHI, Soldi, Histman, CurrenSee, jclovescoins, Outhaul, Timbuk3, LEMONHEAD_PENNY, daverickey, Maxcrusha, RedSeals
These are commonly traded in
El Salvador. I was shocked to see as many as I did and brought back a pocket full about a month ago.
EAC 6024
From a small batch of 10 customer rolls I picked up yesterday.
Coins are Neato!
"If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright
@Ted1 could very well be the first.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )