Fake coins and pulling of the cert number.

Batman23 · October 30, 2022 6:11AM

I see this fake looking half on eBay. I run the PCGS cert number look-up and see that it is no longer listed. No mention of fakes, just that they can't find the cert number. On one side I like that they pulled the cert information for the coin. On the other side I dislike that the old auction appearances are missing for this coin. With a link to the previous auction photos one can compare and see straight up this is a different coin. My personal notes for this coin and PCGS holder is that it is supposed to be a WB-10 die pair and sporting a shiny little CAC sticker.

Here is a picture of the current listing... Looks questionable at first glance, too blurry to make much detail, lacking a CAC sticker.
https://ebay.com/itm/304680905564?hash=item46f065ab5c:g:musAAOSwFKBjXaxa&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoI3oX9%2BA4p4gcwdwd73diK%2BsYLj82hzAVU9GqWQRZv%2BguInTWciX91YTRVYEbeaoCTv9oE0qqHjiY9rTLDElvcAUvnNgmK3o2Tt3zR86qOpHer5Hq3zWL0cjGMxOR5gHvCiDuh3isnUhf4%2FvT8ABI6ih21wbNHn1OgCL2SI0%2BWbdQR1k9g06hY93tAwlZLjXowIIkUWaDNGnjDhOVF2J9Y4%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR47Cro6FYQ&autorefresh=true

burfle23 · October 30, 2022 8:20AM

Here's mine; cert was compromised and I reported it in this forum:

Prior cert:

burfle23 · October 30, 2022 10:02AM

And this one sold in August:

At least with a nuked cert a buyer has a chance...

lilolme · October 30, 2022 10:26AM

I might be in the minority but I hope pcgs is not 'nuking' cert numbers because a fake has been reported. This would mean that the owner of the real coin now has a coin without a working cert number. Hopefully if a cert number is 'nuked' due to a fake, that the owner is contacted (if they can be determined) first and agrees to the change. In some cases I can see where it would not be.

Also cert numbers are nuked when a coin is regraded or other submission request or a crack out and cert turned in. So a 'nuked' cert number is not necessarily about a fake.

davewesen · October 30, 2022 10:43AM

How do you know the number was nuked and coin not regraded differently?

Batman23 · October 30, 2022 11:41AM

@davewesen said:
How do you know the number was nuked and coin not regraded differently?

No idea. Maybe you are right. I was working under the assumption that there is still a legitimate coin out there with this cert.

burfle23 · October 30, 2022 1:20PM

Yes, maybe sent in for an update, regrade, etc as @davewesen noted.

burfle23 · October 30, 2022 1:23PM

This is how they handled the cert of another I reported:

ricko · October 30, 2022 1:38PM

There is only so much that can be done in these circumstances, and it appears PCGS will do that much.... Tough situation. Cheers, RickO

Batman23 · October 30, 2022 2:06PM

@burfle23 said:
This is how they handled the cert of another I reported:

I like this, a great notice of warning to those looking to buy this certified coin. Maybe when the owner of the legitimate coin sees the warning they will have PCGS reholder it with a new number and they can change the listing as not found. But for the known fake cert numbers I like the warning saying to be cautious.

lilolme · October 30, 2022 3:04PM

@Batman23 said:

@burfle23 said:
This is how they handled the cert of another I reported:

I like this, a great notice of warning to those looking to buy this certified coin. Maybe when the owner of the legitimate coin sees the warning they will have PCGS reholder it with a new number and they can change the listing as not found. But for the known fake cert numbers I like the warning saying to be cautious.

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I don't like it. I have seen a fake of a coin I have. Mine is in a registry. It is a little pricey (at least to me) and in a slightly older holder and cac approved. To suddenly have my coin deactivated would be basically crap. I don't want a new holder. I don't want the risk to have to ship it to pcgs (even at their expense) and then ship it back. Then have to ship it to CAC and risk and ship it back. I would say to keep the cert number active but the notice could still appear. Why should the owner of the coin have to suddenly have a deactivated cert problem to deal with?

Batman23 · October 30, 2022 3:36PM

@lilolme said:

@Batman23 said:

@burfle23 said:
This is how they handled the cert of another I reported:

I like this, a great notice of warning to those looking to buy this certified coin. Maybe when the owner of the legitimate coin sees the warning they will have PCGS reholder it with a new number and they can change the listing as not found. But for the known fake cert numbers I like the warning saying to be cautious.

.
.
I don't like it. I have seen a fake of a coin I have. Mine is in a registry. It is a little pricey (at least to me) and in a slightly older holder and cac approved. To suddenly have my coin deactivated would be basically crap. I don't want a new holder. I don't want the risk to have to ship it to pcgs (even at their expense) and then ship it back. Then have to ship it to CAC and risk and ship it back. I would say to keep the cert number active but the notice could still appear. Why should the owner of the coin have to suddenly have a deactivated cert problem to deal with?

The part I liked was the warning. I am in agreement with you that I would like to see the cert number remain active and a warning placed within the cert profile. I am very partial to my old green holdered coins so I completely understand your position on any forced reholder idea.

burfle23 · October 30, 2022 3:46PM

NGC does this:

lilolme · October 30, 2022 4:22PM

Another thing that PCGS could do and this on the warning (and maybe for many others) is that they know when the coin was graded and the type of holder. So PCGS could then provide a link to the correct museum of holders 'holder' so that a comparison with the potential fake slab could be made. Here is one potential link:

https://www.pcgs.com/holdermuseum/Gen4.2

burfle23 · October 31, 2022 5:19PM

younique · October 31, 2022 5:52PM

Certainly a perplexing situation for both buyers and sellers and TPG's as well. Much work to be done on this issue.

BStrauss3 · November 1, 2022 2:56AM

@Batman23 said:
I like this, a great notice of warning to those looking to buy this certified coin. Maybe when the owner of the legitimate coin sees the warning they will have PCGS reholder it with a new number and they can change the listing as not found. But for the known fake cert numbers I like the warning saying to be cautious.

Once they reholder the legit coin, the warning should change to say it is a KNOWN counterfeit and when the legit coin was reholdered. After all, once the coin is reholdered, no legit coin with that number exists!

Fake coins and pulling of the cert number.

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